Question - the bonus for orange companions/mounts - does this apply to the main one only, or the 5 in the stable/active? Because active companions don't have a bonus going from purple to orange, but according to these numbers I'll get more Item level from them.
^This, it only makes sense to have one Legendary companion add to the IL/GS, maybe a little more if it's active?
All in all, M11b is looking pretty damn good, for me at least.
Now just add a Legendary mount to the Zen-store so I can throw some (more) money at you
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Mount Active 100 Mount Passive (Pur) 250 Mount Passive (Orng) 500 Insignia (Green) 40 Insignia (Blue) 50 Insignia (Purple) 60
This appears to be confusing people a fair bit.
There is no bonus for which mounts your insignias are slotted into.
Mount "active" is the combat power. If you have no orange mount, no points for you.
Mount "passive" is the equipment power. Depending what you've got slotted, you may have 250 or 500 points from this, or nothing at all if you don't have an epic mount. (Slight discrepancy assuming the system cannot recognize a "legacy" epic.)
I'll be a dissenting voice and say that I think keeping the insignia values somewhat close together across qualities makes sense. A huge amount of the power from insignias is the bonuses themselves, and the bonuses don't work worse if you're only using greens.
Generally speaking, I think the system has a lot of potential. It can't be perfect, but it is trying to account for factors that were left out of the old gear score values too (even though the numbers look close), because it's not just measuring your stats.
Thx for clearing that active/passive confusion, 60*8.8 = 528 while the real stat conversion = 367 so it makes sense and i agree that a big part of the insignias potential is in the bonus, often even more that the double and these values could use a bit more boost, but it's pretty good already.
About guild boons, queues may have been balanced without them but inspect button isn't broken yet xD so there will be a lot of selection.
0
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
Right then how is a player supposed to know why he does not meet the min requirements ( on this graph the dev posted to enter dungeons )then if they(sources of power) are both cumulative as far as item level ( regular boons gear enchantments etc ) yet ... guild boons are excluded for the sake of entry requirements yet added to the final item level tally.... we essentially need 2 item level values then displayed
its like sorry you are high enough gear score with guild boons to enter but not enough without it ( so it stops people in low guild from feeling alienated .. but also stops people in higher level guild from joining that have the boons to make up for power (that they also grinded and payed for ) but not the gear to enter
(also a whole bunch of people alts will now fail to make the Q lol time to pay up ( very alt unfriendly the opposite of what the devs want )
so essentially open your wallet to get in the meet the min gear score cause your guild boons that you grinded and worked so hard so wont carry you as far as dungeon entry requirements (cause it is not fair to lower guilds blah blah) ... but we will still add them to your item level anyways ...
oh and we dont want you switching to higher level established guilds to avoid having to pay or gear up either (to make entry requirements ) is what Im reading between the lines (also under the guise of protecting lower level guilds)
hmmmm essentially teasing the player 2 values must be shown the one on the curve to enter the dungeon and the one that is total item level with guild boons it is very confusing care to comment
perhaps dungeons need bronze silver and gold difficulties /scaling accounting for guild boons and power ranged 1-6 6-14 and 14 20 lets say and add this to the level to get in redo the graphs bro no low level guild will be aliened cause there will be a lower level Q and your items levels scaling will be accurate
you are trying to set difficulty level for a dungeon /scaling to one item number when a guild can have such a range of guild power 1- 20 adding thousands in stats ... now you have worse item level problem on your hands not better under the guise of worrying about low level guilds
you have the data what is the average guild level in the game not 0 not 1 not 2 . you need to balance based on average guild levels as well not discount them to make it "fair" when it is not
you guys created this item level disparity with all these high level guild boons Players want to be able to run the same area scaled just one dungeons entry level setting wont do it
are you a solo player no problem potions a temp buffs should be added to item level as well to meet requirments to get in just like it is with the gear and potions you need for everfrost resistance to make it in the newer dungeons and skirmish
Post edited by kalina311 on
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bigredbrentMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 155Arc User
Giving people with passive legendary companions more IL? Seriously? *Facepalm* - Prokiller
Well, it doesn't matter if it is the summoned or not as long as you have just one...the issue is that you can artificially boost your IL by having multiple legendary companions, but that will not improve your stats in any way.
....which is why people are suggesing letting epic and legendary have the same value, + a single bonus for having at least one legendary.
Or, actually increase the active bonus for legendary companions...
Utility slots should still count towards item level, they just should not count as much towards your item level as offense and defense slots do. The aim of this change is to make it so anything that improves your character now counts towards your item level, utility slots are an improvement and should count for something. I would sugest making it so utility slot enchantments only provide half the item level that the same enchantments in offense and defense slots do.
I suggest that they only count toward one tenth as much item level. They are almost completely worthless for combat situations. I would be satisfied if they did not count toward item level at all.
Castle Never requirement CN Dungeon should have it's IL required increased to 9000 (2500) as that is about the level a very well skilled tank is able to tank Orcus. Too often groups grind to a halt at Orcus because the tank can't cope.
Utility slots item level I think the amount of bonus enchaments in Utility slots give should drasticaly be lowered. The enchantments in these slots add utility to the player but no functional output increase towards the group.
Castle Never requirement CN Dungeon should have it's IL required increased to 9000 (2500) as that is about the level a very well skilled tank is able to tank Orcus. Too often groups grind to a halt at Orcus because the tank can't cope.
Utility slots item level I think the amount of bonus enchaments in Utility slots give should drasticaly be lowered. The enchantments in these slots add utility to the player but no functional output increase towards the group.
You don't actually NEEEEED a tank for orcus... so raising the IL entry req is silly.
“Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
No need to change IL (based on what is on preview now) because many newbies don't have insignia bonuses or don't have the 5 (i pug a lot and run acts so thrust me, this is true), with these changes, they will want to get those bonus and will have easy acess to them (mounts on ah are pretty cheap), all devs have to do is put some more bright arrows and shinny indicators and they will follow.
Castle Never requirement CN Dungeon should have it's IL required increased to 9000 (2500) as that is about the level a very well skilled tank is able to tank Orcus. Too often groups grind to a halt at Orcus because the tank can't cope.
Utility slots item level I think the amount of bonus enchaments in Utility slots give should drasticaly be lowered. The enchantments in these slots add utility to the player but no functional output increase towards the group.
You don't actually NEEEEED a tank for orcus... so raising the IL entry req is silly.
The CN requirement states IL 2000, 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps.
Show me the 2200 IL group with max rank 7 bondings that is able to complete CN. Even if you manage to get that group together, what will the result be when we are talking about a true 2200 group (not 4k players on 2200 toons)?
I suggested 2500 since GFs seemingly need to be around 2450 when in a major guild to be able to tank Orcus.
And sure I've seen 2200's tank Orcus when they have 4K support with them but that's not the point. IL entry means that the group should be viable when the entire group is at that level; that simply isn't the case with the 2000 IL requirement CN has now.
Edit: My suggestion comes from running 100's of CNs through normal queues and having seen tanks fail and get booted over and over. Heh, there are even high level tanks/players out there that do nothing but CN rescue missions and abandon fresh CN queues. The data here is my personal experience; that could be flawed but ARC should be able to data mine the boot ratio versus class, current item level and location in the dungeon and data mine dungeon success rate with tanks It would be a nice improvement if the Item Level requirement for Private queues was removed (just require the level i.e. 68 or 70, to prevent powerleveling). This would allow guilds/alliances to run a private queue on their own terms outside of IL requirements set by the game for regular queues. The game allready allows this partially through removing the group makeup requirement.
Castle Never requirement CN Dungeon should have it's IL required increased to 9000 (2500) as that is about the level a very well skilled tank is able to tank Orcus. Too often groups grind to a halt at Orcus because the tank can't cope.
Utility slots item level I think the amount of bonus enchaments in Utility slots give should drasticaly be lowered. The enchantments in these slots add utility to the player but no functional output increase towards the group.
You don't actually NEEEEED a tank for orcus... so raising the IL entry req is silly.
CN normal entry requirement is currently 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps.
I've ran 100's of normals and seen many a failure where the tank was below 2450; especially when the rest of the support cast is below or around that level too.
My personal experience is a flawed data set however. Data mining should proof or disproof my statement that it needs raised (kick ratio tank versus other classes versus item level versus location in dungeon and also tank plus support IL versus CN succes ratio). The fact that there are highlevel tanks that specialise in CN rescue missions and even abandon normal runs in favor of getting a rescue enforces the need to raise the IL for CN imho.
It would be great if IL requirements would be removed from private queues all together; in such a way that there will only be level requirements. This would allow guilds to run all content with all their members in a private setting.
Utility slots should count. A more geared, more player can slow a dungeon down more than a less geared player who has 5 dark 12s in utility.
Should all the other utilities count? Probably, they help fuel progression
Making them not count will slow down character development
But the tendency to happen is the opposite, that is just a rare can. And why will it slow down character development? They will be worth to the player over long time (take the example of QM's, opening 300 bags in a double enchants event is a mini gold mine, players may be more tempted to upgrade the rest (non utility slots) to get in dungeons but that is a matter of choice, in that case players should be informed better about those enchants long time benefits, not making it count to a system that aims at measuring the capacity of a player.
Bonding stones pass over stats, so I think they should be worth 1.X more IL than other enchanments, where X is the % of stats they send, so a r12 would be 1.95 times the value of say a r12 radiant, unless you want to chop it down a bit because they have a timer, but you get the idea.
I think the IL requirements for entry to content are fine, although they are and always have been a little low IMO. I don't see a need to increase them as the minimum IL characters can be carried by the rest of the group from time to time.
Utility slots should count. A more geared, more player can slow a dungeon down more than a less geared player who has 5 dark 12s in utility.
Should all the other utilities count? Probably, they help fuel progression
Making them not count will slow down character development
They add no functional benefit to the group, as such they should not be included or have a minimal impact.
It is more likely to happen that a low level 70 is using R12's in his utility slots in order to get maximum benefit in drops towards his character progression. This would mean he would be useless to the group but meet the IL requirements set, which is something we as a community want to get away from.
A functional level indicator towards that characters current group potential should not include utility slots.
Utility slots should count. A more geared, more player can slow a dungeon down more than a less geared player who has 5 dark 12s in utility.
Should all the other utilities count? Probably, they help fuel progression
Making them not count will slow down character development
They add no functional benefit to the group, as such they should not be included or have a minimal impact.
It is more likely to happen that a low level 70 is using R12's in his utility slots in order to get maximum benefit in drops towards his character progression. This would mean he would be useless to the group but meet the IL requirements set, which is something we as a community want to get away from.
A functional level indicator towards that characters current group potential should not include utility slots.
is an indomitable runestone rank 12 of any use then?
Utility enchantments either need to have the same IL as any other enchantment, or a proportional decrease in cost to upgrade (both in RP and materials). Since it is extremely unlikely that they would be able to separate out enchants in a reasonable way for the utility slot IL rebalance, they must stay the same IL as they would be were you to slot them in an offense/defense slot. Frankly suggesting they be worth less IL when they cost the same to upgrade and in many cases can be committed to multiple slots is silly.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited March 2017
Keep in mind that "item level" or any other designation you might want to call it is meant to be a rough view of how much effort/investment the player has put into that character, but it's not a precise measuring stick for optimization. As such, there are going to be places where the system is a bit blind or stupid, because it assigns equal value to boons good and bad (which still beats no value or value only for the stat-granting ones), and it can be fooled by using higher value items that don't add to efficacy.
You cannot expect something like this to be a substitute for actually knowing the other players you group with.
The redesign is intended to take into account some significant character investments that were not reflected in the previous number, not to be a replacement for thinking.
I can honestly say that I don't feel that these changes are going to be a positive change on the game. If anything it will only create more elitism and bs where we already have an abundance. Things such as boons and upgraded insignias have always been the icing on the cake not the cake itself, and not mandatory to access or complete content.
Imo this seems like a bad idea and that the time could could have better spent working on other long standing issues.
But that is just my 2c
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Utility slots should count. A more geared, more player can slow a dungeon down more than a less geared player who has 5 dark 12s in utility.
Should all the other utilities count? Probably, they help fuel progression
Making them not count will slow down character development
They add no functional benefit to the group, as such they should not be included or have a minimal impact.
It is more likely to happen that a low level 70 is using R12's in his utility slots in order to get maximum benefit in drops towards his character progression. This would mean he would be useless to the group but meet the IL requirements set, which is something we as a community want to get away from.
A functional level indicator towards that characters current group potential should not include utility slots.
is an indomitable runestone rank 12 of any use then?
If you are a faithfull DC DO with acess to overloads:
But only single target and very restricted situations and very well buffed companion, but you will be loosing personal stats for other things that not damage. And ignore the 50% additional damage, although the damage does apply after all buffs in the game it will only be from 31 to 39% of total companion damage. All this already considering that the maximum effectiveness you will get from a companion attacking a Boss Brute lvl 73 will be around 45%(assuming nothing is debuffing the target already, basically, 60% DR and almost no RI from you companion because the ifluence from equipment on your companion will be very low to your companion but runestones will be much more significative, for example a Eldricht in a offence slot would increase the effectiveness of your companion by 9% i think or something around that while if you have 700 arm pen on your companion equipment it will be way less).
The changes are nice but won't make much of a difference IMO. If anything this just kinda smells like a cash grab. You have 2 players at 4383 who are content with their status..after these changes one is at 15000 the other is 16000. The 15000 ilevel player is exposed for having inflated his ilevel by gearing his character but lacks in his comps, insignias, boons or what have you. Player then rushes to the zen store to purchase what he needs to get back into the Eite Club.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I don't think it's wrong to capitalize on players with that kind of mentality. They're not buying anything exclusive, they just want it NOW. Which bankrolls everyone else.
I'm going to have to bestir myself to finish my neglected EE campaigns, ohwell.
I might find it in me to get more annoyed about my unwillingness to upgrade companions with the current pricing schemes, but probably I'll just continue to live with it.
I dont know what about legendary companions but in preview i have ALL 5 companions legendary but only for summon companion give me 400 il...for others 4 only 100 il per companion, same in epic.
Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE May the Torm of Understanding guide us!
Question - the bonus for orange companions/mounts - does this apply to the main one only, or the 5 in the stable/active? Because active companions don't have a bonus going from purple to orange, but according to these numbers I'll get more Item level from them.
Let's be realistic - Gear Score never left at least not from the Player perspective. People looked at that first thing in Dungeons and many never bothered to look at the stats... sadly.
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
"One other thing worth mentioning: the new queue values in the above chart were calculated WITHOUT counting guild boons."
ARE GUILD BOONS GONNA BE PART OF ITEM LEVEL OR NOT ??OR A SEPARATE STAT ?
Queue values. They balanced the queue values against players without any guild boons.
Right then how is a player supposed to know why he does not meet the min requirements ( on this graph the dev posted to enter dungeons )then if they(sources of power) are both cumulative as far as item level ( regular boons gear enchantments etc ) yet ... guild boons are excluded for the sake of entry requirements yet added to the final item level tally.... we essentially need 2 item level values then displayed
its like sorry you are high enough gear score with guild boons to enter but not enough without it ( so it stops people in low guild from feeling alienated .. but also stops people in higher level guild from joining that have the boons to make up for power (that they also grinded and payed for ) but not the gear to enter
(also a whole bunch of people alts will now fail to make the Q lol time to pay up ( very alt unfriendly the opposite of what the devs want )
so essentially open your wallet to get in the meet the min gear score cause your guild boons that you grinded and worked so hard so wont carry you as far as dungeon entry requirements (cause it is not fair to lower guilds blah blah) ... but we will still add them to your item level anyways ...
oh and we dont want you switching to higher level established guilds to avoid having to pay or gear up either (to make entry requirements ) is what Im reading between the lines (also under the guise of protecting lower level guilds)
hmmmm essentially teasing the player 2 values must be shown the one on the curve to enter the dungeon and the one that is total item level with guild boons it is very confusing care to comment
perhaps dungeons need bronze silver and gold difficulties /scaling accounting for guild boons and power ranged 1-6 6-14 and 14 20 lets say and add this to the level to get in redo the graphs bro no low level guild will be aliened cause there will be a lower level Q and your items levels scaling will be accurate
you are trying to set difficulty level for a dungeon /scaling to one item number when a guild can have such a range of guild power 1- 20 adding thousands in stats ... now you have worse item level problem on your hands not better under the guise of worrying about low level guilds
you have the data what is the average guild level in the game not 0 not 1 not 2 . you need to balance based on average guild levels as well not discount them to make it "fair" when it is not
you guys created this item level disparity with all these high level guild boons Players want to be able to run the same area scaled just one dungeons entry level setting wont do it
are you a solo player no problem potions a temp buffs should be added to item level as well to meet requirments to get in just like it is with the gear and potions you need for everfrost resistance to make it in the newer dungeons and skirmish
Geez... You keep getting it all wrong. They excluded guild boons while determining how much IL is required, so that the entry requirement is reasonably achievable even if you ain't in a guild. This is a design process. It DOES NOT affect your IL sources.
*sigh* I felt it was clearly explained already, dunno how to make it clearer...
Hmm... Had they included guild boons to determine required IL, the required IL would have been like 11.5k for FBI instead of 10.6k.
This does NOT mean your guild boons don't count when you're queuing. If you're getting 9.1k from gear, and 1.5k from guild boons, you CAN enter FBI.
They did a good thing. You're unnecessarily screaming cause of misunderstanding.
Question - the bonus for orange companions/mounts - does this apply to the main one only, or the 5 in the stable/active? Because active companions don't have a bonus going from purple to orange, but according to these numbers I'll get more Item level from them.
Let's be realistic - Gear Score never left at least not from the Player perspective. People looked at that first thing in Dungeons and many never bothered to look at the stats... sadly.
He just means the name xP
We had GS before we got IL. And that GS was in the range of where the proposed IL numbers are.
1
frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
Aww HAMSTER... I edited to add a tag and the whole post got deleted when I saved -_-
**** Vanilla!!! x(
1
frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
Right then how is a player supposed to know why he does not meet the min requirements ( on this graph the dev posted to enter dungeons )then if they(sources of power) are both cumulative as far as item level ( regular boons gear enchantments etc ) yet ... guild boons are excluded for the sake of entry requirements yet added to the final item level tally.... we essentially need 2 item level values then displayed
its like sorry you are high enough gear score with guild boons to enter but not enough without it ( so it stops people in low guild from feeling alienated .. but also stops people in higher level guild from joining that have the boons to make up for power (that they also grinded and payed for ) but not the gear to enter
(also a whole bunch of people alts will now fail to make the Q lol time to pay up ( very alt unfriendly the opposite of what the devs want )
so essentially open your wallet to get in the meet the min gear score cause your guild boons that you grinded and worked so hard so wont carry you as far as dungeon entry requirements (cause it is not fair to lower guilds blah blah) ... but we will still add them to your item level anyways ...
oh and we dont want you switching to higher level established guilds to avoid having to pay or gear up either (to make entry requirements ) is what Im reading between the lines (also under the guise of protecting lower level guilds)
hmmmm essentially teasing the player 2 values must be shown the one on the curve to enter the dungeon and the one that is total item level with guild boons it is very confusing care to comment
perhaps dungeons need bronze silver and gold difficulties /scaling accounting for guild boons and power ranged 1-6 6-14 and 14 20 lets say and add this to the level to get in redo the graphs bro no low level guild will be aliened cause there will be a lower level Q and your items levels scaling will be accurate
you are trying to set difficulty level for a dungeon /scaling to one item number when a guild can have such a range of guild power 1- 20 adding thousands in stats ... now you have worse item level problem on your hands not better under the guise of worrying about low level guilds
you have the data what is the average guild level in the game not 0 not 1 not 2 . you need to balance based on average guild levels as well not discount them to make it "fair" when it is not
you guys created this item level disparity with all these high level guild boons Players want to be able to run the same area scaled just one dungeons entry level setting wont do it
are you a solo player no problem potions a temp buffs should be added to item level as well to meet requirments to get in just like it is with the gear and potions you need for everfrost resistance to make it in the newer dungeons and skirmish
Geez @kalina311... You keep getting it all wrong. The guild boons excluded was just a design part, and has nothing to do with the players and IL sources. Excluding the guild boons helped get the average entry of 10.6k IL instead of something like 11.5k. This DOES NOT mean the guild boons are excluded when YOU are queuing.
It was already pretty clearly explained. Hmmm... Let's say you have 9.1k IL from gear, etc and 1.5k IL from guild boons, you CAN do FBI. All they meant was that those numbers were not used while determining the averages.
All this rage and passages over a misunderstanding.
Castle Never requirement CN Dungeon should have it's IL required increased to 9000 (2500) as that is about the level a very well skilled tank is able to tank Orcus. Too often groups grind to a halt at Orcus because the tank can't cope.
Utility slots item level I think the amount of bonus enchaments in Utility slots give should drasticaly be lowered. The enchantments in these slots add utility to the player but no functional output increase towards the group.
You don't actually NEEEEED a tank for orcus... so raising the IL entry req is silly.
CN normal entry requirement is currently 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps.
I've ran 100's of normals and seen many a failure where the tank was below 2450; especially when the rest of the support cast is below or around that level too.
My personal experience is a flawed data set however. Data mining should proof or disproof my statement that it needs raised (kick ratio tank versus other classes versus item level versus location in dungeon and also tank plus support IL versus CN succes ratio). The fact that there are highlevel tanks that specialise in CN rescue missions and even abandon normal runs in favor of getting a rescue enforces the need to raise the IL for CN imho.
It would be great if IL requirements would be removed from private queues all together; in such a way that there will only be level requirements. This would allow guilds to run all content with all their members in a private setting.
While in general, I would like them, to remove min IL from private que, in reality, I think, that I would hate it. As it is, I had some unpleasant discussions with friends, guild and alliance members hitting min IL and asking me or other ppl to carry them in MSVH, FBI etc..
If you would remove min IL from private que the entitlement many players feel would range free. BIS players can solo/ duo CN. I dont want to discuss with ppl, who hit lvl 70, why I dont want to waste a hour carrying them in CN or to put everyone on ignore pestering me to help them unlock MSVH in a 'quick' FBI run with their 2k IL chars.
I can understand, that ppl like the easy mode and some struggle to complete dungeons or gear up. I understand, that the removement of min IL can be useful in some situations. I know, that I have 6-12 requests a day, to run FBI or MSVH or to 'help out' with my tank or DC in CN. I think, that this number would double or triple with the removement of min IL while the success rate of these runs would fall.
Dont get me wrong. I dont mind helping out. I dont demand a 4k/ 16k group, to run a dungeon. Most of the times running VT ELOL etc. I que solo. I do help out, when I feel like it and I can spare the time. I joined MSVH runs with friends and guild members, knowing that we would fail, bc the group was to weak, bc they asked me to join. BUT a total removement of min IL in private ques would put a stress test on guild and alliances I dont want to happen.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
5
santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
Agreed. Even toons meeting just the minimum requirements are generally too weak for those dungeons.
After all the math, I can say that maximum TIL is over 17k.
I like the change. It's lacking, but better than what we have now. I think that bondings deserve double or even tripple item level though. They give us 30% of our total stats at least, they're not just normal enchants that give i.e. 700 power... which isn't even 2% more damage. Orange companions don't do a thing to you if they're not active. So you should either give them a new bonus effect as passive (please don't) or count them as purple companions... that way item level would drop about 400 to be above 16,5k
Why? Because I am a 3508 TiL GWF and on preview I have a whole 13700 TiL. Let me get two more epic companion gear pieces and you can make it ~14500+ in the end, of the week I will get three more boons for another +100.
However... Am I the only one that thinks that pvp boons aren't really worth it? Because 6 boons each giving item level seems like way too much if we bear in mind how useless they are The whole pvp campaign is outdated like crazy...
And once again: utility slots are there to help those who need just a little bit more to get into somewhere. I.e.a dungeon and even though +30—80 il seems like a lot right now — they will barely do a thing to til after the change. And even if we do remove it, then why not remove il from guild boons too? Especially pvp and utility.
Talking about mounts, I agree with the above that insignias' item lvls are pretty fine. However the problem here is that their given bonuses should count towards item level too. For example a bonus out of 3 would provide +50 or something like that? A dual insignia bonus would give +25 and just like that because those bonuses do affect your powers!
Comments
All in all, M11b is looking pretty damn good, for me at least.
Now just add a Legendary mount to the Zen-store so I can throw some (more) money at you
Thx for clearing that active/passive confusion, 60*8.8 = 528 while the real stat conversion = 367 so it makes sense and i agree that a big part of the insignias potential is in the bonus, often even more that the double and these values could use a bit more boost, but it's pretty good already.
About guild boons, queues may have been balanced without them but inspect button isn't broken yet xD so there will be a lot of selection.
@rgutscheradev
Right then how is a player supposed to know why he does not meet the min requirements ( on this graph the dev posted to enter dungeons )then if they(sources of power) are both cumulative as far as item level ( regular boons gear enchantments etc ) yet ... guild boons are excluded for the sake of entry requirements yet added to the final item level tally.... we essentially need 2 item level values then displayed
its like sorry you are high enough gear score with guild boons to enter but not enough without it ( so it stops people in low guild from feeling alienated .. but also stops people in higher level guild from joining that have the boons to make up for power (that they also grinded and payed for ) but not the gear to enter
(also a whole bunch of people alts will now fail to make the Q lol time to pay up ( very alt unfriendly the opposite of what the devs want )
so essentially open your wallet to get in the meet the min gear score cause your guild boons that you grinded and worked so hard so wont carry you as far as dungeon entry requirements (cause it is not fair to lower guilds blah blah) ... but we will still add them to your item level anyways ...
oh and we dont want you switching to higher level established guilds to avoid having to pay or gear up either (to make entry requirements ) is what Im reading between the lines (also under the guise of protecting lower level guilds)
hmmmm essentially teasing the player 2 values must be shown the one on the curve to enter the dungeon and the one that is total item level with guild boons it is very confusing care to comment
perhaps dungeons need bronze silver and gold difficulties /scaling accounting for guild boons and power ranged 1-6 6-14 and 14 20 lets say and add this to the level to get in redo the graphs bro
no low level guild will be aliened cause there will be a lower level Q and your items levels scaling will be accurate
you are trying to set difficulty level for a dungeon /scaling to one item number when a guild can have such a range of guild power 1- 20 adding thousands in stats ... now you have worse item level problem on your hands not better under the guise of worrying about low level guilds
you have the data what is the average guild level in the game not 0 not 1 not 2 .
you need to balance based on average guild levels as well not discount them to make it "fair" when it is not
@rgutscheradev
you guys created this item level disparity with all these high level guild boons
Players want to be able to run the same area scaled
just one dungeons entry level setting wont do it
are you a solo player no problem potions a temp buffs should be added to item level as well to meet requirments to get in just like it is with the gear and potions you need for everfrost resistance to make it in the newer dungeons and skirmish
CN Dungeon should have it's IL required increased to 9000 (2500) as that is about the level a very well skilled tank is able to tank Orcus. Too often groups grind to a halt at Orcus because the tank can't cope.
Utility slots item level
I think the amount of bonus enchaments in Utility slots give should drasticaly be lowered. The enchantments in these slots add utility to the player but no functional output increase towards the group.
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
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Show me the 2200 IL group with max rank 7 bondings that is able to complete CN. Even if you manage to get that group together, what will the result be when we are talking about a true 2200 group (not 4k players on 2200 toons)?
I suggested 2500 since GFs seemingly need to be around 2450 when in a major guild to be able to tank Orcus.
And sure I've seen 2200's tank Orcus when they have 4K support with them but that's not the point. IL entry means that the group should be viable when the entire group is at that level; that simply isn't the case with the 2000 IL requirement CN has now.
Edit: My suggestion comes from running 100's of CNs through normal queues and having seen tanks fail and get booted over and over. Heh, there are even high level tanks/players out there that do nothing but CN rescue missions and abandon fresh CN queues. The data here is my personal experience; that could be flawed but ARC should be able to data mine the boot ratio versus class, current item level and location in the dungeon and data mine dungeon success rate with tanks It would be a nice improvement if the Item Level requirement for Private queues was removed (just require the level i.e. 68 or 70, to prevent powerleveling). This would allow guilds/alliances to run a private queue on their own terms outside of IL requirements set by the game for regular queues. The game allready allows this partially through removing the group makeup requirement.
I've ran 100's of normals and seen many a failure where the tank was below 2450; especially when the rest of the support cast is below or around that level too.
My personal experience is a flawed data set however. Data mining should proof or disproof my statement that it needs raised (kick ratio tank versus other classes versus item level versus location in dungeon and also tank plus support IL versus CN succes ratio). The fact that there are highlevel tanks that specialise in CN rescue missions and even abandon normal runs in favor of getting a rescue enforces the need to raise the IL for CN imho.
It would be great if IL requirements would be removed from private queues all together; in such a way that there will only be level requirements. This would allow guilds to run all content with all their members in a private setting.
http://imgur.com/0MusPzb
http://imgur.com/qxgTgdy
Guild boons include: Power Bonus (level 3), Lifesteal Bonus (level 1) and XP bonus (level 1).
Should all the other utilities count? Probably, they help fuel progression
Making them not count will slow down character development
I think the IL requirements for entry to content are fine, although they are and always have been a little low IMO. I don't see a need to increase them as the minimum IL characters can be carried by the rest of the group from time to time.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
It is more likely to happen that a low level 70 is using R12's in his utility slots in order to get maximum benefit in drops towards his character progression. This would mean he would be useless to the group but meet the IL requirements set, which is something we as a community want to get away from.
A functional level indicator towards that characters current group potential should not include utility slots.
You cannot expect something like this to be a substitute for actually knowing the other players you group with.
The redesign is intended to take into account some significant character investments that were not reflected in the previous number, not to be a replacement for thinking.
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Things such as boons and upgraded insignias have always been the icing on the cake not the cake itself, and not mandatory to access or complete content.
Imo this seems like a bad idea and that the time could could have better spent working on other long standing issues.
But that is just my 2c
But only single target and very restricted situations and very well buffed companion, but you will be loosing personal stats for other things that not damage. And ignore the 50% additional damage, although the damage does apply after all buffs in the game it will only be from 31 to 39% of total companion damage. All this already considering that the maximum effectiveness you will get from a companion attacking a Boss Brute lvl 73 will be around 45%(assuming nothing is debuffing the target already, basically, 60% DR and almost no RI from you companion because the ifluence from equipment on your companion will be very low to your companion but runestones will be much more significative, for example a Eldricht in a offence slot would increase the effectiveness of your companion by 9% i think or something around that while if you have 700 arm pen on your companion equipment it will be way less).
I'm going to have to bestir myself to finish my neglected EE campaigns, ohwell.
I might find it in me to get more annoyed about my unwillingness to upgrade companions with the current pricing schemes, but probably I'll just continue to live with it.
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Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
*sigh* I felt it was clearly explained already, dunno how to make it clearer...
Hmm... Had they included guild boons to determine required IL, the required IL would have been like 11.5k for FBI instead of 10.6k.
This does NOT mean your guild boons don't count when you're queuing. If you're getting 9.1k from gear, and 1.5k from guild boons, you CAN enter FBI.
They did a good thing. You're unnecessarily screaming cause of misunderstanding.
EDIT: @kalina311
We had GS before we got IL. And that GS was in the range of where the proposed IL numbers are.
**** Vanilla!!! x(
It was already pretty clearly explained. Hmmm... Let's say you have 9.1k IL from gear, etc and 1.5k IL from guild boons, you CAN do FBI. All they meant was that those numbers were not used while determining the averages.
All this rage and passages over a misunderstanding.
If you would remove min IL from private que the entitlement many players feel would range free. BIS players can solo/ duo CN. I dont want to discuss with ppl, who hit lvl 70, why I dont want to waste a hour carrying them in CN or to put everyone on ignore pestering me to help them unlock MSVH in a 'quick' FBI run with their 2k IL chars.
I can understand, that ppl like the easy mode and some struggle to complete dungeons or gear up. I understand, that the removement of min IL can be useful in some situations. I know, that I have 6-12 requests a day, to run FBI or MSVH or to 'help out' with my tank or DC in CN. I think, that this number would double or triple with the removement of min IL while the success rate of these runs would fall.
Dont get me wrong. I dont mind helping out. I dont demand a 4k/ 16k group, to run a dungeon. Most of the times running VT ELOL etc. I que solo. I do help out, when I feel like it and I can spare the time. I joined MSVH runs with friends and guild members, knowing that we would fail, bc the group was to weak, bc they asked me to join. BUT a total removement of min IL in private ques would put a stress test on guild and alliances I dont want to happen.
I like the change. It's lacking, but better than what we have now.
I think that bondings deserve double or even tripple item level though. They give us 30% of our total stats at least, they're not just normal enchants that give i.e. 700 power... which isn't even 2% more damage.
Orange companions don't do a thing to you if they're not active. So you should either give them a new bonus effect as passive (please don't) or count them as purple companions... that way item level would drop about 400 to be above 16,5k
Why? Because I am a 3508 TiL GWF and on preview I have a whole 13700 TiL. Let me get two more epic companion gear pieces and you can make it ~14500+ in the end, of the week I will get three more boons for another +100.
However... Am I the only one that thinks that pvp boons aren't really worth it? Because 6 boons each giving item level seems like way too much if we bear in mind how useless they are
The whole pvp campaign is outdated like crazy...
And once again: utility slots are there to help those who need just a little bit more to get into somewhere. I.e.a dungeon and even though +30—80 il seems like a lot right now — they will barely do a thing to til after the change.
And even if we do remove it, then why not remove il from guild boons too? Especially pvp and utility.
Talking about mounts, I agree with the above that insignias' item lvls are pretty fine. However the problem here is that their given bonuses should count towards item level too. For example a bonus out of 3 would provide +50 or something like that? A dual insignia bonus would give +25 and just like that because those bonuses do affect your powers!