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Should PvP Solo queue be made permanent?

zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
edited March 2017 in PvP Discussion
Straightforward vote.

Should PvP Solo queue be made permanent? 85 votes

Yes
92% 79 votes
No
7% 6 votes
Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

«1

Comments

  • josiahiyonjosiahiyon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 396 Arc User
    Yes, per the following steps outlined at the link below:

    (1) same tenacity for all. Off gear, now as environmental stat
    (2) Return of diminishing return curves for pvp only. Including HP and Power
    (3) Bring back NCL. Seasonal resets, permanent.
    (4) Bring back solo q. Permanent feature.

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1229238/pvp-suggestions-keep-it-simple-stupid-solutions/p1
    Pvpbysynergy.png
    Iyon the Dark
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.
  • elrondknightelrondknight Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    ayroux said:

    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.

    And since the above changes will take months to implement, and then many more months if not years to get right, why can we not have a solo queue in the mean time?
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User

    ayroux said:

    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.

    And since the above changes will take months to implement, and then many more months if not years to get right, why can we not have a solo queue in the mean time?
    How would it take months? That makes no sense...

    All the work was done in @josiahiyon post here:http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1229238/pvp-suggestions-keep-it-simple-stupid-solutions

    Its very easy.

    1) Remove Tenacity on gear. Increase each characters base from 10% to 35% tenacity for everyone.
    2) Implement a diminishing returns curve on stats for PVP only that is different than PVE. The formulas and work are ALL done for the DEVs.



  • elrondknightelrondknight Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    ayroux said:

    ayroux said:

    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.

    And since the above changes will take months to implement, and then many more months if not years to get right, why can we not have a solo queue in the mean time?
    How would it take months? That makes no sense...

    All the work was done in @josiahiyon post here:http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1229238/pvp-suggestions-keep-it-simple-stupid-solutions

    Its very easy.

    1) Remove Tenacity on gear. Increase each characters base from 10% to 35% tenacity for everyone.
    2) Implement a diminishing returns curve on stats for PVP only that is different than PVE. The formulas and work are ALL done for the DEVs.



    The devs have been trying to fix class balance for over a year now. There is a list of bugs that are unfixed going back to mod 5 or 6. Every time a new mod drops Foundry breaks and it takes weeks to get online. I think, if you expect any "simple" fix to be enacted quickly, you are ignoring the past precedents. However, this is all really besides the point. In order to enact ANY changes, they have to go thru the corporate approval process. That could take many, many... many meetings. Also, since this idea is coming from a player, i think the probability of it being picked up, whole, and embraced by the devs unlikely. It is more likely that they will view it as peeing in their lemonade. Solo queue, on the other hand, is something that the devs have already been working on. They have the foundation already in place. They have invested the time in it, and I think that is more likely to be implemented than any other proposed solutions to the PvP problem. So, if you wouldn't mind, answer the question... Why can't we have a solo queue until the devs finally decide to get down to business and really devote some time to fixing PvP?

  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User

    ayroux said:

    ayroux said:

    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.

    And since the above changes will take months to implement, and then many more months if not years to get right, why can we not have a solo queue in the mean time?
    How would it take months? That makes no sense...

    All the work was done in @josiahiyon post here:http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1229238/pvp-suggestions-keep-it-simple-stupid-solutions

    Its very easy.

    1) Remove Tenacity on gear. Increase each characters base from 10% to 35% tenacity for everyone.
    2) Implement a diminishing returns curve on stats for PVP only that is different than PVE. The formulas and work are ALL done for the DEVs.



    The devs have been trying to fix class balance for over a year now. There is a list of bugs that are unfixed going back to mod 5 or 6. Every time a new mod drops Foundry breaks and it takes weeks to get online. I think, if you expect any "simple" fix to be enacted quickly, you are ignoring the past precedents. However, this is all really besides the point. In order to enact ANY changes, they have to go thru the corporate approval process. That could take many, many... many meetings. Also, since this idea is coming from a player, i think the probability of it being picked up, whole, and embraced by the devs unlikely. It is more likely that they will view it as peeing in their lemonade. Solo queue, on the other hand, is something that the devs have already been working on. They have the foundation already in place. They have invested the time in it, and I think that is more likely to be implemented than any other proposed solutions to the PvP problem. So, if you wouldn't mind, answer the question... Why can't we have a solo queue until the devs finally decide to get down to business and really devote some time to fixing PvP?

    LOL Class balance will NEVER be "balanced" that is a pipedream. Look at games that dont even have "gear" like Overwatch or its brother "Paladins" and they have a hard time balancing classes. Neverwinter will NEVER have balanced classes.

    You even further make my point that PVP needs a MAJOR change. Everymodule that I have played, new "PVP breaking" things come online.

    Going back to the VERY beginning. Tenebrous Enchants through module 1. With module 2 came the infamous "Emblem" Artifact. Then you have things like module 3 - I forget the artifact but it allowed you to 1 shot someone... Then you had boons like Avalanche that was multi-proccing etc etc.

    Each module, each release of new artifacts, boons, etc. ALL breaks PVP. It doesnt really impact PVE that much. None of those things were broken in PVP.

    This is exactly the problem. They need to separate out these game modes because right now, allowing 100% of the PVE stuff in PVP breaks it.

    A PRIME example is companions. SH Siege and OW PVP - one of the issues that plagues those are companions.

    what they NEED to do is remove all boons/mounts/companions/insignias/etc from PVP> Frankly, I dont see them doing that though so the NEXT best thing is to diminish the impact of all of those things via what that link stated:

    - remove tenacity on gear
    - Diminishing return curve for PVP only.
  • disposablehero#5903 disposablehero Member Posts: 128 Arc User
    The obvious solution to this problem is to grind out the gear with a team of your own. But I get the feeling my thoughts on this are in the minority.
    Dungeon Interior Coordinator for WAR-BOUND. <i class="Italic"></i>

    PS4 characters:
    Brie Liadon, Shotgun Wizard
    Disposable Hero, Kidney removal technician
    Valorous Cake, Armored pastry defender
    Ginger Christ needs no introductions
  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User

    The obvious solution to this problem is to grind out the gear with a team of your own. But I get the feeling my thoughts on this are in the minority.

    People can't be asked to actually work for their stuff.. CMON MAN. Seriously?!? Oh and all that money and time you spent gearing up your character for PVP already should just not count and be forced to use a cookie cutter build and gear. I swear communism is taking over every facet of the world.

    Some people like their individual builds and special gem loadouts. And we should be able to use whatever we have at our disposal to win the game. You know as long it isnt cheating of course.

    But on the the OP's topic.. Yes there should always be a solo que. But with a few stipulations...
    1. Make it so you can't que sync it by not telling you up at the top if you have "Waiting in que" or "MAP" so you wont know if its about to pop and have no warning when it pulls you in.
    2. Make it so it doesn't favor guildmates, friends or alliance people to put them on your team.

    Hey look I just fixed the whole issue with solo que right there wow that was easy.

    Class balance and other issues are a completely different issue then the OP's post and are pointless to talk about here. If you are against solo queing you just wanna fight pugs with your 5 man but don't wanna admit it.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    If you Sync solo Q you could just as well end up on the opposite team ... even if you can see the Q pop
  • lonewolfmk1lonewolfmk1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    ayroux said:

    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.

    While your suggestions are good, facing full premades ist still a problem, the soloque could easily solve. I have got a pretty much BIS PVP char (GF) and can go toe to toe with many well equipped players from pvp guilds, one on one that is (my guild has only guild hall 11, so missing a lot of the guild boons, and i am its only serious pvp member). As soon as you are facing a powerfull premade and you are the only well geared player in the team, its gg, especially, if that premade is using TS. And your suggestions wont change that fact at all. And i have some experience with this, as i still remember the times, when there wasnt such a thing as "tenecity" in the game.

    But soloque would, especially if cryptic at least tries again to get a proper elo system running to get ballanced teams. Far to often i see pvps, where all the powerfull players are in one team, despite all having qued seperatly. I still dont undestand how they broke it, it used to work reasonably fine in the past. Sometimes i get the feeling, that cryptic has given up on pvp, like with the foundry. The last developer live stream also seemed to indicate as much.

    I could write an essay, but the main point is, there is literally zero harm in making the soloque a permanent feature, and there is a good chance, that it will improve the overall pvp experience.
  • overdriver13overdriver13 Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    "People can't be asked to actually work for their stuff.. CMON MAN. Seriously?!?". I work 40 hours a week already. If I sit down to enjoy a game and gotta work to enjoy the game, I'm playing the wrong game.
  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User

    "People can't be asked to actually work for their stuff.. CMON MAN. Seriously?!?". I work 40 hours a week already. If I sit down to enjoy a game and gotta work to enjoy the game, I'm playing the wrong game.

    The amount of sarcasm in beginning of my post I thought would be obvious. Not sure if everyone noticed lol.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • disposablehero#5903 disposablehero Member Posts: 128 Arc User

    "People can't be asked to actually work for their stuff.. CMON MAN. Seriously?!?". I work 40 hours a week already. If I sit down to enjoy a game and gotta work to enjoy the game, I'm playing the wrong game.

    We all have to put in the time bro, which is why I mentioned forming a team of your own in my previous post. Most of us have got jobs and kids to deal with too, you just have to take some time out of your busy raid schedule and get it done.
    Dungeon Interior Coordinator for WAR-BOUND. <i class="Italic"></i>

    PS4 characters:
    Brie Liadon, Shotgun Wizard
    Disposable Hero, Kidney removal technician
    Valorous Cake, Armored pastry defender
    Ginger Christ needs no introductions
  • overdriver13overdriver13 Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    Not worth it IMO. That is the view I have as a returning player. It's not even worth the time it takes to set up a bot. Last few nights, you're lucky to get roflstomped by a guild premade. Usually the que just sits unpopped and there are no matches at all. PvP in NWO is sadly dead. I guess I keep posting in some misplaced hope that things will change and it will become worth any kind of investment.
  • disposablehero#5903 disposablehero Member Posts: 128 Arc User
    If it's not worth your time, then why post at all? Complaining doesn't help anybody, least of all you.
    Dungeon Interior Coordinator for WAR-BOUND. <i class="Italic"></i>

    PS4 characters:
    Brie Liadon, Shotgun Wizard
    Disposable Hero, Kidney removal technician
    Valorous Cake, Armored pastry defender
    Ginger Christ needs no introductions
  • nezdin#5514 nezdin Member Posts: 259 Arc User
    Yes to solo Q. PvP NEEDS a bandaid now, even if it not the holy grail of PvP salvation. It is time to bring it back!
    Nezdin (DC)
    Aelan Icebleed (CW)
  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
    Not sure how this isnt already a thing tbh. Oh wait they keep making only pve changes.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • nezdin#5514 nezdin Member Posts: 259 Arc User
    I really am starting to get tired of meeting premades one after the other. So much time wasted for all of us. Absolute rubbish.
    Nezdin (DC)
    Aelan Icebleed (CW)
  • zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
    So does anyone have any ideas as to why the devs have not added solo Q?
    Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
    Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

  • mcgwarfacemcgwarface Member Posts: 160 Arc User
    Im not really sure why they keep turning it off. Makes me think one of the Devs is part of a Pre Made group and enjoys owning ;) Solo que makes more players relevant than not. It is the best temp solution until fixes are made in Mod 1374.
  • waywardwizard#4349 waywardwizard Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    ayroux said:

    Solo Q wont solve anything. Its a bandaid for the bigger issues in NW PVP.

    The biggest is gear gap. The power difference the BIS player has over the casual is so immense... People have quit trying to play PVP because a BIS player is 3x-4x as powerful as the average PVE player.

    removing tenacity on gear and giving it to everyone will be a HUGE first step.

    The second step is equalizing gear. THis can be done via the diminishing returns proposal from the poster above me (josiahiyon). Something needs to happen to equalize stats in PVP though so that the value of that extra 10k ARP or 20k Power or whatever the BIS player over an average player is diminished.

    Think of it as "reverse boosting".

    When leveling a lvl 41 gets boosted to lvl 49 to be competitive.

    In this idea the BIS 4.3k players get "debolstered" down to the 3k range - or whatever is "average". This is done VIA different diminishing returns for PVP.

    So if an "average" 3k Player has 5k ARP. The value of 20k ARP would be negligible compared to 5k.
    If the average player has 5k Crit. The value of anything over 5k would be severely diminished...

    ETC ETC.

    This way everyone can be "competitive" in PVP.

    Oh man, the big pvp guilds still writing those same old, endless improvement suggestions :smile: Like a dog chasing its own tail.

    Making everyone equal in a pvp environment is nothing new. Its being done by other games very well, its out there and any developer can copy it. They dont need us telling them how, what is important is they dont want to do it. Simple as that. Why? I'll let you folks work that out yourselves.
  • sweatapodimassweatapodimas Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    Have the Devs weighed in on this lately? Came back to pvp last night and it was a WASTELAND. It took me 15 min to get into a match :(
    "Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited April 2017

    Im not really sure why they keep turning it off. Makes me think one of the Devs is part of a Pre Made group and enjoys owning ;) Solo que makes more players relevant than not. It is the best temp solution until fixes are made in Mod 1374.

    LOL there is no DeV in any premade stomping group in Pvp on PC 100% for sure
    even when there was Pvp with the devs they came out in the most embarrassing crappy gear ever
    worst powers ever and did not even use thier mount at the camp to ride to mid they WALKED to go contest the point
  • nezdin#5514 nezdin Member Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited April 2017

    Have the Devs weighed in on this lately? Came back to pvp last night and it was a WASTELAND. It took me 15 min to get into a match :(

    I am guessing you are not Europe-based; the queues here pop up very frequently. Other than that, all the other match-making problems exist.

    Nezdin (DC)
    Aelan Icebleed (CW)
  • plaviaplavia Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    i voted yes.

    but to be honest, they should keep it event thing. and empower it.
    let it be an event where u reset the table (and make it works)
    drop prizes random in PVP if you cap durring this time. (limit amout of prices per day if you afraid of point trading, or let the prize be equal the amounts of kills/hp delt during capture)
    bring the leauge back durring the event with the old prices.

    what ever they feel, just bring something new and not only bug fixes.
  • sweatapodimassweatapodimas Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Still no word as to why this is (seemingly) being scrapped? @mimicking#6533
    @nitocris83


    Perhaps they should consider the soloQ as a non-competitive league vs the 5 man "competitive league". Not-so-different when I played intramural basketball in grad school, i.e. they had this type of tiered system. Hell I like playing recklessly in the soloQ, lowbies get kills/talk HAMSTER and it was as fun as a competitive 5v5 premade match.

    I hope I didn't just cast Raise Dead on this thread. It would only have 1 hp (old DnD reference) :p
    "Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa
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