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Well, that was it with mSVA...

kalindrakalindra Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,336 Arc User
...thanks to the DC changes, those who didn't managed to get their Mod 10/10.5 until now won't get them ever.
With the AA nerf life, barely any party now active farming for those weapons will be able to continue doing this - and even that how can, will soon be tired of the effort, especially after the time gate for river district weapons is now capped.
(Except those 4k+, of course, but those already have the modules completed.)
While that might be good for those who just reaching that modules, it's very frustrating for all those already and still struggling in mod 10.x.
Even more so to those who respected and invested in their DC as a fast track to be accepted in parties (which won't happen anymore) and probably invested a lot time and AD in the toons, are not even granted the promised increase in offensive power, so even using the not anymore wanted DC in single play is very dissatisfactory; and the outlook to invest millions of AD into a character AGAIN - while at the same time making it into something the player might never have though to play - is not very motivating, too.
So that's another character to vanish into unlimited hibernation, another character for which no stuff will be bought in the Zen market (maybe even with cash), so it's a lose-lose-situation.
Half the nerf and a far more impactful boost to offensive powers and it could have been a good change.

Comments

  • aftershafteraftershafter Member Posts: 156 Arc User
    Well, people might actually have to learn to complete these events now, rather than relying on a broken mechanic to clear the required content. The content is still *quite* doable - just tricky.

    Relic weapons are the best weapons in the game right now. To get them you'll have to work for them in a way you didn't have to prior to this because, what I said above was true - people were relying on a broken mechanic to make it easier than it was intended to be. The nice thing is there are weapons which are *almost* as outright powerful available more easily for those who want them so you won't be at a major competitive disadvantage even if you won't/can't get the relic weapons.

    Unfortunately for a lot of people - GWF's in particular - we've all become addicted to a virtual invulnerability ability that was pretty much half of the cleric's function. As a cleric player I, for one, won't miss it in favour of a more varied and balanced approach. As a cleric one got used to GWF's outright sprinting into sure-death scenarios with you blowing your stamina bars dashing to try and make it there before they died so you could drop an AA - if you had time to refill your AP's in the last encounter. And heaven forbid you don't get there in time or the chat will have a nice "DC do your job" waiting for you.

    This change was needed. AA was never supposed to work like it was. It's time for a lot of people to actually learn the content they were flying through.

  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    IMO the truth is somewhere in between. AA was OP, I wont deny it, but 'lesser' geared groups will have major problems clearing dungeons now. Thing is, lesser geared in most chases is still ~500 IL over the min IL for the dungeons.

    MSVH would be a walk in the park for a BIS PvE group with the right buff/debuff/dps setup, but you will struggle to build this group. 'Average' build groups with ~3.6k IL will have to work for MSVH more then before these changes.

    BTW, I would not mind the AA nerf and these stupid one shot mechanics, if surviving a hit by Orcus would not depend on the server lag. Today, on my GF, it went like this: Orcus hits, I cast my daily, lose AP, should be dmg immune and I die or while I cast the daily I get a 120k (700k+) hit. I get, that I die, if I HAMSTER up my rotation, but to die bc of a lag spike is annoying.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • ereepieereepie Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Typical swing of the nerf hammer, developers that cannot develop balanced content or fix broken abilities just heave a mighty swing and break a class to uselessness. Personally I play an AC and where I agree AA was broken and needed a fix, it certainly did not need to be destroyed.

    We go from 100% DR (Broken) to overall what .5% DR? I am pulling that number out of the air but look at it this way. You have a FLAT % resist not based on HP or Damage just a flat resist %, instead of fixing it to the original 90% it was intended to be, they just make it HP based and for the lowest amount they can get away with.

    Clearly the Developers want people frustrated by being one shotted, that is the only thing I can gather. Power sharing reduced? Oh ya once again Developers who cannot make balanced content.

    "Oh Poo the players are killing everything to fast! Ok lets take away power so the fights last Longer and we do not have to make new content so soon"

    I say Typical because this is always the case in games that have grown long in the tooth, maybe the class is still playable but I for one will never be doing FBI. A joke of required gear score "Oh you can get in with 2800 but in reality you need 4000 to survive" MSVA same thing.

    Lets make a required gear score so that you are encouraged to do the content to get the gear that gives you the gear score to survive, but you need that gear to get the required gear score and since you will not survive you cannot get that gear unless someone carries you. I do not know about the rest of you but I surly do not want a group to be forced to carry my butt.

    The only thing that was helping people get thru that content was AA, Now that is gone and so is the demand for an AC Cleric.

    Bravo!
  • rickcase276rickcase276 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,404 Arc User
    I tried to explain that to a guildmate of mine. That a Righteous DO combined with an AA/AC/DC is the way to go in a party, but he still thinks he wants to take two AA/DCs to FBI.
  • ilmenirailmenira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User
    @dread4moor
    sorry, what you suggest here is for the holy few
    it makes so little sense to give this "good advice" to people for whom it is TOTALLY out of reach...
    go PUG valindra a few times and see for yourself
  • rescorlianrescorlian Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    I suppose I'm one of the 4k that has completed and has all my gear. I'm still going to make the point. While I am deeply saddened to see my DCs (yes, I refer to them as mine as I love them and appreciate them. They....complete me) once again get nerfed, seems like a continuous pathway to intentional destruction of them has long been underway and is still being travelled.

    mSVA, has been a continuous source of embarrassment for me as a DPS main class. Watching the utter failure of so many players to take responsibility (other than hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit) for taking halestorm away, or going and standing on runes, or not standing RIGHT next to the tank, is brutal. I see a couple posters saying the same thing I am now. So I shall join my voice in chorus, quit whining, ya'll are the problem that got DCs into the mess they are now. Honestly, I'm kind of to the point of opinion, where the best thing for this game would be to shut this forum down entirely, too shut so many malcontents up.

    To my brother and sister DC players, sorry you guys got hit. To my fellow DPS players that are going to roll around this because you know good and well you weren't part of the problem in the first place, cheers m8's. To the tanks, keep doing what you're doing, sorry for the next nerf you get. As for the rest of the DPS, sorry you have to learn how to play.

    <3 Bonk
    Bonk - Damage dealing machine and midnight lover of all things tasty

    The first inner look at majesty - https://youtu.be/8Yavk790hMA
    The second build and some fun - https://youtu.be/b5U0H-Mdkxg
    A little update - https://youtu.be/0F-qUKOv4UU
    The thread where this can be found - http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1210188/bonk-a-tale-of-damage
  • jase2cooljase2cool Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 165 Arc User
    Players are paying for developer's mistake for lacking of foresight..
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    Uhm..please allow me to discuss.

    Back in the days when VT was introduced we didn't had AA or any other weird/broken HAMSTER. Of course there were some OP things like always in NWO, heh...

    Anyway, you had to actually coordinate and touch the freaking caskets rather than just burning Val down with brute force.

    So please...don't tell me that with all the tools the dev's gave us from Mod3, we're unable to finish off VT.

    I really avoid saying this but with enough thought put into the game and a bit of knowledge, players should really have no issues to beat any T1.

    I mean, c'mon !
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    First of all a DC will still be wanted in every group and every raid.
    Player have to adapt, you actually have to know a little bit about classes building a 10 person raid and about that fight.
    The first contact I got in SOMI getting into a random groups was very poor, since some player just call for mSVA without even knowing anything about the classes or content.
    Maybe we can put some information in this threat about ways to get a party running.

    I suppose to get a GF into a group running Knights Valor + tactition feat, going for perma turtle and an OP actually tanking the boss.
  • ilmenirailmenira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User
    @kemi1984
    yes, i remember the first days with valindra quite well! :)
    and the months after... and the clock segments each of us took care of
    (fun times!) ...

    and yes, also pugged valindra these days quite a bit
    there are times it's near impossible to finish
    (except soloing her in the very last phase and that takes quite a while for a support char)
    try for yourself!

    it was just an example...
    the wider neverwinter scene is often much weaker than what is sometimes taken granted for here in the forum...
    there are worlds between new players and old ones, pug and guild runs etc...

    we are all players and we play the same game
    i hope we can have fun!


  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    We sure do and we sure will !:)

    I always took 6-9 in VT no further questions please :P

    Pugging is fun at times. I actually enjoy doing some pug runs from time to time. Not a lot of tanks in this game - that rule still applies.

    Beating the dungeon is still possible. We're just got SO used to brute force HAMSTER the content we're not seeing any other option.
    I'm happy AA perma immunity is gone. It was needed as well as ITF huge, game breaking bug.

    We should think while playing, use what we have to our advantage and broken a.k.a OP stuff should never been allowed.

    GG everyone !
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • rapo973rapo973 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 831 Arc User
    edited March 2017


    But the truly skilled AC DC will wait, test and see.

    So far, in my ACT testing AC still works.

    And, if coupled with a RiDO, can cause unholy destruction.

    Def true. I'm playing my AC DC: I had to adapt a bit but I had 2/2 successful mSVA runs in groups going from 3.4k up to 4k. Honestly I was not so confident before testing it.
    For sure it's harder now and quality play matters.
    On the other hand, lower geared/casual teams needs a hand: that's why I think that the DC virtuous path should be reworked to provide better mitigation and survivability at the cost to give less buffs/debuff.
    Finally RiAC+RiDO is a very interesting combination.
    Post edited by rapo973 on

    Oltreverso guild leader
    Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
  • terrasight#2000 terrasight Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    <<< We should think while playing, use what we have to our advantage and broken a.k.a OP stuff should never been allowed. >>>

    This... learn mechanics, learn how your class and other works, movement... I'm happy if things are not be this easy anymore...

    DC still can buff, maybe become a mix of buff/debuff with the right combinations, don't know... but it's like always: PPL crys and after a few days they can run all content again with the right group-combination.
  • ilmenirailmenira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User
    @kemi1984
    yes, left of the door, looking from outside...
    good for orientation!
    ;)
  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Member Posts: 842 Arc User

    <<< We should think while playing, use what we have to our advantage and broken a.k.a OP stuff should never been allowed. >>>

    This... learn mechanics, learn how your class and other works, movement... I'm happy if things are not be this easy anymore...

    DC still can buff, maybe become a mix of buff/debuff with the right combinations, don't know... but it's like always: PPL crys and after a few days they can run all content again with the right group-combination.

    What if your class isn't part of the "right" group-combination?

  • terrasight#2000 terrasight Member Posts: 112 Arc User

    <<< We should think while playing, use what we have to our advantage and broken a.k.a OP stuff should never been allowed. >>>

    This... learn mechanics, learn how your class and other works, movement... I'm happy if things are not be this easy anymore...

    DC still can buff, maybe become a mix of buff/debuff with the right combinations, don't know... but it's like always: PPL crys and after a few days they can run all content again with the right group-combination.

    What if your class isn't part of the "right" group-combination?

    What class is useless?
  • mysteriasdrassamysteriasdrassa Member Posts: 299 Arc User
    Hmmm.. I still pug Valindra,,, A LOT,, because it's my ONLY option,,, rarely do I run into a group that absolutely can not beat her
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,553 Arc User
    I saw a number of people still forming MSVA groups last night. As usual, they were looking for healers. This time however, they weren't asking for "AA DC" garbage. No, they were asking for DCs and/or Healadins. I don't even have a level 70 pally, but seeing that made me very happy.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • terrasight#2000 terrasight Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    Thats the next reason why I like the changes. Healpala will have a place in groups again.
  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    Seriously? If a group could finish it before the nerf they should have no problems finish it after the nerf. All you have to do is learn the mechanics and not screw up.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    mSVA is going to be less forgiving now after the AC/DC nerf that is for sure ... it's also going to mean you need more ranged DPS in your group and people will have to be a lot more careful about standing on the runes and moving when they have red under them. AA has been nerfed to the point it's useless to stop Winter's Call, that is certainly true. No question you will need a tank capable of dealing with the kind of hits that Storvald can deal. But the DC revisions have given us damage buffs like Terrifying Insight (a very potent DPS boost for the whole party) and fixed most of the issues with Prophecy of Doom, meaning a DO DC is an excellent buffer now for things like mSVA.

    Bottom line ... yes, you need to avoid red, stand on runes, have a skilled tank, and make sure to bring enough ranged DPS for the runes.
    PandorasMisfits_Logo_175_zpskpytcqxc.png
    Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
    Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
  • btairbornebtairborne Member Posts: 352 Arc User
    Try Healadin/DC combo groups with 2 DPS instead of 3.
  • aftershafteraftershafter Member Posts: 156 Arc User

    ... and fixed most of the issues with Prophecy of Doom

    They did fix *most* of the issues with Prophecy of Doom, but there is an odd one they didn't - odd, insofar as the patch notes specifically say it's fixed, but the issue still remains. Despite the patch notes specifically saying that they fixed the "If the creature dies while affected by PoD mechanic, it instantly recharges" mechanic, it is not working. Not as important for groups - though still nice for AP generation during trash and whatnot - this is one of the things that makes this long cooldown ability desirable in solo play. Would love to see it fixed, like the patch notes said but failed to deliver ;)
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,404 Arc User
    ACTually master sva is easier than fbi. ONly you have to worry a wave of mobs and then 2 tanks can share the mark of storvald.............. . AND the runes is it hard to stand on it? anyway.
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    Stop whining.

    Like FBI, it's supposed to be the hardest raid. It's still doable. three tanks makes it really safe. Eventually enough people will know what to do and it will become puggable, like with tiamat.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
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  • waywardwizard#4349 waywardwizard Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    kalindra said:

    ...thanks to the DC changes, those who didn't managed to get their Mod 10/10.5 until now won't get them ever.
    With the AA nerf life, barely any party now active farming for those weapons will be able to continue doing this - and even that how can, will soon be tired of the effort, especially after the time gate for river district weapons is now capped.
    (Except those 4k+, of course, but those already have the modules completed.)
    While that might be good for those who just reaching that modules, it's very frustrating for all those already and still struggling in mod 10.x.
    Even more so to those who respected and invested in their DC as a fast track to be accepted in parties (which won't happen anymore) and probably invested a lot time and AD in the toons, are not even granted the promised increase in offensive power, so even using the not anymore wanted DC in single play is very dissatisfactory; and the outlook to invest millions of AD into a character AGAIN - while at the same time making it into something the player might never have though to play - is not very motivating, too.
    So that's another character to vanish into unlimited hibernation, another character for which no stuff will be bought in the Zen market (maybe even with cash), so it's a lose-lose-situation.
    Half the nerf and a far more impactful boost to offensive powers and it could have been a good change.

    Im sorry to say this but get with the program. Relic weapons and vivified armor are items for the truly bis crowd to make them stand apart and above. Its why mod 11 weapons were nerfed.

    In short most people skipped the STK gear, its the sensible thing to do.
  • oggycz#5356 oggycz Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    mSVA is still perfectly doable. Today I was in 2 succesful runs. It takes about 8 mins. Most of chars were between 3.4-4, few 4+. We had 2DC, GF, OP prot, OP dev (me) + DPSs. In second run just 2 chars died once.
    Svatá Prdelka
    game - Human/real life - ???
    OP 18k+ Devotion/Justice - Light
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