Is there a big issue with M11 Weapon restoration?

minotaur2857 · March 2017

The arcanic focus drop rate is just stupidly low atm, remove some of the RNG which is horribly broken all over this game. When you've not had any AF yet that day, and 3 hours later mainly doing digs, you've found one, this is not showing any real signs of progress. If you needed a load more arcane focus, and every dig dropped 1-3 (with or without a daily limit), that would at least give you some progress for what you did.

spideymt · March 2017

I hope they gonna change nothing on ressources for new weapons. You only need time for new weapons. Nothing else. Comparing to SKT and relic weapons you got nothing to do as some dailies and some grind. Get over it and do it.

waywardwizard · March 2017

Yea, the arcanic focus drop is too random

adinosii · March 2017

spideymt said:
I hope they gonna change nothing on ressources for new weapons. You only need time for new weapons. Nothing else. Comparing to SKT and relic weapons you got nothing to do as some dailies and some grind. Get over it and do it.

That's what people are doing....and just to clarify - the complaints are not really that there is a grind, but rather how it is implemented.

First you have the EoE time-gating, which basically means you cannot get the weapons until after 2 weeks (less in the case of the Mirage weapons). You can speed things up a little bit by grinding the HEs a bit and doing the additional quests every day, as they have a chance of dropping EoE. This is a good option for people who have extra time - I am fine with that.

Then you have a second layer of time-gating, because you need at least 29 days to get the Arcanic Focus you need for restoration, but unlike the EoE grinding, there is no way to speed that up. Moreover, as there is a daily AF limit, you cannot just play less one day and make it up by playing more the next day - you have to devote 1-2 hours every day to the AF grinding, and that is if you are lucky. If the RNG does not like you and you get unlucky one day, sorry - it sucks to be you - your progress just got delayed by one day.

They could have implemented this in a different way which would have caused a lot less annoyance - say, instead of a daily limit of 3, have a weekly limit of 21. Same time-gating, but people would at least have a choice in when they grind.

Then there is the additional annoyance that the daily limit does not reset at the same time as the daily quests, but is on a separate timer - seemingly an individual one - in my case it seems to be around 00:15 GMT, whereas the quests reset at 10:00 GMT. That's just a totally unnecessary source of annoyance.

So, to rephrase - I am not complaining there is a grind - I'm fine with that - I'm complaining about the implementation, as a double layer of time-gating, with a nasty RNG on top and no way of speeding up the process by grinding additionally.

In M10, at least you had the option of running mSVA over and over and over until you got what you needed. Here, willingness to do extra grinding is not rewarded.

As it is, I expect to have everything I need to restore the first set of weapons on Sunday 26th at around 02:00 GMT, but many people with less time to play, or those who primarily play on weekends will take much longer - probably beyond the next 2xRP event.

pando83 · March 2017

To be honest the whole mod 11 weapons thing is a massive load of bullcrap in my opinion. Let's see.

It's all about Relics vs Mod 11 weapons. What we were told was that mod 11 weapons are weaker than relics (true) with crappy bonuses to "preserve relics value", since mod 11 weapons were supposed to be "easier to obtain".

Relics: get them instantly in campaign, no cost.
Mod 11 weap: need way more grind to just get them (at least a few days), costs campaign currencies

RESULT: MOD 11 WEAPONS HARDER TO GET "RAW"

Relics: reviving materials cost more but are faster to get (most unbound in AH, or you get them 100% from quests)
Mod 11 weap: reviving materials cost almost nothing but some of them are WAAAAAAY harder to get (arcane focus/writings), takes WAY more time

RESULT: MOD 11 WEAPONS LESS COSTLY TO RESTORE, BUT TAKES WAAAAAAY MORE TIME TO RESTORE THEM IN THE END

Relics: can be refined at no cost since stones drop from the dungeons and treasure nodes, giving a ton of RPs. Takes longer/ more effort, instead, to drop the marks
Mod 11 weap: must spend quite a lot to refine, more than relics, but marks are way easier to get

RESULT: MOD 11 WEAPONS MORE COSTLY TO REFINE, BUT FASTER/EASIER

In the end, it looks like there's no much difference when it comes to how much you must spend or how long it takes to get the weapons.

Now we are told that mod 11 are slower to get because...it's to preserve relics value. But weren't we told that mod 11 weapons were made weaker already to "preserve relics value"? So now they are weaker and take longer to get?

Conclusion: relics owners basically gave feedback on preview to make mod 11 weapons harder to get, then complained on forums to make them weaker than relics. And the devs followed. Result: enjoy grinding arcane focus for months while you wait for the devs to "figure out" how to fix this mess.

It was also funny to see how we went from "mod 11 weapons must be weaker because they are easier to obtain" to "ok, they are harder to obtain but well, you can do it through solo play with less iLvL (wrong: you can get them with a low iLvL. You need a high iLvL to refine them with SVA marks).

If we look at green, relics are actually EASIER/ FASTER to get. And players who can upgrade weapons to legendary already have the iLvL to go to any dungeon/ skirmish.

What i saw with these weapons was a ton of useless complaints, selfishness, and incompetence by the devs, that brought us to a point where mod 11 weapons will still take long enough to obtain and refine to be compared to relics. But...they will have useless set bonuses.

In the meanwhile, the first 2xRP event will go with most players still unable to get the new sets restored, after more than 1 month. Which means that going for mod 11 weapons will need at least2+ months or more since mod 11 launch.

So relic owners in the end enjoy months with 25%+ damage compared to those who didn't get relics. Plus mod 11 weapons will be weaker.

It's a complete success.

kreatyve · March 2017

Cleaned up the thread. Be respectful people, no flaming. If they start up again, report the comment and don't respond or quote it, so I don't have to remove your responses to it too! Thanks!

gabrieldourden · March 2017

pando83 said:
To be honest the whole mod 11 weapons thing is a massive load of bullcrap in my opinion. Let's see.

It's all about Relics vs Mod 11 weapons. What we were told was that mod 11 weapons are weaker than relics (true) with crappy bonuses to "preserve relics value", since mod 11 weapons were supposed to be "easier to obtain".

Relics: get them instantly in campaign, no cost.
Mod 11 weap: need way more grind to just get them (at least a few days), costs campaign currencies

RESULT: MOD 11 WEAPONS HARDER TO GET "RAW"

Relics: reviving materials cost more but are faster to get (most unbound in AH, or you get them 100% from quests)
Mod 11 weap: reviving materials cost almost nothing but some of them are WAAAAAAY harder to get (arcane focus/writings), takes WAY more time

RESULT: MOD 11 WEAPONS LESS COSTLY TO RESTORE, BUT TAKES WAAAAAAY MORE TIME TO RESTORE THEM IN THE END

Relics: can be refined at no cost since stones drop from the dungeons and treasure nodes, giving a ton of RPs. Takes longer/ more effort, instead, to drop the marks
Mod 11 weap: must spend quite a lot to refine, more than relics, but marks are way easier to get

RESULT: MOD 11 WEAPONS MORE COSTLY TO REFINE, BUT FASTER/EASIER

In the end, it looks like there's no much difference when it comes to how much you must spend or how long it takes to get the weapons.

Now we are told that mod 11 are slower to get because...it's to preserve relics value. But weren't we told that mod 11 weapons were made weaker already to "preserve relics value"? So now they are weaker and take longer to get?

Conclusion: relics owners basically gave feedback on preview to make mod 11 weapons harder to get, then complained on forums to make them weaker than relics. And the devs followed. Result: enjoy grinding arcane focus for months while you wait for the devs to "figure out" how to fix this mess.

It was also funny to see how we went from "mod 11 weapons must be weaker because they are easier to obtain" to "ok, they are harder to obtain but well, you can do it through solo play with less iLvL (wrong: you can get them with a low iLvL. You need a high iLvL to refine them with SVA marks).

If we look at green, relics are actually EASIER/ FASTER to get. And players who can upgrade weapons to legendary already have the iLvL to go to any dungeon/ skirmish.

What i saw with these weapons was a ton of useless complaints, selfishness, and incompetence by the devs, that brought us to a point where mod 11 weapons will still take long enough to obtain and refine to be compared to relics. But...they will have useless set bonuses.

In the meanwhile, the first 2xRP event will go with most players still unable to get the new sets restored, after more than 1 month. Which means that going for mod 11 weapons will need at least2+ months or more since mod 11 launch.

So relic owners in the end enjoy months with 25%+ damage compared to those who didn't get relics. Plus mod 11 weapons will be weaker.

It's a complete success.

Well, lets look at the numbers...
M10 and M11 weapons have the same weapon damage and the same stats. Only the bonus is different.
For healers Fey weapons are probably better than Relic.
For tanks (I mean real tanks, not dps spec'd ones) Life-forged weapons are pretty much where Relic weapons are.

For DPSers, we look at a 3,33% damage increase in long fights (the only ones that matter) provided that you can always trigger the DPS bonus (which is unlikely) vs a 1,33% damage increase, plus some Dot or explosion for Aboleth weapons or 1% plus the illusions damage for Mirage, meaning that we are talking of less than 2% difference , that given the current content is negligible.
And this provided that you always trigger the offensive bonus of the relic weapons. If you trigger it 50:50 the difference is close to zero.

I already restored one of the two weapons on both my characters (Pact blade on SW, Axes on HR). By next double-refinement event I will have all four of them at Legendary (actually the main hand of my SW is purple already, I could get it Legendary today with some investment and get both weapons Legendary before the end of the month). What they should do is adding ways to get Arcanic Foci while keeping the 3/day limit. You should get one for each Wizard you beat, one for Gold in the skirmish and say a 1/3 drop rate in dig sites.

plasticbat · March 2017

Wait! Is there actually a 3 Arcanic Focus per day limit?

adinosii · March 2017

plasticbat said:
Wait! Is there actually a 3 Arcanic Focus per day limit?

Practially everybody seems to agree there is. What's worse, the reset time is not the usual time for daily quest resets, but seems different from one individual to other. In my case the AF counter seems to reset around 00:15 local time, while the daily reset is at 10:00. Once it resets, I get the 3 AFs fairly quickly (typically 10 or less dig sites...but after that, nothing until next reset

tripsofthrymr · March 2017

See this update from @nitocris83

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1229187/arcane-focus-writings-update

adinosii · March 2017

I don't quite understand why they are looking at the Arcane Magical Writings, as they are a non-issue, but if they do anything to impreove the Arcanic Focus issue that will be an improvement - in particular for people that want multiple weapon sets.

I hope to see something like:

Changing from a 3/day max to a 21/week max
or
Raising the daily max or removing it altogether
or
Adding more ways to get Arcanic Focus
or
Lowering the Arcanic Focus restoration cost from 40/45 to, say, 20/30.

Anyhow, we'll see. I'm happy to see some response.

As we have a workaround for the dig site perma-locking, that leaves just one major M11 issue - the fact that some of the HEs sometimes cannot be completed.

plasticbat · March 2017

I am missing something. Why is Arcane Magic writing not an issue? I have to admit I am not aggressive to get these stuff but based on what I got so far, Arcane Magic writing is similar to Focus. I have 3 toons doing R.D. The Writing vs Focus are: 12 and 7, 11 and 10, 2 and 5.

xxmantaraxx · March 2017

This is another back pedal for people that play multiple toons. I may finish this on my main but I dont know if I would have the patience to do it again for any of my alts. The idea that there is a cap on getting focus daily is insane. I get one or two days a week that i can realy devote to playing and with this limit in place i might be able to finish this on my main before m12. As stated by OP, this is a game ans supposed to be fun and gtinding like this is most definitely not fun.

namelesshero347 · March 2017

Arcane Magical Writing is unbounded and can be brought in the AH. People who are not interested in the mod 11 weapons and are just doing ship/HE to unlock spellplague will have plenty of writings to sell.

namelesshero347 · March 2017

My four toons still have only 8 to 16 focus. If I don't see an improvement that will allow me to get the weapons before mod 12 doing just the dailies (no I'm not going to pound out 20 dig sites per toon a day), it will be time to give up on mod 11 weapons.

thefiresidecat · March 2017

I hope whatever fixes they implement are released on the consoles at the same time as the content lol. reading this thread has made me a sad panda

litaaers · March 2017

adinosii said:

plasticbat said:
Wait! Is there actually a 3 Arcanic Focus per day limit?
Practially everybody seems to agree there is. What's worse, the reset time is not the usual time for daily quest resets, but seems different from one individual to other. In my case the AF counter seems to reset around 00:15 local time, while the daily reset is at 10:00. Once it resets, I get the 3 AFs fairly quickly (typically 10 or less dig sites...but after that, nothing until next reset

I got 4 AF today, 4 separate dig sites. Some others have had similar experiences. I'd love to hear official word, but I wouldn't carve it in stone just yet.

EDIT: Just for clarity, between noon and 10:30pm EDT

spideymt · March 2017

What i Level do you need for the new weapons? What 10 man dungoen do you have to farm over and over and over again to refine mod 11 weapons? Im just curious...

adinosii · March 2017

plasticbat said:
I am missing something. Why is Arcane Magic writing not an issue? I have to admit I am not aggressive to get these stuff but based on what I got so far, Arcane Magic writing is similar to Focus.

There are fundamental differences. You can only get Arcanic Focus in one way, and there is a daily cap of 3. For Arcane Magical Writings there are multiple ways to acquire them and there is no daily cap, so if you want to farm them, you can do that.

By the time I got both my mainhand and my offhand, I had only gotten 40 Arcanic Focus (I got 3 most days, but there were days where I got only 1-2). However, I had reached the 105 Arcane Magical Writings I needed before that point.

The easiest way to farm Arcane Magical Writings is to start with a pile of Reclaimed weapons (which you can get by farming Sewer-type dig sites or from the Traveling vendor (You need some Riches and Magic too, but the Weapons are the bottleneck). Then just visit all the guard posts and upgrade them - switching instances when you finish all 9 sites.

As soon as you reach 100 Security, do the "Secure the District" task and that will earn you one Arcane Magical Writings I found it easy to get around 5 per day this way. In between you can do some HEs - they have a chance of dropping 1-2 Arcane Magical Writings, and treasure chests occasionally give them too.

Finally, Arcane Magical Writings are not bound so you can buy them on the AH - people who are not interested in the M11 weapons,, but are doing the campaign to get the boons and unlock the dungeons will presumably sell their surplus on the AH.

Multiple ways, as I said.

adinosii · March 2017

namelesshero347 said:
My four toons still have only 8 to 16 focus. If I don't see an improvement that will allow me to get the weapons before mod 12 doing just the dailies (no I'm not going to pound out 20 dig sites per toon a day), it will be time to give up on mod 11 weapons.

You should have them before Mod 12 - the question is whether you will have them before Mod11-B, as they promised that "soon".

Personally I find 20 dig sites per day (or at least 18), to be reasonable - that's what I have been doing anyhow - spending around 2 hours per day on the dig sites - my issue is more with having to continue that long after I have gotten all the other resources.

adinosii · March 2017

litaaers said:

I got 4 AF today, 4 separate dig sites. Some others have had similar experiences. I'd love to hear official word, but I wouldn't carve it in stone just yet.

EDIT: Just for clarity, between noon and 10:30pm EDT

Yea, but the daily limit might have reset in the middle of your gaming session. I have determined that for me the limit resets around 00:15. If I have already gotten 3 during the day, no more will drop until after the reset time, and then they will start dropping again - until I have 3 and then nothing more until the next reset.

I have gotten up to 5 in a single gaming session, but that has been between, say 22:00 and 02:00 - meaning that some of the drops would fall on one day and the rest on the next.

Now I just go in once per day,after I know it has reset, do one or two rounds of the dig sites, and get my 3 drops - then I quit - I have seen there is no point in continue farming the dig sites after that.

adinosii · March 2017

spideymt said:
What i Level do you need for the new weapons? What 10 man dungoen do you have to farm over and over and over again to refine mod 11 weapons? Im just curious...

No specific minimum level and this is perfectly soloable. If your IL is low, it might be advisable to team up with someone, though, as all the mobs are level 73.

Basically, if you can do SoMI, you can do the River District.

There is a small guide in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hVZng0skcQW4dfH0Qy9bcBihAvw78Km4g7wm_eWRn_0/edit?usp=sharing

litaaers · March 2017

adinosii said:

litaaers said:

I got 4 AF today, 4 separate dig sites. Some others have had similar experiences. I'd love to hear official word, but I wouldn't carve it in stone just yet.

EDIT: Just for clarity, between noon and 10:30pm EDT

Yea, but the daily limit might have reset in the middle of your gaming session. I have determined that for me the limit resets around 00:15. If I have already gotten 3 during the day, no more will drop until after the reset time, and then they will start dropping again - until I have 3 and then nothing more until the next reset.

I have gotten up to 5 in a single gaming session, but that has been between, say 22:00 and 02:00 - meaning that some of the drops would fall on one day and the rest on the next.

Now I just go in once per day,after I know it has reset, do one or two rounds of the dig sites, and get my 3 drops - then I quit - I have seen there is no point in continue farming the dig sites after that.

Well,. I just got another 3 from 6am til now. That's 7 in less than 24 hours. YMMV.

silverkelt · March 2017

Some more stell examples of my frustrating wall on arcane focus.

To get 3 on my DC yesterday.. I spent 1.5 hours of grinding doing 12 dig sites..

for 3..

........ let that sink in..

most of my toons i quit after 1 or 2.. I hate doing more then 5-6 total.. I never seem to get the 3 in 5 as some of you do.. OR VERY rarely..

my dps toons Ill do 6-7 if I dont have 1 yet.. as at least they can blow through them..

Its very painful, frustrating and time consuming..

they clearly did something wrong here and im hoping against hope they fix it Thursday and not just add "1" more to daily or something like that.. thats not enough.. something IS wrong with the loot tables for most of us.. that is causing arcane focus to be a super rare drop.

I have no idea what the rhyme or reason.. dont know if its something I did that caused the loot issue. THIS is after the 20 or so hours AFTER I get my last.. so it isnt a personal timer issue.. IM JUST not getting them.

For some reason my HR.. seems to get 3 in a reasonable time frame.. thats it.. all other toons now seem locked down on this 1 out of 7 or 8 type of drop loot table.

I simply am not going to run dig sites into the teens on a daily basis..

Im so frustrated that they YET again released a mod that was clearly not cleaned up on QA side of the fence.

silverkelt · March 2017

litaaers said:

adinosii said:

litaaers said:

I got 4 AF today, 4 separate dig sites. Some others have had similar experiences. I'd love to hear official word, but I wouldn't carve it in stone just yet.

EDIT: Just for clarity, between noon and 10:30pm EDT

Yea, but the daily limit might have reset in the middle of your gaming session. I have determined that for me the limit resets around 00:15. If I have already gotten 3 during the day, no more will drop until after the reset time, and then they will start dropping again - until I have 3 and then nothing more until the next reset.

I have gotten up to 5 in a single gaming session, but that has been between, say 22:00 and 02:00 - meaning that some of the drops would fall on one day and the rest on the next.

Now I just go in once per day,after I know it has reset, do one or two rounds of the dig sites, and get my 3 drops - then I quit - I have seen there is no point in continue farming the dig sites after that.
Well,. I just got another 3 from 6am til now. That's 7 in less than 24 hours. YMMV.

Not everyone is getting steller drop rates.. I dont know what is going on or how to prove if some of us are bugged or what.

I dont know .. all I know is Im getting a average of 1 out of 6.. that is ridiculous. IN FACT it seems to be getting worse for me.. where some toons after 20 hour waits ARE NOT getting any at all.. Ive gone 3 days on my GF with zero drops..

Something is clearly wrong.. so I hope they fix it for thursday.

Some people are saying its 10 hours.. some say 12.. some say 20.. I DONT know because they wont tell us.

But for me, personally, something is VERY wrong..

adinosii · March 2017

litaaers said:

Well,. I just got another 3 from 6am til now. That's 7 in less than 24 hours. YMMV.

Now, that is highly interesting, because no matter when the reset is, you should never be able to get more than 6 in any 24-hour period if the limit is indeed 3/day for Arcanic Focus. You didn't use the "double looting" exploit by any chance? (Nah...ignore that question....it's none of my business).

Normally I would do some experimentation to try to figure this out, but as they have basically promised some change on Thursday, I'm just going to wait and see.

silverkelt · March 2017

I just went 0 out of 8 on my dc.. im done until thursday.. this is bull HAMSTER.

I will do 5 a day until then.. if I get one I get one.. if I dont I dont.

Spinning my wheels for this pos coding HAMSTER is beyond reason.

I also believe many people are doing the double looting.. IM not trying to single them out.. I dont really care.. BUT then to come on here and say "drop rate is fine" when they know its not.. is kind of contemptible. That is the real issue with me.. stop posting on these effing forums that everything is ok.. when you are using a exploit.. its not ok.. it sux.

Something is VERY wrong with the loot table. I JUST hope they really do fix it.

nnrudser · March 2017

I currently have 22 Arcane Focus, and a few more Arcane Writings. I agree that something needs to change on the Arcane focus drop rates. Everything else you need can be found in multiple campaign missions. Whether Security, or Magic I can get Spell Amber, etc. I, however, cannot expect to get an Arcane Focus out of a Dig site. As a GF I am not grinding through 20 of those per day.

The requirements for Arcane focus should be halved if the drop rate is to remain the same. If they wanted to keep the older Relic weapons viable for Module 11 then they shouldn't have included new weapons at the launch.

No one is ever happy with a new Module,and there will always be complainers. the developers gave you what they thought you wanted, and some of you are mad. The developers have listened, and have told you they will fix it, and you're still mad.

If you don't like the game then stop playing it.

silverkelt · March 2017

but yet others are reporting ten hour timers.. some 12.. some 20.. some 24..

THEY WONT EFFING TELL Us.. which is one of the issues.

When I went in this morning, I was over 20 hours..

and zippo..

I cant always play at the same time all the time.. which again.. is another issue..

They are so terrible at thinking things through sometimes..

Is there a big issue with M11 Weapon restoration?

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