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"Doing It All Wrong" DevOP (easy-mode for soloing)

beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
edited November 2016 in The Citadel
Writing this because of players saying their DevOP is completely broken by the Vow of Enmity changes. The way I play mine, every change that has ever been made to the OP class has had minimal impact, and now that some crucial things are supposedly fixed, I feel more comfortable sharing.

NWCalc:
http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/op?b=2xi0:z84v4s:bwg4:9jb8n,1ri0u50:1uu550v:1000000:1uu5000&h=0&p=ood&o=0

Not to go into detail about every feat choice, but it's something I've tinkered with based on reading Sharp's old paladin guide and what other players run. Hitpoint-increasing feats are taken to maximize Aura of Courage, and I've specced into Dominating Presence to add flexibility to how far others can be from me and still benefit from auras. Most of it is really standard stuff, and it's standard because it works really well. This is not rocket surgery.

Powers are just filled out to highlight a few choices. As typical, you'll have to assign a ton of points into abilities you'll never use.

Boons:
https://two30.github.io/neverwinter-boon/?110000000000022221122242212122220222230000001200

I haven't filled out boons I don't have. While I have some idea what I might take, I feel this is a more accurate representation of the character as it plays now. Campaigns that are missing really are things I've not gotten around to yet.

Important boon selections are Burning Guidance (still a useful damage source even with the cooldown), Elven Ferocity, and Shadowtouch. While I would normally take the heal procs over the damage, this character is the opposite. I'm not worried about healing but I'll take what damage I can get.

I take offensive primary stats, especially power, over defensive. Regen instead of lifesteal or lifesteal severity simply because I feel it synergizes better with the DevOP's self heals, but it's probably on the irrelevant side. Many boons are matters of personal preference rather than there being a "best" choice.

When choosing boons, you also need to take your gear into account. A lot of boons give flat amounts of utility stats, which have diminishing returns and you don't really want to go over 1000 on any of them if you can help it. Keep in mind that a boon that says "regenerate stamina x% faster" does not count towards that cap. At any rate, anywhere you have a choice between utility stats, take the one that will make the most difference to your character. I can't tell you what that will be.

While I have not tried speccing into control strength boons, it may be worth trying on this character to increase the duration of stun and disorient, for the simple reason that a lot of boons that compete with control-related ones are less relevant to the DevOP than other classes. I'll throw that on my to-do list.

Gear:
I've looked for power/crit stats where possible and taken power/recovery as a second choice, using Dusk and Elemental Drowcraft pieces because they're easy. In-combat resistance ignored gets above 60% due to Loyal Avenger gear on companion, and armor pen is the only offensive stronghold boon I have access to. Don't be a support character that neglects your resistance ignored though because it will make your soloing life hell. If you have more better SH boon options, you can change these out for solo and party content.

I'm using Tiamat pieces for neck and waist, even though the set bonus doesn't matter. We never said this character was built to be perfect. I also don't have any cool Underdark rings and am just using the personalized armor pen ones that I made forever ago. Nothing is reinforced or jeweled.

Weapon set is Elemental Fire at epic. Yup, pretty lame, eh? I will probably be replacing with Burning as I'm not prioritizing either Twisted or Relic weapons on this character.

Artifacts are DC sigil as active, which is mythic quality. Stat sticks are orange Tiamat's Orb (for unnecessary set bonus), orange freebie Lantern, and purple Hunter's sigil that I really ought to replace.

Enchants are Radiant or Black Ice in offense slots, Radiant in personal defense slots and Azure on companion defense slots. Nothing over R10, mostly lower than that. Armor is lesser Soulforged (the cheap option) and weapon is currently a T.Plaguefire. Paladins aren't great at spreading PF stacks, but it matches my armor.

Companions:
My summon is an Ambush Drake with Greater Bondings (so R9). This is a stupidly expensive companion, which I got for free (trivia prize) when they were available and nobody was interested in them. I just badly wanted my dragonborn to have this cool drake companion no matter what, and had no idea that it probably made campaigning on my DevOP much easier than it should have been. Still, I've been continuing to play the same way since its debuff has been fixed and not noticed a major difference, so I don't feel like the companion was the only thing that was making my DevOP functional.

As the drake is not a realistic recommendation, I'd suggest an upgraded Sellsword or Con Artist, depending if you'd rather the active bonus of power, or the ring slots.

The other companions on my DevOP are barely worth talking about because they're mostly just whatever I have on my account and not integral to anything. I've never owned an Owlbear Cub. The only damage increase I get from my current active companions is a Slyblade Kobold (+3% against stunned targets). So really, if your OP has better companions than mine, you're already ahead of the game.

Mounts:
I run a 2k power bonus, but hitpoints would work, or crit, or whatever you've got.

Insignias are Wanderer's Fortune, Gladiator's Guile, Protector's Friendship/Camaraderie, and player choice. If you don't need the RP, swap WF with another of your choice. Insignias are just whatever I've picked up that fits those slots, but power or crit are preferable where you can.

Putting it all together:
Nearly everything you do will generate heals passively. You've got your Bond of Virtue and Shield of Faith for a party. If Vow of Enmity isn't working out for you now, see how you feel about Bane. I know it can have targetting issues, but it's a group debuff and not just personal damage and group heals.

Class features: Aura of Courage, Aura of Wisdom (the usual, because it works)
Dailies: Divine Judgement, Shield of Faith, you can use Heroism if you need it
At-wills: Radiant Strike (AoE gap closer and self-buff), Oath Strike (whomp things with your weapon and passively heal while you do it)
Encounters for solo: Templar's Wrath, Burning Light (this is what you keep in a party), Smite

How to do it all wrong:
Whether engaging a group of enemies or a single foe, use Radiant Strike (li'l buff) and cast Divine Judgement unless it would be overkill. If your daily isn't ready, this will take a bit longer, but it's not the end of the world. Templar's Wrath for AoE stun or at least the damage if your target is control-immune. Use the stun window to fully charge Burning Light. Smite whatever has the most hitpoints, and whack things with Oath Strike. If your feats are cooperating to make your encounters ready again and things are not dead or dying, start repeating. If not, use a charge of Divine Call. Sometimes you'll want to release Burning Light early to interrupt an enemy cast, and that's ok too. You're unleashing what you can as burst damage and then hoping all your DoT (which is running from several sources) is enough to finish most things off.

Try to get into position with your companion to have combat advantage as soon as possible in a fight. Avoid telegraphed attacks if you can, or raise your shield. Sanctuary will heal you up quickly while you waddle around trying to avoid hits if you make a serious-but-not-fatal mistake. Keep minions stunned or disoriented as much as possible and avoid letting them get combat advantage against you.

I have never even equipped Relentless Avenger, and only have points in it to be able to assign rank 4 power points. Don't need it. Don't want the hassle.

I don't know what the cause is for Burning Light not generating AP for some people, but the power itself is not bugged and there is a specific interaction at play in the no-AP issue that is not affecting me.
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Comments

  • nic1985nic1985 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 415 Arc User
    Very nice build @beckylunatic, thank you for sharing ! This is very similar to how i used to build my Devotion OP.

    The changes for OP mostly affect Protection, very little impact on the Devotion side.

    Recently ran CN with a DevoOP that does massive heals as well as damages (dps unusually high for the class/build). I looked at combat logs and discovered where all that damages come from. There were 3-6 stacks of Burning Guidance & Healing Warmth (2K - 6K damages/stack) that always multi proc together. I knew Burning Guidance had cool down but it seem to revert back when it didn't have cool down.

    The tanking side of pally definitely took a nerf but I think with adjustments to more defensive stats and defensive encounters, most hard contents (Orcus, FBI, etc...) is still doable with/without decent support.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    nic1985 said:


    The changes for OP mostly affect Protection, very little impact on the Devotion side.

    I agree with this, but there are a lot of people saying that the changes to Vow have utterly ruined their ability to play their DevOP, particularly solo. Thought posting what I run might help.

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  • trzebiat#2067 trzebiat Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    Nice build. I'm still a little bit afraid how Vow change will affect my playstyle, I really like using it when solo, but using TW instead sounds good. I could still keep Vow and use it just for the biggest targets. But what bothers me the most is if Vow is still reliable in single boss fights like Orcus. I stopped using it between bosses anyway and took Divine Touch instead a while ago. On single bosses I always use Bane because nothing beats that 30% buff/debuff.

    You don't have any boons from Maze Engine? The last one is great, it seriously increases already crazy heals. One of the best boons like Burning Guidance.

    Each time I read about getting RI to 60%, every guide that says it makes it look like not a big deal getting there, but doesn't say how to work on this when you're still gearing up. That was a serious problem for me and I had to use bunch of gear with useless stats like deflect and regen until I got the mount with armpen to help with that. An you're also lucky on PC to have that Loyal gear. Shame it's not available on PS4.

    I was recently told by Sharp that Aura of Courage doesn't scale off of OP's HP like stated in the tooltip, I had no idea it was changed and when exactly, was the tooltip changed too in 10.5?
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    You don't have any boons from Maze Engine? The last one is great, it seriously increases already crazy heals. One of the best boons like Burning Guidance.

    I've run through the Maze Engine with six characters so far but the OP isn't one of them. Eventually.... Thanks for the tip though.

    Each time I read about getting RI to 60%, every guide that says it makes it look like not a big deal getting there, but doesn't say how to work on this when you're still gearing up. That was a serious problem for me and I had to use bunch of gear with useless stats like deflect and regen until I got the mount with armpen to help with that. An you're also lucky on PC to have that Loyal gear. Shame it's not available on PS4.

    While gearing up, I do tend to chose gear with armor pen even if the other stats are bad, because it's going to be replaced regardless.

    I'm still pretty attached to the personalized rings, which are a help. And I do hope that a reasonable solution for companion gear for all platforms is announced soon(tm). Lack of companion gear options on consoles is assuredly one of the reasons 60% RI is harder to achieve.

    If you need to do use Dark enchants for arpen, put them on your companion so that the multiplying effect of Bonding amps them up. You can move them around as you wean yourself off. Most of my characters have gone through stages of using Dark/Draconic enchants in offense slots until the pieces come together to be able to switch them for other things.

    I was recently told by Sharp that Aura of Courage doesn't scale off of OP's HP like stated in the tooltip, I had no idea it was changed and when exactly, was the tooltip changed too in 10.5?

    Might not be changed but just something he's got good test data for which proven it doesn't work as stated. I'm not much of a mathematical gamer and basically just throw things together and see if it works. Doing it all wrong, you know?

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  • jaegernljaegernl Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 455 Arc User
    Aura of Courage is affected by the OP's HP, when it comes to the effect for the OP itself. Just ran up to a dummy and tested it with the assistance of the Wizard's Workshop boon.

    However, if it scales off the OP's HP for party members? Who knows.
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  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    jaegernl said:

    Aura of Courage is affected by the OP's HP, when it comes to the effect for the OP itself. Just ran up to a dummy and tested it with the assistance of the Wizard's Workshop boon.

    However, if it scales off the OP's HP for party members? Who knows.

    It scales off the allies HP.
  • trzebiat#2067 trzebiat Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    I don't know why quote doesn't work.

    "I'm still pretty attached to the personalized rings, which are a help. And I do hope that a reasonable solution for companion gear for all platforms is announced soon(tm). Lack of companion gear options on consoles is assuredly one of the reasons 60% RI is harder to achieve."

    I really hope they'll add companion gear on PS4 similar to Loyal, the stats are incredible. We are very limitted here, not only on that but also on other stuff from lockboxes.

    "If you need to do use Dark enchants for arpen, put them on your companion so that the multiplying effect of Bonding amps them up. You can move them around as you wean yourself off. Most of my characters have gone through stages of using Dark/Draconic enchants in offense slots until the pieces come together to be able to switch them for other things."

    I was very lucky to get +5 rising focus and defense so I'm good with rings and I'm working on getting to lvl 25 Jewelcrafting to use personalized gear (3x belt in my case). Thanks to the mount (don't have any other epic mounts) I don't have to use armpen on companion, ~55% RI in combat, 60% with armpen gloves. And with coming double refinement I'll get more from artifacts and gear, and later I'll most likely eventually replace the mount bonus for something else and compensate the difference by using dark, draconic or vicious on higher bondings (currently only R8, soon R9) like you say.

    "I've run through the Maze Engine with six characters so far but the OP isn't one of them. Eventually.... Thanks for the tip though."

    No problem. I couldn't force myself to do all campaigns even on one more character, Dev OP is my main and first character so I'd rather focus on it exclusively. That's probably caused by getting all the content at once on PS4.

    "Might not be changed but just something he's got good test data for which proven it doesn't work as stated. I'm not much of a mathematical gamer and basically just throw things together and see if it works. Doing it all wrong, you know?"

    I'm kind of the opposite. I like theorycrafting and I did a lot of research on Dev OP before I even started playing and now already have some long term goals regarding specific gear. But I'm almost clueless when it comes high lvl enchants and all these hidden or not debuffs etc., greater PF is max I have. And about AoC, it scales from personal HP of those affected by it, not from HP of OP who uses it. When I heard about it I tested it with friend's OP. Disappointing it doesn't work like the tooltip states. @thefabricant thanks for pointing that out.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    I don't know why quote doesn't work.

    I'm guessing you're using a mobile device, which apparently disables a lot of Vanilla's features.

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  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    Beckylunatic,

    Thanks for starting this thread as I was considering doing the same myself, to at least share ideas with other Dev OPs on how they are dealing with the change to VoE. While the change itself was initially VERY annoying, Its definately prompting all of us who love the class to adapt to the challenge of not having its damage boost and healing mechanic at our beck and call. I have to admit it was getting pretty stale with just running with VoE, BoV and either BL or RA on the bar with very little change in the way I was doing business. Its just that it worked so well for solo and light group play (HEs, Skirmishes, and the occassional dungeon run). I would still recommend (and still do use) that rotation for group play as long as folks are careful as to where they place the mark.

    Now regarding solo play. Like you, I took ole senpai Sharp's build and made some small modifications in the Light tree. You hit a real winner for me with TW, BL and Smite rotation. I was testing it up in Cold Run and in SMI the other day after I read your post, and I have to say that things feel like they melt a little bit quicker than it did with my old rotation. I am still keeping RA for solo play as (unlike MANY folks in the game), I appreciate the knockback it gives to the mobs while I concentrate on one opponent at a time. The double stun of TW and BL can make it seem redundant to use it at all, but like I said, I appreciate the knockback when I'm soloing, nevermind the AP gain. Other rotations I've tried soloing are VoE, Divine Touch, and RA or Circle, Cleansing touch, and RA if I know I'll be running across other players and I want to give an assist. The former, I've had excellent results with, hitting divine touch for the light damage but heavy heal while VoE is on its cooldown, the reapply Vow, and repeat.

    Anyways. Great thread and advice. I'm hoping more Dev OPs don't lose hope and share some ideas on what they use. :smile:
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  • ivalen#5787 ivalen Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    This is rock-solid for solo mode and is helping me to approach 2k ilvl as a fresh 70. Thanks.

    I am however wondering how to heal these new epic dungeons. I try changing things up depending on party makeup; when everyone is overgeared I just dps and have fun. But for those cases where I'm supposed to do my job....

    VoE for bosses and Circle of Power for trash? I use Burning Light for my damage-to-healing, Bond of Virtue for the bonded healing. It's that third ability that has me wondering.

    I use AuraCourage always and switch between AuraWisdom and AuraRestoration depending on how much healing I need to hand out.

    Is this a good approach or am I missing something in my Power tree completely that's considered best practice at my level?
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    I'd say that the third encounter is entirely up to you, likewise changing your class features depending on party composition/gear/skill. Circle of Power is pretty lacking on Devotion though, since your party is very unlikely to require yet another boost to heals and they do not share the damage bonus component. Still hard to tell you what would be "best".

    It's good to adapt and not play cookie-cutter if it's not working well for you at the moment. (And that's how to "do it all wrong"!)
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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    @isaintify1

    Tagging you because of your comment in the dev stream question thread. DevOP most certainly doesn't need to suffer with campaigns that take hours due to low damage. You can be a really effective soloist as a DevOP and it shouldn't hurt your party play at all.

    Upgrades to Elliot since the OP was written are legendary Burning artifact weapon set and all enchants to rank 9 or 10 except companion's defense slots (prioritized Radiants on self over any other defensive stat from companion). I'd dearly love to get him a Deepknight Brigandine and the LoLmask... someday. I've switched a couple of minor boons to take some lifesteal for Prism and other boon synergies, mostly only had to give up regen to do it which is no biggie. I also got him an Aberrant Fey Wolf for Assassin's Covenant because I didn't have access to it on any of my account mounts.

    He is still behind on boons due to being a second-stringer character and the most recent campaigns being not alt friendly. I've been working on Maze Engine for him... and a warlock... and backup GWF and HR... cough. Reading about the awesomeness of Healing Warmth, I feel bad about not working on it. :P
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  • isaintify1isaintify1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 414 Arc User
    edited March 2017

    @isaintify1

    Tagging you because of your comment in the dev stream question thread. DevOP most certainly doesn't need to suffer with campaigns that take hours due to low damage. You can be a really effective soloist as a DevOP and it shouldn't hurt your party play at all.

    Upgrades to Elliot since the OP was written are legendary Burning artifact weapon set and all enchants to rank 9 or 10 except companion's defense slots (prioritized Radiants on self over any other defensive stat from companion). I'd dearly love to get him a Deepknight Brigandine and the LoLmask... someday. I've switched a couple of minor boons to take some lifesteal for Prism and other boon synergies, mostly only had to give up regen to do it which is no biggie. I also got him an Aberrant Fey Wolf for Assassin's Covenant because I didn't have access to it on any of my account mounts.

    He is still behind on boons due to being a second-stringer character and the most recent campaigns being not alt friendly. I've been working on Maze Engine for him... and a warlock... and backup GWF and HR... cough. Reading about the awesomeness of Healing Warmth, I feel bad about not working on it. :P

    OP Healadin is a very weak class compared to every other class. Our basically only damage comes from Aura of Courage, Burning Guidance, and Healing Warth(if you have it). Does not matter what build and stats you have if low damage output comes from encounters. Also you do not benefit from Hitpoints in your companions item defense slots, if that was something you were trying to suggest.(Not sure but I just got out of surgery so I am very groggy if that was what you meant). With my offensive companion my main stats sit around 50k power, 10k critical strike, 4k armor pen, and 29k defense. My health is at 152, but as far as I could see your health stat does not affect Aura of Courage that much overall except for in a dungeon where DCs buff Aura of Courage. What do you mean by the "lol-mask", cause it does not sound familiar lol. My build is more so defensive focused so I could get my stats much higher offensively if I wanted but that would mean I would have a harder time tanking orcus.

    I say its damage is low comparable to the other classes, and our other path Protection which even has a much higher damage output. Even DCs can have a higher damage output, if they focus more so on damage based attacks.

    I do appreciate the gesture to help me out but only cryptic can actually do anything related to getting the class (stronger). Even if they just gave us more buffs/debuffs then solo would be easier to do as well, without changing powers dps.

  • damoc#3687 damoc Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    If you wish not to spend hours on campaign zones, drop TW for Vow of Enmity, BL for Relentless avenger, keep Smite, courage and wisdom and fewwwww will it go smoothier.
    I mean if you wish to spend 5 mins instead of 2 on a fight your free to do it but TW stun only lasts marginaly long enough to charge BL and you don't get temp HP from it, RA fill your AP bar far quciker than anithing else and without vow your damage output is so low it's ludicrous. Plus having the vow will auto heal you allowing you to be a little more reckless.
    Of course in a party RA will be replace with BL and Smite by Bond of virtue but for solo content I tried the TW/BL route and it just took a little group of barbarians from Icewind pass to kill me. With the vow/RA combination I wipe them out.
    So you may do it all wrong if you wish but don't claim it's the easy mode.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    Also you do not benefit from Hitpoints in your companions item defense slots, if that was something you were trying to suggest.(Not sure but I just got out of surgery so I am very groggy if that was what you meant).

    Not at all what I meant. Defensive enchants that I have upgraded are personal Radiants, with Azures on companion slots left unranked for now as I didn't feel they'd have nearly as much impact. It was before I got the mount for Covenant. I'd also now consider swapping them for Darks.

    LoLmask is the gear drop from Lostmauth that I can't think of the name and don't want to open another tab to look up. Power/HP and even more HP from Ambush Drake. It just seems like a thing that would suit my personal character really well.

    Wanting your DevOP to be able to tank Orcus definitely strikes me as sacrificing a lot in the respect of offensive capability. Which isn't wrong, but when you build that way and then complain that your damage sucks compared to a more offensively built character, that doesn't point to a problem inherent in the class. You're put together differently in order to achieve other goals.

    I'd also say there's a large gap between being able to match an actual DPS class and simply not needing to spend hours on daily quests without a carry. This build does rely on maximizing all those diverse DoT sources, and rotating at-will, daily, and encounter powers to get as much out of them as I can.

    If you are more interested in convincing the devs to change the class in order to conform to your playstyle than in developing a playstyle that works with the tools given, that's on you.
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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    If you wish not to spend hours on campaign zones, drop TW for Vow of Enmity, BL for Relentless avenger, keep Smite, courage and wisdom and fewwwww will it go smoothier.
    I mean if you wish to spend 5 mins instead of 2 on a fight your free to do it but TW stun only lasts marginaly long enough to charge BL and you don't get temp HP from it, RA fill your AP bar far quciker than anithing else and without vow your damage output is so low it's ludicrous. Plus having the vow will auto heal you allowing you to be a little more reckless.
    Of course in a party RA will be replace with BL and Smite by Bond of virtue but for solo content I tried the TW/BL route and it just took a little group of barbarians from Icewind pass to kill me. With the vow/RA combination I wipe them out.
    So you may do it all wrong if you wish but don't claim it's the easy mode.

    Vow of Enmity was not working for a lot of players at the time this was originally written, due to some changes that were fixed/reverted. The guide was published largely to help players who were struggling with an inability to use Vow at the time.

    If you prefer Vow/RA and it works for you, that's great. This not only works really well for me, it worked really well for other players too at a time when Vow was unreliable. If they've been able to return to a different rotation, and they're happy, that's great. If TW/BL gets you killed, I dunno... not a problem for me.

    I never said I spend hours on campaign zones. I bumped this thread because of another player's complaint that he does.



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  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    Why would you drop BL and TW when campaigns are mob heavy?
  • damoc#3687 damoc Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    ghoulz66 said:

    Why would you drop BL and TW when campaigns are mob heavy?

    well let me explain my choice thusly:
    TW: pro AoE, stun / con: no Temp HP for you, damage so-so
    BL: pro AoE, Heal, Damage ok/ con: charge time
    Vow: pro very good damage increase, Heal / con single target
    RA: pro rush, knock back, high AP gain, damage ok/ con no heal

    When you focus on TW/ BL you have a low damage output on every target which means if you encounter swarms of fragile monsters you must kill quickly this is the set up I would advise. For example the ice mephites in Sea of Moving Ice. If you keep this when you face mobs with some actual meat on them you will slowly burn them all simultanously wich means you will have all of them on you all the time often to the point of loosing HP quicker than you can recover them with BL. Of course I speak for lower end gear strengh.

    On the contrary if you use vow/RA, you will mark a foe you will focus, disperse the others with RA while gaining lots of AP and you will be able to launch DJugement frequently and eliminate your foes one by one while keeping a reasomable self heal through the vow. It may seems as I explain it that you actually take more time since you kill foes one at a time (in the worse case scenario) whereas TW/BL attacks them all but since your kill time is without compatison, you actualy finish them off quickier while progressively lessening the theats instead of eliminating all threats at the same time. This means you will be less strained to stay alive.

    It's exactly like martial arts IRL. Faced against multiple opponents you disable one, then the next, then the next etc etc.

    If our AoE powers had more kick I would totally support the TW/BL route wich is similar to what a CW will do: burn everithing simultanously. They can because they have the means to do so. We don't.
    Of course everything I'm saying applies to lower end gear strengh. Past a certain point you do as you wish.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User

    ghoulz66 said:

    Why would you drop BL and TW when campaigns are mob heavy?

    well let me explain my choice thusly:
    TW: pro AoE, stun / con: no Temp HP for you, damage so-so
    BL: pro AoE, Heal, Damage ok/ con: charge time
    Vow: pro very good damage increase, Heal / con single target
    RA: pro rush, knock back, high AP gain, damage ok/ con no heal

    When you focus on TW/ BL you have a low damage output on every target which means if you encounter swarms of fragile monsters you must kill quickly this is the set up I would advise. For example the ice mephites in Sea of Moving Ice. If you keep this when you face mobs with some actual meat on them you will slowly burn them all simultanously wich means you will have all of them on you all the time often to the point of loosing HP quicker than you can recover them with BL. Of course I speak for lower end gear strengh.

    On the contrary if you use vow/RA, you will mark a foe you will focus, disperse the others with RA while gaining lots of AP and you will be able to launch DJugement frequently and eliminate your foes one by one while keeping a reasomable self heal through the vow. It may seems as I explain it that you actually take more time since you kill foes one at a time (in the worse case scenario) whereas TW/BL attacks them all but since your kill time is without compatison, you actualy finish them off quickier while progressively lessening the theats instead of eliminating all threats at the same time. This means you will be less strained to stay alive.

    It's exactly like martial arts IRL. Faced against multiple opponents you disable one, then the next, then the next etc etc.

    If our AoE powers had more kick I would totally support the TW/BL route wich is similar to what a CW will do: burn everithing simultanously. They can because they have the means to do so. We don't.
    Of course everything I'm saying applies to lower end gear strengh. Past a certain point you do as you wish.
    Been using TW/BL/RA for the river district.

    Healing isn't a real huge issue for solo with justice. You can pretty much CC most mobs to death before they can land heavy hits.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    I use TW/Smite/RA for soloing on my prot pally. I like smite as it's fast & has a v. low cooldown and deals aoe damage to foes near the primary target. I use RA for a similar reason, hits hard and fast & my daily usually charges up every ~10 seconds.

    I only switch to BL in groups due to the knockback from RA. Generally things are dead long before I can charge/get off 9 ticks from BL both in and out of groups unless they are low level.

    I truly wish they'd change the knockback to a knockdown. We requested this on the preview thread before they landed the last load of changes on us but unlike the DC thread, they basically just ignored us after their initial post.

    The positive from BL is the stun, I have increased control so using TW and BL with a small gap between them I can keep mobs stunned most of the time, protecting the party more.
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  • mazdaguy80#8291 mazdaguy80 Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    Would just like to thank beckylunatic for sharing his/her build.

    I've been running a similar build, which I based entirely off his/hers and I have been turning heads in my guild and alliance, to the point that everyone wants to know what the hell... no one expects a healer to top damage charts, and healing charts at the same time.

    How:

    1. Tiamat, I average over 100m dmg. My last Tiamat, I was 2nd in Paingiver, at 132m...
    2. Master Demo, I average 40m (not comparable to well-played GWFs, but a Healing class showing up in the top 5 paingivers is always impressive)
    3. Number of other things, being top dps is several dungeons where packs of enemies are common such as: eTos, Valindra, Malabog's, etc...
    4. Being able to tank Tier 1 dungeons, while also being top in Healing, and Damage.

    All of this considering I'm currently only 2870 iLvl and often outdps players that are 1k+ more iLvl than me.

    So thank you beckylunatic, you are awesome for sharing.


    Now, I'd like to add-on to this build...

    In your guide, you decided to choose Regeneration over Lifesteal whenever given the choice... I've been thinking about it, and after reading about this build,
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1227654/gathornias-shadowknight-build-op-protection-dps-focused

    I think we could push the enveloppe even further in terms of DMG output... if we choose Lifesteal over Regeneration.

    My thinking behind this is how lifesteal is affected by Bond of Virtue's shared healing and Prism, which in turn can cause both Burning Guidance, and Healing Warmth to proc.

    I plan on testing this theory tonight, and if I'm correct, I should be seeing even higher numbers than what I'm currently seeing... not that what I'm seeing now is low by any means..
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User


    Now, I'd like to add-on to this build...

    In your guide, you decided to choose Regeneration over Lifesteal whenever given the choice... I've been thinking about it, and after reading about this build,
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1227654/gathornias-shadowknight-build-op-protection-dps-focused

    This is something I am also seriously considering. Respeccing just to change a couple of boons is such a pain in the backside... sigh. Lol.

    (Her build, but it's not that important to me to correct people if they get it wrong either.)

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  • mazdaguy80#8291 mazdaguy80 Member Posts: 14 Arc User

    If you wish not to spend hours on campaign zones, drop TW for Vow of Enmity, BL for Relentless avenger, keep Smite, courage and wisdom and fewwwww will it go smoothier.
    I mean if you wish to spend 5 mins instead of 2 on a fight your free to do it but TW stun only lasts marginaly long enough to charge BL and you don't get temp HP from it, RA fill your AP bar far quciker than anithing else and without vow your damage output is so low it's ludicrous. Plus having the vow will auto heal you allowing you to be a little more reckless.
    Of course in a party RA will be replace with BL and Smite by Bond of virtue but for solo content I tried the TW/BL route and it just took a little group of barbarians from Icewind pass to kill me. With the vow/RA combination I wipe them out.
    So you may do it all wrong if you wish but don't claim it's the easy mode.

    Vow of Enmity was not working for a lot of players at the time this was originally written, due to some changes that were fixed/reverted. The guide was published largely to help players who were struggling with an inability to use Vow at the time.

    If you prefer Vow/RA and it works for you, that's great. This not only works really well for me, it worked really well for other players too at a time when Vow was unreliable. If they've been able to return to a different rotation, and they're happy, that's great. If TW/BL gets you killed, I dunno... not a problem for me.

    I never said I spend hours on campaign zones. I bumped this thread because of another player's complaint that he does.

    My solo encounters are exactly the same as when I'm grouped:

    BoV/VoE/BL

    You could argue that BoV is a waste when soloing, but I don't think so, when your companion almost never dies, and causes shared healing to proc, which also causes our powerful boons to proc. If you use a Melee companion, this will proc alot. Plus, you don't have any downtime if you run into a Heroic Encounter, since you don't have to switch one of your encounters, so you can get the extra damage from the BoV shared healing.

    Note: "Smite" is nice spike damage, I agree, but it doesn't compare to the damage you get for having BoV on. Those BG/HW procs are truly something else.

    VoE makes you not die. When you take this Encounter off, it's much, much harder to stay alive.. especially when you're in SoMI, and soloing a whole pirate ship of Frost Giants... but maybe that's my own fault for over-extending.... lol

    Blinding light is not only good for the AoE damage, but it's a great way to gain AP. While this encounter doesn't generate as much AP as RA, RA's knockback doesn't justify the AP gain, and I feel like it actually slows down your soloing ability...
  • damoc#3687 damoc Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    while you don't have HWarmth yet BG is insufficent to warrant focusing only on proccing it. Following the advices I currently roll with VoE/RA/BL having VoE/BL to stay alive, RA/BL for AP generation and having RA buying me the time I need to charge BL.
    Big damage comes from Jugement anyway when all the stars align (ring, companion gift, Judge, still active Vow, combat advantage and crit) Of course with so many factors, it's no wonder I can see such a variation between low-end of almost 40k to the top one of 180k in solo adventures.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    One thing I would say (and I'm guilty of doing it myself) If you spam your Daily a lot then having 5 points in Prism is a waste. Three points means 12 seconds of Prism and most reasonably geared pallies should be able to achieve this.

    The other two can go into either Purifying Fire for an extra bit of damage or Beacon of Hope for more heal triggers for Prism.
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