From the parsing I've done, I've come to the same conclusion as Sume has, basicly, but from a different - Trapper vs. Combat - standpoint. Orcus is pretty much pointless for the Trapper, or rather, a low rate of investment. You will, in the vast majority of cases, lose a bit damage when using the Orcus set, for reasons I mentioned in an earlier post: skills/feats not being boosted by Orcus plus losing Dexterity.
In the end, though, it's all moot. The difference in damage I've observed from parses are still fully attributable to margins of error. Overall, the pie-chart might shift a little - percentage down on Thorned Roots, a percentage up on skills affected by Orcus - but really nothing interesting. If anything, the parses showed little to no difference in total output between the two sets. As I expected, in high-buff parties, Orcus performed a little better, because it helps with burst from Direct Damage application. Once the run slows down, the Lostmauth set will start performing a tiny bit better because of the boost in Dexterity.
Myself, I *did* switch to Orcus set because an increasing part of my damage comes from Direct Damage - I do speed runs - and I've been seeing the percentage done by Thorned Roots drop steadily as we managed to decrease our time in runs. I'd say, though, outside of those speed run conditions, a Dexterity Belt and even Lostmauth should outperform the Orcus set by the tiniest amount.
Concluding: High investment cost, little - and very situational - gain for the Trapper HR.
Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
We have looked into reports of players experiencing connection problems and have been unable to identify any server, data center, or client-side issues. We believe this may be ISP related.
Because I forsee us probably arguing in a long flame bait thread which would probably get this useful thread locked, I'm going to point out the little semantics that the smartHAMSTER in me wanted to point out.
It's generally agreed once they fix the Orcus set to proc on our powers, it'll be BiS. Until then, we'll continue slugging it out between Dex belt and Orcus Set bonus. Maybe the answer is to have both?
so I did go with the orcus set. but it's been so laggy since 2xrp started that I am hesistant to come to any kind of conclusion. I always do terribad when i'm feeling the lag. and I did do some runs alternating with the plus4 dex and orcus and they were pretty close but both far worse than I normally do.
but i'm wondering given the talk about thorned roots and orcus.. I wonder how the high crit build would go with the orcus set. I can't remember which you're supposed to take a pass on the thorned roots or the aspect of the serpent feat but it seems like if you're supposed to take a pass on the roots then maybe the higher crit sev along with the set might make a difference?
I decided to stay combat for the foreseeable, so I'm going with the orcus set also, will have to wait till the next double rp however, so don't hold your breath.☺
Gushing Wound and Careful Attack don't benefit from the Orcus Set. As Well as Thorned Roots, so again a few of our most important features don't benefit from it. @rjc9000
So, I opted to go Dex belt instead of LM set this double RP event, but didn't destroy the LM set. I think the damage increase won't be enough to say objectively which is better, but I don't feel like it went down. The biggest change, however, was going to a new necklace. I was able to increase several defense stats by not using the LM necklace. So, that alone made it worth it in my mind.
yeah that's where I was coming from too. I have enough arpen already so it was just stealing from whatever new stats I'd be able to pick up. I would have liked to keep my lm set too but I didn't. I figured the dex belt would be good enough for keeping a dex stat option if I needed it and I also had convinced myself that dex and lm were close enough in damage where if the orcus set did end up handicapping me I'd be ok still by switching back to dex. it would be really nice if they fixed the set for us. lol. @dmcewen the part that really hurts is that it doesn't seem like they are doing it on purpose. it's bugs they refuse to fix. if thorned roots and other things weren't bugged it would be viable for us too.
I put the Orcus Set in my bank for now... equipping the Valhalla Set now as there is Dex on there... I have not noticed a drop in dps I even now have more Crit instead.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
I put the Orcus Set in my bank for now... equipping the Valhalla Set now as there is Dex on there... I have not noticed a drop in dps I even now have more Crit instead.
I like the stats (nice HP) provided with the set but it offers nothing more. The drop of 2 Dex is marginal as is the increase in Con. I recently stacked Con instead of Wis when a trapper (PvP) which amounts to nearly what a Arti provides. This Valhalla would be good for a Combat or Trapper in PvP, just the bonus is HAMSTER.
Compare how GWFs keep their self buffs, CWs their chill stacks/ HB SWs their flames of empowerment and needing to curse and placing their pillar on an optimal location before every single attack with say, a stormwardden trapper hunter ranger, like no offense, that's far from the hardest class in the game, endlessly spamming encounters with virtually no cooldown isn't something terribly skilled to do plus the damage output is extreme in relation to the ease use and that's the reason I've seen, like people who play on othe platforms have done (@defiantone99 on pc for example), that most times a top tier HR gets topped in damage is from a GWF and that's if he/she is uber geared, BiS and flawlessly does the rotations.
Great, someone rolls into a thread with absolutely zero idea of how to play a Ranger properly. GG.
First off, HR isn't just about Q E R Tab. It's way more than that. Proper management of Aspect of the Serpent, distance to target to buff yourself *and the team* through Longstriders, proper rotation, being able to switch rotation to serve the team's needs on the fly while still making sure you properly manage Aspect of the Serpent, and all of this as quickly as possible to maximize your output. Doing all that correctly and as fast as humanly possible - keyboard starts smoking - is what sets the high-end rangers apart from the Q E R Tab peasants.
You might not know this, but the Encounters we spam are not the majority of our damage. Also, a piece of advice: Don't listen to Defiant. He's a terrible player with an even worse attitude and a subscription to tin-foil hat delivery.
Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
We have looked into reports of players experiencing connection problems and have been unable to identify any server, data center, or client-side issues. We believe this may be ISP related.
Compare how GWFs keep their self buffs, CWs their chill stacks/ HB SWs their flames of empowerment and needing to curse and placing their pillar on an optimal location before every single attack with say, a stormwardden trapper hunter ranger, like no offense, that's far from the hardest class in the game, endlessly spamming encounters with virtually no cooldown isn't something terribly skilled to do plus the damage output is extreme in relation to the ease use and that's the reason I've seen, like people who play on othe platforms have done (@defiantone99 on pc for example), that most times a top tier HR gets topped in damage is from a GWF and that's if he/she is uber geared, BiS and flawlessly does the rotations.
Well done, you've formed an opinion about Hunter Ranger Trappers without - obviously - playing one properly. If you think it's just about spamming Encounters, you haven't done it right.
Also, piece of advice: Don't ever listen to Defiant. He's a terrible player with an even worse attitude and a subscription to tin-foil hat delivery.
@jaegernl If you compare to the other classes then yes, it (stormwarden trapper HR) is the clossest to being an encounter spammer by a long shot and yes, I do know that you need to do use the powers in a certain order but that doesn't change that it's still simpler than the other classes yet the damage output is way too good. You could argue that some players don't use an optimal rotation and I guess that's what your reply to me is based upon, ins't it? I agree the key/button smashing (encounter spam) is real though, that's the reason I stood away from my first toon and plan on will never going back to it, not as a trapper.
As for @defiantone99, disagreeing with him on some opinions does not mean that all and every single of his should be automatically considered wrong, he made a valid point either here or on another threads I think, good HRs can compete with GWFs. Anyway, I don't think asking to ignore someone is a good piece advice, it's what the person says at the moment what matters as you reply accordingly.
Compare how GWFs keep their self buffs, CWs their chill stacks/ HB SWs their flames of empowerment and needing to curse and placing their pillar on an optimal location before every single attack with say, a stormwardden trapper hunter ranger, like no offense, that's far from the hardest class in the game, endlessly spamming encounters with virtually no cooldown isn't something terribly skilled to do plus the damage output is extreme in relation to the ease use and that's the reason I've seen, like people who play on othe platforms have done (@defiantone99 on pc for example), that most times a top tier HR gets topped in damage is from a GWF and that's if he/she is uber geared, BiS and flawlessly does the rotations.
Well done, you've formed an opinion about Hunter Ranger Trappers without - obviously - playing one properly. If you think it's just about spamming Encounters, you haven't done it right.
Also, piece of advice: Don't ever listen to Defiant. He's a terrible player with an even worse attitude and a subscription to tin-foil hat delivery.
lol see point proven. for all the massive damage dealers out there who do it right.. there are a lot more who don't...
@thefiresidecat That can go for any dps class, don't really see what your point is. Some of the most powerful dps I've run with are trapper HRs with trans dread, they usuall stomp the rest of classes, having virtually no cooldwons for encounters is something that should be looked at and then it would be a good moment to fix PG and other bugs, that would put the trapper HR at a reasonable level so pve players don't feel forced to run it for max dps, archery and combat could get some more love for pve.
Contact the most powerful non trapper HR/non GWF you know and I will try to contact one of the HRs I've run with then let's get them in a group to see who beats who.
@kreatyve is there anyway to keep these kinds of threads on point? I think they're valuable and it doesn't help when people come in with the my epeen is bigger than your epeen or why is your epeen so big.. make it smaller! type comments when we're just trying to sort things out on what works best for us.
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
@kreatyve is there anyway to keep these kinds of threads on point? I think they're valuable and it doesn't help when people come in with the my epeen is bigger than your epeen or why is your epeen so big.. make it smaller! type comments when we're just trying to sort things out on what works best for us.
Cleaned the thread up of anything that appeared to be flaming or off the original topic of sets. I may have missed a comment or two, flag them if so. In the future, please utilize the flag button. Thanks.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
@jaegernl , what do you mean by "encounters are not the majority of our damage?". I agree on a combat but on a trapper encounters (I include roots into encounters as roots are applied by encounters) are the majority of our damage. If you don't consider roots as encounters then I understand (roots alone are usually around 35% for me in dungeons).
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Comments
From the parsing I've done, I've come to the same conclusion as Sume has, basicly, but from a different - Trapper vs. Combat - standpoint. Orcus is pretty much pointless for the Trapper, or rather, a low rate of investment. You will, in the vast majority of cases, lose a bit damage when using the Orcus set, for reasons I mentioned in an earlier post: skills/feats not being boosted by Orcus plus losing Dexterity.
In the end, though, it's all moot. The difference in damage I've observed from parses are still fully attributable to margins of error. Overall, the pie-chart might shift a little - percentage down on Thorned Roots, a percentage up on skills affected by Orcus - but really nothing interesting. If anything, the parses showed little to no difference in total output between the two sets. As I expected, in high-buff parties, Orcus performed a little better, because it helps with burst from Direct Damage application. Once the run slows down, the Lostmauth set will start performing a tiny bit better because of the boost in Dexterity.
Myself, I *did* switch to Orcus set because an increasing part of my damage comes from Direct Damage - I do speed runs - and I've been seeing the percentage done by Thorned Roots drop steadily as we managed to decrease our time in runs. I'd say, though, outside of those speed run conditions, a Dexterity Belt and even Lostmauth should outperform the Orcus set by the tiniest amount.
Concluding: High investment cost, little - and very situational - gain for the Trapper HR.
but i'm wondering given the talk about thorned roots and orcus.. I wonder how the high crit build would go with the orcus set. I can't remember which you're supposed to take a pass on the thorned roots or the aspect of the serpent feat but it seems like if you're supposed to take a pass on the roots then maybe the higher crit sev along with the set might make a difference?
You're right, forgive me.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
.. Teucer (HR) / Maximus Decimus (DC) .. GT: ApexDemon
.. Teucer (HR) / Maximus Decimus (DC) .. GT: ApexDemon
First off, HR isn't just about Q E R Tab. It's way more than that. Proper management of Aspect of the Serpent, distance to target to buff yourself *and the team* through Longstriders, proper rotation, being able to switch rotation to serve the team's needs on the fly while still making sure you properly manage Aspect of the Serpent, and all of this as quickly as possible to maximize your output. Doing all that correctly and as fast as humanly possible - keyboard starts smoking - is what sets the high-end rangers apart from the Q E R Tab peasants.
You might not know this, but the Encounters we spam are not the majority of our damage. Also, a piece of advice: Don't listen to Defiant. He's a terrible player with an even worse attitude and a subscription to tin-foil hat delivery.
Cleaned the thread up of anything that appeared to be flaming or off the original topic of sets. I may have missed a comment or two, flag them if so. In the future, please utilize the flag button. Thanks.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80