Way I see it, if you join a group of people you don't know for content, you have to expect that they're not all going to want to run the same play style, items or enchants/runstones. If it's such a big no-no the guy should have made his own group and micro-inspected people so it wouldn't bother him later. Raging at someone for not conforming to the norm is just a waste of time and pretty childish. I like bondings for my TR because i'm built for maximum dps and little to no support/control, but i'm not going brow-beat someone into using them if they dont want to.
We have private queues so theres no excuse now, if people want to play elitist and only take on team members with bondings and 4k item levels or whatever, then they have the facility to arrange it that way, if the guys pugging instead then hes got to expect that people will vary in playstyle and preference.
Listen though... do you hear that? They are on the move, things will be changing soon...
Seriously though I have loyal companion gear on my augments. Tested it with my non augments, and because my bondings are just over lesser granting me like 35% of my companions bonuses, even if I put them on a non augment that could be buffed by others and whatnot. My power rating will not be more than 5% different than it is now. The effectiveness of bonding increases exponentially once you go beyond the greater range into perfect and rank 12.
As is I'm better off with them on my augments.
Would I invest in more power by getting higher rank bondings just so I can proc 4000x3 plus enchantment stats 700x3 x2 into my chatacter?
No no no because I don't feel that these companions will always transfer this to the player.
It's too much of an increase in stats, when things are too good to be true, they often are not true.
You're forgetting about Protector's buffs from Mount insignia, losing out on another 16-22% power and defense increase or so (1 of each kind +)
0
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,090Arc User
Anyone that wants to tell me how I should be playing my character better be supplying me with the stuff they think I have to have.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
10
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
I hate the way things are right now. bondings are the superior thing to use. They need to rework the other runestones to function in the same way as bondings to give people more choice. and also buff augments by either raising their stats (the simple solution) or give them ALOT stronger summoned bonuses compared to non-augments.
I hate the way things are right now. bondings are the superior thing to use. They need to rework the other runestones to function in the same way as bondings to give people more choice.
I agree that there isn't balance between the augment route and the bonding route. Those should be two viable paths with trade-offs. Other than very specialized builds, bondings are always the right choice.
I hate the way things are right now. bondings are the superior thing to use. They need to rework the other runestones to function in the same way as bondings to give people more choice. and also buff augments by either raising their stats (the simple solution) or give them ALOT stronger summoned bonuses compared to non-augments.
I have totally forgotten about 'other runestones' and that they actually have numbers on them other than their RP value. Good point.
0
lonewolfmk1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
Some time ago i got kicked out of a channel (i think Zerg channel it was called) when its admin Dimitry noticed, that i was using a cat with my 4k gf (who is pretty much BIS, but only with some rank 8 stuff in the support slots). Well it was his loss i guess, since i have been playing this game since its release and even wrote a 12 pages guide on pwe/pvp GFs (which became obsolet with mod 6). I have actually 1 legendary mount and an old 4k AP epic axebeak on him (one for pve, one for pvp), mostly epic insignias, all boons, etc. So even if i am not playing as much as i used to, i am fairly certain that i know how to build and play a GF.
The thing is, i could easily afford rank 12 bondings (and indeed have them on my 3.7k cw, which hasnt seen much use lately due to getting bored with this game for the last couple of mods), but there are some reason why i dont do that.
Firstly and most importantly, that cat belongs to my GF. I made the efford to write a several pages long backstory on him and that cat (Mauser) has pretty much its own chapter. Also it might be one of the oldest cats still around, considering i got it pretty early after the game release (got a blue belt dropped, that sold a bit shy of 1 mio ad (i think it had 266 power and 133 arpen... those where the times) and bought the cat with that). And it accounted for an unholy amount of dragon/deamon/beholder etc. kills in Legends of the sword coast! Its also upgraded to legendary, just for the heck of it!
Secondly, i usually focus on pvp with my GF, though right now its build for pve until i get my relic weapons on legendary (13 msva runs without sup mark drops and counting...).
Thirdly, a GF at such a high gear level dosent really benefit all that much from bondings, due to the 80% defense cap and the rework of itf. Additional recovery is almost useless, once you can keep itf constantly up and all offensive stats are useless, because you are a tank (though at a high level, a GF can easily still do enough damage to solo any solo content). The one stat that is usefull to boost is deflect, which is not an all to great stat in pve, because if you die, you usually die from onehits and deflect dosent protect dependable against those.
tldr; play with what you like best, a good built and skill are more important than bondings, and you can complete any content this game has to offer without them.
4
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
@lonewolfmk1 "I got kicked out of a channel (i think Zerg channel it was called) when its admin [name deleted] noticed, that i was using a cat with my 4k gf " First, disrespecting a venerated Caturday survivor should be a NW crime punished with 12 hours of Lonelywood fishing. Second, who kicks a 4K tank for not bonding? That doesn't even make sense. Unless you brought the GF on for DPS (another can of worms), why would you care if the GF is Bonded or not? 70% DR with a cat or 110% with 3*R12 bondings... matters a lite to the GF but no affect to the party at all.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
1
lonewolfmk1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
Thirdly, a GF at such a high gear level dosent really benefit all that much from bondings, due to the 80% defense cap and the rework of itf. Additional recovery is almost useless, once you can keep itf constantly up and all offensive stats are useless, because you are a tank (though at a high level, a GF can easily still do enough damage to solo any solo content). The one stat that is usefull to boost is deflect, which is not an all to great stat in pve, because if you die, you usually die from onehits and deflect dosent protect dependable against those.
tldr; play with what you like best, a good built and skill are more important than bondings, and you can complete any content this game has to offer without them.
Bondings are still better for tanks because it allows you to use debuff companions like Con Artist. Also, some mobs/bosses have arp so ideally you should hit 95% DR. Not worth kicking anyone over but still better.
From a DC perspective, bonding isnt a must on me but is a must on my teammate for me. If a dps char cannot outdps a support DC (me) at equal il, then either he should learn or upgrade or delete his char. No point supporting dpser that cant dps especially they are higher il than u, right?
I wanted to reply , considering i do not agree with what was done to demon and how people acted. ( skipped pages 3 to 5 since you guys are going into it and i have nothing to add there ) To be honest i never saw anyone yell at people for not having bondings rank 12. Be it dmg dealers, tanks or healers.
I did see people yelling at the cleric for not using AA ( it was so fun not to do it i just could not help it , take that people who run ahead without a Cleric and a Pally ! )
Regarding the " elastication ", at the first boss. AA should have saved your Pali and that silly person , if they dieded that is on cleric. Even if they managed to hit each other , AA should have kept them alive. I know since i get yelled at for this, a LOT! Especially if the ranged classes do not get into the range of my AA and they die.
I would love to show you some of my guildmates who run without bondings. They are amazing. They do not need it. And no one ever tells them what to do.
Regarding nerfing bondings , well, i do not have an opinion regarding this yet.
I wanted to reply , considering i do not agree with what was done to demon and how people acted. ( skipped pages 3 to 5 since you guys are going into it and i have nothing to add there ) To be honest i never saw anyone yell at people for not having bondings rank 12. Be it dmg dealers, tanks or healers.
I did see people yelling at the cleric for not using AA ( it was so fun not to do it i just could not help it , take that people who run ahead without a Cleric and a Pally ! )
Regarding the " elastication ", at the first boss. AA should have saved your Pali and that silly person , if they dieded that is on cleric. Even if they managed to hit each other , AA should have kept them alive. I know since i get yelled at for this, a LOT! Especially if the ranged classes do not get into the range of my AA and they die.
I would love to show you some of my guildmates who run without bondings. They are amazing. They do not need it. And no one ever tells them what to do.
Regarding nerfing bondings , well, i do not have an opinion regarding this yet.
Best regards,
Even HG should save a Paladin and GF.
My favorite are the DPS that run ahead of the tank and DC in the hallway with the Balor then get one hit and spam shift+f1.
From a DC perspective, bonding isnt a must is a must on my teammate for me. If a dps char cannot outdps a support DC (me) at equal il, then either he should learn or upgrade or delete his char. No point supporting dpser that cant dps especially they are higher il than u, right?
They're still nice for the extra recovery and well debuff comps really do make runs faster.
My favorite are the DPS that run ahead of the tank and DC in the hallway with the Balor then get one hit and spam shift+f1.
It is even better when they blame you for it. Like : " You where too slow ! Where is the cleric ! I died , what kind of a cleric are you ! "
I tend to take revenge on people like that... i let them do it again and again, without saying anything. And then when they need a heal.. ups.. there is no heal. I pm pallies as well , to co-op with my amazing plans. No one ever refused . lol
Boundings are fine. I dont want the time back, when you saw all ppl with the same augment. They need to rework some buffs/debuffs from companions. Thats all.
Post edited by spideymt on
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
all people wore for two years were augments, things changed.. if they made augments match.. everyone would just go back to them.. they never die, never get hurt, ect.
BTW, I call foul on the zerg impact thingy.. Ive been in that channel.. they dont even have as half the rules as some of the other zerg channels.. Never heard of anything like that before ever.. it is still a zerg channel.. but still, it requires far less and is far more lax then the other ones I am in..
Arcane Empowered Eldritch Profane Training Indomitable Serene Bonding
It's a sad state of affairs that one out of the whole group so overpowers all of the others. Granted, bondings only come with companions, so they are much harder to get. Nevertheless, they are out there in sufficient quantities from the Winter Festival that people expect them. Clearly the way that runestones work needs to be rethought.
I have to agree with the sentiment about augments. For ages I ran with a chicken augment, but finally (and only just recently) I broke down and switched to a companion (though the chicken is still in an active slot). The difference in damage output was just too great. There should be benefits and tradeoffs to either approach, but instead we've swung from one extreme to the other.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Augments will cap at 151 with legendary status companion + R12 eldritches. Realistically, though, you're probably going to just get R9s which is 9.5% x 3, so 128.5% and leave your companion at non-legendary and put that money towards bonding stones.
Once you get bondings to greater (50%) x 3, you're clearly in a better spot, and it only gets better from there.
300% > 151% (assuming a legendary companion), so the math speaks for itself. It's pretty obvious. (for the math-challenged, that's twice as effective).
But for the budget build for people just starting out? Yeah, augments do just fine.
I'd argue you don't NEED 3 R12 bondings to succeed at endgame and can do fine at 150+ (so either a really good augment or 3 greater bondings), but it's definitely a help. Also keep in mind some fights in which your companion will die to AoE alot, augments will win out. 151% > 0%
0
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
@aaramis75 "300% > 151% (assuming a legendary companion), so the math speaks for itself. It's pretty obvious. (for the math-challenged, that's twice as effective). But for the budget build for people just starting out? Yeah, augments do just fine." The song "If I only had a brain" from The Wizard of Oz comes to mind (pun intended). (What was the guy who sang that made of?) No one, condescendingly "math challenged" or not, suggested augments are better then bonding. Spurious argument. The OP was lamenting the exclusion and ostrification of those who do not use or cannot afford r12 bonding.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Comments
We have private queues so theres no excuse now, if people want to play elitist and only take on team members with bondings and 4k item levels or whatever, then they have the facility to arrange it that way, if the guys pugging instead then hes got to expect that people will vary in playstyle and preference.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
The thing is, i could easily afford rank 12 bondings (and indeed have them on my 3.7k cw, which hasnt seen much use lately due to getting bored with this game for the last couple of mods), but there are some reason why i dont do that.
Firstly and most importantly, that cat belongs to my GF. I made the efford to write a several pages long backstory on him and that cat (Mauser) has pretty much its own chapter. Also it might be one of the oldest cats still around, considering i got it pretty early after the game release (got a blue belt dropped, that sold a bit shy of 1 mio ad (i think it had 266 power and 133 arpen... those where the times) and bought the cat with that). And it accounted for an unholy amount of dragon/deamon/beholder etc. kills in Legends of the sword coast! Its also upgraded to legendary, just for the heck of it!
Secondly, i usually focus on pvp with my GF, though right now its build for pve until i get my relic weapons on legendary (13 msva runs without sup mark drops and counting...).
Thirdly, a GF at such a high gear level dosent really benefit all that much from bondings, due to the 80% defense cap and the rework of itf. Additional recovery is almost useless, once you can keep itf constantly up and all offensive stats are useless, because you are a tank (though at a high level, a GF can easily still do enough damage to solo any solo content). The one stat that is usefull to boost is deflect, which is not an all to great stat in pve, because if you die, you usually die from onehits and deflect dosent protect dependable against those.
tldr; play with what you like best, a good built and skill are more important than bondings, and you can complete any content this game has to offer without them.
"I got kicked out of a channel (i think Zerg channel it was called) when its admin [name deleted] noticed, that i was using a cat with my 4k gf "
First, disrespecting a venerated Caturday survivor should be a NW crime punished with 12 hours of Lonelywood fishing.
Second, who kicks a 4K tank for not bonding? That doesn't even make sense. Unless you brought the GF on for DPS (another can of worms), why would you care if the GF is Bonded or not? 70% DR with a cat or 110% with 3*R12 bondings... matters a lite to the GF but no affect to the party at all.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
( skipped pages 3 to 5 since you guys are going into it and i have nothing to add there )
To be honest i never saw anyone yell at people for not having bondings rank 12.
Be it dmg dealers, tanks or healers.
I did see people yelling at the cleric for not using AA
( it was so fun not to do it i just could not help it , take that people who run ahead without a Cleric and a Pally ! )
Regarding the " elastication ", at the first boss.
AA should have saved your Pali and that silly person , if they dieded that is on cleric.
Even if they managed to hit each other , AA should have kept them alive.
I know since i get yelled at for this, a LOT!
Especially if the ranged classes do not get into the range of my AA and they die.
I would love to show you some of my guildmates who run without bondings. They are amazing.
They do not need it. And no one ever tells them what to do.
Regarding nerfing bondings , well, i do not have an opinion regarding this yet.
Best regards,
My favorite are the DPS that run ahead of the tank and DC in the hallway with the Balor then get one hit and spam shift+f1. They're still nice for the extra recovery and well debuff comps really do make runs faster.
Like : " You where too slow ! Where is the cleric ! I died , what kind of a cleric are you ! "
I tend to take revenge on people like that... i let them do it again and again, without saying anything. And then when they need a heal.. ups.. there is no heal. I pm pallies as well , to co-op with my amazing plans. No one ever refused . lol
BTW, I call foul on the zerg impact thingy.. Ive been in that channel.. they dont even have as half the rules as some of the other zerg channels.. Never heard of anything like that before ever.. it is still a zerg channel.. but still, it requires far less and is far more lax then the other ones I am in..
YES BONDINGS ARE A MUST.
There.
I have made my proclamation.
This thread can be closed now that I have spoken.
Arcane
Empowered
Eldritch
Profane
Training
Indomitable
Serene
Bonding
It's a sad state of affairs that one out of the whole group so overpowers all of the others. Granted, bondings only come with companions, so they are much harder to get. Nevertheless, they are out there in sufficient quantities from the Winter Festival that people expect them. Clearly the way that runestones work needs to be rethought.
I have to agree with the sentiment about augments. For ages I ran with a chicken augment, but finally (and only just recently) I broke down and switched to a companion (though the chicken is still in an active slot). The difference in damage output was just too great. There should be benefits and tradeoffs to either approach, but instead we've swung from one extreme to the other.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Once you get bondings to greater (50%) x 3, you're clearly in a better spot, and it only gets better from there.
300% > 151% (assuming a legendary companion), so the math speaks for itself. It's pretty obvious.
(for the math-challenged, that's twice as effective).
But for the budget build for people just starting out? Yeah, augments do just fine.
I'd argue you don't NEED 3 R12 bondings to succeed at endgame and can do fine at 150+ (so either a really good augment or 3 greater bondings), but it's definitely a help. Also keep in mind some fights in which your companion will die to AoE alot, augments will win out. 151% > 0%
"300% > 151% (assuming a legendary companion), so the math speaks for itself. It's pretty obvious. (for the math-challenged, that's twice as effective). But for the budget build for people just starting out? Yeah, augments do just fine."
The song "If I only had a brain" from The Wizard of Oz comes to mind (pun intended).
(What was the guy who sang that made of?)
No one, condescendingly "math challenged" or not, suggested augments are better then bonding. Spurious argument.
The OP was lamenting the exclusion and ostrification of those who do not use or cannot afford r12 bonding.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.