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Key changes->Displeased players->Suggestion about VIP status

dolreydolrey Member Posts: 741 Arc User
edited January 2017 in Player Feedback (PC)
Hello :) You know that many players recently have been writing their opinions about how farm of keys is "grindy". And it is easy to understand this position because for example players who haven't ended yet farm of new weapons now should create many hundreds of keys. So, here I would like to create a separate thread about one interesting suggestion from @silverkelt.

Its not the key change itself, its how grindy it is to get keys, just put keys into VIP ranks (higher then 12) to allow us to run dungeons , in return to buying more vip options..)

That is all that needs to be done and everyone would be more or less satisfied.

I like this idea. I am also think that it would be nice to add one universal key into VIP rewards that players can get once per day. I think it will help to many players in the following situations:
1) If someone spend not so much time in game and he or she has not enough time to farm the keys.
2) If someone still haven't completed campaigns and he or she has no free campaign resources.
3) If someone doesn't like daily quest system and "grind".

Also I think that this change will make VIP status more popular and more players will buy it. And this change will help to displeased players to come to terms with this new mechanics.

From the other hand only one key will not affect this system too strongly. Because it is only one consumable universal key. And content of campaigns still will be actual for players who like to pass many dungeons every day.

So, sorry for my english and thank you for your attention :)
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Comments

  • vordaynvordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    I would be fairly suprised if they put in a Legendary Dragon key in higher levels of VIP.

    It is a good thought to encourage the purchasing of more VIP levels, but I would think that it would reduce the company's profit in selling the keys.

    They are currently 300 zen for 5 keys (though they said it would be reduced to 250 zen). This equates to 30,000 AD per Legendary Dragon Key at the current ZAX rate.

    That in itself would pay for the cost of VIP per month.

    Again, the idea is good, and would make a lot of players happy, but I would be pleasantly suprised if they did so.

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  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User
    Having to grind for keys, blood, campaign currency, influence.....someone said it before - when are we supposed to play the game? You basically have to predict now what you are going to be doing the next day and grind for those keys. Since all the campaign currency is gated, you basically have to spend a few days grinding currency and making keys, and then have 1 day actually playing the content you want.

    This needs a MAJOR review....I'm not even talking loot (I have spent 5 dragon keys and several other keys since the patch, and really have gotten very little for it...I would have passed on practically all of it). But the grinding for keys...for everything, is just overboard.

    I've never seen a game that made you have to "prepare" to play the basic content. I'm not talking epic raid content, where you have to grind potions and stuff for the next 6-8 hour raid session....I'm talking grind out stuff just so you can actually progress loot wise.

    The keys just need to go. We earned that loot chest. Keep the loot the same (it doesnt appear you did anything to the drop rates at all), and just let players have their earned stuff. Would that really be so bad?
  • andorrabellandorrabell Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 437 Arc User
    vordayn said:

    I would be fairly suprised if they put in a Legendary Dragon key in higher levels of VIP.

    It is a good thought to encourage the purchasing of more VIP levels, but I would think that it would reduce the company's profit in selling the keys.

    They are currently 300 zen for 5 keys (though they said it would be reduced to 250 zen). This equates to 30,000 AD per Legendary Dragon Key at the current ZAX rate.

    That in itself would pay for the cost of VIP per month.

    Again, the idea is good, and would make a lot of players happy, but I would be pleasantly suprised if they did so.

    The only reason i bought the keys is that they guaranteed to be used for something you CHOOSE. I wont be buying them anymore, and in fact I'd like a refund for all the ones I already have... I bought a ton anticipating esva and my drops rates are SO bad I was unable to use most of them.
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,111 Arc User

    Having to grind for keys, blood, campaign currency, influence.....someone said it before - when are we supposed to play the game? You basically have to predict now what you are going to be doing the next day and grind for those keys. Since all the campaign currency is gated, you basically have to spend a few days grinding currency and making keys, and then have 1 day actually playing the content you want.

    This needs a MAJOR review....I'm not even talking loot (I have spent 5 dragon keys and several other keys since the patch, and really have gotten very little for it...I would have passed on practically all of it). But the grinding for keys...for everything, is just overboard.

    I've never seen a game that made you have to "prepare" to play the basic content. I'm not talking epic raid content, where you have to grind potions and stuff for the next 6-8 hour raid session....I'm talking grind out stuff just so you can actually progress loot wise.

    The keys just need to go. We earned that loot chest. Keep the loot the same (it doesnt appear you did anything to the drop rates at all), and just let players have their earned stuff. Would that really be so bad?

    I've run about 6-10 (so not a large sample size by any means) CNs and used a greater demonic key on each run and haven't got anything that, prior to the patch, I would have chosen to use the keys on, all junk (if you include purple salvage as junk).

    However on about every second run someone has got one of the new items, it just hasn't been me. I'm not sure if the new stuff is any good.

    So far I haven't seen anything that makes me think it is worthwhile grinding for keys, and definitely nothing worth buying keys, god no.

    So I can't see how thats helping Cryptic, it just seems like its lose / lose. But supposely some people think its been a good change . . . . . ???
  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    it's official, just retired from VIP, it just got expired. too much stress collecting a key on daily, and stop collecting when it got too full, lot of junks from lockboxes.

    1. they need to trim down "unwanted" items from lockboxes since other drops are too common from trash mobs and junk overland chests. it just add more misery.
    original lockboxes were lot better until mod 5 when they add more junk clutters and took out Idols and few decent prizes, and ninja-ed nerf hard.
    2. they still hadnt update invokings and V-bar merchants, then what we invoking for? diamonds? HA! forced daily quests just to earn, and still cant afford auction house, a big wall of high inflation cost by greed.
    3. access to bank/mailbox in anywhere? oh wow, that was it until stop using VIP and lose access. it feel forced to have access just to keep it active, and it come with cost and time.

    we seem cant help Cryptic when all they do is nerfing and high cost zen market, and ignoring suggestions when it would make game better, and they still wont add housing for players and indoors for guild halls.
    guess what, some folks i knew are gone and they move on.
    i see "active friends" are getting smaller.
    what they said, "Why are they hurting the game and not making it better?"

    the Golden Rule is, make them happy and they come back for more.
    if the devs did, and players see "Bait and Switch tactic" soon after it ran for awhile and suddenly pull out, and they are tired of it, also, dont like casino effect RNG and players want RPG back.
  • coliercolier Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 119 Arc User
    You come home from work (if you work), log into NW for your daily "Escape from Reality" to help forget about the grueling day you just experienced. But, you realize you forgot to plan for today's session (you have no key's), now you have a skip dungeons today and start grinding campaign currencies (if you have none) to make keys you will need tomorrow. The keys will now be ready the following day after waiting 18 hours their completion. You then think to yourself, am I playing or just grinding for possibility of no reward or junk (again)?. You answer and say no, I have actually went back to work preparing for tomorrows play which will give the slight CHANCE of obtaining that useful rewarding reward. The time will go by very fast once the required key's you make today are gone. Rinse and Repeat daily and your "Escape from Reality" is now gone you are just continuing to work. Fun factor = almost 0...if it was not for the community and our guild mates it would be a flat 0.
  • waywardwizard#4349 waywardwizard Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    > @colier said:
    > You come home from work (if you work), log into NW for your daily "Escape from Reality" to help forget about the grueling day you just experienced. But, you realize you forgot to plan for today's session (you have no key's), now you have a skip dungeons today and start grinding campaign currencies (if you have none) to make keys you will need tomorrow. The keys will now be ready the following day after waiting 18 hours their completion. You then think to yourself, am I playing or just grinding for possibility of no reward or junk (again)?. You answer and say no, I have actually went back to work preparing for tomorrows play which will give the slight CHANCE of obtaining that useful rewarding reward. The time will go by very fast once the required key's you make today are gone. Rinse and Repeat daily and your "Escape from Reality" is now gone you are just continuing to work. Fun factor = almost 0...if it was not for the community and our guild mates it would be a flat 0.

    This has been a problem for me too. Every game is some sort of grind, that is inevitable. Guild Wars 2 for example was marketed as different and grind free but their dynamic events are just another ''kill 10 rats'' quest in a new clothing. So if the grind is always there, the only thing left for the developer to do is make it fun and worthwhile. If its not fun and worthwhile its just like colier said a continuation of work. Making it fun however is tricky since people like different things and now we are left only with worthwhile. If the reward at the end is indeed great and if its obtainable in reasonable time people will play it. They will play with friends and they will make it fun themselves. Its that simple. If I have to run a dungeon 100 times I want to know, not hope, know that I will get something great in the end. Purchasing gear with seals was a way to do that. No luck with drops? No problem, get the seals buy it.

    I also really miss being able to trade with bis equipment from dungeons. My Avatar of War set back in the day was such a sweet sell.
    Anyway lets not make this a wall of text
  • santralafaxsantralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    Svardborg should allow 1 epic chest key per day. There's little point to VIP if your keys are not accepted. Svardborg hapens to be the content I'm playing (almost said paying!) lately.
  • btairbornebtairborne Member Posts: 352 Arc User

    Having to grind for keys, blood, campaign currency, influence.....someone said it before - when are we supposed to play the game?

    LOL, you do know you are playing an MMO? Which means once you get to max level, the only thing you do is GRIND! That's playing!
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User

    Having to grind for keys, blood, campaign currency, influence.....someone said it before - when are we supposed to play the game?

    LOL, you do know you are playing an MMO? Which means once you get to max level, the only thing you do is GRIND! That's playing!
    Not in a good MMO, my last one, there was a reason to make new alts on hitting max level and I had many many max level characters, here it's so grindy at max level, and there's not much reason to take more through the levelling path.
  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    same here, i played other MMO, as EQ2, Istaria, and ESO, they are lot better and less grindy and not as greedy as Cryptic, thier NWO's zen market is mess up and pricey and that RNG is the worst of all of MMO i played.

    that RNG is like playing a bad poker game, we always get a pairs or barely get full house if lucky, and never able to get a real nice royal flush suit, often less seen lesser suits when someone else seem more lucky than others.
    when we get a pair and we get junk pack and when we get full house and it always get rank 5's as prizes, and we dont need that since we can get those drop from trash mobs a little better with some rank 7's.
  • nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    kalindra said:

    Having to grind for keys, blood, campaign currency, influence.....someone said it before - when are we supposed to play the game?

    LOL, you do know you are playing an MMO? Which means once you get to max level, the only thing you do is GRIND! That's playing!
    I played a lot of other MMOs, but none of they had such a bad grind as this one.
    Any yet, here you are, and not there. May I ask why?
    (the only other MMO I ever played was UO)
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  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    IMHO this is a bad solution to a bad philosophy. You must solve the root of the problem.

    The problems is have to pay to open a chest after defeating a dungeon. This is unnatural, anti-role, anti-DnD philosophy.

    We all know the game needs monetization blablabla ofcourse. This is the worst way to do it. The most frustrating way for Free To Play players and the most frustrating way for Paying players. And this is why:

    You can invest time and get nothing
    You can invest money and get nothing
    You can invest time and money and get nothing.

    I suggest another lockbox with dungeon rewards with paying keys so you dont have to invest time and is 100% optional like lockboxes. And remove they paywall from the dungeon chests. People who likes the gamble will open them as we open lockboxes. But dont touch the player experience. Dont put paywalls on chests after you invest your time.
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  • nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User

    IMHO this is a bad solution to a bad philosophy. You must solve the root of the problem.

    The problems is have to pay to open a chest after defeating a dungeon. This is unnatural, anti-role, anti-DnD philosophy.

    At first (long time ago) there was Dungeon Delve hour4 times per day, at that time the boxes could be opened for free.
    With the removal of Dngeon delves a free key per day was introduced, distributed by the guy next to the Wondrous Bazaar.

    Up until then you still got at 1 piece of mostly valuable equipment, which could be sold (BoE). At least in my community the spoils were shared among the participants.

    Having no reward but a peridot or some rare equipment might be a bit discouraging.
    PWE/Cryptic will find out soon enough if we, the players, swallow this sour apple, or not.

    Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
  • lowenduslowendus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 322 Arc User

    IMHO this is a bad solution to a bad philosophy. You must solve the root of the problem.

    The problems is have to pay to open a chest after defeating a dungeon. This is unnatural, anti-role, anti-DnD philosophy.

    At first (long time ago) there was Dungeon Delve hour4 times per day, at that time the boxes could be opened for free.
    With the removal of Dngeon delves a free key per day was introduced, distributed by the guy next to the Wondrous Bazaar.

    Up until then you still got at 1 piece of mostly valuable equipment, which could be sold (BoE). At least in my community the spoils were shared among the participants.

    Having no reward but a peridot or some rare equipment might be a bit discouraging.
    PWE/Cryptic will find out soon enough if we, the players, swallow this sour apple, or not.

    Ran an ELOL yesterday,

    I got 3 periderps (peridots) and a Red Dragon glyph.

    1500RP and +1 on my iL

    I felt overwhelmed xD
  • santralafaxsantralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    ...
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,444 Arc User
    @ nameexpired

    Just to nitpick, the keys were added before DD was removed, as a way to let people run outside of fixed times. For a time, we had the best of both worlds.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    pitshade said:

    @ nameexpired



    Just to nitpick, the keys were added before DD was removed, as a way to let people run outside of fixed times. For a time, we had the best of both worlds.

    Yes, right, there was a time when you had the key AND the free DD hour.
    I think with the free key per day there was also the BoP from the treasure chest introduced.
    On the other hand the loot you found in the chest was selectable, I think, if you got lucky.

    Only the free item (Boss drop) was BoE. But there certainly was a boss drop, and it was, e.g. a T2 helmet in SP.

    And then the dungeon runners currency "lockbox key" was made BtA over a server restart as well.
    Might have been the day WoD was released.
    Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,444 Arc User
    BoP chest items predated that, introduced in Mod 1. If you got a set piece from the chest, you were given a choice for the exact set same as the choice now for Raid vs. Assault or Ward or whatever. Boss drops were unbound but completely random for which class or set.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    Pit, you hit right on, i did remember original dungeon runs before they added keys and then added RNG to support thier greed.
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    It's the time that kills me. 18 hours per key.

    A few days of dailies in Dread Ring = a bunch of keys gated by 18 hours to create each
    Same for MC and many others!

    I can understand the newer content being gated because of +5 rings and stuff(Better rewards) but give us a break on the grind and time!!
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    vordayn said:

    I would be fairly suprised if they put in a Legendary Dragon key in higher levels of VIP.

    It is a good thought to encourage the purchasing of more VIP levels, but I would think that it would reduce the company's profit in selling the keys.

    They are currently 300 zen for 5 keys (though they said it would be reduced to 250 zen). This equates to 30,000 AD per Legendary Dragon Key at the current ZAX rate.

    That in itself would pay for the cost of VIP per month.

    Again, the idea is good, and would make a lot of players happy, but I would be pleasantly suprised if they did so.

    except most players aren't going to buy the keys anyway. they might buy some with ad converted to zen but they aren't going to be purchasing it in real money. the people who are gonna buy it are gonna buy it regardless. I think they'd actually net more money. people are more likely to buy vip with real money. there are two types of people in this game. those who farm/grind and those who buy in because lack of time no lack of funds. the farmers gonna farm. they ain't gonna pay. the whales are gonna whale.. they aren't going to farm.

    they should make it easier to make keys. make them cheaper and crafted more quickly or make more than one key at a time. that's still going to be too much work for those who want instant gratification.

    in the buy and sell equation there has to be a buyer or what you're selling has no consequence. for the most part they are trying to create a market.. but it aint gonna happen. the value still isn't there. people are just going to play less. which is going to be less money for them over all. people will buy where there is value. they will open their wallets when they think a company is being fair and providing a good service.

    imo it's a lesson this company really really really needs to learn. their business management is sorely lacking.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,503 Arc User

    they might buy some with ad converted to zen but they aren't going to be purchasing it in real money.

    And the majority of zen is bought with real money.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • waywardwizard#4349 waywardwizard Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited January 2017

    people will buy where there is value. they will open their wallets when they think a company is being fair and providing a good service.

    imo it's a lesson this company really really really needs to learn. their business management is sorely lacking.

    Completely agree with the above
  • bethannaebethannae Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15 Arc User
    Ok, i know I am beating a dead horse but I am still bitter about not being able to play Sword Coast Adventures. I know that Cryptic does not think it added enough value to be worth it, but it is kind of like buying a hotel room for the night and not getting any shampoo. eventually cutting down on services will bite you in the rear end. I sword when it was taken away that I would not spend anymore cash in the game,and true to my word, I have not. I went straight from an $80 a month habit to zip. How about adding Sword coast adventures to the VIP service? you can then get back some of the perceived loss from third parties (though, I would argue that when the third party sellers are no longer making any money with your game, it is really on the way out). Snce the only real values from the VIP service is the chest key and the merchant/bank/mail/travel item, it would add some value, and maybe keep some of us VIPers who are on the fence to stay with the program. Add some value.....really...
  • deathdawg#1568 deathdawg Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    I saw a couple touch on the biggest peeves the game has forced me to have of late...AD, Auction Prices, Keys, GrindFest, Keys used no matter what with HAMSTER rewards. I have several characters and a few of them are at 70 but I sadly hate playing them now. I have VIP and seriously considering letting it counter go to zero and after the stockpile of keys that I got for dungeon runs out possibly leave the game still on the fence on the later. The daily key i get from the rewards of vip has me literally screaming mentally, it seemed that I was getting bars left and right, not daily but at least a few a week now seems am lucky to get 5 a week then there is the companion currency the ones used in lew of ad to upgrade a companion I used to see them in almost every use of a key now I see 5 in two weeks if I am extremely lucky for the effort. Locked Dungeon chests are a screwed up deal now as seems all I am getting on characters is not my class junk, I can not even use half the HAMSTER I am getting on my companions muchless myself as its always for a different class or pointless. Since they did this BULL about invocation giving a % bonus to ad to me seems AH prices have went up to the point a new person getting a higher level character and no VIP is like wtf. My eldest daughter started playing not long ago and got her HR to 50 and wasn't getting anything worth using on her character and looked at the AH to offset her gear to help her a bit in you guessed it to grind for more gear was so turned off with the game she left it to return to her previous mmo where she said at least they least listen to the ideas of the base. Cryptic is not listening and honestly seem to be going down the path that DDO is master of.....greed and ruin
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