Console Players are Lucky, please Compensate PC players with something Awsome!

etelgrin · January 2017

I mean they are about to get mod 10.5 Sea of Moving Ice expansion, most of them completed zone such as Bryn Shander, Lonelywood or Cold Run, they are about to grind their last part of boons, are ready to unlock svardborg after first FBI runs that came along. However the situation is entirerly different, we were told that SKT weapons will remain BiS for a long while, thats why they have been gated behind yet another grind prior to need to refine, was restoring them then even when restored they required special marks only available in svardborg, in practice it requires heavy campaign progression grind and is nearly impossible to complete without pay to win legendary dragon keys since its impossible to peek inside the chest and whether the legendary mark is in the chest or not you got to pick it thus draining the campaign tries from 5 down to 0 easily. Players on consoles do not have to bother about it, don't have to grind for dragon turtle moult, no lanolin grind either except for if some wants a vivify relic gear which is also gated horribly behind the lanolin/restoring gimmick. They do not have to bother about it. Because they know that on PC - we players who had made through all this grind or even worse those stuck somewhere in between they have legendary main and purple offhand or most common - just at purple everything and we got introduced new 4 distinct and at least 1 more useful bonus for PvE so they can just skip all these AD sinks, yes these are AD sinks, lanolin, dragon turtle moult, getting enough gearscore / be effective enough is a requirement and AD sink itself, of course you can say yes you can grind these but they are also strickt transfer to AD so it works both ways. They can just straightforward finish boons skip svardborg because its not needed and just wait till new BiS Firesoul weapon arrives and in the meantime upgrade all these things that I haven't because I had to spent AD in order to get the "promised long lasting BiS weapon".

waywardwizard · January 2017

I had to say something about this. I have been playing Neverwinter for a long time now but for reasons my own Ive avoided posting on the forums. Usually the negativity wins over here so its best to read the news and not participate imo. That being said I definitely feel you etelgrin. I know exactly where you are coming from with the above. I know what it feels like to invest in something both your time and resources only to have it seemingly disappear over night. That happens a lot in Neverwinter. One thing though is for certain, mod 10-10.5 presented too much grind, simply too much. Black ice was nothing in comparison. So with that in mind i am happy to see a return to a more accessible weapon acquisition. Personally Ive been too busy with my work these past few months so I pretty much skipped everything. So now I can return and having the option not to do the grind is indeed welcome.

Your demand for a compensation is understandable but is it really justifiable? In reality nobody can force any of us into doing something we dont want (ingame). For example you wanted relics you got relics, another person didnt want them and didnt commit to getting them. I think the best thing the devs can do is make relic weapon restoration and upgrading easier via increased drops from the corresponding instances.

PS: Btw the relic weapons are not dropping down from the bis status right? The new sets will have the same stats and damage as far as I know.

cilginordek · January 2017

Imo Firesoul bonus should just be adjusted down to be on part with all the other bonuses.

dmcewen · January 2017

It is nice as a console player to know what on the horizon but at the same time they didn't show us any love either. The pc had a month or two of mSVA without the key changes, the console got the key changed with SOMI. So even if I want the relic weapons, it's going to be expensive.

If they were really listening to all the feedback, the weapon damage for the new weapons needs to be between twisted and relic. A solution that would satisfy the major, especially the players who acquired the relic weapons.

cilginordek · January 2017

dmcewen said:
the weapon damage for the new weapons needs to be between twisted and relic.

This is already the case but firesoul set bonus more than makes up for the slight difference in damage.

dmcewen · January 2017

What is the weapon damage on the mod 11 mainhand to include the class?

grimah · January 2017

Im just baffled that they introduce weapons straight after the previous update.

Bit late for change now, but would have been more logical to introduce new armors, since no one needs everfrost resist anymore, and I've yet to meet someone who likes feeding armor.

urabask · January 2017

waywardwizard#4349 said:
I had to say something about this. I have been playing Neverwinter for a long time now but for reasons my own Ive avoided posting on the forums. Usually the negativity wins over here so its best to read the news and not participate imo. That being said I definitely feel you etelgrin. I know exactly where you are coming from with the above. I know what it feels like to invest in something both your time and resources only to have it seemingly disappear over night. That happens a lot in Neverwinter. One thing though is for certain, mod 10-10.5 presented too much grind, simply too much. Black ice was nothing in comparison. So with that in mind i am happy to see a return to a more accessible weapon acquisition. Personally Ive been too busy with my work these past few months so I pretty much skipped everything. So now I can return and having the option not to do the grind is indeed welcome.

Your demand for a compensation is understandable but is it really justifiable? In reality nobody can force any of us into doing something we dont want (ingame). For example you wanted relics you got relics, another person didnt want them and didnt commit to getting them. I think the best thing the devs can do is make relic weapon restoration and upgrading easier via increased drops from the corresponding instances.

PS: Btw the relic weapons are not dropping down from the bis status right? The new sets will have the same stats and damage as far as I know.

Yes, they are dropping from BiS for support and some DPS classes.

I really have never understood the idea that publishers/devs shouldn't compensate players for making significant changes to a game. Good publishers and devs do this. Masochists like you justify terrible decisions by devs that allow them to continue to screw players over. They've already made the decision that the grind in 10/10.5 was too much. Now you're here arguing that they shouldn't compensate the players that completed it somehow because they've asked players to bend over before. People need to stop arguing against the best interests of the playerbase just because it doesn't affect them. Time to get a clue.

devlin · January 2017

Why would PC players be compensated over consoles? At least you could peek your way to your relics likely lowering the cost of obtaining them by 99% of what consoles will have to pay. In addition, you have had more time (though still not enough) of having them BIS. Obtaining these on console will be a financial and/or time nightmare.

The reply of "well don't do it then" is fine I guess. Except the vast majority of players want to be BIS and likely dont even know this new mod is coming, much less that it contains weapons that usurp their recently obtained relic one. PC players have every right to feel slighted by this change, but it doesnt hold a candle to what the console players are going to feel.

urabask · January 2017

devlin#3775 said:
Why would PC players be compensated over consoles? At least you could peek your way to your relics likely lowering the cost of obtaining them by 99% of what consoles will have to pay. In addition, you have had more time (though still not enough) of having them BIS. Obtaining these on console will be a financial and/or time nightmare.

The reply of "well don't do it then" is fine I guess. Except the vast majority of players want to be BIS and likely dont even know this new mod is coming, much less that it contains weapons that usurp their recently obtained relic one. PC players have every right to feel slighted by this change, but it doesnt hold a candle to what the console players are going to feel.

Because you know in advance that you can skip SoMI. PC players had no way of knowing they were going to get screwed. Console players just to need to bother going on reddit, the forums or talking to their guildmates before bothering with the relic weapons. If console players somehow even manage to get MSVA runs together without hearing about the mod 11 weapons it just means they're clueless. On PC if the same order of events happened that are happening for console players you see it spammed in zone chat and every guild would be talking about it. FFS it's already happened on PC. MSVA is dead in the water on PC atm because everyone knows the relic weapons are pointless. Prior to that there were still people grinding them out in spite of the key change.

vteasy · January 2017

so the devs improve the game and you want compensation? or do you just want to keep your edge in pvp knowing it is now much harder to grind for old relic weapons with the key changes...I wonder

weaver936 · January 2017

MSVA is not dead (yet).. we still get runs for it in my SKT3K channel. Ignorant talk, Anti-Social Tendencies, and Intellectually Lazy attitudes is what had made Mod 10 as hard as it has been... NOT the game design itself.

urabask · January 2017

vteasy said:
so the devs improve the game and you want compensation? or do you just want to keep your edge in pvp knowing it is now much harder to grind for old relic weapons with the key changes...I wonder

lol.

Virtually no one plays PvP so I'm not sure why this is even the first thing you'd bring up.

weaver936 said:
MSVA is not dead (yet).. we still get runs for it in my SKT3K channel. Ignorant talk, Anti-Social Tendencies, and Intellectually Lazy attitudes is what had made Mod 10 as hard as it has been... NOT the game design itself.

So a few people that are really bad at math are still continuing to do it. Good for you? The vast majority of the people that were grinding it are stopping with both weapons at epic or a legendary mainhand.

colier · January 2017

I would have skipped the SoMI content if I knew about Mod11 in advance...I have limited play time and the grind required for these Relic weapons is insane...I declare them a "NO JOY" and I will be waiting for the Mod 11 Weapons and Gear. Which for now, at least by what is being reported is easier to obtain and upgrade with far less grind.

devlin · January 2017

urabask said:

devlin#3775 said:
Why would PC players be compensated over consoles? At least you could peek your way to your relics likely lowering the cost of obtaining them by 99% of what consoles will have to pay. In addition, you have had more time (though still not enough) of having them BIS. Obtaining these on console will be a financial and/or time nightmare.

The reply of "well don't do it then" is fine I guess. Except the vast majority of players want to be BIS and likely dont even know this new mod is coming, much less that it contains weapons that usurp their recently obtained relic one. PC players have every right to feel slighted by this change, but it doesnt hold a candle to what the console players are going to feel.
Because you know in advance that you can skip SoMI. PC players had no way of knowing they were going to get screwed. Console players just to need to bother going on reddit, the forums or talking to their guildmates before bothering with the relic weapons. If console players somehow even manage to get MSVA runs together without hearing about the mod 11 weapons it just means they're clueless. On PC if the same order of events happened that are happening for console players you see it spammed in zone chat and every guild would be talking about it. FFS it's already happened on PC. MSVA is dead in the water on PC atm because everyone knows the relic weapons are pointless. Prior to that there were still people grinding them out in spite of the key change.

Not arguing with you. I (a PS4 player) frequent those sites, and am aware of the upcoming mod. Lots of people are. But I think it's a minority of players that frequent these websites (I could be wrong). Judging by how clueless most people seem at the 10.5 content, I don't think they are "in the know" on whats coming. I guess you could say thats their own fault; that's fair; but this information isnt always easy to find (the fact that the key change was coming with the mod 10.5 drop was first announced in PC forums iirc).

Nevertheless, I still think a second wave of angry players will be forthcoming once more and more console players learn of this information too late.

ghoulz66 · January 2017

grimah said:
Im just baffled that they introduce weapons straight after the previous update.

Bit late for change now, but would have been more logical to introduce new armors, since no one needs everfrost resist anymore, and I've yet to meet someone who likes feeding armor.

Apparently the DEVs never did plan on having the new weapons be as strong as relic. It's believable that they just slapped the things into preview asap without any quick adjustments.

If it was their plan all along, it makes perfect sense. The relic weapons have a stupidly higher amount of weapon damage compared to twisted and the quad elemental. There should be something in between such a large gap.

waywardwizard · January 2017

> @urabask said:
> I had to say something about this. I have been playing Neverwinter for a long time now but for reasons my own Ive avoided posting on the forums. Usually the negativity wins over here so its best to read the news and not participate imo. That being said I definitely feel you etelgrin. I know exactly where you are coming from with the above. I know what it feels like to invest in something both your time and resources only to have it seemingly disappear over night. That happens a lot in Neverwinter. One thing though is for certain, mod 10-10.5 presented too much grind, simply too much. Black ice was nothing in comparison. So with that in mind i am happy to see a return to a more accessible weapon acquisition. Personally Ive been too busy with my work these past few months so I pretty much skipped everything. So now I can return and having the option not to do the grind is indeed welcome.
>
>
>
> Your demand for a compensation is understandable but is it really justifiable? In reality nobody can force any of us into doing something we dont want (ingame). For example you wanted relics you got relics, another person didnt want them and didnt commit to getting them. I think the best thing the devs can do is make relic weapon restoration and upgrading easier via increased drops from the corresponding instances.
>
>
>
> PS: Btw the relic weapons are not dropping down from the bis status right? The new sets will have the same stats and damage as far as I know.
>
> Yes, they are dropping from BiS for support and some DPS classes.
>
> I really have never understood the idea that publishers/devs shouldn't compensate players for making significant changes to a game. Good publishers and devs do this. Masochists like you justify terrible decisions by devs that allow them to continue to screw players over. They've already made the decision that the grind in 10/10.5 was too much. Now you're here arguing that they shouldn't compensate the players that completed it somehow because they've asked players to bend over before. People need to stop arguing against the best interests of the playerbase just because it doesn't affect them. Time to get a clue.

I'm sorry but isn't a " M/asochis/t " someone who harms himself and enjoys it? Going by definition and seeing how we all agree that relic weapon restoration/upgrading was a pain it would seem the masochists are those who have been enjoying bis status via having relic weapons albeit for a short time.. I don't have them and I dont care if a compensation is going to happen, Im simply stating my opinion here. I could have pushed myself in the silly pursuit of bis status so I can kill more people in pvp or top pve charts but I didn't. I didn't because I was busy and because I didn't want to. Those of us who have the relic weapons wanted to have them. Its as simple as that and there is no need for name calling. You are upset I get it and I know why. I understand. But cryptic is actually doing exactly what cryptic does. Its like being mad at a dog for barking. We play their game, we should know what to expect by now. In case you guys are new players then yes you might have merit to complain. Other than that, we are just moving on.

urabask · January 2017

waywardwizard#4349 said:
> @urabask said:

> I had to say something about this. I have been playing Neverwinter for a long time now but for reasons my own Ive avoided posting on the forums. Usually the negativity wins over here so its best to read the news and not participate imo. That being said I definitely feel you etelgrin. I know exactly where you are coming from with the above. I know what it feels like to invest in something both your time and resources only to have it seemingly disappear over night. That happens a lot in Neverwinter. One thing though is for certain, mod 10-10.5 presented too much grind, simply too much. Black ice was nothing in comparison. So with that in mind i am happy to see a return to a more accessible weapon acquisition. Personally Ive been too busy with my work these past few months so I pretty much skipped everything. So now I can return and having the option not to do the grind is indeed welcome.

>

>

>

> Your demand for a compensation is understandable but is it really justifiable? In reality nobody can force any of us into doing something we dont want (ingame). For example you wanted relics you got relics, another person didnt want them and didnt commit to getting them. I think the best thing the devs can do is make relic weapon restoration and upgrading easier via increased drops from the corresponding instances.

>

>

>

> PS: Btw the relic weapons are not dropping down from the bis status right? The new sets will have the same stats and damage as far as I know.

>

> Yes, they are dropping from BiS for support and some DPS classes.

>

> I really have never understood the idea that publishers/devs shouldn't compensate players for making significant changes to a game. Good publishers and devs do this. Masochists like you justify terrible decisions by devs that allow them to continue to screw players over. They've already made the decision that the grind in 10/10.5 was too much. Now you're here arguing that they shouldn't compensate the players that completed it somehow because they've asked players to bend over before. People need to stop arguing against the best interests of the playerbase just because it doesn't affect them. Time to get a clue.

I'm sorry but isn't a " M/asochis/t " someone who harms himself and enjoys it? Going by definition and seeing how we all agree that relic weapon restoration/upgrading was a pain it would seem the masochists are those who have been enjoying bis status via having relic weapons albeit for a short time.. I don't have them and I dont care if a compensation is going to happen, Im simply stating my opinion here. I could have pushed myself in the silly pursuit of bis status so I can kill more people in pvp or top pve charts but I didn't. I didn't because I was busy and because I didn't want to. Those of us who have the relic weapons wanted to have them. Its as simple as that and there is no need for name calling. You are upset I get it and I know why. I understand. But cryptic is actually doing exactly what cryptic does. Its like being mad at a dog for barking. We play their game, we should know what to expect by now. In case you guys are new players then yes you might have merit to complain. Other than that, we are just moving on.

Except we just had them replace half of the parcels we would normally get in the winter event because they weren't dropping blue level 70 equips. Then they massively improved the loot tables in light of the chest changes (and yes anyone that hasn't realized this needs to get a clue). Things have changed when management was replaced but if people continue to let them justify bad practices they'll go along with it.

ironzerg79 · January 2017

So the devs are aware that the Firesoul bonus could potentially be game breaking. Hopefully they'll give us an opportunity to buy it on the preview server to test it.

Quick question: That being said, OUTSIDE of the Firesoul bonus, would people exchange their Relic weapons for any of the other ones?

The reason I ask is that I'm trying to cut through this and find the source. If people are mad simply because the set bonus from ONE of the module 11 weapons makes the Relic weapons "obsolete" in their opinion, then doesn't it make sense to tackle that ONE set bonus so that if you're looking for the best of the best, it remains the Relic weapons some people grinded so hard to get?

urabask · January 2017

ironzerg79 said:
So the devs are aware that the Firesoul bonus could potentially be game breaking. Hopefully they'll give us an opportunity to buy it on the preview server to test it.

Quick question: That being said, OUTSIDE of the Firesoul bonus, would people exchange their Relic weapons for any of the other ones?

The reason I ask is that I'm trying to cut through this and find the source. If people are mad simply because the set bonus from ONE of the module 11 weapons makes the Relic weapons "obsolete" in their opinion, then doesn't it make sense to tackle that ONE set bonus so that if you're looking for the best of the best, it remains the Relic weapons some people grinded so hard to get?

Fey is outright better for DC/OP. They don't need the extra 10% DPS/healing from the relic set bonus and mostly switched because of the stats. The stats are what make relic weapons BiS so changing set bonuses won't really make much of a difference. They just need something that every class will benefit from that none of the ascendant weapons offer. e.g. Make them 165 ilvl at legendary and put an extra offense slot on the offhand at legendary. Just let the people that have the relic weapons be the special cupcakes they want to be and it doesn't matter how good the ascendant weapons are as long as relic weapons are better.

mightyeriksson · January 2017

urabask said:

Fey is outright better for DC/OP. They don't need the extra 10% DPS/healing from the relic set bonus and mostly switched because of the stats. The stats are what make relic weapons BiS so changing set bonuses won't really make much of a difference. They just need something that every class will benefit from that none of the ascendant weapons offer. e.g. Make them 165 ilvl at legendary and put an extra offense slot on the offhand at legendary. Just let the people that have the relic weapons be the special cupcakes they want to be and it doesn't matter how good the ascendant weapons are as long as relic weapons are better.

For how long should the developers keep new things at a lower "tier" than the Relic weapons?

Or, one could just be happy that there are new, nice things coming that even offers with 4 different set-bonuses instead of just the one...

urabask · January 2017

mightyeriksson said:

urabask said:

Fey is outright better for DC/OP. They don't need the extra 10% DPS/healing from the relic set bonus and mostly switched because of the stats. The stats are what make relic weapons BiS so changing set bonuses won't really make much of a difference. They just need something that every class will benefit from that none of the ascendant weapons offer. e.g. Make them 165 ilvl at legendary and put an extra offense slot on the offhand at legendary. Just let the people that have the relic weapons be the special cupcakes they want to be and it doesn't matter how good the ascendant weapons are as long as relic weapons are better.
For how long should the developers keep new things at a lower "tier" than the Relic weapons?

Or, one could just be happy that there are new, nice things coming that even offers with 4 different set-bonuses instead of just the one...

Well considering that Twisted was top of the pile for a year ...

ironzerg79 · January 2017

urabask said:
Just let the people that have the relic weapons be the special cupcakes they want to be and it doesn't matter how good the ascendant weapons are as long as relic weapons are better.

Probably easier to just give people the title "Special Cupcake" for completing a legendary Relic item. That way the rest of us mooks don't need to actually take the time to inspect these people we need to worship as true gods walking among us mortals.

dupeks · January 2017

ironzerg79 said:
So the devs are aware that the Firesoul bonus could potentially be game breaking. Hopefully they'll give us an opportunity to buy it on the preview server to test it.

Quick question: That being said, OUTSIDE of the Firesoul bonus, would people exchange their Relic weapons for any of the other ones?

The reason I ask is that I'm trying to cut through this and find the source. If people are mad simply because the set bonus from ONE of the module 11 weapons makes the Relic weapons "obsolete" in their opinion, then doesn't it make sense to tackle that ONE set bonus so that if you're looking for the best of the best, it remains the Relic weapons some people grinded so hard to get?

It's been mentioned before, but support classes might be better served with other ones, like Fey. Or even the one that summons illusions if the illusions do anything other than provide damage (do they generate threat, can their attacks stun, interrupt, or buff/debuff depending on your class/loadout?).

I think that it's also been mentioned, but providing a relic wep vendor on preview for folks to actually try out the weapons would be key to getting useful feedback. Right now all of this outrage and other nonsense is based solely on tooltips, and we all know those seldom tell the whole story.

ironzerg79 · January 2017

dupeks said:
Right now all of this outrage and other nonsense is based solely on tooltips, and we all know those seldom tell the whole story.

Exactly. And I know the devs have received the message that the players would like a vendor similar to the Module 10 testing vendor so they can run these through the paces and actually test them.

I'm don't think anyone would mind if the set bonuses on the new weapons were good, but the Relic ones were clearly better.

And outside the scope of Relic weapons, I don't want to see a weapon launch with such a supposedly stupidly over-powered set bonus that it either gets nerfed after going live, or it makes other weapons that come out later obsolete, like how the Lostmauth Set essentially rendered any belt/artifact/neck combo forever obsolete.

dupeks · January 2017

ironzerg79 said:

dupeks said:
Right now all of this outrage and other nonsense is based solely on tooltips, and we all know those seldom tell the whole story.
Exactly. And I know the devs have received the message that the players would like a vendor similar to the Module 10 testing vendor so they can run these through the paces and actually test them.

I'm don't think anyone would mind if the set bonuses on the new weapons were good, but the Relic ones were clearly better.

And outside the scope of Relic weapons, I don't want to see a weapon launch with such a supposedly stupidly over-powered set bonus that it either gets nerfed after going live, or it makes other weapons that come out later obsolete, like how the Lostmauth Set essentially rendered any belt/artifact/neck combo forever obsolete.

I definitely agree, and I hope the devs are also aligned on that goal: not releasing stuff that will need to be significantly nerfed shortly thereafter. And therefore will provide for adequate testing via preview weps vendor.

Although, I think too much of the discussion has been exclusively from the point of view of DPS characters.

I get that DPS is very important, and more sensitive to weapon damage than support classes. But it's kind of a bummer if support / defensive classes are left out in the cold here. I don't really know of a great solution outside of an exchange vendor, but as you mentioned at some point that's not really a likely outcome here...

thefiresidecat · January 2017

lol. I read the first half of this thread and listed all my refining thingoids. read the rest and took them back... guess I"ll wait and see for a while before I sell my stuff. I doubt I'll be near ready to refine anything for a month or so yet anyway.

Personally i hope they buff up the relic instead of nerfing the new weapon. what with all the nerfs and the content getting more difficult the power has to come from somewhere right? I don't mind the grind. I have tons of free time but I do mind if it's a pointless grind. lol.

I see why you're mad .. but like others have said it isn't like we're getting it easy. that key change is serious stuff. it pretty much negates any foreknowledge. imagine if you had to take what you got EVERY run you did... but I also get the not knowing about better weapons going forward part.

on the other hand you guys get the new content before we do so you get all the joy of figuring stuff out. I kind of miss that. figuring out how to run things. what the trick is. sometimes that's the best part of a new raid/dungeon but by the time we get it there are guides and people get salty if you haven't memorized them before your first run. the one thing i am grateful for is the guides for these treasure maps though. OMG I can't imagine having to figure these out without guides. holy guacamole!

I do think you're owed something and that's a buff to the relic weapon and a special cupcake/snowflake tag. but no more than that.

Console Players are Lucky, please Compensate PC players with something Awsome!

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