[XBOX] Adrift Before Floating Ice - 2.7k OP Tank

psynr · January 2017

I'm looking at what's coming for console players in a week and I'm fairly despondent on the near future of my little low-to-mid IL OP. I went the route of the non-crit, justice protection Tank. Slowly chipping away and scrounging to gear up (between job, kids, life); I only recently started to feel like I was gaining some momentum. It looks like 10.5 will wipe that out with what I’m seeing from the PC community already playing it. So I’m at a cross-roads and would appreciate your thoughts.

1. Do I take the hit and attempt to completely retool/rebuild for 10.5, in spite of the continued nerf bat attention OPs have?

Or

2. Should I shelve the OP for a class (DPS or Heals) that is a bit more stable and has superiority in their defined role?

I’ve played tanks, healers, and DPS across may different MMOs; and have perhaps just a tad more affinity towards DPS classes – casters in particular. However, the SW in neverwinter didn't capture my interest at all. I do have a lvl 70 GWF that’s basically an undergeared bank alt.

So, what would you all do?

Psynr

Edit: BTW, my resources amount to about 100k AD at the moment... ugh.

*****
Here’s a general breakdown of what I’m rolling with on the OP right now:

STATS - Unbuffed with Boons (no auras/circle):
Con 29
Cha 20
Health 140,000
Pwr 7700
ArmPn 5200 (48%)
Recovery 4900
Defense 18,600
APGain 29.6%
DamResist: 70.1%

GEAR (Epic unless noted):
2 pc Dusk Set, 2 pc Dragonflight
Legendary OP Sigil
Legendary GWF Sigil
(Other 2 Arti's are meh)
Rising Power 5 Ring
Rising Defense 4 Ring
Burning Weapon Set lvl 43 - I know... I know...
(Twisted Weapon in bag, farming on Twisted Shield – halfway there)

ENCHANTS:
Defense: R8 Azures, 1 R9 Azure
Offense: R8 Darks and Silvers (mix)
Utility: R8 Fey, Dragons Hoard, Darks (mix)
Armor: Shadowclad
Weapon: Lesser Dread

COMPANIONS (of note):
Owlbear
Shadow Demon – Bonding Runestones R8
Dread Warrior

CAMPAIGN BOON STATUS:
Sharandar – Done
Dread Ring – Done
Icewind Dale – 4/5
Underdark – Done
Tyranny of Dragons – 3/8
The Maze Engine – Done
Elemental Evil - Done

rjc9000 · January 2017

Personally, I feel that the PC community was overreacting. Imo Tankadin is a functioning tank class and is worth taking into future content.

It is true that low-geared Paladins will have difficulty surviving. This is not an issue to you, as you have a decent bit of gear to keep you going.

While the Tankadin bubble was nerfed and Binding Oath no longer gives you invincibility, the Paladin can actually AGGRO things now. This, imo, gives the Tankadin the final piece of their kit and allows them to become a functioning tank class. (Templar's Wrath is still necessary to survive though).

In addition, the new Absolution allows you to "buff" before the raid. You can put a Tankadin Absolution on your teammates before the fighting starts, and then swap back to the power of your choice, without your teammates losing the Absolution shield.

On PC, you'll always see people looking for tanks for content. Even if you aren't a GF, most teams will take a Tankadin over no tank, as their passive bonuses (Auras, Aura Gifts, etc.) and ability to aggro & soak up damage are greatly appreaciated. I know that, on PC, even if I barely hit the Ilvl requirement for ESvard on my OP, most teams will take me over yet another 4k Destroyer GWF (no offense GWFs, but there's quite a lot of you high Ilvl GWFs).

For other advice:

Last I checked, most of the Tankadin's DPS comes from Aura of Courage and Divine Judgement, of which Dread does not buff. So I would swap to a T. Feytouched for its damage debuff on foes as well as buffing your two biggest sources of damage.

I would also pick up a Rust Monster and/or Chicken if you have the AD to spare. Their damage debuffs will help your survival immensely in high end content.

I am not a fan of Shadowclad on a tank. The extra deflect chance is nice, but the random spurts of invisibility aren't good for tanking (ie, you need to keep the enemies attacking you. if you turn invisible, then enemies will not attack you). I would personally take a Soulforged, Negation, or Elven Battle, for their second chance, extra DR, and CC resistance/extra stamina respectively.

No need to chase the new weapons as an OP, unless you plan to try Draco's DPS Tankadin. What I would personally do is do the new raid, but save up the special marks for your DPS classes.

You can take this with a grain of salt, as my Tankadin is on PC with R12 Bondings, a non tank companion, and 3300 Ilvl.

trzebiat · January 2017

rjc9000 said:
I am not a fan of Shadowclad on a tank. The extra deflect chance is nice, but the random spurts of invisibility aren't good for tanking (ie, you need to keep the enemies attacking you. if you turn invisible, then enemies will not attack you). I would personally take a Soulforged, Negation, or Elven Battle, for their second chance, extra DR, and CC resistance/extra stamina respectively

Why not stick to Pure Shadowclad instead of Trans then? The daze and stealth is the only difference between R11 and R12. I'm curious if Pure Shadowclad would be better upgrade for Perfect Negation than upgrading it to Pure or Trans. But what would be safe Deflect rating and chance to use it for its DR so you never deflect? On OP the only forced source of Deflection is Off-Hand. 8x 4% DR from Pure Shadowclad sounds better than 10x 3% from Perfect+ Negation.

rjc9000 · January 2017

trzebiat#2067 said:

rjc9000 said:
I am not a fan of Shadowclad on a tank. The extra deflect chance is nice, but the random spurts of invisibility aren't good for tanking (ie, you need to keep the enemies attacking you. if you turn invisible, then enemies will not attack you). I would personally take a Soulforged, Negation, or Elven Battle, for their second chance, extra DR, and CC resistance/extra stamina respectively
Why not stick to Pure Shadowclad instead of Trans then? The daze and stealth is the only difference between R11 and R12. I'm curious if Pure Shadowclad would be better upgrade for Perfect Negation than upgrading it to Pure or Trans. But what would be safe Deflect rating and chance to use it for its DR so you never deflect? On OP the only forced source of Deflection is Off-Hand. 8x 4% DR from Pure Shadowclad sounds better than 10x 3% from Perfect+ Negation.

Oh, Shadowclad has a rank where there's no stealth?

In that case, yeah, go ahead and use the Shadowclad.

In hindsight, I see what psynr is doing with his Deflect and Shadowclad.. that's pretty clever. I never thought about doing that...

(ie, building up Shadowclad stacks, and when he Deflects, he takes no Deflect damage due to Shadow Demon. Then the process repeats itself...)

psynr · January 2017

Thanks for your insights RJC9000. Couple follow-ups.

rjc9000 said:
(ie, building up Shadowclad stacks, and when he Deflects, he takes no Deflect damage due to Shadow Demon. Then the process repeats itself...)

To give credit, it's a tenant of CaptnSpicyPants old Mod 9 build that I kept.

rjc9000 said:
In addition, the new Absolution allows you to "buff" before the raid. You can put a Tankadin Absolution on your teammates before the fighting starts, and then swap back to the power of your choice, without your teammates losing the Absolution shield.)

Doesn't Absolution need to be reapplied?

On the xbox, it's not as easy as PC to quick swap powers. Even between Demogorgon phases I'll change up a couple things, but often find the fight starts before I'm done. Attempting to buff the party in between might be time prohibitive on consoles.

rjc9000 said:
While the Tankadin bubble was nerfed and Binding Oath no longer gives you invincibility, the Paladin can actually AGGRO things now.

I actually found that Aura of Radiance was an effective alternative to gain and keep threat. Worked on multiples and singles (especially Demogorgon, even with 0 damage) to keep and hold aggro. An aggressive DPS could still get the better of me early on, but anything that lasted a bit would stay stuck. That said, I'm glad to hear that OP aggro is working across the board.

***

What have you switched your encounter powers to now:

CoP/TW/BL or Smite on groups?
CoP/TW/Bane on bosses?

Also, did you start enchanting for HP instead of defense as has been suggested?

Thanks

Psynr

rjc9000 · January 2017

psynr said:
Thanks for your insights RJC9000. Couple follow-ups.

rjc9000 said:
(ie, building up Shadowclad stacks, and when he Deflects, he takes no Deflect damage due to Shadow Demon. Then the process repeats itself...)
To give credit, it's a tenant of CaptnSpicyPants old Mod 9 build that I kept.
rjc9000 said:
In addition, the new Absolution allows you to "buff" before the raid. You can put a Tankadin Absolution on your teammates before the fighting starts, and then swap back to the power of your choice, without your teammates losing the Absolution shield.)
Doesn't Absolution need to be reapplied?

On the xbox, it's not as easy as PC to quick swap powers. Even between Demogorgon phases I'll change up a couple things, but often find the fight starts before I'm done. Attempting to buff the party in between might be time prohibitive on consoles.
rjc9000 said:
While the Tankadin bubble was nerfed and Binding Oath no longer gives you invincibility, the Paladin can actually AGGRO things now.
I actually found that Aura of Radiance was an effective alternative to gain and keep threat. Worked on multiples and singles (especially Demogorgon, even with 0 damage) to keep and hold aggro. An aggressive DPS could still get the better of me early on, but anything that lasted a bit would stay stuck. That said, I'm glad to hear that OP aggro is working across the board.

***

What have you switched your encounter powers to now:

CoP/TW/BL or Smite on groups?
CoP/TW/Bane on bosses?

Also, did you start enchanting for HP instead of defense as has been suggested?

Thanks

Psynr

I've never really tried any console builds, as I mostly took Sharpedge's Mod8 Paladin guide and made a few modifications to my own liking.

Yes, once Absolution's shield is depleted, you will need to reapply Absolution. I usually used it as a fire and forget buff, ie, to give the entire team a little boost in survivability while the team is getting set up.

I usually put Absolution everyone on PC in before an Edemo or Esvard run, for example. When everyone is loading in, swapping gear, and checking companions, I take the time to put Absolution on everyone I see (or mostly everyone, sometimes I get lazy). Once I see people with a shield on them, I swap out Absolution for my usual powers.

Again, since I'm a PC player, I can quickly swap between powers on a dime. It might not be as effective on console for the very reasons you stated.

I usually had aggro issues because I ran Courage/Wisdom (lazy and unoriginal, I know) and rarely ran Vow/never ran Radiance.
That, or as I'm a GF main, I just wanted a hard taunt button, and got that in the form of the new Binding Oath.

My typical loadout for mobs is:

Shielding Strike/Radiant Strike
Courage/Wisdom
Binding Oath/Templar's Wrath/Burning Light (you can really use whatever here)
Bubble/(whatever)

My typical loadout for bosses is:

Shielding Strike/Radiant Strike
Courage/Wisdom
Binding Oath/Templar's Wrath/Bane
Bubble/(whatever)

There are times where I fool around with other powers, usually replacing Bane or swapping out my last daily attack.

Sometimes, I run Vow for the AP Gain lulz (in Mod10.5, currently, Vow fills your AP really really quickly). Sometimes, I run Circle of Power to keep another tank alive or to give my team some extra protection (usually in Svardborg or in FBI). I sometimes use Divine Judgement for the lulz or Lay on Hands if I notice the team needs some backup heals. On Orcus, I use Heroism to get set up.

Yes, I ran all HP and Power on my character. My companion is stacked with Defense and Power, as HP does not stack through Bondings. I currently use the GWF pack companion for its decent mix of offense and defense slots, as well as having waist slots (I have many loyal girdles in the bank). I'd probably get better mileage out of the Con Artist though.

armadeonx · January 2017

You should really get your armor pen up so your RI (resistance ignored) is at 60%. Bosses have high DR (damage resistance) so if your RI is too low you'll be getting a lot less temp health from TW.

That's actually the main reason for speccing for DPS; the more damage you deal with TW, the more temp health you have to absorb incoming damage.

Edit: you should also run alt characters for AD. On one character you can get through your 2 x dungeons & skirms and get about 20k in an hour, after that earning becomes slow unless you get a lucky drop from a dungeon. Running even just 1 alt can double your income. You should also work on professions on them. I currently have 6 characters with r25 Leadership and so can create a lot of refining stones with no expense.

It also gives you options for when they nerf a class - you have another already levelled up if you need to switch and you can transfer all enchantments. I currently have every class except the HR lol.

thrill · January 2017

psynr said:

I actually found that Aura of Radiance was an effective alternative to gain and keep threat. Worked on multiples and singles (especially Demogorgon, even with 0 damage) to keep and hold aggro. An aggressive DPS could still get the better of me early on, but anything that lasted a bit would stay stuck. That said, I'm glad to hear that OP aggro is working across the board.

I am hoping the aggro fix is as good as everyone says. I think running Aura of Radiance is a huge detriment to your team. I just think Courage and Wisdom are too valuable to switch out.

My main curiosity is how Binding Oath will work now. I have practiced trying to run with CoP/TW/Smite or Bane instead of BO/TW/Smite or Bane and I am nervous about my vulnerability while casting CoP. If I cast TW first then I miss out on the added damage from CoP to buff my temp HP from TW. If I cast CoP first I have to worry about getting one shotted while casting it. I am hoping BO is still viable so I don't have to use CoP.

One of the problems I have heard about BO is that the damage you take is unmitigated by your DR. Is there any word on if that will be fixed or is it working as intended. I was hoping when they fixed vow they would also fix that on BO.

armadeonx · January 2017

thrill#1417 said:

One of the problems I have heard about BO is that the damage you take is unmitigated by your DR. Is there any word on if that will be fixed or is it working as intended. I was hoping when they fixed vow they would also fix that on BO.

The damage is'pre-mitigated' in that the amount of damage your BO shield takes is reduced by your DR stat so BO takes the 'net value' then smacks you for half of that when it breaks.

michaelrn1982 · January 2017

As a prot pally, here is what I usually run. This has been a very viable build in 10.5 and able to do some decent damage.

Dailies: Divine Judgement (when nothing else is needed) and Divine Protector (usually run this while tanking, helps not only keep your team alive, but also helps with BO).

Encounters: Templars Wrath (for the well known and obvious), Smite/Blinding Light/Absolution/Etc(this is usually my situational encounter), and Binding Oath (So, using DP while this is active can catch the damage and put it towards the BO shield, and in returns can dish out the damage sooner than later).

Class Features: Aura of Courage and one of the following depending on the situation. Aura of (Protection, Truth, or Radiance[In testing, turns out it deals something based on weapon damage, seen 100%+ weapon damage per tick and it can be scaled with damage enhancing buffs]).

I will be updating the Devo build post I have to the Prot build I am currently running. There's quite a few changes I have made since I found some lovely long forgotten gems.

thrill · January 2017

I have been experimenting with the new powers today and this is where I am so far. Binding Oath really does not work well for me. I get that up as well as my TW and I still often find myself getting knocked back into my non-temp health a lot. I also tried Absolution. It works ok but sometimes it doesn't seem to cast. I get the little bubble on my toon but I don't get the shield on my health bar. So far I think CoP/TW/Smite or Bane with Courage and Wisdom and with Divine Judgment and Shield of Faith are my best option. I have not run in a group yet so I need to test out Divine Protector.

I like sacred weapon but I can't imagine what I would replace with it.

So, for doing dailies I plan on using:

Burning Light/TW/Smite/Divine Judgment

For mob sections of dungeons:

CoP/TW/Smite/Divine Judgment

For bosses:

CoP/TW/Bane/Divine Judgment or, if my group is squishy, Shield of Life (possibly the bubble).

michaelrn1982 · January 2017

One thing looking back is to increase your HP. You're defense is nice, but perhaps replacing a few of the rank 8 azures with even rank 8 radiant might make a change. 5k hp is a difference once you stack TW + BO. Also, I am not sure if consoles have it yet, but get an Energon companion for the bonus if they are available. It's active bonus is +5% of your max hp.

I will slowly start updating the Gathornia thread with my new Prot build, instead of Devo. I have focused on HP with a lot of max health % based skills/abilities/companions/enchantments. I have been able to face tank eCC, Orcus and eGWD with some ease. Still needs a healer, but I do not go down in one shot (hitting right at 200k hp with everyone with the VIP bonus, lingering around 190k unbuffed).

armadeonx · January 2017

Looking the at HP & Defence values from enchantments, a rank 12 Azure gives 700 defence and a Radiant gives 2,800 HP. With 400 Defence equalling 1% Damage Reduction, the question is; point for point does 1% DR serve you better than 1600 HP.

This of course depends on how hard you're being hit. If Orcus hits for 800k then 1% DR blocks 8k damage, so 1.6kHP would leave you 6.4k HP worse off after 1 hit. OF course, this is countered someone by the Protection mechanic that boosts your power up to 10% of the value of your HP which would translate into more temp health, but I don't believe it's enough to make up the gap.

When BO & Divine Protector offered 100% damage immunity this wasn't a problem but the devs have gone out of their way to remove total invulnerability.

Of course with the new content, Everfrost damage ignores DR so HP is the only counter to this (as well as EF resist ofc) but as these enemies still deal normal damage as well I'm personally working on the principle that the only thing worth replacing some DR with is EF resist: e.g. Makos Ring gives 3% EF resist but has no defence slot. In SKT it's worth using the ring as I believe the EF damage is greater than the 1.75% normal damage you'd block with a r12 Azure and it's even better value if you have lower ranked Azures.

[XBOX] Adrift Before Floating Ice - 2.7k OP Tank

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