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  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    In addition, I did oh.. like 25 fbi runs and oh.. like 10 ESVA's just to experience them and say i did them.. other then that, I mostly skipped the HAMSTER known as mod 10 and 10.5.. I took time off for a few weeks, then spent most of my time in winterfest instead.. All of which was 100% more enjoyable to me, then trying to do that "content"

    WORST ever thing they did in this game was those mods. (and I mean, even YES worse then mod 6 and mod 4 (broken content and boring dailies.. both of which were more fun then mod 10's insane grindy boring, gated garbage they threw at as)). The saving grace of MOD 10.. is that it mostly can be ignored, you will suffer in terms of DPS output (by 20-30% or so) but other then that.. the boons are mostly garbage (outside of the OP) for every class.. so 0% needed to do them.


    Tons of people were"playing" , they were "playing winterfest for almost a month.. then new loot came out and they started trying to have fun in dungeons again.

    Count me as one, IF mod 10 and 10.5 went the way of the dodo bird, fine by me.

    however, it will remain in the game.. it should be SCALED back, to acceptable levels (LIKE we first requested when it came out)

    Anyone here really have fun running around all day on SOMI looking for moults? or digging relics ? or doing hes for lanolin?

    Very few I would say.. very very few.

    Anything that scales back from the insane amount of inanity will make this game seem playable to me again.

  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User

    How about they just allow people who ground out mod 10.5 weapons, to exchange them for the new ones if they so choose? Will that work for most people?

    Why not? Because then every single time something changes in the game, people will demand that they be able to exchange one thing for the other.

    These changes are the nature of the beast.

    And again, if this discourages people from over-indulging in overly grindy content, which sends a message to the dev team that this sort of stuff isn't acceptable to the playerbase, that can only be a good thing going forward.
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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    And again, if this discourages people from over-indulging in overly grindy content, which sends a message to the dev team that this sort of stuff isn't acceptable to the playerbase, that can only be a good thing going forward.

    Just say no!

    Everyone who thought the amount of grind was bullhamster but did it anyway because SHINIES is only encouraging them.

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  • cattman5cattman5 Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    How to solve this is to make the new marks drop on equip. Make the new weapons need the new marks at least for epic and legendary. And cut the needed currency needs for mod 10, 10.5 in half. I mean everything reputation, voninblod, supplies, lanolin all of it. This makes everyone happy. Alts can run mod10 and FBI and Svoborg doesn't go the way of the dodo. Just my two cents
  • kieranmtornkieranmtorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    As someone who did 5 boons on 2 toons in mod 10 and skipped SVA and the screwed relic gear (black ice mk2), the new mod 11 weapons will be just fine for me. I had 7 toons with twisted, the mod 11 weapons look like decent replacements.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    Even the poeple who did the grind, didnt like the grind, they just feel effed about it.

    They should feel a little bit effed about it.. it sucked.

    However, the game isnt better with that level of grind, we all agree to that.

  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User

    As someone who did 5 boons on 2 toons in mod 10 and skipped SVA and the screwed relic gear (black ice mk2), the new mod 11 weapons will be just fine for me. I had 7 toons with twisted, the mod 11 weapons look like decent replacements.

    exactly.. this is a godsend..

    now for some non empowered armors..

    everything in neverwinter will be back to normal.. we can all start playing again and the game world gods will smile down on us!
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User

    And again, if this discourages people from over-indulging in overly grindy content, which sends a message to the dev team that this sort of stuff isn't acceptable to the playerbase, that can only be a good thing going forward.

    Just say no!

    Everyone who thought the amount of grind was bullhamster but did it anyway because SHINIES is only encouraging them.

    To an extent, I guess. We know Cryptic tracks a ton of stuff players do, and these metrics drive a lot of their decisions. Sometimes when it looks like they're ignoring feedback, it's often times because their in-game metrics show something very, very different.

    So yeah, if you hate doing something, but still do it...it shows up in their metrics as player engagement. Maybe sort of a false positive?
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  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User

    And again, if this discourages people from over-indulging in overly grindy content, which sends a message to the dev team that this sort of stuff isn't acceptable to the playerbase, that can only be a good thing going forward.

    Just say no!

    Everyone who thought the amount of grind was bullhamster but did it anyway because SHINIES is only encouraging them.

    I would give both my kidneys for that mastercraft fashion, but I knew better. Hell I've only seen 2 people wearing em so I sure as hell know I'll never get those. The company wants to make money off a large player base, or troll a couple hardcore clowns.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    And again, if this discourages people from over-indulging in overly grindy content, which sends a message to the dev team that this sort of stuff isn't acceptable to the playerbase, that can only be a good thing going forward.

    Just say no!

    Everyone who thought the amount of grind was bullhamster but did it anyway because SHINIES is only encouraging them.
    To an extent, I guess. We know Cryptic tracks a ton of stuff players do, and these metrics drive a lot of their decisions. Sometimes when it looks like they're ignoring feedback, it's often times because their in-game metrics show something very, very different.

    So yeah, if you hate doing something, but still do it...it shows up in their metrics as player engagement. Maybe sort of a false positive?
    I'd call it that, definitely. False negatives too.

    Players don't play Foundry quests (because it is not as rewarding as justaboutanythingelse), therefore it is not worth putting any resources into Foundry to make it better (either improving tools *or* trying to create better rewards).

    Players don't spend enough Zen on fashion to warrant trying to monetize it further, so we're going to remove it from our cash shop instead, even though lack of dedicated fashion storage is probably one of the strongest driving factors behind low numbers (utter lack of attractive everyday clothing also strikes me as something that gimped sales at the outset).

    I get that they don't want to act without some kind of numbers to back it up, but I think planning everything around numbers without trying to understand the context those numbers are drawn from does ignore the big picture. Players run HEs because that's how to get the latest thing, and the ONLY way to get the thing, not necessarily because they love HEs so much. Players flocked to fishing even if they LOATHED the idea because that's where the money was. Etc. And then the numbers show, "oh, but it was received very well".
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  • luks707luks707 Member Posts: 230 Arc User

    Even the poeple who did the grind, didnt like the grind, they just feel effed about it.

    They should feel a little bit effed about it.. it sucked.

    However, the game isnt better with that level of grind, we all agree to that.

    I think you are right. But not having the grind isn't the same as making the content completely pointless. I actually like FBI as a dungeon and SVA as an "epic trial". And frankly SOMI is quite pretty to adventure in and I like a bit of boating. It would be a waste to make it irrelevant to the game.
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,111 Arc User
    I'm not unhappy about this, but do feel a bit for the ppl that grinded out those weapons only to have them replaced one mod later. I wouldn't have objected to keeping my Twisted Weapons for another Mod.

    But I say NO NO NO NO to ever bringing that god awful grind back again, and I hope to dear hell that fishing (as a major component of the games play time) stays in Mod 10.5 and I never see it again (admittedly only did a min or 2 of it).

    Maybe give these guys a Title "Ice Grinder" or something and we can have "I skipped Mod 10"

  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    Maybe a unique "I grinded my soul away in IWD and all I got was this lousy relic" T-Shirt fashion item?
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  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited January 2017

    Maybe a unique "I grinded my soul away in IWD and all I got was this lousy relic" T-Shirt fashion item?

    Yeah, or maybe a title for unlocking the relic items.

    I'm with all the folks celebrating the new diversity and (hopeful) move away from that awful grind.

    But I'm also one of the folks that, in retrospect, spent wayyy too much time grinding stuff that was replaced seemingly in a heartbeat. It's hard not to feel deceived by the previous statements made by @asterdahl with regards to SKT relic wep longevity.

    It's certainly turned me off from investing in grindy content (I suppose I should have known better, after the Golden weps of yore). And it's also made me more skeptical about any future dev comments of a similar nature.

    A small token gift, plus an explanation that "given how the reaction to SKT relic weps went, we decided later on to make this next set more accessible to everyone. Plus, here is a title for unlocking relic weps." would have been a much nicer way to address this.

    Edit:
    lantern22 said:

    Maybe give these guys a Title "Ice Grinder" or something and we can have "I skipped Mod 10"

    Pre-empted, looks like :)

  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    dupeks said:

    But I'm also one of the folks that, in retrospect, spent wayyy too much time grinding stuff that was replaced seemingly in a heartbeat. It's hard not to feel deceived by the previous statements made by asterdahl with regards to SKT relic wep longevity.

    It's certainly turned me off from investing in grindy content (I suppose I should have known better, after the Golden weps of yore). And it's also made me more skeptical about any future dev comments of a similar nature.

    I checked, and I've already posted what I found but I'll dredge it up to re-post if you want, but the problem is (yet again) that players read more into a dev statement than what was literally on the screen in front of us. Don't mentally translate "it'll be good for a long time" into "it'll be the only thing this good for a long time". That's the take-home lesson.

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  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User

    As someone who did 5 boons on 2 toons in mod 10 and skipped SVA and the screwed relic gear (black ice mk2), the new mod 11 weapons will be just fine for me. I had 7 toons with twisted, the mod 11 weapons look like decent replacements.

    exactly.. this is a godsend..

    now for some non empowered armors..

    everything in neverwinter will be back to normal.. we can all start playing again and the game world gods will smile down on us!
    They could just remove empowerment from relic armor. People were already running all the content in the game without it so there isn't a need to replace it yet.
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  • evemjevemj Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    Close SOMI like you did gateway, give me a mount, and never speak of it again.
    Thanks.

    Also, the new weapons should be, as suggested before, between the EE and SKT ones; not on par with whatever people ground for for weeks and weeks.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User
    evemj said:

    Close SOMI like you did gateway, give me a mount, and never speak of it again.
    Thanks.

    Also, the new weapons should be, as suggested before, between the EE and SKT ones; not on par with whatever people ground for for weeks and weeks.

    Semantically speaking, that would be the Twisted, but I get your point.

    I would agree with this, but I am also glad that the majority of the playerbase will have an upgrade. In the end, I will begrudgingly admit that this is a good thing... although I would like some more "unique" set bonuses like the Elemental sets, which had different purposes.

    As someone who did 5 boons on 2 toons in mod 10 and skipped SVA and the screwed relic gear (black ice mk2), the new mod 11 weapons will be just fine for me. I had 7 toons with twisted, the mod 11 weapons look like decent replacements.

    exactly.. this is a godsend..

    now for some non empowered armors..

    everything in neverwinter will be back to normal.. we can all start playing again and the game world gods will smile down on us!
    Wait, what?

    Silver is happy with a decision made by the dev team?

    Error 404: windows of the soul has crashed. Please reboot your system after memory dump file has been collected.

  • superent666superent666 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    evemj said:

    Also, the new weapons should be, as suggested before, between the EE and SKT ones; not on par with whatever people ground for for weeks and weeks.

    No. Why? Because the horrifying grind for the relic weapons was a mistake. To make the new set be inferior to the relic set would mean to let the mistake stand which should not happen - not even for one mod. It made players miserable while grinding for it and would then continue to make players miserable - EVEN IF they decide they are not going for this set (because they cannot stomach it and after the key change it is even worse!) because they would then be grinding for a new but inferior set which isn´t exactly exhilarating. Thus even more unhappy players. Is it a viable goal for a gaming company to make players miserable? Nah.
    So the rational thing to do is to correct the mistake which apparently they are planning to do.

    It would be idiotic to continue a mistake. And you´d have to have funny ideas about justice/fairness to come up with: I suffered so everybody has to suffer...:P I frankly don´t want to. I opted to abort my feeble attempts to get the relic set because it wasn´t enjoyable...and that´s exactly what a game is supposed be?

    That being said it would be kind of honorable for the dev team to acknowledge that they made a boo boo and they are sorry for that and correct it going forward....to do so explicitly and not only implicitly by dialing down the crazy grind while offering an alternative.
    In addition to that I think it is important that the relic set - at least for certain builds- stays a perfectly viable BIS-option...and if the new sets turn out to be more powerful they should be dialed down to be EQUAL to the relic set.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,348 Arc User
    It's entirely possible that we'll see a course correction from Mod 10. I still remember the months after April 7, 2015: eventually they did come around and realize the mistake. Even though all the damage hasn't yet been undone, at least they're now moving the ball forward again (though, would you *please* dynamite that stupid boulder in ToS? The one that I'm always railing on about?)

    One very bright spot that I'd like to point out was the quest line in mod 8. The storytelling really made it stand out, and the mission with Makos to get the artifact -- what more is there to say? That. Was. Awesome. There is something to be said for storytelling.

    My gut tells me that we need other outlets than just grinding for better weapons. When you play pencil-and-paper D&D, one of the really fun parts is finding something in a dungeon that gives you a whole other potential direction to explore. These usually happen when an inspired DM has made his own campaign. From what little I've seen of the new campaign, the potential for that sort of thing might be just beginning to appear. At this point the game contains a lot of zones, each with their own players (by this I mean NPCs) and their own interests.

    Of course players want something for their trouble. I'd love to say that a good story will suffice, but we all know that isn't true for most players: otherwise the Foundry would be thriving. That said, take a look at everything we own: there are a lot more possibilities for customization if the game could support it. To me it seems like we need to broaden our horizons to more than just gear.
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  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User
    edited January 2017

    dupeks said:

    But I'm also one of the folks that, in retrospect, spent wayyy too much time grinding stuff that was replaced seemingly in a heartbeat. It's hard not to feel deceived by the previous statements made by asterdahl with regards to SKT relic wep longevity.

    It's certainly turned me off from investing in grindy content (I suppose I should have known better, after the Golden weps of yore). And it's also made me more skeptical about any future dev comments of a similar nature.

    I checked, and I've already posted what I found but I'll dredge it up to re-post if you want, but the problem is (yet again) that players read more into a dev statement than what was literally on the screen in front of us. Don't mentally translate "it'll be good for a long time" into "it'll be the only thing this good for a long time". That's the take-home lesson.
    "One of the strongest options for some time" read literally is borderline meaningless. In the context of the discussion, where folks were effectively asking whether it'd be worth the grind for the new weapons, the reply conveyed the sentiment "don't worry, it'll be worth your time for some time". Turns out that will likely won't be the case.
    asterdahl said:

    The special marks used for the relic weapons are exclusive to the relic weapons and we have no plans at present for those marks to be used on future weapon sets. I can't guarantee special marks will never be used again, but the next set of weapons we introduce will not require special marks. With that said, as obtaining those special marks is difficult and requires completing Assault on Svardborg (Master) you can expect the relic weapons to be one of the strongest options for some time.

    I know I also conflated the above with the below.
    asterdahl said:

    We absolutely have plans to continue releasing new items—armor and weapons included. At some point, we'd like to have a somewhat predictable cadence. We understand that for some players the source of frustration is the unpredictability.

    I can't say exactly when we will introduce a stronger set of equipment than relic armor, but I can say if you look at how long the dragonflight armor was essentially best in slot, we're not aiming for something too far off from that. I can certainly go as far as to say that there won't be a better set in Module 11.

    It just comes off as a "huzzah, GOTCHA suckers for assuming the best about the statement rather than the bare minimum." Just means next time we'll assume less, at the cost of a better relationship between devs and community.

    Edit: FWIW, I'm glad they are introducing more choices (as I said in my original comment too), and I'm glad it looks like they will be more accessible / alt-friendly. I'm just sad they didn't use this as an opportunity to present folks with a token of good will. Shame on us for having higher expectations, right?

    I also see the other side of it, somewhat. "You can also hold off on playing this content because we have more stuff on the way that will be more accessible" isn't exactly a good thing for a dev to say...

    All I can say is, I'm sad that the choice of words served to undermine the trust we have in devs. Some folks feel tricked, and it wasn't hard to predict they would feel that way given these decisions.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,379 Arc User
    I Never felt that doing svadbord was hard because of the knowning bug on a special daily thanks.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    You think this is bad?

    Just wait until the modify and or remove nerf all our new set bonuses 5 mods from now like they did before.

    I'm sick and tired of being bamboozled and hoodwinked out of my items time energy money efforts.

    There will never be any satisfactory justification for removing our set bonuses, changing how regeneration worked in combat, nerfing some classes to near permanent underdog status; while classes that are not designed to do huge dps are killing players in 1 to 2 hits. Introducing items in game that give class specific abilities to everyone that can farm them (stealth rings), flat out lies and constant change in direction like we are in beta mode while you take all our money and laugh. I would be surprised if there was a class action lawsuit looming in the shadows to slap this company back in the face.

    The new weapon's will always have something to replace them. That is the nature of the beast. However, core mechanics should not still be changing every time we get a new person at the helm of this crazy making ship.

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  • blinkndinkblinkndink Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    I play on Xbox and the fact that I've done around a 100 he's today and only got 4 dragon turtle moult 1 evermelt spring g water and 1 frozen far mistletoe is to say this is more than just a grind this the bs I've been doing g this for 8 hours stright
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    ghoulz66 said:

    Regardless of people getting cheated for so much time spent, the DEVs can't just make more campaigns with such a ridiculous amount of grinding involved. Just keep it simple like Underdark and the Dread Ring.

    Just leave SKT as the campaign for people who want to be maxed out as much as possible. Let it keep those grindy vivified gear.

    And the new weapon's weapon damage should be bumped down to be between twisted and relic. It shouldn't be as powerful. SKT has a T3 dungeon and a raid involved, mod 11 does apparently not have this so why would the weapons be on par?

    I almost agree but don't. they should up the damage/bonus on the relic weapons so they're clearly better and leave the new weapons alone. (imo) make it more like twisted vs the elemental artis.
  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited January 2017

    ghoulz66 said:

    Regardless of people getting cheated for so much time spent, the DEVs can't just make more campaigns with such a ridiculous amount of grinding involved. Just keep it simple like Underdark and the Dread Ring.

    Just leave SKT as the campaign for people who want to be maxed out as much as possible. Let it keep those grindy vivified gear.

    And the new weapon's weapon damage should be bumped down to be between twisted and relic. It shouldn't be as powerful. SKT has a T3 dungeon and a raid involved, mod 11 does apparently not have this so why would the weapons be on par?

    I almost agree but don't. they should up the damage/bonus on the relic weapons so they're clearly better and leave the new weapons alone. (imo) make it more like twisted vs the elemental artis.
    This is all I'd really want. +5 ilvl would be fine.

    But it's the end of the world for people like silver if the relic weapons are better.

    Nerfing the Mod 11 weapons solves nothing. It just creates more problems down the road.

    BS. New weapons are just another carrot when people can already easily outgear any of the content in the game outside of FBI.
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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    How about they just allow people who ground out mod 10.5 weapons, to exchange them for the new ones if they so choose? Will that work for most people?

    Also, they STILL should reduce the amount of grind needed for them..

    bajeebus hamster master us all..

    Mod 10 , was the lowest point of this game, in terms of game play (outside of fbi, fun, though totally non rewarding content)

    Anything that goes away from that, is a plus to me.

    I dont think new mod will even go far enough.. im sure it wont in fact.

    i don't think that would be enough. the cost is so much higher for the relic than the new weapon. even if it were a free exchange the people who ground it out without a clue still got hamstered. they need to give the relic weapon a bonus that is better than the new weapons.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    Quit trying to get the Mod 11 weapons nerfed or removed. They should be on par with Relic weapons, as SH weapons and Twisted are on par. Only those who exploited the chest decline bug have or can really get orange relic weapons. And then, you must be 3.2k IL, but really 4k IL.

    I think the problem is that they aren't on par. the new weapons are better than the relics. buff the relic imo. no nerf required.
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