Does it still take a day to make a key? Or did they speed that up like we asked?
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
The one good thing is that the change will hit all platforms at once so Cryptic will see the impact on all of them simultaneously.
My guess is that there will be an exodus of players across the board and those responsible will be held accountable by PWE.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of that change, I do believe I said that before.
But when it comes to gather the feedback, looking at the almighty "datas"Cryptic will find that for the last month, drop rate of the orange rings, pets, artifacts and other goodies went through the roof, thus they will say "gg guys".
I've done some runs, mostly HAMSTER for me I won't lie. I did get a green Cleric Disciple and a Purple Seldarine Artifact. So..something IS dropping indeed.
Oh woe is me I got 300k AD in drops but that's HAMSTER. Seriously?
I agree with something @ironzerg79 wrote a while back. Betting this reward should be possible without a key. 1st run of the day or Dungeon Delve as we remember it, should have a free chest open.
They key should be a bonus, a BONUS not a requirement, and that's paid one.
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
Oh woe is me I got 300k AD in drops but that's HAMSTER. Seriously?
Yes. Cuzz all what you can sell getting more and more worthless. And this is only possible if you got a lot of keys. Or you collected a lot keys with VIP. But why do i must have VIP to run dungeons more than 1 time a day? And sry....i got a lot drops too and i got a lot in AH. I can see prices melting every day. So if i say " i got drops for 300k" this can be tomorow only 200k and they day after tomorrow 100k etc....etc... But if it comes to legendary marks? This droprate is still hamster as hell. I feel so sry for new players if they wanna get relic weapons.
Oh woe is me I got 300k AD in drops but that's HAMSTER. Seriously?
Yes. Cuzz all what you can sell getting more and more worthless. And this is only possible if you got a lot of keys. Or you collected a lot keys with VIP. But why do i must have VIP to run dungeons more than 1 time a day? And sry....i got a lot drops too and i got a lot in AH. I can see prices melting every day. So if i say " i got drops for 300k" this can be tomorow only 200k and they day after tomorrow 100k etc....etc... But if it comes to legendary marks? This droprate is still hamster as hell. I feel so sry for new players if they wanna get relic weapons.
Until next mod lol.
The value on most items is relatively stable though. They'll adjust to lower than pre-key change values but they'll stabilize.
So the items that are tanking are items that drop from multiple sources e.g. Valindra's Shard/Lostmauth's Horn. They're on the normal dungeon chest loot table, the extra roll against random loot, and in lockboxes. But say Heart of the Blue Dragon will hold steady at 500k AD.
Well thats me done with spending my money on zen this key change is a slap in the face for your players once keys are used up getting rubbish from chests there is no point in playing anymore as there is no chance i am purchasing keys from you now maybe if i ran out of keys from choosing what loot to take i might of got some but no im done! Why dont you make something thats worth purchasing zen for that the players want like an unbind token that allows you to unbind one item from your inventory or something where you can change from character bound item to account bound to change it to your char that you want now that is useful! people will want to spend money then and want to play but this is ruining your fan base listen to the people and dont ignore them make something useful rather then forcing players to spend zen on keys to carry on farming the dungeons they want!
Well thats me done with spending my money on zen this key change is a slap in the face for your players once keys are used up getting rubbish from chests there is no point in playing anymore as there is no chance i am purchasing keys from you now maybe if i ran out of keys from choosing what loot to take i might of got some but no im done!
Players primarily focusing on Dungeons and little of the other content is probably PART of the reason for the key change. Similar to how players were power leveling in the Stronghold (seen as exploiting game mechanics?) and parading it around on the internet like skipping about 3/4's of the content by doing so wouldn't be frowned upon.
I could see Cryptic sitting around the table saying "since players want to go straight to 70 without much effort how about we cut the SH XP and offer a lvl 70 character package on the Zen market (which has a pretty good value with what it gives)?".
Same thing with the dungeon key change, "since players want to run Dungeons all day and not engage in other content that is still relevant how about we fix the key bug making dungeons keys be consumed upon opening a chest?"
Dungeon chests are optional, not required, Bosses can drop high value loot as well so if players don't want to buy keys they can farm the Bosses (the Grand 4k players should be able to do 15-20 minute or less runs correct?). 300 Zen for 5 keys (5 more dungeon chests) is still good. Keys are not guaranteed to return value equal to or greater than 300 Zen and this is what a LOT of players fail to realize or consciously overlook (just like lottery tickets, if you buy $300 worth you are NOT guaranteed to get a return of $300 plain and simple).
I'm willing to bet if players had been not been Zerging dungeons, peeking in chests and running them over and over as they had been this change probably wouldn't have happened but since a large portion of the player base were doing so it probably revealed a possible market for it and or a speed bump to encourage older content which it does (older dungeons granting new loot). It's a cat and mouse game, sometimes we the players are the cat, sometimes we are the mouse. Companies/businesses sometimes put things out there and or intentionally leave in vulnerabilities to see the response to it then go back and see if there is a market or if a market can be created from permanently implementing them or fixing a vulnerability, they pretty much do it all the time.
Post edited by trinity706#8838 on
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
null So what about the players who dont have zen or the money to pay to play which is the way it seems to be going getting to 70 means you have gone through the campaign that they offer done everything thats required all of the quest etc most high end players have done this for the boons so most of the game has been done bar pvp (which is a different path of the game) but now for them to get better theyll need to buy keys and spend the money on hoping to get good drops out of boxes and bosses rarely drop anything decent when have you seen orcus drop anything decent? Best ive seen is a rank 7 all the best stuff drop from the boxes and everyone knows this and this is why theyve changed it to try make to players buy keys so they spend more money but in doing so it has alienated alot of players from the game look at all the comments people don't just pretend to dislike an idea they actually dislike it especially when they say they're not going to do something because they have "listened" to the players then turn around and do it anyway it was never a bug because it has been this way for years they've called it a bug to try and justify the change
Players primarily focusing on Dungeons and little of the other content is probably PART of the reason for the key change. Similar to how players were power leveling in the Stronghold (seen as exploiting game mechanics?) and parading it around on the internet like skipping about 3/4's of the content by doing so wouldn't be frowned upon.
I could see Cryptic sitting around the table saying "since players want to go straight to 70 without much effort how about we cut the SH XP and offer a lvl 70 character package on the Zen market (which has a pretty good value with what it gives)?".
Same thing with the dungeon key change, "since players want to run Dungeons all day and not engage in other content that is still relevant how about we fix the key bug making dungeons keys be consumed upon opening a chest?"
Dungeon chests are optional, not required, Bosses can drop high value loot as well so if players don't want to buy keys they can farm the Bosses (the Grand 4k players should be able to do 15-20 minute or less runs correct?). 300 Zen for 5 keys (5 more dungeon chests) is still good. Keys are not guaranteed to return value equal to or greater than 300 Zen and this is what a LOT of players fail to realize or consciously overlook (just like lottery tickets, if you buy $300 worth you are NOT guaranteed to get a return of $300 plain and simple).
I'm willing to bet if players had been not been Zerging dungeons, peeking in chests and running them over and over as they had been this change probably wouldn't have happened but since a large portion of the player base were doing so it probably revealed a possible market for it and or a speed bump to encourage older content which it does (older dungeons granting new loot). It's a cat and mouse game, sometimes we the players are the cat, sometimes we are the mouse. Companies/businesses sometimes put things out there and or intentionally leave in vulnerabilities to see the response to it then go back and see if there is a market or if a market can be created from permanently implementing them or fixing a vulnerability, they pretty much do it all the time.
We did our zones. We did our leveling. We did our campgs. and got them to 100 % when you did not have an option to " buy it out " . When the bosses where much harder. And content had to be " adjusted " to the level of the players. When ECC was not a child play it is now. Or when Lair of the Mad Dragon was a hard dungeon to do. We stayed at campfires for hours at the time trying to figure out what to use, do and what we need to improve in order to be able to finish the dungeon. And sometimes we sucked and did not finish it. But that reward at the end was enough of motivation to try again. Tell me, do you remember that time ?
Why should i then go back to the same zones, to grind for the same things i already grinded for when i was leveling my char. in the first place?
The loot from bosses ? You mean peridots ? Why are we then doing dungeons if not for the loot and chest at the end ? The question all players ask themself is simple. What's in it for us ? What can i get if i do this ? Is it worth my time , money and the end effort you put into leveling your character in the first place. Why did i even bother leveling my char. so high if not to do the hardest content ? Are we in an online casino or are we playing Neverwinter Online ; Dungeon and Dragons?
devs, absolutly no green or blue gems in any epic dungeons, those are pure junks, we can get those drop anywhere from trash mobs if we need more trash gems and they are random. most expected those epic dungeons are better quality loots. and you are not doing it RIGHT!
Dungeon chests are optional, not required, Bosses can drop high value loot as well so if players don't want to buy keys they can farm the Bosses (the Grand 4k players should be able to do 15-20 minute or less runs correct?). 300 Zen for 5 keys (5 more dungeon chests) is still good. Keys are not guaranteed to return value equal to or greater than 300 Zen and this is what a LOT of players fail to realize or consciously overlook (just like lottery tickets, if you buy $300 worth you are NOT guaranteed to get a return of $300 plain and simple).
That is plain nonsense. In D&D, players are supposed to be REWARDED for running dungeons. For every run. How can it possibly a reward if you have less after running a dungeon than you had before you ran it? How can a minuscule chance of increasing your "wealth" be regarded as a reward?
That is plain nonsense. In D&D, players are supposed to be REWARDED for running dungeons. For every run. How can it possibly a reward if you have less after running a dungeon than you had before you ran it? How can a minuscule chance of increasing your "wealth" be regarded as a reward?
Players ARE rewarded for running dungeons, the small chance at high value loot is NOT the reward. Out of all the Bosses in a dungeon pretty much one will SOMETHING (not to mention the mobs), it may not be what they want but it is more than what they went in with.
With a "minimal" amount of effort players can craft keys to open a chest(s) at the end of a dungeon(s), crafting those keys is OPTIONAL, players don't have to though if they want to open the chest(s) with minimal effort they will and or acquire LDK's.
As far as the LDK's go, acquiring those is OPTIONAL as well, players don't have to acquire them though if they want to open multiple end chests on consecutive runs of the same dungeon and or not craft a key, they will.
If players acquire LDK's and their return is less than the value of the keys then that is the chance they consciously chose to take, again, plain and simple.
Post edited by trinity706#8838 on
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Players ARE rewarded for running dungeons, the small chance at high value loot is NOT the reward. Out of all the Bosses in a dungeon pretty much one will SOMETHING (not to mention the mobs), it may not be what they want but it is more than what they went in with.
With a "minimal" amount of effort players can craft keys to open a chest(s) at the end of a dungeon(s), crafting those keys is OPTIONAL, players don't have to though if they want to open the chest(s) with minimal effort they will and or acquire LDK's.
As far as the LDK's go, acquiring those is OPTIONAL as well, players don't have to acquire them though if they want to open multiple end chests on consecutive runs of the same dungeon and or not craft a key, they will.
If players acquire LDK's and their return is less than the value of the keys then that is the chance they consciously chose to take, again, plain and simple.
You are still wrong, because if a player ignores the chests (and hence the costs and time for creating the keys) completly and relies on boss drops only, he is more often than not left with no drop from any boss, which means more often than not NO REWARD at all. (Not to mention that for the "reward" of a peridot, r5 or aquamarine noone needs to run a dungeon - mobs in any area drop these, too.)
Only with a key it is guaranteed that the players gets some reward at all, but again, more often than not the reward is no reward because the costs are (more often than not) higher than the reward.
You have to stop this nonsense about 300zen is nothing... 80% of players or more have ony 1 character and use one or two others as livings bags to store items not to play...
So again 36k/40k per day ( dunjeons, skirmish, pvp + selling junk rings at ah) = 100z per day You need 3 days of this routine to get 5 keys... During the time you do that, you're not doing anything else...
Of course if you don't have a real life, 2 hours per day to make ad to buy keys seems reasonable...
I loled at " boss drop stuff". I ve been playing since day 1 on ps4, i never seen a boss droping something exept pure <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ( exept purples ring in etos binded and so for useless)
Admiting that, i 'll do 3 or 4 cn in an hour or so and and a elol and the 5 keys are gone... And i go back for 3 days of ad farming before i can use another key ????
Fun fact and not related to the topic : Yesterday i join queued CN and find myself at the entrance of orcus room... There was no tank and very low gs players...
They were about to quit after an hour trying. I said : just stay alive i'll kill him alone with long range dps...
The dc who died from the very begining "win" orcus shard while i did 99% of the job alone and get a orcus + 1 and the rest even worth mention (PS4)...
I run CN mostly for r8 runes, keeping them for x2 refinement as the keys dont cost gold... I forget the idea of ever droping a shard...
You guys should check the green one. It was down to 100 k yesterday. I am not kidding. XD
Good idea, complain about the drop rate! Why don't you ask for "please revert to the old insane droprate, except for my account!" I am sure Cryptic will "adjust" (=revert back to last week) soon enough.
Who is complaining ? I mentioned they should go check the price for the * thingy * . Cos it is amazing that it is down to 100k. Is that a complain ? I do not think so. Do not be so aggro , please.
I will however complain about the key change. Wait i already did. Btw did i mention i lost 2 guildies yesterday to a new game they found.
You are still wrong, because if a player ignores the chests (and hence the costs and time for creating the keys) completly and relies on boss drops only, he is more often than not left with no drop from any boss, which means more often than not NO REWARD at all. (Not to mention that for the "reward" of a peridot, r5 or aquamarine noone needs to run a dungeon - mobs in any area drop these, too.)
Only with a key it is guaranteed that the players gets some reward at all, but again, more often than not the reward is no reward because the costs are (more often than not) higher than the reward.
False. Ignoring chests and creating keys are both optional. A player can't ignore a chest and or choose not to create a key then complain about their reward(s) from Boss/mob drops or lack thereof in a dungeon. No matter what a Boss/mob drops inside a dungeon, it doesn't negate the fact that it still grants a player more than what they came in with.
Keys are not needed to run a dungeon, only to open a chest. The same resources used to create a key are the same resources used to create vouchers for a Guild coffer so if players want to use their resources solely for crafting keys and not getting the return they want instead of sometimes putting it towards something that is GUARANTEED to give a higher return on investment (higher Guild rank, Boon structures, etc.) that is their choice.
Pretty much one of the ONLY things guaranteed to give a greater return on investment in this game are Guilds, again a LOT of people consciously over look this part of the game.
You have to stop this nonsense about 300zen is nothing...
80% of players or more have ony 1 character and use one or two others as livings bags to store items not to play...
So again 36k/40k per day ( dunjeons, skirmish, pvp + selling junk rings at ah) = 100z per day
You need 3 days of this routine to get 5 keys...
During the time you do that, you're not doing anything else...
I loled at " boss drop stuff". I ve been playing since day 1 on ps4, i never seen a boss droping something exept pure HAMSTER ( exept purples ring in etos binded and so for useless)
Who stated 300 Zen was nothing? I stated ways to generate the AD to buy keys if that is what someone wants to do. If your play time is limited and you are only able to generate X amount of AD a day then by all means proceed within that amount, eventually you will get to the point where you can get more done in less time if you choose. Also if you want to do your current routine for three days and then play that is your choice.
False. Ignoring chests and creating keys are both optional. A player can't ignore a chest and or choose not to create a key then complain about their reward(s) from Boss/mob drops or lack thereof in a dungeon. No matter what a Boss/mob drops inside a dungeon, it doesn't negate the fact that it still grants a player more than what they came in with.
That's exactly the kind of ... uhm... ok, let's still say... "argument" that I would expect from Cryptic. "Hey, what do you want? You came with nothing and just after 45 minutes of CN you got a peridot as a reward from a boss drop! For free! You lucky, lucky b*stard! :-)"
I omit the rest of your post (as it contains more nonsense in my opinion) and try to say it once more clearly, perhaps you get it then: In a D&D game, dungeons are supposed to REWARD the players. EVERY TIME they run a dungeon. In NWO, that is not the case. Almost never.
The issue with the dungeon key change now is that now after the change, the players effectively have to PAY for the CHANCE to get a reward.
That's exactly the kind of ... uhm... ok, let's still say... "argument" that I would expect from Cryptic. "Hey, what do you want? You came with nothing and just after 45 minutes of CN you got a peridot as a reward from a boss drop! For free! You lucky, lucky b*stard! :-)"
I omit the rest of your post (as it contains more nonsense in my opinion) and try to say it once more clearly, perhaps you get it then: In a D&D game, dungeons are supposed to REWARD the players. EVERY TIME they run a dungeon. In NWO, that is not the case. Almost never.
The issue with the dungeon key change now is that now after the change, the players effectively have to PAY for the CHANCE to get a reward.
Players only pay for keys if they want and or don't have the in-game means to accrue AD for them and just because you don't consider lower value items from dungeon Bosses/mobs as rewards for running a dungeon doesn't solidify your argument.
Just in case you didn't see it before @therealprotex here's a screenshot of a Boss drop, no key, just a plain Boss drop that so many claim does NOT happen...
As long as ^^^ continues to happen the various arguments of "players have to pay to open chests to get something", "bosses don't drop anything good" and the like are quite invalid seeing as opening a chest is NOT required for high value items.
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“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
In Destiny there was something nice with end game dunjeons...
A set of armor was composed by 4 pieces. Each boss of the dunjeon would grant you a good chance or guaranted piece and a chance of "exotic armor/weapon ( a real good chance ) of the set. BUT... The stats of the piece would be random so you could hope for let's say crit and end up with stamina, ect...
To be fair in a few weeks i had every piece i needed... The downpart was that i did not have a reason to run the dunjeon anymore exept for exotics or help friends. But it could take a lot longer for others people to get the exact pieces they wanted. The loot of this dunjeon was only once a time by week otherwise it would be done in a few hours or days.
(Are we supose to run the same dunjeons ad nausea until our brains become sea sponges ? I dont think so.)
That way, you were rewarded for every dunjeon. That's how things should be. Ofc, a 10th piece you already have dont help you at all but at least it wasnt a joke like a peridot or <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like orcus blue rings.. There was no auction or selling but some kind of trading...
These blue stuff are an insult to us, i prefer nothing than a frakking peridot.
In Destiny, there was secret achievements and mysterys in dunjeon that took quite a lot of time to be resolved With the lore of D&D, there should stuff like that in dunjeons instead of only watching numbers flying on the screen. A reason to enjoy searching and digging intead of only want to go to the final chest...
they should cut in half the requirements to make keys for the "lesser" dungeons which I consider elol and below. So make it half the time and half the resources to make a key for those dungeons. This solves some of the problem (for not vet max players).
For maxed out players (running CN and up) they should allow us to create something like a legendary key that allows us to open chests in any of the dungeons. Keep it the same amount of time to create as now but not as much resource.
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therealprotexMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 526Arc User
Players only pay for keys if they want and or don't have the in-game means to accrue AD for them and just because you don't consider lower value items from dungeon Bosses/mobs as rewards for running a dungeon doesn't solidify your argument.
That alone does not solidify my argument, that's true. But some other things maybe.
What about Cryptic's own statement that "time" is considered a currency equivalent to real cash. So if a player invests ANY currency in a dungeon run, be it by spending time or money, what kind of player would feel rewarded if he gets less from the run than he invested? And I am pretty sure that more than 99% of the player base will agree that a peridot (or even nothing) is MUCH less than the time invested in a 45 minute CN run.
Another hint that my argument is not that far-fetched should give you the overall and massively negative reaction to this change of the community in the forum and the player base in the game. All goofy except you? Maybe, but unlikely.
Just in case you didn't see it before @therealprotex here's a screenshot of a Boss drop, no key, just a plain Boss drop that so many claim does NOT happen...
As long as ^^^ continues to happen the various arguments of "players have to pay to open chests to get something", "bosses don't drop anything good" and the like are quite invalid seeing as opening a chest is NOT required for high value items.
Ah, and here you show that you truely did not get what most of us are talking about. Perhaps re-read the posts again? Noone claimed that you HAVE TO open the chests to get something or that bosses NEVER drop anything good. I always wrote "more often than not" the player gets not properly rewarded. But - once again - in D&D the player is supposed to get rewarded for EVERY dungeon run. Just imaging how often you'd join a DM for a tabletop D&D game where he gave you in 10% only a reward that compensates your investment? Or where you have to pay him some money for a key to increase your reward chance?
going to post screen caps of drops i get today after the update is finished for ps4, if that is ok, in this thread. the only epic dungeons i don't do are crag/wolf and fbi(too low).
@nitocris83 when are the patch notes going to be released?
Apparently, they dropped a little over 2 hours before maintenance the day of (today). Though, it wasn't announced until maintenance had already gone underway. The patch notes can be viewed here
Way to go with formally informing your player base in a timely manner...
So, I think we players on PS4 should use this Google Sheet to record what we get from our dungeons. Anyone can edit the document and I expect it to get quite long very quickly. Let's see what changed and if anyone gets better and/or interesting rewards.
I've gotten 3 rare unbound mounts, a Bear Cub, Waters of Elhazad, an Astral Deva, Shard of Orcus's Wand and an Epic Greater belt of Seldarine. I've gotten a Kessell's Spheres of Annihilation and epic Rust Monster bound. This is over three days (6-10 dungeons a day) and aside aside from the bear they all dropped from epic dungeon chests. The drop rates on these items themselves may be relatively low (I've yet to get a duplicate), but getting a drop from the enormous loot table they're part of is actually pretty high. Honestly this is one of the better changes Cryptic has made because it encourages people to run dungeons. Anyone that hasn't seen anything positive come out of this is either not in a guild or isn't running dungeons.
Heck, I had a guildmate get a rare air archon from VT. That's 700k from a T1 that you can get the campaign chest from easily and takes all of seven minutes to complete.
@urabask sadly anecdotal evidence will always be that. I've gained over this weekend alone: a +5 ring of cowardice (lesser demonic key in throne), Horn of blasting (boss drop), Hoard Necklace (regular epic chest drop), demogorgon's girdle of might from regular demo, and several + 4s that I no longer need and are therefore consigned to forgetfulness and salvage. My testimony of what is undoubtedly a quite profitable weekend should reinforce the testimony of those who are reporting their increased drop rates right?
Well, here's the kicker: I play on PS4, so all of these gains were obtained before the loot tables have changed. Point being, RNG is gonna RNG, and I had quite the lucky weekend indeed, but unless cryptic covertly changed the drop rates before the patch, it's all still luck bound.
I have obviously no problem with increased drop rates. But what no one can deny is that for every success story, there are still plenty of dud chests laying about, and nowhere near enough evidence that the end result will be positive for players. And once the few spares I have run out, if the end result of my spending 40 minutes in well of dragons followed by 20 hours of waiting for a key to be made is a bunch of green stones in Lostmauth, it still won't be worth it.
They could of course increase the base net value we gain from chests, even if we obviously won't hit the jackpot every single run. But surely they won't do that. they could and should prevent bound drops, for obvious reasons (what use will that bound rust monster be when you have all your rust monster demands met), but failing that, a system to trade those bound companions we don't need for something we can actually use is a necessity. And most of all, they should streamline the process by which these keys are made. Hell, they do it already for all the underdark content which already drops the materials needed to make the keys to run those contents, and this should be the norm for all the epics: Vryptic maintains its dearly beloved dripfeeding of content, but we gain the resources to play the content by playing the actual content and not by running sidequests wherein resources are shared with boons and our ever hungrier stronghold mimic.
So, while the change is not without its merits, if changes are not implemented, the gold rush will dry up in tandem with the spare keys, the market will crash from the newfound abundance and a lack of new pies in the sky for players to chase. And when that happens I'll have to fish. And I really did not sign up to a D&D rpg to fish.
"Players primarily focusing on Dungeons and little of the other content is probably PART of the reason for the key change. " @trinity706#8838 Well, I'd say to this nonsense that:
-if the devs don't want us to focus on dungeons and skirmishes, then they shouldn't make them the sole source of rough ad revenue (not to mention pretty much the main way to regularly get rewards other than refinables). - That I've seen how lukewarm and unengaging the vast majority of the endgame areas are. Static maps with a "to do" list of activities is anything but compelling gameplay, especially when stretched over the course of months. - That some people get their enjoyment out of a dungeons and dragons game, out of running dungeons. Go figure, eh?
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Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
I agree with something @ironzerg79 wrote a while back. Betting this reward should be possible without a key.
1st run of the day or Dungeon Delve as we remember it, should have a free chest open.
They key should be a bonus, a BONUS not a requirement, and that's paid one.
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
And sry....i got a lot drops too and i got a lot in AH. I can see prices melting every day. So if i say " i got drops for 300k" this can be tomorow only 200k and they day after tomorrow 100k etc....etc...
But if it comes to legendary marks? This droprate is still hamster as hell. I feel so sry for new players if they wanna get relic weapons.
The value on most items is relatively stable though. They'll adjust to lower than pre-key change values but they'll stabilize.
So the items that are tanking are items that drop from multiple sources e.g. Valindra's Shard/Lostmauth's Horn. They're on the normal dungeon chest loot table, the extra roll against random loot, and in lockboxes. But say Heart of the Blue Dragon will hold steady at 500k AD.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
So what about the players who dont have zen or the money to pay to play which is the way it seems to be going getting to 70 means you have gone through the campaign that they offer done everything thats required all of the quest etc most high end players have done this for the boons so most of the game has been done bar pvp (which is a different path of the game) but now for them to get better theyll need to buy keys and spend the money on hoping to get good drops out of boxes and bosses rarely drop anything decent when have you seen orcus drop anything decent? Best ive seen is a rank 7 all the best stuff drop from the boxes and everyone knows this and this is why theyve changed it to try make to players buy keys so they spend more money but in doing so it has alienated alot of players from the game look at all the comments people don't just pretend to dislike an idea they actually dislike it especially when they say they're not going to do something because they have "listened" to the players then turn around and do it anyway it was never a bug because it has been this way for years they've called it a bug to try and justify the change
We did our zones. We did our leveling.
We did our campgs. and got them to 100 % when you did not have an option to " buy it out " .
When the bosses where much harder. And content had to be " adjusted " to the level of the players.
When ECC was not a child play it is now. Or when Lair of the Mad Dragon was a hard dungeon to do.
We stayed at campfires for hours at the time trying to figure out what to use, do and what we need to improve in order to be able to finish the dungeon.
And sometimes we sucked and did not finish it.
But that reward at the end was enough of motivation to try again. Tell me, do you remember that time ?
Why should i then go back to the same zones, to grind for the same things i already grinded for when i was leveling my char. in the first place?
The loot from bosses ? You mean peridots ?
Why are we then doing dungeons if not for the loot and chest at the end ?
The question all players ask themself is simple. What's in it for us ?
What can i get if i do this ?
Is it worth my time , money and the end effort you put into leveling your character in the first place.
Why did i even bother leveling my char. so high if not to do the hardest content ?
Are we in an online casino or are we playing Neverwinter Online ; Dungeon and Dragons?
Character: Vendetta
Players ARE rewarded for running dungeons, the small chance at high value loot is NOT the reward. Out of all the Bosses in a dungeon pretty much one will SOMETHING (not to mention the mobs), it may not be what they want but it is more than what they went in with.
With a "minimal" amount of effort players can craft keys to open a chest(s) at the end of a dungeon(s), crafting those keys is OPTIONAL, players don't have to though if they want to open the chest(s) with minimal effort they will and or acquire LDK's.
As far as the LDK's go, acquiring those is OPTIONAL as well, players don't have to acquire them though if they want to open multiple end chests on consecutive runs of the same dungeon and or not craft a key, they will.
If players acquire LDK's and their return is less than the value of the keys then that is the chance they consciously chose to take, again, plain and simple.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Only with a key it is guaranteed that the players gets some reward at all, but again, more often than not the reward is no reward because the costs are (more often than not) higher than the reward.
80% of players or more have ony 1 character and use one or two others as livings bags to store items not to play...
So again 36k/40k per day ( dunjeons, skirmish, pvp + selling junk rings at ah) = 100z per day
You need 3 days of this routine to get 5 keys...
During the time you do that, you're not doing anything else...
Of course if you don't have a real life, 2 hours per day to make ad to buy keys seems reasonable...
I loled at " boss drop stuff". I ve been playing since day 1 on ps4, i never seen a boss droping something exept pure <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ( exept purples ring in etos binded and so for useless)
Admiting that, i 'll do 3 or 4 cn in an hour or so and and a elol and the 5 keys are gone...
And i go back for 3 days of ad farming before i can use another key ????
Fun fact and not related to the topic :
Yesterday i join queued CN and find myself at the entrance of orcus room...
There was no tank and very low gs players...
They were about to quit after an hour trying. I said : just stay alive i'll kill him alone with long range dps...
The dc who died from the very begining "win" orcus shard while i did 99% of the job alone and get a orcus + 1 and the rest even worth mention (PS4)...
I run CN mostly for r8 runes, keeping them for x2 refinement as the keys dont cost gold... I forget the idea of ever droping a shard...
If you read this, i hate you xD
I mentioned they should go check the price for the * thingy * .
Cos it is amazing that it is down to 100k. Is that a complain ? I do not think so.
Do not be so aggro , please.
I will however complain about the key change. Wait i already did. Btw did i mention i lost 2 guildies yesterday to a new game they found.
There. Feel better now ? I complained.
Keys are not needed to run a dungeon, only to open a chest. The same resources used to create a key are the same resources used to create vouchers for a Guild coffer so if players want to use their resources solely for crafting keys and not getting the return they want instead of sometimes putting it towards something that is GUARANTEED to give a higher return on investment (higher Guild rank, Boon structures, etc.) that is their choice.
Pretty much one of the ONLY things guaranteed to give a greater return on investment in this game are Guilds, again a LOT of people consciously over look this part of the game. Who stated 300 Zen was nothing? I stated ways to generate the AD to buy keys if that is what someone wants to do. If your play time is limited and you are only able to generate X amount of AD a day then by all means proceed within that amount, eventually you will get to the point where you can get more done in less time if you choose. Also if you want to do your current routine for three days and then play that is your choice.
But here you go...
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
I love your RNG. Nicely done! Can i kidnap you for a dungeon sometimes ? Maybe your luck rubs of me.
I omit the rest of your post (as it contains more nonsense in my opinion) and try to say it once more clearly, perhaps you get it then: In a D&D game, dungeons are supposed to REWARD the players. EVERY TIME they run a dungeon. In NWO, that is not the case. Almost never.
The issue with the dungeon key change now is that now after the change, the players effectively have to PAY for the CHANCE to get a reward.
Hmmm... maybe? LoL
Players only pay for keys if they want and or don't have the in-game means to accrue AD for them and just because you don't consider lower value items from dungeon Bosses/mobs as rewards for running a dungeon doesn't solidify your argument.
Just in case you didn't see it before @therealprotex here's a screenshot of a Boss drop, no key, just a plain Boss drop that so many claim does NOT happen...
As long as ^^^ continues to happen the various arguments of "players have to pay to open chests to get something", "bosses don't drop anything good" and the like are quite invalid seeing as opening a chest is NOT required for high value items.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
A set of armor was composed by 4 pieces.
Each boss of the dunjeon would grant you a good chance or guaranted piece and a chance of "exotic armor/weapon ( a real good chance ) of the set.
BUT... The stats of the piece would be random so you could hope for let's say crit and end up with stamina, ect...
To be fair in a few weeks i had every piece i needed... The downpart was that i did not have a reason to run the dunjeon anymore exept for exotics or help friends.
But it could take a lot longer for others people to get the exact pieces they wanted.
The loot of this dunjeon was only once a time by week otherwise it would be done in a few hours or days.
(Are we supose to run the same dunjeons ad nausea until our brains become sea sponges ? I dont think so.)
That way, you were rewarded for every dunjeon. That's how things should be.
Ofc, a 10th piece you already have dont help you at all but at least it wasnt a joke like a peridot or <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like orcus blue rings..
There was no auction or selling but some kind of trading...
These blue stuff are an insult to us, i prefer nothing than a frakking peridot.
In Destiny, there was secret achievements and mysterys in dunjeon that took quite a lot of time to be resolved
With the lore of D&D, there should stuff like that in dunjeons instead of only watching numbers flying on the screen.
A reason to enjoy searching and digging intead of only want to go to the final chest...
For maxed out players (running CN and up) they should allow us to create something like a legendary key that allows us to open chests in any of the dungeons. Keep it the same amount of time to create as now but not as much resource.
What about Cryptic's own statement that "time" is considered a currency equivalent to real cash. So if a player invests ANY currency in a dungeon run, be it by spending time or money, what kind of player would feel rewarded if he gets less from the run than he invested? And I am pretty sure that more than 99% of the player base will agree that a peridot (or even nothing) is MUCH less than the time invested in a 45 minute CN run.
Another hint that my argument is not that far-fetched should give you the overall and massively negative reaction to this change of the community in the forum and the player base in the game. All goofy except you? Maybe, but unlikely. Ah, and here you show that you truely did not get what most of us are talking about. Perhaps re-read the posts again? Noone claimed that you HAVE TO open the chests to get something or that bosses NEVER drop anything good. I always wrote "more often than not" the player gets not properly rewarded. But - once again - in D&D the player is supposed to get rewarded for EVERY dungeon run. Just imaging how often you'd join a DM for a tabletop D&D game where he gave you in 10% only a reward that compensates your investment? Or where you have to pay him some money for a key to increase your reward chance?
The patch notes can be viewed here
Way to go with formally informing your player base in a timely manner...
So, I think we players on PS4 should use this Google Sheet to record what we get from our dungeons. Anyone can edit the document and I expect it to get quite long very quickly. Let's see what changed and if anyone gets better and/or interesting rewards.
@urabask sadly anecdotal evidence will always be that. I've gained over this weekend alone: a +5 ring of cowardice (lesser demonic key in throne), Horn of blasting (boss drop), Hoard Necklace (regular epic chest drop), demogorgon's girdle of might from regular demo, and several + 4s that I no longer need and are therefore consigned to forgetfulness and salvage. My testimony of what is undoubtedly a quite profitable weekend should reinforce the testimony of those who are reporting their increased drop rates right?
Well, here's the kicker: I play on PS4, so all of these gains were obtained before the loot tables have changed. Point being, RNG is gonna RNG, and I had quite the lucky weekend indeed, but unless cryptic covertly changed the drop rates before the patch, it's all still luck bound.
I have obviously no problem with increased drop rates. But what no one can deny is that for every success story, there are still plenty of dud chests laying about, and nowhere near enough evidence that the end result will be positive for players. And once the few spares I have run out, if the end result of my spending 40 minutes in well of dragons followed by 20 hours of waiting for a key to be made is a bunch of green stones in Lostmauth, it still won't be worth it.
They could of course increase the base net value we gain from chests, even if we obviously won't hit the jackpot every single run. But surely they won't do that. they could and should prevent bound drops, for obvious reasons (what use will that bound rust monster be when you have all your rust monster demands met), but failing that, a system to trade those bound companions we don't need for something we can actually use is a necessity. And most of all, they should streamline the process by which these keys are made. Hell, they do it already for all the underdark content which already drops the materials needed to make the keys to run those contents, and this should be the norm for all the epics: Vryptic maintains its dearly beloved dripfeeding of content, but we gain the resources to play the content by playing the actual content and not by running sidequests wherein resources are shared with boons and our ever hungrier stronghold mimic.
So, while the change is not without its merits, if changes are not implemented, the gold rush will dry up in tandem with the spare keys, the market will crash from the newfound abundance and a lack of new pies in the sky for players to chase. And when that happens I'll have to fish. And I really did not sign up to a D&D rpg to fish.
"Players primarily focusing on Dungeons and little of the other content is probably PART of the reason for the key change. "
@trinity706#8838 Well, I'd say to this nonsense that:
-if the devs don't want us to focus on dungeons and skirmishes, then they shouldn't make them the sole source of rough ad revenue (not to mention pretty much the main way to regularly get rewards other than refinables).
- That I've seen how lukewarm and unengaging the vast majority of the endgame areas are. Static maps with a "to do" list of activities is anything but compelling gameplay, especially when stretched over the course of months.
- That some people get their enjoyment out of a dungeons and dragons game, out of running dungeons. Go figure, eh?