Iron Vanguard

kurialv · November 2016

Referring to the title above, let's discuss about this Paragon Path. Swordmaster's Steel Defense/Steel Grace is still considered overpower even being nerf to 3 seconds from 6 seconds after Mod 10.

Share your gameplay and guide as IV. Is Ferocious Reaction the best option?

dread4moor · December 2016

Ferocious reaction:
Bad. Minimal HP recovery, long cool down and takes up a passive slot almost always needed for build-specific powers .
There are half a dozen better life-preservers then FR (eg. Certain Mount Insignia bonuses).

In general, SM has more to offer then IV for Tact and Conq. SMStrike, Crescendo and (to a lesser extent due to the nerf) steel defense are good.

There are exceptions.

Bowser IV and a few other Protector builds use IV because of a synergy mechanic associated with Threatening Rush that makes it push the boundaries of WAI.

rjc9000 · December 2016

dread4moor said:
Ferocious reaction:

Bad. Minimal HP recovery, long cool down and takes up a passive slot almost always needed for build-specific powers .

There are half a dozen better life-preservers then FR (eg. Certain Mount Insignia bonuses).

In general, SM has more to offer then IV for Tact and Conq. WMStrike, Crescendo and (to a lesser extent due to the nerf) steel defense are good.

There are exceptions.

Bowser IV and a few other Protector builds use IV because of a synergy mechanic associated with Threatening Rush that makes it push the boundaries of WAI.

@dread4moor has mostly covered why Reaction is atrocious as well as general SM vs IV discussions.

Conqueror-wise, I would say that Swordmaster wins in PvE.

WMS is the GF's best AoE at-will, hands down.
Steel Grace is great for its run-speed bonus and its Crit bonus. (And its Deflect bonus, I guess).
Crescendo is a decent burst daily attack (although I will say Indomitable Strength is quite amusing).

You could argue that Trample the Fallen is worth considering for a DPS build, but Shield Warrior's Wrath is the same thing but better. Shield Warrior's Wrath synergizes well with the Conq capstone and is universal to both GF paths, meaning that you can take Swordmaster for all of the SM goodies. Even if you took the feat for Trample, Conq GFs should be generating loads of threat anyways and the extra weapon damage thing and I doubt that the weapon damage addition will dramatically increase your DPS.

Tactician-wise, I would only pick Iron Vanguard for Threatening Rush, which is a gapcloser, marker, and has a really weird debuff (it's complicated, but @michela123's debuff spreadsheet states that Rush has the normal 8% mark debuff in addition to another debuff). Useful, but I generally dislike Rush, because you can't raise your shield while charging (and that can get you killed more often than not. And you don't get the ability to slot in a speed bonus (Steel Grace) or an emergency invincibility period (Steel Defense), which gives your GF some extra powers in case you find your tanking skills to need some extra help.

Overall, SM is just more versatile than IV.

lantern22 · December 2016

I like the IV for threatening rush, use it all the time to mass mark mobs. Has risks though.

sulajpl · December 2016

Actually, after a SM to IV respec in mod 10, I mostly didn't experience this paragon 'the only rescue for GFs' as it was considered before mod 10. I did rebuilt in a way that i basically don't use up any of the paragon powers, I have everything i need in the basic tray. Still, threatening rush is very useful. ^^
Uhmm, to make this post having any clever value, I'd like to point out that I got killed before the FR trigger, and I don't have mind that I might have been slain by a hit that took, let's say, actual all 70% HP I actually had, I was killed by a blow that was in a tresehold (i wrote that word wrong, dindn't i).
Anyway, I think that IV has still the same value as it was in a former modules.

frenzal · December 2016

Hey guys. I'm leveling a GF and am into the 60's now. Sorry for asking here, but every thread I start is immediately ignored.

I've got all these feats that give me temporary hp for certain things that happen, yet I don't get any temporary hp. How do so many GF's walk into pvp and just fill their entire bar with temp?

Any assistance or direction to the answer would be greatly appreciated.

dread4moor · December 2016

@frenzal#4831 You need to clarify what you are building. PvP or PvE. Tank, buff, dps balance. Role.

As for temp HP, without discussing PvP exploits, it starts with feat synergy.

For example, Grit "Gain 1/2/3% of your Max Hit Points in Temporary Hit Points when you are Healed by a power." + Take Measure "When you are crit, gain Temporary Hit Points equal to 1/2/3/4/5% of your Maximum HP." + Wrathful Warrior "When you have Temporary Hitpoints you deal 3/6/9/12/15% more damage."

grimah · December 2016

The only thing IV has going for it is threatening rush and the mark stacking with others. Indomitable strength isn't bad either, faster and applies debuff compared to crescendo (though crescendo is a gap closer which is nice too.)

Swordmaster's weapon master strike is mainly why I pick it over vanguard, Cleave just sucks. even if it's damage was more than WMS, the radius is really crudey.

Steel grace is okay. I personally only use it for soloing, otherwise I use combat sup + guarded assault as my default group features.

If you want to go full debuff tactician/protector. Then IV isn't a bad choice for the extra mark.

l0th4ri0 · December 2016

Here's 2 more cents:

Im currently playing an IV Conq, which, yes I can hear the groans already, but bear with me...

WMS is good. It hits for a bunch of damage. But it is basically when all is said and done an upgraded version of Cleave. It's an at will in an AoE arc.

TRush actually adds functionality beyond its damage. Marks can stack, you can easily provide combat advantage against a bunch of mobs with one click, there are feats that interact with marks that can debuff mobs, do more damage against them, or what-have-you. Not to mention it is a spammable gap closer that lets you dance through mob packs instantaneously which is something that has all kinds of usefulness beyond being cool-looking.

Now I have to give points to SM for steel grace. One of the things that kinda grinds the gears with GF is our innate slowness, and having a class feature bump us up speedwise by a significant amount is certainly helping. I wish I could use steel grace with my IV just for the movement boost.

Did I give up total damage by going IV? Yes. WMS is very GWF-ish, and can stack up the numbers high and fast. But is it really making THAT much of a difference to have to swing 3 or 4 extra times through a mob pack to kill everybody? Hell, I just keep crushing surge slotted TBH and take a couple of extra swings for the purpose of keeping the health bar topped off. Yeah, it's single target and not as efficient as WMS for clearing packs but who cares. The end result is the same: dead bad guys, living GF. Plus I can always teleport all over the place and whack the HAMSTER outta stragglers with TRush which I would not have access to without being IV.

indylol · December 2016

I played some IV Tactician and it was the best daily generation build i could find for PvE, but for strictly leading DF for my guild i found that IV Protector had a much larger impact for boosting raid survival for blue dragon when you run DF with undergeared or simply newer players.

IV Conq imo is the way to go for PvP and thats what my xb1 GF is still built as but there can definitely be arguments made for crescendo and steel defense in a few cases, mainly for surviving TRs. IV Conq will die to TRs but imo they have a better chance of killing them too with Indomitable Strength + bulls + Anvil rotations. As for powers, Trample the Fallen is better than anything swordmaster offers offensively.

dread4moor · January 2017

l0th4ri0 "Im currently playing an IV Conq, which, yes I can hear the groans already, but bear with me..."

Friggin hilarious that you addressed that from the start. I appreciate your innovation and refusal to follow "the only way".
You said crushing surge is a good source of your healing. Very surprised to hear it, always heard it was bad.
But I am open to new ideas and curious to know how you make it work.
Next time you run, if you have ACT, please share your CSurge healing numbers/efficiency. Could dispell a lot of assumptions many of us have about that at-will.

Iron Vanguard

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