Some guilds ask new recruits to buy them...

pan17 · November 2016

..something valuable from the auction house in order to join it...Is this legal...?
What iam doing is ..to ignore them totally...

jmiller84 · November 2016

What are "they" asking you to buy?

plasticbat · November 2016

As far as I know it is 'legal'. They want you to pay for your membership for whatever reason such as they finished building the StrongHold with a lot of time/resource and they don't want the new member to have a free ride.
You don't have to join them.

micky1p00 · November 2016

Ohhh that's a nice idea. Shiny new Tensers, my precocious!

kreatyve · November 2016

Working on getting confirmation on whether or not this is allowed, as it seems like a bit of a grey area. However, we do have this posted in the "Welcome to Guild Recruitment" message for all 3 platforms:

After a discussion with Customer Service and devs, it has been determined that Guild Entry fees will be permitted. However, please be wary of scammers. Pay fees at your own risk. PWE/Cryptic/forum staff not responsible for lost or stolen fees. Any disputes must go through customer service or an in game report. You may not make any accusations on these forums under any circumstances.

micky1p00 · November 2016

magenubbie said:
They won't forbid guild entry fees. The simple reason is that there's no way to enforce such a rule. Trading is free and so is joining and leaving a guild. Even if they did create a system where you donate to the coffer, join the guild and are then unable to be kicked for an X amount of time, there's nothing that forces people to actually use such a system.

Other than that, I find demanding entry fees a despicable practice and I would never even consider joining a guild that has entry fees, regardless of their boon ranks. Because that's what it comes down to in the end:
Guild: "I don't trust you, so I require payment for you getting the boons we already worked for. Maybe you'll donate enough to make it worth spending a member slot on you, maybe not. But at least we get something for taking that risk".
Applying player: "Well, if you don't trust me to pull my weight, why should I trust you not to kick me when you find someone with a bigger wallet/more playtime/willing to donate more to take my place?"
and so forth.. You get the idea, I'm sure. I lack the patience to have such a discussion, regardless of which side of the fence I'm on. I'd rather be in a R1 guild with fun players than the game feeling like a job and being forced to pay for the "privilege" of being in a guild. But that's just me. Plenty of R15+ guilds around that do not require anything but being a fun guy to play with the other fun guys.

Furthermore, I have no desire to see something like entrance fees encouraged by spending valuable dev time on developing a system that would allow it. Personal opinions aside, there are more important things that require resources. Like the Foundry..

But....but....my Tensers !

Trolling aside (And no, unfortunately >:)

, we in the guild I am, don't ask for Tensers, or anything, from new members), why is this even an issue, it's a 'free world' some can ask for payment, others don't, some think it worth for them to pay and be in a guild that thinks the same. Others will not agree....and won't join.

No one forcing anyone to pay anything. And as long it's not forced, why it's even debated.
All that need to be clear here, is that the applicant taking the risk here, because they can be kicked all the same.

plasticbat · November 2016

If you don't know about the guild at all by whatever 3rd party means, there is no reason to join them.

beckylunatic · November 2016

Yeah, if a guild is asking for an entry fee and they have no reputation or credibility, I don't even know why this would be a question.

It's no different than agreeing to a trade without the entire payment being in the trade window where you can confirm it. If you cannot base that agreement on your deep knowledge and trust of the other party... don't. You have zero safety net.

"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

sockmunkey · November 2016

Yea, this was a big debate about 6 months ago. Threads got locked, rules where said to be broken. But official word confirmed that it was allowed.

That said, I find it completely scummy behavior. But id rather that scummy behavior be completely open and visible for all to see. Those guilds will find one way or another to exact their tribute. So for now, they can do so with a giant flashing warning light that anyone with any sense would gladly stay away from. Rather then having their extortion be hidden to avoid any chance of rule breaking.

kreatyve · November 2016

beckylunatic said:
Yeah, if a guild is asking for an entry fee and they have no reputation or credibility, I don't even know why this would be a question.

It's no different than agreeing to a trade without the entire payment being in the trade window where you can confirm it. If you cannot base that agreement on your deep knowledge and trust of the other party... don't. You have zero safety net.

"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

Yeah, this is pretty much the feedback I got about it. I don't really agree with it either, and I would never charge entry to any of my guilds.

sorce · November 2016

I don't see a huge issue with asking a joining fee - as long as it's reasonable and goes toward furthering the guild. We design ours to be obtainable without costing the new recruit anything and allows us to balance our existing members with the new (the amount of requests for AD way back when, majority wish to see new joiners also contribute).

At the moment we have a 200 Heroic Shard requirement - but we allow 2-3 weeks to provide this, meaning you can simply farm the shards over that time once you are in the guild and can do so on multiple toons. Some people rather just have it done and dusted and purchase a pack of the AH with the shards. We always advise the recruit, explain the ways they can donate without costing them anything, and when they forget (as some do), they will always be given extra time (and usually even have other guildies that they've made friends with helping out to throw some in to count for them).

I would say it comes down to perspective and what you feel comfortable with. I wouldn't join a guild that required me to provide an officer/leader with an item(s) that they would use, but a request to donate to the coffer is fine (as long as the request is reasonable and a one off).

mrvincent1959 · November 2016

I dont see a problem with this for many reasons:

1. Nobody is forcing you to join (obvious)
2. If a guild is full level 20 and all structures and your a NEW member, do you want to get for free what others worked for?
3. See #1 above.

If your coming from a 20 level guild that you helped to build and going to a 20 level guild, I think it should be up to the guild leader if the entry fee should be waived.

One caveat: If someone asks you to give REAL money.....I would run away.

mightyeriksson · November 2016

mrvincent1959 said:
I dont see a problem with this for many reasons:

1. Nobody is forcing you to join (obvious)
2. If a guild is full level 20 and all structures and your a NEW member, do you want to get for free what others worked for?
3. See #1 above.

If your coming from a 20 level guild that you helped to build and going to a 20 level guild, I think it should be up to the guild leader if the entry fee should be waived.

One caveat: If someone asks you to give REAL money.....I would run away.

On the other hand: If the Stronghold is already R20 and finished with all buildings, what does the Stronghold need?

By then, the entry-fee is just to further someones economy, be it virtual or irl...

plasticbat · November 2016

mightyeriksson said:

mrvincent1959 said:
I dont see a problem with this for many reasons:

1. Nobody is forcing you to join (obvious)
2. If a guild is full level 20 and all structures and your a NEW member, do you want to get for free what others worked for?
3. See #1 above.

If your coming from a 20 level guild that you helped to build and going to a 20 level guild, I think it should be up to the guild leader if the entry fee should be waived.

One caveat: If someone asks you to give REAL money.....I would run away.
On the other hand: If the Stronghold is already R20 and finished with all buildings, what does the Stronghold need?

By then, the entry-fee is just to further someones economy, be it virtual or irl...

The SH does not need anything but the guild may if the guild does something like weekly draw, contests, hide and seek, etc.

sandukutupu · November 2016

pan17 said:
..something valuable from the auction house in order to join it...Is this legal...?
What iam doing is ..to ignore them totally...

For real? This reminds me of something I read about in Time magazine a long while back. Dowry Murders occur when the gifts of the potential bride gives a dowry that is considered insufficient. The insult results in the death of of the bride and the groom gets to keep the loot. It has been an ongoing practice and tradition legally sanctioned by the government so no arrest is made.

I think your first response is wise, just ignore them.

Some guilds ask new recruits to buy them...

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