Dungeon Key Changes

jaysun1977 · October 2016

lordseth1985 said:

midpoint#3070 said:
None of the devs play the game, if they did we wouldn't have this misery.
Many devs here play the game. The fact that they [apparently] don't have any power of decision doesn't mean they don't play the game.

They may play the game, they sure don't understand it, though.

ludima89 · October 2016

Would be awesome if there were a sidequest in the dungeon to get the extra key, like Adventurers Party in MC or that extra boss in spell plaque a long time ago... something like that. Would be an awesome addition to Dungeon runs, "dont want to spend money? Run the extra quest... for faster runs buys the dragon keys" Or let the community design Real good extra Dungeons through foundry with a loot key as reward! There are good Foundrys, some even take you a few hours if you want to run them alone. Let the player base design Themed Dungeons or Foundrys with a length of at least 45 Minutues to run through with a Group to get a random extra loot key. there are so many options that are actually already INGAME but just no one even remembers them cuz they are not really worthwhile

kacsanever · October 2016

@tripsofthrymr has summed up the upcoming change and how it should have handled. @silverkelt summed up the issues the game has in its current state. I just wanna add a screenshot about the RNG. See below

At least I got 30 green trovels^^

It's not the end of the world, but rethink the loot table at the same time this fix goes alive, pls^^

khonrad · October 2016

+5 ring is dream which never come true .. for me those jewl +2 slot rings r doing fine .. when reach mod 20 I may be have +5 ..
One advice DEv " Release the cracken , Let the GAmers DIe and Finally I may be able to delete my characters "

frozenfirevr · October 2016

lordseth1985 said:

midpoint#3070 said:
None of the devs play the game, if they did we wouldn't have this misery.
Many devs here play the game. The fact that they [apparently] don't have any power of decision doesn't mean they don't play the game.

We're talking about their inability to understand our PoV. If you ever farmed for a UD ring or relic gear, you'd know what a pain in the as* RNG BoP loot is.

What the devs don't seem to figure out is,

You should either make BoP gear that is purchasable with seals, or make BoE RNG gear. But the devs somehow combined the worst aspects of both of those into one and made BoP RNG gear. That's what sucks. All gear should be like the Twisted Offhand, it should drop (preferably BoE), if you're unlucky and it doesn't you should still be able to buy it through the runs in which you tried.

gor1llaf1st · October 2016

if you do this, you will see alot less interaction of the higher level players with the lower level players. the elusive plus 5 is the only thing people keep farming for and thus help the lower level players in things like Epic Demo. I think you will not only see less keys bought with zen/money, you will see people playing to use their two keys and no further for the day and then just finding another game to replace the majority of their time. ps... ditto on the b/s 4 year bug excuse

gor1llaf1st · October 2016

lirithiel said:
Can anyone suggest me a new game to start downloading? Preferably one with no grind

Overwatch should be on sale this holiday season, if pvp in Neverwinter was like that game..... I'd never stop playing it, the only "grind" is to get more character skins. all abilities are available at start and almost every character is fun to play and vastly different from the rest.

greyhawk · October 2016

I commend some of you for still trying but it's so blatantly obvious that this group will not listen. You're literally wasting your time.

Shameful behaviour, on their part.

kvet · October 2016

greyhawk#1973 said:
I commend some of you for still trying but it's so blatantly obvious that this group will not listen. You're literally wasting your time.

Shameful behaviour, on their part.

Agreed. Sad but true. I've been following this thread, but like Cryptic did days ago - it's time for me to unstar it and ignore it.

If anyone feels the need to quote me in this thread going forward, please add @kvet so I know about it. Thx!

viperwitch23 · October 2016

The Devs have kindly decided out of the goodness of their hearts not to pursue anyone who is using this bug
So what right have we got to demand loot changes?
They already decided key changes come OK this is done
And they decided not to prosecute players for usage of decline button
So when ever someone says about changing loot they could just answer '' Be happy you are still playing after abusing DECLINE button for 2 years''
It doesn't look like any loot will change so people please don't kid yourself that it will.
My father always says: expect the worst and you don't get disappointed when it comes.

bdug · October 2016

48 pages of negative feedback that will be completely ignored.....

andorrabell · October 2016

We are losing people because of this change. It truly is the straw that is breaking people's backs.
We are sick to death of nerfs with no fix.

This is just the most recent one...
Where is the Gateway Companion Gear?
Where are compensatory fixes to professions to deal with AD removal?
Where is adjustments to [some] AD sinks to deal with reduced AD influx [i.e. companion upgrades]?
Where is a reply to the hatred of the voninblood empowerment scheme that has us running in circles for hours, especially if we play more than one character (hint: this is in NO WAY FUN)
Where are our missing dungeons?
Where is our actual ability to get +5 rings or exchange them (already impossible, now "forget it" coming to a November near you)
Why are purple rings in FBI character bound? Surely people going in there don't need them.
With this Key change how will anyone possibly afford the insanely rare artifact drops.

STOP GIVING US THE NERF WITHOUT GIVING US THE SOLUTION.

uzala · October 2016

This have been said many times in this thread but it is worth repeating, the proposed change simply doesn't work with RNG as it is now. If the randomness and the terrible drop rates would be fixed, the key change would have little to no impact on the game.
Could the developers give us some information how they gonna go about it? I mean they cannot just release that change, without further adjustments to the loot system, and just see what happens. I have see them use expressions like(paraphrasing) "we will monitor the impact...", think most recent I can think off was in the legacy set removal thread, sorry for quoting this which perhaps is a bit off-topic, but the approach used by developers to make big changes, seem to impact live servers and its players mostly:

asterdahl said:

Our queue data is being skewed by the existence of these sets. Despite claims to the contrary, data shows that the fastest groups completing Fangbreaker are in fact running these sets. Currently our fastest recorded time in Fangbreaker is 16 minutes and 37 seconds. This is exceptionally below our average and median runtimes. As you may be able to guess the cleric in that group was running High Prophet while the wizard was running High Vizier. As long as our data is thus skewed by sets that are no longer obtainable, it is very difficult for us to accurately balance rewards. While we never balance for the absolute fastest runs this skew is so large that it brings down our averages. Eliminating all groups running these sets from our data would be time consuming, in addition, in cases where items are flowing into the economy, these sets will increase that rate significantly over what was expected.

The bolded part is what I aim at, again, the approach seems to be, we will throw this change out there for you, watch you suffer for few months than maybe we will do some further changes to smooth things out.
Am I out of line seeing it this way? I really like this game, and by reading all these comments in this thread, I feel many of you guys do as well. This game has tremendous potential to be truly great, but but the development system need to be looked at.

edit: just a funny observation in that quote, seems like the developers are unfamiliar with statistical boxplots.

greyhawk · October 2016

People in my circle are dropping like flies. I'm on my way out, too. Like I've said - and MANY others - reverting this change won't right this ship. This crew has demolished ANY trust and belief that they give a goblins butt about how any players feel.

They think people will just mindlessly keep buying keys and 'making huge profits' - wow that guy is seriously delusional lol. They will rue the day that they decided to go all in and 'decide not to pursue action against these exploiters, AT THIS TIME'. That comment spells out the chances that drops will improve. We're sooo lucky that they don't ban us? The hubris! The gall!

I've read this whole thread and count on one hand the number of mindless sheep that are buying this mess. That's like the same percentage as someone's chance at decent loot. I hope they bank on those few simple minds. That may teach them some humility..

Shame on them. Truly shameful...

aimeesellers · October 2016

The game has been dying for months... each change, each poor excuse for a dungeon that is reworked or added, each fix the developers implement is only a frantic attempt to slow the process... to keep the game and its community on life support while they slowly bleed it dry.

I started playing in Mod 2... and I was amazed by the world they had created... how much it reminded me of my days spent playing tabletop D&D... and then Neverwinter Nights which was produced by BioWare. I came here to be with friends... and I made more while I have been here. Now... I watch as people leave in frustration after spending hundreds, or thousands just to try to keep up... or they leave because they cant afford to spend that on a game... and they get left behind.

I used to play for hours a day here... now I spend most of my time elsewhere. I still come one to be with friends... join our guildmembers for runs... but it saddens me to see these new players getting sucked into what I know is nothing but a money pit that they will never gain anything but frustration from.

Are we expected to pay for entertainment? Yes... we are. And that is what this game is... or... rather what it was meant to be. Entertainment. But I am only entertained when I think what I am paying for is worth what I am spending. The ratio of fun vs expense tipped in the favor of expense a long time ago... and its getting worse.

The only thing I spend on this game anymore is VIP... its the only thing worth spending money on. Everything else is just a bait and switch trap to drain your bank account. And the day that they rework VIP to be more expense than worth... I will stop paying for that too.

As for this change... they can take their special keys and chests and stick them where their heads are.

lowendus · October 2016

greyhawk#1973 said:
People in my circle are dropping like flies. I'm on my way out, too. Like I've said - and MANY others - reverting this change won't right this ship.

This is horrible

It's Mod 6 All over

Lost many friends when those changes hit live, more horrible grind was introduced etc etc, many tried to come back but left at the blink of an eye as soon as they logged back in and saw the new changes / requirements.

I'm just logging in for maintenance since mod 10 hit, thought of trying to move forward in this mod, restart etc, even thought of buying some VIP to get back on track, but this change / announcement just broke my legs, it is just disheartening.

Dunno who thought of this horrible change and ridiculous excuse of a Bug (DECLINE BUTTON...lawl) but they need seriously think about it again.

Seriously

isaintify1 · October 2016

Everyone needs to head over to the sea of moving ice patch notes (http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1224239/sea-of-moving-ice-preview-patch-notes-nw-70-20161017a-1/p2) If you want your voice heard. This section is and and will be ignored by the developers. If you want to make a difference head over there. There is no point in complaining here on this thread. The developers are actually watching and replying back on that thread. Not this one.

loboguild · October 2016

We're approaching 50 pages and 1,500 posts and Thomas Foss is still hiding behind his Module 0 accomplishments. Dude had a good start in the livestream, but his likability drops each day.

krasensilver · October 2016

sum of that change work harder, spend more time and dolars for more loss. gl to any player want to keep up that

lirithiel · October 2016

gor1llaf1st said:

lirithiel said:
Can anyone suggest me a new game to start downloading? Preferably one with no grind
Overwatch should be on sale this holiday season, if pvp in Neverwinter was like that game..... I'd never stop playing it, the only "grind" is to get more character skins. all abilities are available at start and almost every character is fun to play and vastly different from the rest.

Yeah, no thanks. I despise FPSers and it doesn't matter that a company that excels at gaming on so many levels made it. I supported four of their games for many years but Overwatch will not be added to that list. It's sad really because I haven't been this passionate about a game EVER. I grew up in this world and returning to it after 20-odd years was an awesome experience but the business side is fast ruining what could have rivaled the best MMOs out there.

hanniballa · October 2016

isaintify1 said:
Everyone needs to head over to the sea of moving ice patch notes (http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1224239/sea-of-moving-ice-preview-patch-notes-nw-70-20161017a-1/p2) If you want your voice heard. This section is and and will be ignored by the developers. If you want to make a difference head over there. There is no point in complaining here on this thread. The developers are actually watching and replying back on that thread. Not this one.

This is all the devs(well.... just one dev) has said in the preview thread so far.

1.Be nice, and don't burn yourself out exploiting a bug before we change it and screw you guys over.
2.Here's how the camera changes work.
3.Preview shard has been unlocked.

NOT A SINGLE THING ABOUT REVERTING THE CHANGE OR GIVING US BETTER LOOT!

Going there wont make a difference.

tuesdayrolld20 · October 2016

loboguild said:
We're approaching 50 pages and 1,500 posts and Thomas Foss is still hiding behind his Module 0 accomplishments. Dude had a good start in the livestream, but his likability drops each day.

It is odd. Regardless if a dev is addressing issues in another post (which they really are not), they should be coming on and saying something.

Thanks to the patience of the mods during this time. Frustration was inevitable at this news.

I compare it to a Fireperson going to a building, setting a fire and then parking beside the building, listeneing to the people panick, and not turning on the hose to fight the fire.

greyhawk · October 2016

The devs responding to the patch notes thread are only responding to the fluff stuff. They're not touching the key change comments at all.

Other than to tell us how gracious they are for not pursuing the decline FEATURE as an exploit and banning those who used it...

This whole thing is ridiculous, and really shows how terrible some companies truly are.

Absolutely shameful. Shame on them, for treating people in this manner. Tsk tsk

Dungeon Key Changes

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