NW: a Dailies and Dragons Game

arashjam · October 2016

I was calculating the run times and amount of AD you can get from the dungeons after the Mod 10 drop and it was so upsetting.

If you run a CN which takes 10-15 minutes with a good team (3k+), most of the time you can end up with a +1 blue ring in the left chest which will salvage for 4,400 AD during the 2xAD. Now, if you run a Cloak Tower (level 12) even with a lower level character you can get up to 8,000 AD for a 5-minute run!!! That's four times more AD (for two Cloak Tower runs in 10 minutes) for running an easier content!

This means that the game gives you more rewards if you run a lower level dungeon. I don't think this is acceptable at all. I leveled up my characters to be more powerful and run them through the end game contents and get rewarded accordingly, but now I make more money by running the boring low level contents! This is wrong on so many levels and must be addressed as soon as possible so players have an incentive running higher level dungeons. I understand that you might get extremely lucky and pull a +5 ring or even an artifact, but that's beside the point. Your CN run should get you more stuff than a level 12 dungeon. The way it works now, I should run two dungeons everyday with all of my characters (I have 11 alts, including two level 27s!) and I am better off this way than spending time to run a T2 dungeon!

P.S: CN is a T2 dungeon; I still cannot understand why it drops blue rings most of the times. I thought you get purple rewards from T2s.
Also, if you don't have VIP, you have to spend 5,000 AD to buy an Epic key which can give you 4,400 AD (again during 2xAD). That's so messed up!

armadeonx · October 2016

I don't understand why CN is not regarded as a dungeon, it obviously is.

spelldazer · October 2016

May I offer another way to look at it?

The game now gives you fast AD by way of easy content so that you can build up your character, contribute to your guild, help out friends...whatever. And then the harder runs give you a chance at extra loot if you are so inclined. My experience has been that in most CN runs, I get some form of salvage drop from boss fights in addition to the epic chest.

I'm ok with the game getting to a point where VIP is almost a necessity because like you said, the game enables you to get the necessary AD for it. The be all end all of the game can't be about AD generation but about actually playing the game. There needs to be a reliable way for everyone to generate AD in order to progress at a reasonable pace (mmo reasonable, which is not fast by any means) and there is. Do the 5 min cloak towers and the mindless DHEs then salvage those blue rings with the invocation bonus. Then go play harder content not necessarily for the rewards but rather for the challenge or the change of scenery or because you want to have fun with your friends.

I wouldn't play the lottery to win or buy scratch cards thinking I'm going to net me some nifty prizes. I know that I'd be paying for the 5 seconds rush of adrenaline where you are in suspense and then it's over. Same thing with CN except that it takes longer and you are practically guaranteed something for your efforts. And it's more fun than scratching some card. If a T2 is not fun for you... Don't do it. There are far better ways to while away the day.

mordekai · October 2016

It's also worth considering, given the recent changes to salvage, that should the developers look to address the imbalance you feel exists, they might do so in a way that could see the rewards for runs like Cloak Tower drop, rather than CN rise.

juergeng123 · October 2016

did not get Astral Diamonds for a Cloak Tower run with a level 70 is this a bug?

mordekai · October 2016

juergeng123 said:
did not get Astral Diamonds for a Cloak Tower run with a level 70 is this a bug?

Depends if you'd got the max for the day from dungeon runs.
If it was your first or only run, you should see them show up in the rough AD on the character sheet. They don't show up in the rewards when you complete the dungeon for some bizarre reason.

arashjam · October 2016

spelldazer said:
May I offer another way to look at it?

The game now gives you fast AD by way of easy content so that you can build up your character, contribute to your guild, help out friends...whatever. And then the harder runs give you a chance at extra loot if you are so inclined. My experience has been that in most CN runs, I get some form of salvage drop from boss fights in addition to the epic chest.

I'm ok with the game getting to a point where VIP is almost a necessity because like you said, the game enables you to get the necessary AD for it. The be all end all of the game can't be about AD generation but about actually playing the game. There needs to be a reliable way for everyone to generate AD in order to progress at a reasonable pace (mmo reasonable, which is not fast by any means) and there is. Do the 5 min cloak towers and the mindless DHEs then salvage those blue rings with the invocation bonus. Then go play harder content not necessarily for the rewards but rather for the challenge or the change of scenery or because you want to have fun with your friends.

I wouldn't play the lottery to win or buy scratch cards thinking I'm going to net me some nifty prizes. I know that I'd be paying for the 5 seconds rush of adrenaline where you are in suspense and then it's over. Same thing with CN except that it takes longer and you are practically guaranteed something for your efforts. And it's more fun than scratching some card. If a T2 is not fun for you... Don't do it. There are far better ways to while away the day.

I understand your points. However, I don't think that game should give level 70s any incentive to run a level 12 dungeon. It ruins the dungeon for lower level players who just want to enjoy the game. And it just doesn't make sense to me. A higher level dungeon should give a better reward than daily AD you can get form a much lower one. The way it works now, a lot of players have stopped playing CN (disastrous RNG is also at fault).

arashjam · October 2016

I have some more calculations as well:

Right now the fastest T2 dungeon is eTos. Let's say on average you get a medium size equipment which salvages for 11,000 AD (with VIP and during 2xAD). This dungeon takes around 10-15 minutes with a 2.3k-3.5k group. Let's use the fastest number: 10 minutes. It means that you earn 1,100 AD per Minute (I call it ADpM!).

Now, let's assume you run Sharandar with 5 characters every day. You get 45 green Thaum stones and assuming it takes 20 minutes for every character, it takes 100 minutes per day or 208 minutes to get a stack of 99. I sold the stack for 250k AD. This means ADpM for Shanarndar is 1,202.

1,202>1,100 which means it's more profitable to grind Sharandar than run a dungeon in a D&D game. Now running a dungeon needs a group of 5 players and a key each time you open the chest, while you can run Sharandar by yourself (if you run it with 5 players it will take A LOT less time to complete). So, bottom line is this:

In NW you can make more money by grinding than running fun stuff. And because it is a GAME, it is not supposed to be that way.

P.S: Yes, I know you MIGHT get a drop from one of the bosses in eToS, but remember if you run 5 characters through Sharandar you get Hamster tone of RP which is worth way more than that one ring drop!

Edit: Corrected some math issues!

indylol · October 2016

If you run CN and you get an orcus wand to drop, it is now instantly more lucrative than doing sharandar or farming cloak tower on alts. Its all about that chance.

mordekai · October 2016

I wish I could run all of Sharandar in 20 minutes.
Maybe if they gave me a completely empty instance for each of my toons I could come close, but even with my TR and GF who kill redcap mobs in like 3 seconds its nearly double that most days.
It took nearly quarter of an hour to do the bloody dog taming quest this morning, just cos there were so many people in there.

ajlir · October 2016

Sharandar on all 3 areas requires more than 20 minutes. And largely depends on the instance itself where you compete yourself in.

speedokillz · October 2016

There is a trick to Sharandar that I find very very helpful. I learned it from another post, but the basic idea is to only do the battle for Sharandar daily quest, but collect all the quests from each area. Every other day, run them all. Partly because it drives me nuts competing for the same fing "tame the dog" but mostly because killing all the HAMSTER to get to the flower or to the mushroom is dropping the cyclops eye or the redcaps from the previous day's quests.

two for one, baby! Much, better imo

sundance777 · October 2016

I like math, but here is another viewpoint. I think the quest for AD makes us crazy. I stopped worrying about making AD and the game has been much more enjoyable since.

Sure, I still need AD at times and I still want AD but I stopped trying to grind grind for my 2x2x2 and this quest and that quest just to get max AD on every toon and I am much happier for it.

Besides, what are you going to do with all the AD in the end anyway? Convert it to zen and take it to STO? IDK, just another silly post on my part.

mordekai · October 2016

speedokillz said:
There is a trick to Sharandar that I find very very helpful. I learned it from another post, but the basic idea is to only do the battle for Sharandar daily quest, but collect all the quests from each area. Every other day, run them all. Partly because it drives me nuts competing for the same fing "tame the dog" but mostly because killing all the HAMSTER to get to the flower or to the mushroom is dropping the cyclops eye or the redcaps from the previous day's quests.

two for one, baby! Much, better imo

I often run Sharandar a day behind, but to even get under half an hour on just nine standard quests plus one key quest (let alone all 3) I'd need to be Usain Bolt on PCP wielding Arnie's mini gun from Predator or a full scale tactical nuclear option. And even IF I had the nuke, some lazy HAMSTER would still run in and nick all the goodies.

arashjam · October 2016

ajlir#7970 said:
Sharandar on all 3 areas requires more than 20 minutes. And largely depends on the instance itself where you compete yourself in.

I timed my toons a few times. Some days I get it done in about 15 minutes (when I finish I can do the first invoke), and some days it takes around 25 minutes. On average I think 20 min is not bad!

NW: a Dailies and Dragons Game

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