Dungeon Key Changes

demonmonger · October 2016

What this game needs.

1) more fashions

2) a foundry type place where players can create fashions that end up in zen store.

3) more pvp zones

4) solo pvp que

5) more dragon companions

6) fix stats on outdated useless weapon enchantments (plague fire aoe for example)

7) improve stats on outdated useless armor enchantments (like barkshield)

8) allow us to right click players and 1vs1 pvp them no matter where we are. (We will stay in zone or town and pvp where we selected player to battle) you can even add this to zen store as a token of pvp.

9) create a panel of players that meet at least once a week to discuss balance and bugs.

10) create a limbo area of the game where bots can be sent to (in this area you can not teleport out, cannot trade, cannot party other players, cannot use any encounters or atwills, just walk and see others who are in bot prison.

11) keep an updated list of all banned accounts listing region they are from as well.

12) create multiple person mounts
(Right click the mount to enter as long as you are in party perhaps)

13) allow us to have be able to switch from non pvp mode to pvp mode by a npc in town. Let it cost 100k Astral to enter pvp mode and 100k Astral to exit pvp mode. While in this pvp mode you have a special pvp icon over your head and can fight any other player with this icon in areas outside of towns and campfires.

14) allow us to gain xp from winning pvp battles no matter what level we are.

15) create a rubber chicken weapon that turns players to a chicken for a short diration. (Like famorian witch spell that turns players to animals)

16) create more special event emotes(like the juggle emote)

jumpingmorks · October 2016

Since we have assurances that devs are now actively reading I wanted to quote these 2 very good posts, am sorry if I missed other posts but they seem to be lost amongst all the pitchfork posts which is the main reason I'd like to make sure that the 2 constructive posts I know of have a better chance of being read. Am sorry if I missed others.

thefabricant said:
@zebular whether it was the truth or a lie, it does not change the fact that the post that is presented to us is highly offensive and there should be an apology for it. Furthermore, it also does not change the fact this is the only game I know of where the loot is so bad that players would want to decline it anyhow.

beckylunatic said:
These are a few serious suggestions for how to show good faith effort to improve looting when keys will be auto-consumed and to repair community relations.

- Re-evaluating drop rates in existing content, not just a nebulous "oooh, maybe we can design better rewards in the future". If you have kept the drop rates so defeatingly low because players could keep using the same key until they got something decent, this needs to stop immediately. If you must consume your key every time you open a chest, that chest had darned well better have a solid chance of dropping something decent. IMO, a start would be a minimum of an epic ring in each Underdark bonus chest, for example. +1/2 rings still possible from the auto-reward, and *not* with an increased drop chance. The RNG still allowing a +3 ring and there being so many types of rings in the pool means that there's still a high chance of not getting what you wanted, but the odds are still greatly improved by removing a huge amount of the trash. Chances of artifact drops from bonus chests must be much increased as well. You cannot make this change and ignore the fact that you've designed the loot to be 99% GARBAGE based on working around players being able to reject said garbage.

-Reduced cost of Legendary Dragon Keys is still too much without substantial adjustments in other areas. Needs to be balanced against probable value of loot, but also against how players are spending their time. If you can use 10 keys in a night of gaming, someone who pays *real money* has just spent five dollars. You want us to play every day? That's not sustainable. Check your expectations.

- VIP dungeon keys should work in more types of content. At the absolute bare minimum, they should function in levelling dungeons. It's been dumb since the advent of VIP that they don't. Increased access to Adventurer seals and blue gear isn't going to break anything, and the AD cost of a key that works in levelling dungeons is shameful. Incidentally, the free Daily Dungeon key should now be available when Cloak Tower unlocks, not when Cragmire does. Other changes to keys might negate the need for more than this, but if you only changed ONE THING, then converting the existing per diem keys to a skeleton key would be something.

-VIP per diem rewards should include a Legendary Dragon Key or Keys at some tier(s). I am thinking it would be not overdone if it was only a per-account reward like the lockbox key, but perhaps incremented in quantity as tiered rewards. Going all the way up to 5/day/account at rank 12 would be great, though perhaps asking too much. I'd say no less than 3 though. VIP has undeniably lost value for players due to various changes to the t-bar store and AD gain, though it's still a great convenience. Adding value back to VIP would soften the blow of the key change, AND of the changes that have depreciated VIP itself.

- Respect our inventory. The number of different kinds of craftable keys is ludicrous. Anyone looking at the list in the first post can see that. Legendary Dragon Keys were a space-saving feature in addition to their other functions. System overhauls could include changing all campaign tasks to craft a universal "campaign chest key" that can open any bonus chest, and/or providing storage for keys. A generic campaign chest key would add flexibility for players who could take the key they made from several campaigns but only use it in Castle Never, for example. Players are still limited by their access to campaign currencies.

-Respect our time. Reduce timers on key-crafting to seconds. Players are sufficiently gated by currency gain (which our Strongholds and non-key campaign tasks still hunger for as well). If someone wants to craft a bunch of keys in succession so they can spam content on a day they have more time, just let them. It's not going to break anything.

I know that a few of my suggestions tied to VIP are encouraging cash shop engagement in a different way, but heck, it's not like I don't think anything in the game should be monetized. But I want to see spending encouraged by positive reinforcement, not negative.

krailov · October 2016

If they want a consumable item, they should have an "Unlock Chest" scroll - THOSE are single use consumable items, Like the gauntlets in DR (and are free once a day). But please do NOT have mutliple scrolls for everything -
"One scroll to Unlock them All"
(Note that I am NOT happy with the nerf to DR loot - another step backward for the game, that just makes quitting unavoidable right now. Can we trust they will do the right thing? Sadly, their past history shows us NO.)

Keep keys for permanent opening capability - you either have to craft for renewing (wear 'n tear - VIP get auto repair), or purchase permanent keys, and again -
"One key to Unlock them All"

zerappus · October 2016

@mimicking#6533 @terramak @asterdahl @panderus.

Here's a suggestion than can solve the key/drop desirability problem.

If you want to make the key very desirable, you have make the top drop very desirable. Aside from improving the general quality of the drops, there should be a supremely desirable item among them.

Hence, add a Super Rare, Named, Limited Numbered Drop Weapon (aside from the current, normal and rare drops).
- Super Rare: 1000x+ Rarer than a +5 Ring.
- Limited Numbered Drops: Only 10-12 will drop EVER. Once exhausted, it will never drop again.
- Will have a special, specific name not a generic one (example: Bogeronimo's Fangaxe. If canon allows it).
- Evergreen: The weapon damage will adjust to every module henceforth, so they don't become derelict.
- Unbindable: If the lucky user decides to sell/trade it, then he/she can farm reagents from the same dungeon to make
it Bind-on-Equip once more to sell/trade it. (There are many downsides to this, such as being resold for real money, so OPTIONAL).
- Will have 4 slots or 3 slots (2 of which are Weapon Enchantment. Double weapon enchant!).
- Weapon will have a special weapon effect.
- Will work with any offhand weapon to complete the effect of the offhand.

There you have it. Players will desire these. Players will farm these. Every module from now on will have one of this Super Rare, Limited Numbered items (Weapon, Ring, Necklace, Special Charms you put in your consumable bar, etc).

Player 1: Where did you get that weapon?
Player 2: I got it from new module. *brandishes it*. It's super rare, numbered limited edition. *grins*
Player 1: How much are you selling or trading it?
Player 2: Cryptic will have to raise the 100m cap. It's much worth than that. *double grin*

Right now, Cryptic is offering essentially, hate to use this word, trash as rewards. That's what will make people want those legendary keys. Heck, Cryptic can even make a NEW key (Mythical Dragon Key), double the price, that will increase the drop-chance slightly of the super-weapon/item(s) if you use them instead.

demonmonger · October 2016

I love the idea of having more than one weapon enchantment slot, but that would be very bad for game balance

zman81420 · October 2016

Honestly these people whom make these decisions should start doing the bending over backwards not the other way around. Stop hacking off the hands that feed you. Start fixing issues when they arise not Years later and engage your public. Don't hide behind your monitors while mobs lurk on your screens. A leader doesn't cowl and hide they inspire, they guide, they mentor and most importantly they inspire. When things go wrong they right that wrong and try their damnest to make a better tomorrow. The players have legitimate feedback, honest opinions and answers listen to us for a change otherwise that may all you have left in your pockets...change.

What part of that sob story state of the game address has even went our way? Take take take is what a dictatorship does, is this the type of game I've invested hundreds of days towards. I honestly want to know when the player farming is going to stop.

People invest in something they belive in does 40+ pages here portray belief, trust and good standings. I don't see it, not as many times as our PC brethren but I've seen it happen on these very forums too many times. Why do we have to feel enough is enough. What business scale is that?

arcticblitz · October 2016

Just a suggestion to all who are posting about an increased drop chance, I think it would be beneficial if you put a number on your requests rather than just saying increase the drop rate. at least then the devs will know what our expectations are instead of them thinking that doubling the chance from 0.5% to 1% is acceptable.

My Thoughts
- Legendary Rings ect due to the random nature of the ring your getting 10 - 15% chance
- Artifact gear / artifacts (we to have invest / grind RP into these things anyway so they should drop more readily)+ 4 rings ect 25 - 30 % chance

hanniballa · October 2016

It'd be helpful if the devs actually came here and engage with us. According to twitter Strumslinger is on vacation, and the mods will be handling this for now, so it'll be a while until he chimes in. And to be fair, the man deserves a vacation, but the other devs, where are they at? Over a thousand replies and over 50 thousand views, still silence. Come on guys, we have some legitimate grievances, time to come discuss them.

monkeeyman1 · October 2016

Long time lurker in the forums (as can be seen by the # of posts I've done), but have been playing this game since Beta.

Well, this proposed change finally pushed me over the edge. Earlier today I informed the leaders of the guild I'm in that I'm taking a leave of absence (at least) from the game. I've put up with all of the numerous changes over the years that have really done nothing but hurt the players. Finally, enough is enough for me. I've spent a lot of money on this game, and overall have had a good time playing. However, I just can't do this anymore. It isn't fun to play when every decision made seems to have no impact but to take away fun and make things more difficult. I've got better things to do with my time (and money).

Maybe I'll come back at some point, maybe things will change for the better, I certainly hope that is the case as I really did enjoy my time in this game and with my guild.

So, Later everyone.

thanks

sockmunkey · October 2016

They tried limited items with the Knox companion. Only 5 in the game, and only for PC, I believe. It didn't generate near the buzz they wanted, simply because they never bothered to try it again. I honestly doubt that those 5 players who have one are even still active.

demonmonger · October 2016

The dev's should make it past lvl 15 before changing classes. Each dev should master one class to level 70 then build it up to item level 3100.
Without development magic and without top guild assistance or boons.
Play pvp for 2 weeks straight, then play pve for 2 weeks straight. Only then could you begin to understand class balance that is needed and game balance that is needed.

ajlir · October 2016

tripsofthrymr said:
Most of us have had a chance to vent by now. If you're just joining the discussion, feel free to do your venting. For the rest of us, let's try and focus the discussion on productive ways forward.

I'm not trying to close down the discussion with this statement. On the contrary. Cryptic is spending time reading this thread, looking for a way forward that meets their design objectives and also the needs of their customers. It's an opportunity to focus the discussion on helping Cryptic know what players think would be a balanced approach. Let's use it wisely.

I'm sorry trips but at this time, we need evidence showing that Cryptic is really spending time reading this thread.

bloodshotbeast · October 2016

rafaelda said:
The Boss loots and
tripsofthrymr said:
Most of us have had a chance to vent by now. If you're just joining the discussion, feel free to do your venting. For the rest of us, let's try and focus the discussion on productive ways forward.

I'm not trying to close down the discussion with this statement. On the contrary. Cryptic is spending time reading this thread, looking for a way forward that meets their design objectives and also the needs of their customers. It's an opportunity to focus the discussion on helping Cryptic know what players think would be a balanced approach. Let's use it wisely.
OK so if you read verthing till now you alredy got a few things must of the posts are asking.

1-) Reduced Price for special Keys (ZEN and Currency), and Key produce time too;
2-) Best drops on Dungeon special chests, enough to make building or buying Keys for every run viablle option...
3-) Let us test the change before it went live server so we can see the loot and new Keys prices Zen and camp. currency

I agree with all above but also:

4-) Less Keys
I Think everyone will agreed that we have too many Keys, we could have only 2 special Keys that could be made in any campaings:
Lesser Special Key (blue) for any blue level Dungeon or Skirmish (ELOL, ESOT. TODG, Normal Demo etc..)
Greater Special Key (purple) for hight Tier purple stuff (Epic Edmo, Tiamat, ETOS, EGWD etc...)
Make it 3 if you need something fot 3.1K gears Score but not more than that pls, this way we could chose what to run without have to farm older campaings, because Dungeons are done by 5 person and having the same Key will be hard if they start to be single use.

Sorry for the Bad english

This!
Is
Great!
If its going to happen at least compromise with your player base.

kuero21 · October 2016

zerappus said:
@mimicking#6533 @terramak @asterdahl @panderus.

Here's a suggestion than can solve the key/drop desirability problem.

If you want to make the key very desirable, you have make the top drop very desirable. Aside from improving the general quality of the drops, there should be a supremely desirable item among them.

Hence, add a Super Rare, Named, Limited Numbered Drop Weapon (aside from the current, normal and rare drops).
- Super Rare: 1000x+ Rarer than a +5 Ring.
- Limited Numbered Drops: Only 10-12 will drop EVER. Once exhausted, it will never drop again.
- Will have a special, specific name not a generic one (example: Bogeronimo's Fangaxe. If canon allows it).
- Evergreen: The weapon damage will adjust to every module henceforth, so they don't become derelict.
- Unbindable: If the lucky user decides to sell/trade it, then he/she can farm reagents from the same dungeon to make
it Bind-on-Equip once more to sell/trade it. (There are many downsides to this, such as being resold for real money, so OPTIONAL).
- Will have 4 slots or 3 slots (2 of which are Weapon Enchantment. Double weapon enchant!).
- Weapon will have a special weapon effect.
- Will work with any offhand weapon to complete the effect of the offhand.

There you have it. Players will desire these. Players will farm these. Every module from now on will have one of this Super Rare, Limited Numbered items (Weapon, Ring, Necklace, Special Charms you put in your consumable bar, etc).

Player 1: Where did you get that weapon?
Player 2: I got it from new module. *brandishes it*. It's super rare, numbered limited edition. *grins*
Player 1: How much are you selling or trading it?
Player 2: Cryptic will have to raise the 100m cap. It's much worth than that. *double grin*

Right now, Cryptic is offering essentially, hate to use this word, trash as rewards. That's what will make people want those legendary keys. Heck, Cryptic can even make a NEW key (Mythical Dragon Key), double the price, that will increase the drop-chance slightly of the super-weapon/item(s) if you use them instead.

I don't see how this is solving anything. Actually its even contributing to the RNG problem.

I have witnessed something similar before in another mmorpg I used to play. It was absolutely horrible. 5 limited gems for 5 super rich players. The owners names were officially published. After a year 4 of them quit the game and the last 1 was banned for scamming countless of people. The other 99.99% of the community was upset. Everyone wanted to have these elusive items and of course they knew they would never have them. I don't like such HAMSTER. I'm totally against this.

grimalken · October 2016

I have hung up my sword and shield because of this, I imagine how much money I would have to spend to get decent drops if I consume my key on every trash chest I've opened in my year of playing, and it sickens me. Im no whale but I have spent alot of money on this "free to play" game....much more than I'm willing to admit openly and a hell of alot more than I would spend on a subscription based game where my 15 dollars a month affords me access to any loot in any dungeon i can accomplish given level/gear. I looked back at my history, and ill bet they can look back at my history and see they lost a lucrative customer who was willing to pay to have fun. I know I wont be back and all of my enchants and liquid AD i passed to a lower level player who has a lot of heart for this game but not the money required to move past about 2500 Ilevel. I hope it helps them to enjoy the game so my money spent isn't a complete waste. I made a lot of good friends here and as far as community and enjoyable game play goes, this game has it, it is a shame that its so expensive to play and this change just upped the anty, too rich for my blood I fold

demonmonger · October 2016

You my friend are the 99% we are all feeling this way. Most of my friends in game have me email or phone number and have already suggested other games to play. See you on the other other servers bro.

greyhawk · October 2016

Exactly what grimalkin said. A sub game affords access to ALL loot in the game. I'm leaning more and more that direction too. This game was great in that the cash shop stuff was an added bonus. Having it be the only way to progress will be its death...

dheffernan · October 2016

zebular said:

dheffernan said:

zebular said:
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on just after Module 3 that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key.
I doubt anyone will believe this. I certainly don't.

In any case, once a deliberate decision was made to let it go, the decline functionality was promoted from bug to feature.
I can understand that reasoning, especially since it was treated as an acceptable bug that was not deterred from use, even encouraged. What ever it was or is, that doesn't change that they're changing things. What we need to focus on is how that change will take effect, what it will mean, and whether or not it will be an acceptable change overall. In short, we need answers on just what this change means for our chest loot.

The change is unacceptable...the end. What they are doing is nothing less than putting an admission fee on dungeons or similar content. It's a money grab worthy of the Ferengi.

I am not paying a fee per dungeon run, not even with someone else's money. You can't monetize that.

wylonus · October 2016

i tried several times, never got Celestrie the healer, i missed Knox event, and gave up trying to get lightfoot thief for new companions, ran eLOL several time, never got any horns.

i just want that RNG become dead! dead! dead forever! it really feel like torture to do over and over and get nothing since mod 6, and want it stop.

all these are purely fable, it made them seem not real or exist.

only RNG is for lockboxes, RNG shouldnt be allow in quests, not in everywhere.

i like STO reward options when complete a mission, you have choices to select.

RNG are really Demoralizing, evil so vile. every players has thier own breaking point and how much they can tolerate before giving up.

kreatyve · October 2016

These changes are live on Preview. The patch notes are up. I highly recommend that players do try it out on Preview if possible and leave as much constructive feedback concerning this as possible. Perhaps we can at least sway them a little on the value of the rewards in the chests.

matthiasthehun76 · October 2016

I can give a full constructive feedback right now.

You know all why the entire things stinks and even my pre-elementary school god-son knows this is a cover up, not a bug/feature/bug fix? Cause each bug, we have since nearly 3 years is still in game and they only add more to it with each patch, each Mod, but when we ask for the fix of those bugs, no Dev time, but when it comes to monetization or a ZEN Shop item, voila suddenly they have Dev time. How odd...

Ok feedback time, i was in PVP and the Q is still broken, i get only matched with low IL PUGs, while my opponents are always premades, lost 30 matches this way now, cause my PUG team mates do nothing, just lurk around there and leech me of for easy AD in PVE clothing, heck even my opponents have mercy with me, which is wow.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg for me personally, cause i loved this game mostly for it's fast paced action-combat and the combination of PVP, but now i can only second @silverkelt , the problems simply culminate, this game is like a house, where the lazy housewife never cleans, just pushes the husband around.

wylonus · October 2016

voice from the grave, called the studio, the message was, "TEAR DOWN this PAYWALL! and Put that RNG down forever"
you will be visit by 3 ghosts of Masquerade of Liar, to show you your errors of ways.....

rollingonit · October 2016

arcticblitz said:
There are so many amazing suggestions in this thread for fixing the issue, What makes me sad given Cryptics past history at handling things that nothing will be done (or worse some poor token gesture to sweep it all under the carpet.)

I wonder how much PW will sell the studio to me for? Maybe then we'll be able to make it great.

Pretty much. If I had a nickel for everytime someone gave a reasonable, well thought out suggestion; that didnt have any impact on the issue, in the multiple threads like this Ive seen over the past 3 years; Id have enough to fix Neverwinter. But then again Id be working for PWE/Cryptic, so Id just pocket it or move it to other reskinned projects.

kieranmtorn · October 2016

Not much point. Just close your wallet & walk away. Come back when mod 11 drops to view the wreckage.

redvento · October 2016

zebular said:

hanniballa#2401 said:

zebular said:
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on just after Module 3 that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.

So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!

THATS POSTHOC NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!

They told you in secret years ago that it was a bug, but you're just now telling us after the fact? You're going to have to do better than that. You guys have screwed us so many times in the past year. This isn't going to end well if that's the defense you're planning on using.
This was not a statement to defend the change. It was a statement to clear up people calling the poorly conveyed notion that it was a "bug" as a lie. It was a bug, a bug that should have been fixed long long ago but for whatever reason, did not and it is clear that waiting so long was a poor decision. Regardless, it is being fixed now. I suggest we move on to provide feedback on what we expect out of this change, as it is clear by my own feedback early and almost everyone else here that the loot in the chests as they are now just plain sucks. That if we're going to be forced to consume a key on loot, that loot had better be worth the key, at the very least.

Here is my problem with this rationalizing.. If this was a bug, it should have been on a bug report, with a fix priority, or at least a road-map spot, not some sort of secret, but not really, it just never came up in the last x number of years with new moderators, or the community, or anyone outside of the apparent water cooler conversations where bugs are apparently noted mentally and no place else.

I can accept that this was always a bug and move on, however from an development standpoint this looks like/is extremely bad work processes and customer relations.

There is a reason that every change is met with cries "money grab," perhaps that perception should be addressed before bugs that no one has reported are fixed.

Dungeon Key Changes

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