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Micromanagement, frustration, and player engagement/enjoyment

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  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    Sorry the joke fell a little flat. As @beckylunatic pointed out, I agree with her on a lot of this stuff. A large portion of Neverwinter's gamplay has become exhausting. And as I've said in other places, there's just stuff I've "opted out" of.

    And that's what I mean by the George Carlin joke. Accumulating wealth and gear in this game has gotten so ridiculous to the point where it's like trying to feed yourself by taping sandwiches to your body. I thought it was so absurdly stupid, it made me think of some of the stuff we do in this game to try to get ahead.

    Logging in on 20 different toons to hit a button, then log out...and repeat for 4 hours to get the invocation "rewards" is dumb. And it's dumb that players feel like they need to drag themselves through tedium like this to "play" the game. The idea of storing up experience rewards or "bonus" salvage is dumb.

    Ugh, don't get me start on the whole Voninblood grind, either. I've sort of made peace with myself that I'll maybe get all that together before the spring thaw. And this is coming from a guy who grinded out all the Linu's favors for the ToD boons (heck, at least Tiamat was fun, drop decent loot for the time being, and there was an end in sight).

    If I had any advice for @mimicking#6533, it wouldn't be to worry too much about playing the first 10-20 levels of each class (honestly, you won't learn much as the game is so much more fun and rewarding at lower levels and then completely flips at level 70). It would be to click on @beckylunatic 's name and read her greatest hits.

    And heck, while I'm on another tirade, and maybe I have your attention...

    Imagine you're at your table, DMing a game. You're not really super prepared for this weeks session, so you have about an hour of actual content, but the game usually goes 5-6. So you pack a lot of fluff and filler into the game. And it works, once. Maybe twice. Your players still enjoy D&D, so initially your players don't mind. But then you start to say, "Wow! I can get away with shoveling 6 hours of D&D at my players while only preparing 1hour of actual gameplay, that's awesome." So you start burying your players in empty fluff, and silly grind, with slim to no rewards, and tasks that require them to do so much menial garbage, that they start to get frustrated and exhausted.

    But, for some strange reason, they keep coming back to the table, hoping that this week's session is going to be "like the good ol' days" where the adventures were packed with action, stories, and loot. But of course, you start to kick off the game and you can see their shoulders slump and the light in their eyes dim just a bit...that's where we're at right now.

    Exhausted is a good word for the game right now. We need a high level wizard to come in and start casting some great restoration spells, or just like getting caught out on the tundra during an Icewind Dale blizzard, we're just going to start slowing succumbing to the exhaustion, and fade away.

    Just wait till next mod @ironzerg79 where we have new types of RP that need to be RESTORED with lanolin.
  • bitt3rnightmar3bitt3rnightmar3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 788 Arc User

    I am choosing to not empower the gear, I am choosing not to invoke. Its not efficient, but makes the game more fun for me.

    I'd like to be at the point where I can choose not to empower gear. It would be nice to get some so I could at least not care for it properly. Zillions of HEs later in BS my brain is melting and I still have no boots to get in FBI. My DC is whom I would take but.. every time I run the HEs with my friends they get 2-3 boots and I get squarely nothing.

    Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
    --
    I'll never retrace my steps.

    Some of my best friends are Imaginary.


  • flyingleonflyingleon Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    How would I rate the game play this mod? I think PVP is better than PVE this mod, and I made my point.

    Join the Greycloaks



    Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
    Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
  • tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator


    I'd like to be at the point where I can choose not to empower gear. It would be nice to get some so I could at least not care for it properly. Zillions of HEs later in BS my brain is melting and I still have no boots to get in FBI. My DC is whom I would take but.. every time I run the HEs with my friends they get 2-3 boots and I get squarely nothing.

    It would be nice to have a system that progressively improves the odds for key items. Back when the Eye of Lathander was character bound, I got four of them... just never on the one toon that actually wanted to run with it.

    Such a system would reduce at least one aspect of the grind for players that end up on the bad side of the Random Number Generator.

    Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

    Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
  • voidgiftvoidgift Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 286 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    All the stuff that we have to do every day, and then at the end of the day we are left with nothing.

    It is not a game. It is a life, where you have to go to work to pay the rent and put food on the table.
    With dreams to be a king, first one should be a man.

    Rise to POWER with <House of Power>.

    The Exterminator - (NW-DLNXF3BGG)
  • jaysun1977jaysun1977 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 177 Arc User
    edited October 2016

    Just wait till next mod @ironzerg79 where we have new types of RP that need to be RESTORED with lanolin.

    I thought you were joking... Now I know that you weren't. You were even putting it mildly. Then again, what did I expect from the man that designed the core mechanics of this game?:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbZud2nm_Xg
  • bitt3rnightmar3bitt3rnightmar3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 788 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    So- I've come to the ability to make currency and progress my character in this game hinging on how many RNG drops I get from doing Heroic Encounters.

    How many ways do I have to say this. Just because people do heroic encounters doesn't mean they like them. A bot can do a heroic encounter. I am a person and I want to actually play this game- Because of that every time you add something else to this game it's crushing my will to play. Heroic encounters, Fishing, Masterwork Profession Nodes-- All of these things I attach the word FARM in front of. If I'm Farming I am a farmer- not an epic adventurer in an engaging world, having engaging game play with my friends in the spirit of DND. I am a basically AFKing player watching netflix instead of paying attention to what I'm doing as I'm farming HEs because I don't have to- There is nothing interesting there.
    Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
    --
    I'll never retrace my steps.

    Some of my best friends are Imaginary.


  • torontodavetorontodave Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 992 Arc User
    I still wish they would dig up the Holy Grail. The long forgotten buried artifact that might herald salvation, the Foundry.

    Give people a reason to play the thick library of story content you already have @mimicking#6533 ... *shrug*

    Give featured foundry quests a reward.

    Give foundry quests a daily key.

    Give the foundry a reward campaign.

    NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments
    NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
    Thanks for all the fish.
  • swirve#6429 swirve Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    Agree.

    Im close to quitting as im tired of the reward for playing vs luck / AH trading balance. Combined also with button pressing screens vs skill. Im actually enjoying Terraria x100 than NW atm.

    Also every decision from them seems to be rl cash orientated. Ive put a fair bit if real money in which ive stopped.

    I guess the strategy is keep the haves happy and just cycle new blood, though i feel that will hit the bottom line on PS4 in time.
  • krailovkrailov Member Posts: 302 Arc User
    Another voice to add that the grind is killing us, and that is the way they want it. To bad all those people that spent (real) money on Companions and Mounts in the early days, for all of your toons. You are not wanted now. They are making gaming life as hard as possible so as to remove the top players. They have actually designed the game for the farmers and for those willing to spend money as new players. Only changes will start as the Xbox and PS4 player base starts to evaporate as the grind starts to set in for them as well.

    They make huge changes (Gateway down over long weekend) without pre-announcing or with an alternative in mind (I mean really - it SUDDNELY happened - no). Cryptic has done this repeatedly in the past, and will continue to do so because they do not see the paying customer as someone to be valued, just used and abused.

    This thread is an eye opener. I will not renew my VIP, I will not spend another cent on the game. I will just focus on life outside the game now. Professions stop. Everything stops, and I will just play the content as it is, without grinding. Thankfully I have all 6 toons in a nice place to afford to do this, and contacts with high lvl Strongholds. I pity the new lvl 70 people.

    Make professions account wide (all toons accesses the same profession slots, all assets and tools are pooled). Make invoking account wide (one invoke applies to all toons). Make Alliances actually build a community, not individual Strongholds all with the same buildings. They have there work cut out for them, and it will not happen.. because it is work... Skyrim, Xcom, I am coming back...

    Might is not always right - the powerful sometimes forget that.

    The Small Band
  • spoomeister#9137 spoomeister Member Posts: 105 Arc User

    The issue boils down to.. we are doing way to much "non -playing" in the game, because its the only way to advance certain things.

    If they brought back the Gateway and shunted most of the fussy little maintenance tasks over to that, they could increase engagement on this game tenfold.

    I'd love to spend my time in-game on campaigns and some dungeons and skirmishes, and then other time on say my phone going through profession trees, selling stuff, etc.

    Do that, and perhaps tweak VIP a bit so that say rank 4's "invoke from anywhere" becomes a rank 10 or rank 12 "invoke automatically", and that would strip some of the distracting and tedious parts out of the game.

  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    Mother loving zombies..

    I get pissed off more and more lately, I seriously dont know why I log in, the game has gone to hell. They are not listening, creating dozens of similar threads get no where.

  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    Mother loving zombies..

    It wasn't quite necromancy yet @silverkelt but it's not yet another thread, just the same old, same old....

    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • tazz4nowtazz4now Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    I also agree with becky. In my case, I came to the same conclusion (when the mass exit of devs and akro just when mod 6 hit happened) that I will only play when I have nothing else to do. In anticipation of Mod 6, I grinded 4 characters in Tiamat and got all of the linu's needed to finish all of the boons on each, but that is where it stopped. The "old team" stated the quests from Neverember (which included the foundry quest of 4000 rad for 4 quests) were being removed and will be placed elsewhere since players complained that they kept forgetting about those quests, the "old team" and then the "new team" promised that the dungeons would only be offline for a short time period to be reworked into 3 and 5 man dungeons, the constant removal of "events" from the calendar, more and more artifact gear needed, equipment and then other stuff being removed, when the few "old" dungeons were brought back and we could no longer solo them (which I enjoyed when I just wanted to dungeon crawl and take my time and not run quests), the constant kicking from "forced" dungeons/skirmishes because of not being geared properly, not being the "right" class or not knowing their shortcuts and way too much else to list and now the "key" fiasco and the one time they FINALLY typed something and it's been a week with nothing again, which tells me how they truly feel about us players. I am still playing (barely) and have started SKT but I log in (only on one character) and collect the days quests and when I can no longer get any quests I run everything at once, rinse, repeat, then I stop playing or do some SH HE's for the horrendous amount of influence my small guild needs. Due to all of this I decided not to obtain any new artifact gear (which I am still running with the free "elemental level 70" weapons because I couldn't bring myself to grind the 100 whatevers need to get those weapons, let alone the other 2 or 3 weapons after that). I, too have decided I can no longer spend money on this game and when my VIP runs out I am not sure if I will bother to log in for awhile, if at all.

    on a side note......I was looking in my journal today and found a bunch of stuff I missed while leveling up and there is no way to do them now, off the top of my head I can only think of one right now.....the Whispering Caverns skirmish (which would be a great CTA), I bet there are a lot of us who became overleveled by that point to run it or totally missed the fact that it was even there. This is (or could be) an awesome game...the stories, the gameplay, the people, etc could make this a top 10 game but all I see is this company mismanaging this entire game and more and more I am wondering if it's being done on purpose to kill the game and make it easy to get out of whatever the contract is.....it's sad and too bad because they could make this game great!!!! just my 2 cents and maybe a little hope that Andy or a dev will read everyone's comments and actually do something about the mess they have made of this game (no I'm not holding my breath lol)
  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    yeah, i see way too many artifacts, they keep adding, some are repeats of other versions. all of those are boring and same, just taken up bag slots.

    i would love to make our own "customize" personal artifact where we select and see it grow powerful when the artifact matured.
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