PvP Options Need to be Reevaluated

matthiasthehun76 · September 2016

Hi Folks, Devs!

I see only 2 chances to save the complete, yes complete death of PVP for PUGs, that is either:

1. make the idea of @rayrdan happen and give us back Gauntlgrym (at least this) as true SOLO only,

or as much as i hate to say this,

2. Close DOM.

Let me explain why the harsh words. Since Solo Event is over i just see PUG stumping all night and day. Yes i play in different time zones, as my job allows me and the picture is pretty obvious, the mask has fallen off, not even PVP guilds pretend they are there for PMvsPM, latter one can be checked out in the Solo Event thread, especially in some comments.

Also the matches i have entered ever since are a bad joke. It is often PvP Guild Premades 24/7 against full PUG teams so player's surrender the match or some PvP Guild members only pretend to fight their other guild members on the enemy team.

Now i ask you all PVP lovers, what the heck is this worth? I too love PVP, but this is not even close to it, it's like watching politics on tv, it's all fake and dirty.

I ask the poetic question, is PVP DOM now meant only for a handful of guilds dear Devs? Cause if yes and Devs think so too, then rather make it premade only and both sides will win, no need for dual specs and we PUGs won't be humiliated anymore. (I know it won't happen, cause..., but this would be the most honest thing to do.)

OR

Wouldn't it be so easy to bring back solo or let the idea of @rayrdan get reality???

Thank you for reading!

mamalion1234 · September 2016

Today i left domination with 30 minutes penalty when i saw a worse condition than you described.
Enemy team was premade and i had in my team player from their guild on 1700 item level.
I SAid ok bb.

unq · September 2016

my thoughts about PvP

PS: imho

silver11 · September 2016

there are too many options on that screenshot, not enough people to fill it. i think there should just be a solo que option for pvp in general. so basically every mode can be started solo (dom, gauntl, siege) or premade (a mixture of groups of 2s, 3s, and 5s.) make pvp have a minimum item score based on the characters current level (so like level 70 might be 3k). also throw in three new maps. ty.

wintersmoke · September 2016

silver11#9318 said:
there are too many options on that screenshot, not enough people to fill it. i think there should just be a solo que option for pvp in general. so basically every mode can be started solo (dom, gauntl, siege) or premade (a mixture of groups of 2s, 3s, and 5s.) make pvp have a minimum item score based on the characters current level (so like level 70 might be 3k). also throw in three new maps. ty.

You think adding an IL gate will bring MORE players to PvP? 0,o

ionvnegativo · September 2016

Is common this days to see the "please kick me" from a party member when facing a premade, so yes, premades actually make ppl literally quit, there are also those that use the VIP portal to teleport out of the match.

there are already some known members of some guilds that chase 5v1 until they kill you, look for the names in the first 3 pages of top killers in leaderboard(not all of course), if you see them in a premade just stay in the campfire, they dont let you to get some points, if you dare to put a foot inside the node, you will see the respawn count in your screen.

emilemo · September 2016

Im quite liking the queue ban for leaving a pvp match. Its given me clarity, knowing that I cant queue again helps me forget this broken mess and focus on actual character progression and omg even fun. Its what I do these days when I end up vs a troll premade, all my pug team mates are down and 3-5 hungry bis dogs are trying to get a piece of my character. I just leave the match. Nothing forces me to subject myself to this HAMSTER and the queue ban protects me from myself while leaving the premade with a dead match

I count that as a win

drkbodhi · September 2016

I actually had a few of the most equal matches that I have been in... today. Even the PuG hunting guilds, we all know them, have started to get the hint. I call out every premade, asking them why do they even bother running when 95% of the teams they face will be pugs... most do not answer.

I was asked, along with Hadrian to join up with a 3-man team from a guild. We joined them and allowed the other teams to trade caps as soon as we 3-capped, which was very quickly. I think I ended the first match with less than 1000 points and 1 kill. The next match they wanted to fight us, as they were a more experienced team. It was fun because one thing I noticed, there are only a couple of PuG Hunting guilds, as I see it... maybe 3 or 4 max.

I got an answer from one of the sabotaging players we were teamed up with as to why they do it... for hang out time with friends. It is like a guild running a dungeon as.

Maybe it is the time at which I PvP, but I only see 2 premade guild teams running. They run for about an hour and leave... but it is always the same guilds.

I did see a first today... someone with a 1.1k iL in a match. Upon seeing that one of our members just called a GG. So... the whole Novice and Master concept is a great idea. It would save the "Masters" the struggle related to playing with teammates that have very little exp and low iL. It would also allow the "Novices" to gather gear without being trolled, as much. It would still happen without 1 little adjustment.

Make the Novice choice a Solo ONLY queue.

Though... anyone over 4k and easily lower their iL by removing artifacts and re-equipping them.

I also suggest a 100% reworking of the PvP campaign. The rewards are HAMSTER and lower leveled, some of the goals are too high with the game as it stands. I can get 1 or 2 double kills every few matches... but Triple Kills is maybe 1 match a week, that is just an example. Most people look at the campaign and laugh at how out of date it is.

IJS

Carry on...

vinceent1 · September 2016

ye hang out time. there goes the pvp competitivness

. just stand there with your gear, talk to your friends and enemy kill themselves with your reflect ability. how stupid system this is. I am member of that guild's alliance, there is no alliance pvp, just close circle of players to hang up time on v chat and some ingame "activity"

allmightymunky · September 2016

So sad that people will do anything possible for an upper hand. You only help kill the game when you do that. And for what? Because your life itself is so pointless and HAMSTER that you had to do something to make you feel ok about it? That's what I see when people do shifty things in games. They really need to fix pvp. That is what I loved most about other MMO's and I haven't been able to get into it on this game. I had a match with my guild the other day and we got rolled. I was able to get like 1 or 2 kills before they had all flags and were camping us. GG PVP. GO AWAY YOU SUCK!

quorb · September 2016

Some of the worst PvP that I've ever endured in an MMO is with this game. I've played many, many MMO's with PvP (Darkfall, UO (Pre-Trammel), Shadowbane, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Dark Age of Camelot, etc.). The matchmaking, is quite literally, the most horrific thing that I've seen in an MMO-PvP game to date.

I'm playing exclusively on the PS4 right now. It basically boils down to who spent the most money, has the guild perks, and running premades entirely dedicated to stomping PUG's by the thousands.

I played 7 matches this morning before server maintenance. Each and every one of those matches matches was against a premade group comprised entirely of BiS players. The scores were something like 1000-10, 1000-50, almost like clockwork. Something is seriously, seriously wrong with these developers that (obviously) condone this kind of gameplay. How long will this continue to go on, until there's basically nothing left of a PvP population?

I haven't the foggiest notion why on God's green earth they don't separate queues by item level(s). That would be the fair and balanced way of operating. Makes zero sense to me, but it becomes quite obvious that some of these devs are in the PUG-stomping groups and want to maintain farming opponents that have zero chance of winning a match against them, ir even fighting back. Fun? Fun! Fun?

What can I say? I'm a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and keep banging my head against the cement wall to complete some Burning gear. It's probably the worst game design I've ever seen from an MMO and PvP gameplay fused together.

quorb · September 2016

M-a-s-o-c-h-i-s-t is a flagged word?

Unreal.

allmightymunky · September 2016

I really don't see the fun in being able to win every game? Where is the competition? I used to run with full groups on CoD but I really got bored when we won everything. It made me quit that game or just team up with my wife and split screen party.

quorb · September 2016

I'm just trying to understand the rationale and philosophy of the developers of pitting low item level players against premades with the best gear/enchantments, with zero chance of ever winning a match?

I'd love to hear the justification for keeping the status quo, and *how* having a continual slew of unfair matches benefit the player base (PvP) in the long run?

I'm not understanding their "vision," nor the decision to keep it unbalanced to extremes.

sh00termcl0vin · September 2016

The free to play business model encourages this kind of play in pvp. Also you can add in the fact that pvp in neverwinter is an "afterthought" and is always the last thing to be addressed. This is the reason we are in the state that we are currently in. It's not surprising that it's messed up pretty bad at the moment considering how well their main focus, PVE, is going presently (a terrible empowerment system that no one likes, yet they continue to push). My advice is to just quit now if you looking for a game that is balanced, or you could just enjoy it for what it is and accept the fact that it will never be fair. You'll be a lot happier trust me.

kvet · September 2016

unq#3642 said:
my thoughts about PvP

PS: imho

This is a great idea, except for the mode list.

Novice - IL under 3K
Intermediate - 3K - 3.5K
Advanced 3.5K - 3.9L
Master 4K+

There's a HUGE difference between 3.2K and 4.2K, and there's even a big difference between 3.2 and 3.7 for that matter...

Now... the REAL problem is that Item Level is a terrible way to do it, but there's not a simple stat to use instead. Perhaps, a better stat would be some sort of combined score of all stats. Make it so, if you're queued for PvP, you cannot change (or turn off) SH boons or remove/change gear or make it so you can't do those things while inside a PvP match instance - either way, the result is the same: You can't alter your boons/gear in order to get into a lower pvp bracket, then throw on your maxed SH boons and high end gear for some novice-stomping fun.

Anyway...... really, the bottom line is a fairly serious rework is needed to balance PvP. I don't mean class balance, but player balance. Until that happens, PvP is broken. Right now, it's not a matter of some class being out of balance - sure there's issues there, but the fun factor of PvP is stolen by rotflstomping morons. Fact is, I can't even see how it's fun for them when they get into a match that's over in the first 10 seconds. They get only a few kills and if they don't accept gg, they get a few more and then stand there looking at the other team waiting out the timer in the campfire. It's just... silly.

quorb · September 2016

sh00ter,

I know what you're saying and the bottom line is the almighty dollar, while continually siphoning more from us.

That said, the balance is so far out of whack in PvP right now, that it just becomes a true comedy. Domination matches are like an old Benny Hill episode, but with much less laughter or a catchy theme song.

I'm just trying to understand how the developers could be so out to lunch with a part of their game and the player base at large. If they're playing the same game that we are, then surely they've seen the same things we have, over and over again. Question is, what are they going to do about it? If the answer is nothing, while keeping with the same agenda - PvP is dead, gone, and buried. I hope that's not the case, but how on earth they could let it go on as long it has, is highly discouraging moving forward.

The argument could also be made that if they made changes to make it more competitive, players could be more obliged to spend some money while seeing their character progress in the PvP realm. The pendulum swings both ways. Like I said earlier though, I do believe some of these developers are in the PUG-stomping guilds/groups, which is why no drastic changes have occurred and catering to the top 5%. That's all fine and dandy, but I hope that they have enough speed bumps left in the road to run over until there's no road left and there's nothing but the bottom of a ravine. Some would say they're already there, but I try to stay a little optimistic.

mamalion1234 · September 2016

The WAY a premade team plays it makes you to not want to make your own premade. Because you will have to build to do the same and the same thing all the time. TR cw combos and hr cw combos cc to not cap. if it was at least cc to death but this gameplay the way they build lack a lot damage.

even GReat weapon fighters on destroyer tree meant to do damage they are running all the time and they dont seem to be a threat ( premade ccvs premade cc i mean).

WELL all this contribution to this mess coming from daily powers too( daily! what a joke word). SPamming for example a cw ice storm almost permanent or a tr courage breaker hr combat even on combat the distruptive shot and the healers in those pt are more bored than the laziest man in the world.

ONE module ago we had guardian fighters one rotation enemy if wasnt careful i really personal didnt have any problem the gf was hit is not so easy.

OR go back to bubble time? what is the difference now with the old bubble?

AND IF someone plays different sucks ofcourse because dont copy premades uising full cc.
PREMADE rocket science tactics: courage breaker-repel-smoke-icy storm-smoke-repel.

PERsonally from a premade i would wait to see a way to kill a target after they gather the nodes. BEcause the only see i thing is to keep cc look i cc look i cc they even push you while a tr decides to be more aggresive and he missing his shocking for example.

WATCH video to see what we are doing. I am watching the video and i am seeing the same movement all over and over again .

MODUles AGO the fights were more interesting than this HAMSTER.

AND THE most important i will not include names due respect.
MANY of them told me they dont like the way they play their classes but is the key to win in a premade.
DO they have fun?

NOW i remembered and the active companion thing. That was very bad bug for the elite player active companions in domi what a shame. INVestement few ad companions with control resistance for example? SHame shame only elven allowed 8m cost. HEALS from companion( pig) what a shame. ONLY mount insignias acceptabel 5 of them to do the same thing. MOUNTS? lockbox item ofcourse in pvp allowed.

DO you remember the no active companions agreement between premades? Where is the same for the no mount insignia?

santralafax · September 2016

quorb#1247 said:

I'd love to hear the justification for keeping the status quo, and *how* having a continual slew of unfair matches benefit the player base (PvP) in the long run?

A lot us would love to hear that. My thoughts are it is something like this:

defiantone99 said:
Players are spending thousands of dollars to slay pugs.

They must be raking in a fortune if there are already BIS PVP guilds whacking everybody in PS4 PVP. It's only been around for a couple of months.

thingol777 · September 2016

i think it s natural that people form premades, this is a 5 v 5 pvp, which means teamplay and communication, best for that is to team up and communicate via teamspeak. people should find friends to team up for pvp, this is a mmo game not a solo game...
about BIS players, i would say that being BIS is the goal of any mmo player so complainng about BIS people running premades is pointless.
maybe cryptic can add a special 5v5 queue that pvp community is asking for a long time.
also, a few dailies and encounters should be reworked so the cc meta can't win matches, people wants to kill people to win, not only control nodes.
only a few changes can change that, rework elven battle enchantment, tone down every cc( particularly repel and courage breaker) make cc resist work vs prones, should be enough to push players to dps builds instead of cc only.
and please nerf the lion mount power, that shield is really too much, the prone should be enough.

thingol777 · September 2016

i like to premade to fight other premades, pugstomping isn't fun and solo queing doesn't get u balanced matches anyway.
solo q is frustrating because u can't communicate with your team and some players have no idea what to do to win a match, for example those one shot TR always running for their lives and abandoning a node so they don't risk to die .

mamalion1234 · September 2016

thingol777 said:
i like to premade to fight other premades, pugstomping isn't fun and solo queing doesn't get u balanced matches anyway.
solo q is frustrating because u can't communicate with your team and some players have no idea what to do to win a match, for example those one shot TR always running for their lives and abandoning a node so they don't risk to die .

Icewind dale is an option is the place you will not meet premades and you dont need to capture defend nodes all the time.
I Have a friend he was playing only icewind dale pvp when they realeased the mod 3.

mamalion1234 · September 2016

defiantone99 said:
It is not about BIS players or pre-mades. Solo q proved BIS players would rather solo q than pre-made, pre-made is just a farming tactic. The issue is about always teaming BIS players against non-BIS players. It is fun for BIS players and humiliating for everyone else. Non-BIS players are just NPCs to be farmed. Strict matchmaking using a combo of leaderboard stats, IL, Tenacity and offensive stats is what is needed.

THE problem is not that. IN the past in stronghold module our guild merged with old pvp guilds. WE tried to make inhouses which in paper is pm vs pm and took 1 WHOLE hour to synchronize queue. Even now happen this. SO i believe who form a team to queue they dont bother to pm vs pm because it will not put them imidiatelly together.

TAKE a look also in pve queue 4 tanks in public while my guildy tell me need tank for last boss cn and i cant join this instance and keep puting me with the other 3 tanks instance.

ALSO when i join premades i ask to try pm vs pm or i am saying if after 5 matches we will not meet a challenge i will go back do a dungeon run instead.
I find fangbreaker island more fun than pvp atm.

quorb · September 2016

Yes santralafax, I'm certain quite a few of them have dropped a couple grand on the game - probably more. Heck, some of the guilds on the PS4 required a $200-$300 (buying stronghold materials) entry fee from people (which is just utterly ludicrous to me).

The astral diamond exchange was up to 415 today as well, so they're definitely raking in the dough on the PS4 platform. BiS slot players and guilds are alive and well. Enchantments going for 7+ million AD. It's going to be brutal for new players with this current economy, not to mention the upcoming rough AD nerf on invoking.

Crazy.

PvP Options Need to be Reevaluated

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