New Lead MimicKing talks about Foundry

torontodave
torontodave Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 992 Arc User
https://www.twitch.tv/perfectworld_community/v/90990268

this is the livestream link

he talks about foundry at 13:45

mentions the wizards tower that's filled with cats (ive played that one!)

also mentions that he hasn't played mine yet. (scrub punk. i have mimics with scare factor =P)

the livestream chat is full of console kids who find the idea of the foundry hella interesting (ha) as well as other foundry fans

thom says that he doesnt want to spend his $10 on the foundry. =X

if you cant even give foundry quests a 200 voninblod reward / stronghold currency 200 influence from a librarian / aquamarine, then im on vacation. zzz. I N C E N T I V E =X daily key or foundry campaign (play these selected 30 foundry quests = get reward, 60, 90, 120, 240, etc. )

26:30 he talks about the new minigame to combat botting.. the same one STO uses? for skill nodes..

31:00 talks about Stronghold Siege and wonders why no one plays it - answer: LAG. companion interactions + clickies causing too much lag. unplayable, no one queues. remove a lane, remove clickies, remove companions. also, incentive. no incentive to queue for it.

35:00 he was on the team that wrote VT.. I liked VT. ;D

41:00 he talks about multiple gear/power loadout tabs. (hopefully updated appearance tabs too.)

43:45 talks about coal wards and maybe making invoking have something to do w them.

49:00 he teases next mod update 10.5? having a fishing minigame (ugh. stop putting my $10 to minigames like sahha and fishing pls. this is D&D)

anyways @mimicking#6533, you should play my quests. they're spelljammer. they have 4+ rating w 1000+ reviews. they've got skyships and space pirates and indiana jones moments. what more do you need? people love them. =P
(you can find links to them in my signature.)
(you too @panderus @asterdahl @rgutscheradev ;D)




NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
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Comments

  • mimicking#6533
    mimicking#6533 Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 83 Cryptic Developer
    totontodave- thanks for the play by play. Remember, its not just about fishing.
    Cheers
    M.K.
    Go ahead, click on the chest...
  • iandarksword
    iandarksword Member Posts: 976 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    @mimicking#6533 While you're leveling, I'd hope that you (and other party members are certainly welcome) could try some of our Harper Chronicles quests. We're trying to get a quest to accompany each leveling zone by a different author all centered around the Mysterious Traveler NPC. Due to some of them being newer quests, and the low amount of plays, they would need to be found by typing "Harper Chronicles" into the search field. Not all zones have a completed quest, there are many that are "works in progress." I just wanted to invite you to try them since you mentioned you were leveling characters, and I would hope that you enjoy them!
    Post edited by iandarksword on
    "I don't know, I'm making it up as I go..."
    Featured Foundry Quest: Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG
    Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
  • kreatyve
    kreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,539 Community Moderator
    @mimicking#6533 Please consider investing some into the foundry. It really, really, really can be awesome, but it needs a lot of love. There are so many incredibly awesome Foundry authors, and some really great quests. Some of the quests are so good that I wish the can be part of the base game (and I'm sure there's a lot of people who feel the same way!)
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
    Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
    kuI2v8l.png
  • zebular
    zebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited September 2016
    @mimicking#6533 I miss the foundry... it was one of the two reasons I was drawn to Neverwinter and remains one of the reasons that keep me here, albeit that it now lingers on a "hope" that it will be given a "breath of life." Of course.. the main reason for me being drawn to and staying here is because this is a glorious MMO representation of my beloved Forgotten Realms that I enjoy playing in. I just wish I could enjoy the foundry again, yet it's been so neglected.
  • sameriker
    sameriker Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    @mimicking#6533 I am a database engineer for a security company here in southern Michigan. I know a thing or two about the Foundry and the source code. Could you humor a fellow geek and expand on what you meant by "it is not that simple to add content to the Foundry" when 100% of the content is found in the hogg files on each and every harddrive that runs the game?

    Correct me if I am wrong, but all you need to do is add the data fields to the database so the Foundry access the mesh model of any given character or object. Then you need to add an icon to the Foundry GUI for the item. Also I don't see the need to have the Foundry require the network connection. Foundry authors could write offline without network having to be active and upload the Foundry script (because that is what the Foundry does) but once you are logged in an online. This would save many headaches, actually developing offline without having to log into the game just to verify we are working on a Foundry quest.

    You have to remember, not all of us are high school teenagers. Many of us are professionals like yourself. I would appreciate a more detailed response. Thank you.
    Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion. ~ Mark Twain
  • hustin1
    hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,322 Arc User
    sameriker said:

    @mimicking#6533 I am a database engineer for a security company here in southern Michigan. I know a thing or two about the Foundry and the source code. Could you humor a fellow geek and expand on what you meant by "it is not that simple to add content to the Foundry" when 100% of the content is found in the hogg files on each and every harddrive that runs the game?

    Correct me if I am wrong, but all you need to do is add the data fields to the database so the Foundry access the mesh model of any given character or object. Then you need to add an icon to the Foundry GUI for the item. Also I don't see the need to have the Foundry require the network connection. Foundry authors could write offline without network having to be active and upload the Foundry script (because that is what the Foundry does) but once you are logged in an online. This would save many headaches, actually developing offline without having to log into the game just to verify we are working on a Foundry quest.

    You have to remember, not all of us are high school teenagers. Many of us are professionals like yourself. I would appreciate a more detailed response. Thank you.

    I'd like to second that. I've worked with databases and lots of different software projects, but I currently work on flight-control software for manned aircraft. Some of us really can talk shop :smile:
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • mrgiggles651
    mrgiggles651 Member Posts: 790 Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    sameriker said:

    @mimicking#6533 I am a database engineer for a security company here in southern Michigan. I know a thing or two about the Foundry and the source code. Could you humor a fellow geek and expand on what you meant by "it is not that simple to add content to the Foundry" when 100% of the content is found in the hogg files on each and every harddrive that runs the game?

    Correct me if I am wrong, but all you need to do is add the data fields to the database so the Foundry access the mesh model of any given character or object. Then you need to add an icon to the Foundry GUI for the item. Also I don't see the need to have the Foundry require the network connection. Foundry authors could write offline without network having to be active and upload the Foundry script (because that is what the Foundry does) but once you are logged in an online. This would save many headaches, actually developing offline without having to log into the game just to verify we are working on a Foundry quest.

    You have to remember, not all of us are high school teenagers. Many of us are professionals like yourself. I would appreciate a more detailed response. Thank you.

    I'd like to second that. I've worked with databases and lots of different software projects, but I currently work on flight-control software for manned aircraft. Some of us really can talk shop :smile:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=WaRfBsZVO3Y
    I wasted five million AD promoting the Foundry.
  • markhawkman
    markhawkman Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    sameriker said:

    @mimicking#6533 I am a database engineer for a security company here in southern Michigan. I know a thing or two about the Foundry and the source code. Could you humor a fellow geek and expand on what you meant by "it is not that simple to add content to the Foundry" when 100% of the content is found in the hogg files on each and every harddrive that runs the game?

    Correct me if I am wrong, but all you need to do is add the data fields to the database so the Foundry access the mesh model of any given character or object. Then you need to add an icon to the Foundry GUI for the item. Also I don't see the need to have the Foundry require the network connection. Foundry authors could write offline without network having to be active and upload the Foundry script (because that is what the Foundry does) but once you are logged in an online. This would save many headaches, actually developing offline without having to log into the game just to verify we are working on a Foundry quest.

    You have to remember, not all of us are high school teenagers. Many of us are professionals like yourself. I would appreciate a more detailed response. Thank you.

    I'd like to second that. I've worked with databases and lots of different software projects, but I currently work on flight-control software for manned aircraft. Some of us really can talk shop :smile:
    I have discussed this with ZeroniusRex and Tacofangs on the STO forum many times.

    Short version:
    Anything they add to the main game has stuff attached to it that needs to be removed to add it to the Foundry. Then they have to take that copy and add it to the database of Foundry assets.

    The specifics varies based on what they're adding.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
  • valcontar73
    valcontar73 Member Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited September 2016

    I have discussed this with ZeroniusRex and Tacofangs on the STO forum many times.

    Short version:
    Anything they add to the main game has stuff attached to it that needs to be removed to add it to the Foundry. Then they have to take that copy and add it to the database of Foundry assets.

    The specifics varies based on what they're adding.

    Mmmm, it's a point, but I find difficult to understand.

    I know what it takes to create a single asset for a game, (Unity):
    - High poly mesh for volume textures
    - Low poly mesh for the engine(<- this is really hard to do trust me)
    - Collision mesh? Maybe, it depends on the engine.
    - UVMapping
    - Textures (diffuse, normal, ambient occlusion, emisive, thickness/height, id)
    - Center the Pivot!! (what did you do with the Thayan assets????) :) , and at least the use of three different softwares before import the finished asset to the engine.

    This is only for a non-animated object/assets, do not talk about rigging... and skeletons, and weights, and animations, well not today. So, because I don't know what engine they are using or how it works, I only can guess they add some kind of scripts? Not a big deal to remove them (at least in Unity). So mmmm....

    But for the face expression and how he said that is very difficult to add assets for the foundry, I don't think he is lying, maybe the engine is capricious and only eats some kind of stuff like a mimic... ;)

    But we also saw the tool-engine they use to create maps + characters, it would be good to update this tool to once you finish some asset, hit the button "send to foundry", but again, as I don't know how capricious is the engine, maybe I'm saying something wrong or something that just can't be done.

    And trust me, when you finish a 3D asset and someone comes to you and say: "You should remove this, or move it a bit, or that texture doesn't fit well..." first thought is to kill him, slowly, very slowly.

    Btw, I'm just a noob in the 3D world, so I dont't wanna teach a lesson to anyone, it's just what I know about the infinite world of video-games.



    NWS-DLXTNXRF2 - Angeline von Stein
    NWS-DOVA9JIJV - The Lost Seneschal
    NW-DT3221YUY - The Wildcross Bride

    Foundry Grand Master.
  • markhawkman
    markhawkman Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    Well, 3-d models are only part of it. There's the other stuff that goes with it. Foundry Mobs need to be coded to have variable stats based on player level. But open world mobs have static levels.

    Mission maps have a variety of mission related stuff coded into the map. Spawn points, triggers, all sorts of stuff. Also vis regions.... these let the developer selectively make certain part of the map not render from certain locations. But... when used in Foundry the author might choose to build a large part of the map in a location other than what the devs originally used. So vis regions might not perform in Foundry the way they do in the rest of the game. Thus they get removed. Or in some cases... the devs save a copy of the finished map geometry before they add all the mission coding and just port that to Foundry. Although I seem to remember something about how they're not stored quite the same. But I don't have the technical details.

    Granted stock Foundry maps aren't entirely static. It might come with stuff like barrels you can kick across the room, or flames that will burn you.... But they don't have interacts, or traps, etc....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
  • valcontar73
    valcontar73 Member Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited September 2016

    Foundry Mobs need to be coded to have variable stats based on player level. But open world mobs have static levels.

    Yep, that could be solved with a variable: 0 - Open World, 1 - Foundry, 2 - Boss, etc...

    But I understand that NPCs or mobs are a different story, and probably will be hard to port to the foundry,
    as you can change their appearance amongst many other things.

    Mission maps have a variety of mission related stuff coded into the map. Spawn points, triggers, all sorts of stuff.

    Yep, but in a "Perfect World" the way to go must be:

    the devs save a copy of the finished map geometry before they add all the mission coding and just port that to Foundry.

    Also vis regions.... these let the developer selectively make certain part of the map not render from certain locations. But... when used in Foundry the author might choose to build a large part of the map in a location other than what the devs originally used. So vis regions might not perform in Foundry the way they do in the rest of the game. Thus they get removed.

    I think that this will be an error of the foundry author, if you choose to build in a location other than what the devs originally used you will probably get some nasty bugs and errors, but I certaintly did this with some of my maps XD so well...

    Although I seem to remember something about how they're not stored quite the same. But I don't have the technical details.

    Again, as we don't know the technical details, we can only speculate.

    Granted stock Foundry maps aren't entirely static. It might come with stuff like barrels you can kick across the room, or flames that will burn you.... But they don't have interacts, or traps, etc....

    The map itself is static, a single asset.
    The barrels you can kick = asset + script
    Flame that will burn you = asset (FX) + script

    So again, as we don't know the technical details, we only can speculate about this. It's true what you say, it makes me think about the map with the "plane of death". So yeah, some maps come with some "assets" + "scripts" and some others with nothing. It's curious.

    Oh lol, and btw, if you @mimicking#6533 are reading this, you must know, that the Snowy Detailed Mountain Map has a nasty bug that all the vegetation assets (trees + stones/rocks) are all in the same elevation point, and not attached to the terrain... since Icewindale mod. I don't know what happened there, but that bug ruined one of my foundries.

    NWS-DLXTNXRF2 - Angeline von Stein
    NWS-DOVA9JIJV - The Lost Seneschal
    NW-DT3221YUY - The Wildcross Bride

    Foundry Grand Master.
  • sameriker
    sameriker Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    No 3D models are not a part of it, all the 3D models within this game are found on your hard drive. I cannot stress this enough, they don't need to make models for what already exists in the game. The hogg files contain every line of audio and ever 3D object and creature. It is already there. When they run update, they patch (add to) the hogg files they get bigger over time.

    I cannot go into the specifics here for good reason. But you look at your hogg files;
    sound.hogg is the biggest with all the music and corny one liners
    bins.hogg is next this is the varies models and animation
    texture.hogg and the images or skins of those models
    etc..

    Most of us, already know (has been discussed here) the Foundry editor makes a script file on your computer while you are editing and this gets backed up to the server side. We know this because, we crash often and it tells us there is a more current copy available. The small script is uploaded to the server. We can see the script but we are not allowed to self edit the script without the Foundry.

    Back in the old days on STO, we talked about the script file and this is how simple the Foundry places an actor;
    Component 286 { ChildIDs 287, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293 VisibleName "Klingon squad - Ens Lt Cmd 04 #1" Type KILL Placement { MapName 395182327 RoomID -4370 Position 1092.860718, 0, 1219.519043 Rotation 53.080235 } MapType PREFAB_GROUND ObjectID -1190560604
    The server doesn't see a 3D model, it sees an Object ID number. These hand full of numbers is all that is needed to add an asset. I gathered from the video at 14:22 "At the end of the day when I have $10 to spend..." My department at work is small, we can eat $10 in 8 minutes. Which in my opinion is just like saying, "At the end of the day when I have 8 minutes to spend...". I don't blame Mimicking and no one should. He is a departmental manager such as myself. We are told what and where money is earmarked for projects. The only way the STO and NW Foundry will become "better" than it is would be done off hours or a budget of zero.

    It is sad, but the Cryptic accountants don't understand, so good men and funding for projects are withheld.
    Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion. ~ Mark Twain
  • valcontar73
    valcontar73 Member Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    I think the problem is that the "Object ID number" refers to a specific foundry object/asset, not the game asset we see in live server.

    So I mean, (you know my english...) maybe there is an "Object ID number" for a "house asset" for the live server, and another one for the same foundry "house asset", even if the object use the same mesh + textures + animations + scripts, etc...

    That means, they almost duplicate all the assets, that makes no sense either, but who knows...

    Well, thinking about it, game assets are probably baked, so our video-cards don't need to calculate the light + shadows, but the foundry assets aren't baked, because there is no way to know which lights or light environment will use the author.

    To resume:
    Game Live Server Assets: Have some kind of properties.
    Foundry Assets: Have same, less or different kind of properties, even if they are "equal" to the game assets.

    Post edited by valcontar73 on
    NWS-DLXTNXRF2 - Angeline von Stein
    NWS-DOVA9JIJV - The Lost Seneschal
    NW-DT3221YUY - The Wildcross Bride

    Foundry Grand Master.
  • melinden
    melinden Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    It seems confusing to me to hear the discussion about wanting to return stories to Neverwinter and then dismissing any considering of investing time and effort into the Foundry. We got this same answer during the AMA about 10ish months ago, however. It simply makes it appear more final that there won’t be any work done for the remainder of the game’s lifespan. I wish there was some magical combination of words we could use to make our argument more effective in changing the minds of the folks at Cryptic but clearly our best efforts to date haven’t worked.

    Since the word from Cryptic has been, repeatedly, that there is not the work hours or money to pay for the workhours to support the foundry, is there was a way in which the community could supply some of those?

    For example, would there be a way for a system in which player volunteers either select foundries to feature (once a week or once a month) or even just submit a shortlist to @strumslinger? There are already Community Moderators who assist with maintaining the forums so there is already a model for this sort of thing.

    Authors have the time and the energy to create the stories and manage our little corner of Neverwinter. What, if anything, can we do to demonstrate we can be trusted to take up some of this workload for Andy and so improve our community? We have had good outcomes with the contests but I am sure we could do more. Andy?

    As an aside, I’m not sure but based on the description @mimicking#6533 gave, it could have been my foundry The Tower of the Lost Wizards he played. It has a couple of cats in the beginning area, one is sitting on a scroll, and it features a wizard’s tower. I was also thinking it could have been @mrthebozer’s amazing Bonderleaf’s Thorough Aggregator.

    -@DoctorBadger


    Find me in game with @DoctorBadger
    (Un)Academic Field Work Foundry Campaign: NWS-DAPZB2CTZ
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    I focused on his wanting to fix pvp.
    @mimicking#6533

    Domination Pvp won't work as long as stronghold boons are allowed to be used outside stronghold maps.

    And stronghold boons broke stronghold pvp. So did stronghold wards


    The average player has
    44,000 - 90,000 hp
    8000 - 16000 power
    0 - 3000 lifestyle
    1700 - 2500 defense

    Stronghold boon characters have
    120,000 - 220,000 hp
    18,000 - 45,000 power
    5000 -14,000 lifestyle
    5000 - 12,000 defense

    New players have no way to battle them and win. Old players have no way to battle them and win.

    So strongholds pvp is dead

    And domination pvp is dead



    Simple fix - let stronghold boons only work in strongholds maps
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • markhawkman
    markhawkman Member Posts: 117 Arc User

    I think the problem is that the "Object ID number" refers to a specific foundry object/asset, not the game asset we see in live server.

    So I mean, (you know my english...) maybe there is an "Object ID number" for a "house asset" for the live server, and another one for the same foundry "house asset", even if the object use the same mesh + textures + animations + scripts, etc...

    That means, they almost duplicate all the assets, that makes no sense either, but who knows...

    Well, thinking about it, game assets are probably baked, so our video-cards don't need to calculate the light + shadows, but the foundry assets aren't baked, because there is no way to know which lights or light environment will use the author.

    To resume:
    Game Live Server Assets: Have some kind of properties.
    Foundry Assets: Have same, less or different kind of properties, even if they are "equal" to the game assets.

    that sounds about right actually. :)
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
  • torontodave
    torontodave Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 992 Arc User
    Sure a Foundry Editor update with some assets would be sweet. But we're not even asking for that.

    We're just asking for some incentive to play the best Foundry quests. Give me a REASON to play all those featured quests other than 'for the stories.' =/
    NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments
    NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
    Thanks for all the fish.
  • hustin1
    hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,322 Arc User

    I think the problem is that the "Object ID number" refers to a specific foundry object/asset, not the game asset we see in live server.

    So I mean, (you know my english...) maybe there is an "Object ID number" for a "house asset" for the live server, and another one for the same foundry "house asset", even if the object use the same mesh + textures + animations + scripts, etc...

    That means, they almost duplicate all the assets, that makes no sense either, but who knows...

    Well, thinking about it, game assets are probably baked, so our video-cards don't need to calculate the light + shadows, but the foundry assets aren't baked, because there is no way to know which lights or light environment will use the author.

    To resume:
    Game Live Server Assets: Have some kind of properties.
    Foundry Assets: Have same, less or different kind of properties, even if they are "equal" to the game assets.

    that sounds about right actually. :)
    I've been wondering for a while if part of the publishing process involves performing those pre-calculations like shadows.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • markhawkman
    markhawkman Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    Tacofangs made a neat post about that recently on the STO forum. Apparently the majority of publishing(in STO) is a process called "beaconizing". AIs do not move fluidly around the map, the map has invisible nodes called beacons and the AIs will usually move to a beacon each time they move. I figure the NWO pathing works the same way.
    From: http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1222089/do-boffs-have-something-against-wall-doors
    tacofangs said:

    Yeah, pretty much what GD said.

    While you, the player, have free will, and can walk/jump wherever you like, NPCS follow along paths between somewhat randomly placed nodes, we call "Beacons." Beacons are automatically generated on every map, in a process called Beaconizing (duh).

    This beacons are generally a few feet apart from each other, and they all connect to others nearby to create a big web.

    Here's a screenshot of our beacon debug viewing mode:


    NPCS when going from one place to another, go to the beacon nearest them, and then follow the web of lines from one point to another to reach their goal.

    Beacons are only drawn inside of playable geometry, starting from the spawn point outward. That's great in theory, but it means that if I (or another environment artist) leaves a gap or a hole someplace, the beacons can escape, and start flooding areas that the player (and NPCs) is never meant to get to.

    Even without obvious holes, beacons are sneaky and still find their way out sometimes. There are bugs in the system, which cause beacons to connect to each other when they probably shouldn't.

    In the image above, look at the blue and pink lines that are coming from the lower left and right of the image. Those lines converge on a point just left of my character in the doorway. But if you follow the lines, they cut through a bit of geometry. In this particular spot, the offense is pretty minor and your Boffs probably aren't going to get hung up on things. But there are places where it can be worse than that, or where there end up only being a single line to follow through the doorway. Those can end up causing more issues.

    It's one reason why doors have to be as big as we make them. Even though they aren't a realistic human size, we need to make them big enough that the Beaconizer can find a path through them.

    I know all of that doesn't necessarily solve anything for you. But as GD said, if you move some stuff around in the area, or re-publish, the new beacons might get put in slightly different spots, and connect through the door better.

    Good luck!

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
  • solbergx
    solbergx Member Posts: 654 Arc User
    I am really glad you guys are all on this, because i don't understand much of what you explain, but i feel safe with you guys trying to fix all this!!
  • arcticblitz
    arcticblitz Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 126 Arc User
    It seems to me that it purely comes down to a cost factor (apologies i didn't catch the cast so i'm assuming here) i.e the cost of devoting Dev time ect to the fixing the issues. If possible @Mimicking would you be able to give us an estimated cost in addressing the key issues? Once we have this cost and thinking outside the box a little what about a community Kickstarter project to raise the necessary funds to complete the project.

    A couple of points in favor of this approach

    - Cryptic doesn't risk money investing in the project because the community has raised the funds.
    - Gives a true indication as the importance of the feature as people are financially committing to a project.
    - There are a several games that have taken this approach and raised the required funds.

    Obviously there are a bunch of things that need to happen in order to make it all work such as scoping and resources correctly allocated to complete the project ect. if we start with simple how much will this cost at least we can test the communities desire (with their wallets) in having the project completed.

    Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
    Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger

    Guild Founder: -HunterS-
  • melinden
    melinden Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    The Kickstarter idea might work. At this point I am willing to spend money to get more foundry resources but for many reasons the "VIP for foundry" causes a lot of issues that have been discussed before.*

    If we had some reassurance that yes, this money would go to the foundry, I would back it.

    *The short version is that it would make two classes of foundry adventures "VIP" and "Normal" and no one would play the normal ones, meaning that the Authors would almost be forced to purchase the "VIP" option.
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  • arcticblitz
    arcticblitz Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    melinden said:

    The Kickstarter idea might work. At this point I am willing to spend money to get more foundry resources but for many reasons the "VIP for foundry" causes a lot of issues that have been discussed before.*

    If we had some reassurance that yes, this money would go to the foundry, I would back it.

    *The short version is that it would make two classes of foundry adventures "VIP" and "Normal" and no one would play the normal ones, meaning that the Authors would almost be forced to purchase the "VIP" option.

    Agreed , I don't think a VIP foundry is the way to go. in order to get mass community support it would need to apply to all regardless of who supported the project (ie non-authors like myself who has enjoyed a number of foundries and would support the development of tools). I also agree there would need to be safeguards / contracts that all funding was directed to foundry again there are various ways to handle that.

    ** I wonder if its worth starting a poll in the General Discussion to see what the over all interest level is
    Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
    Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger

    Guild Founder: -HunterS-
  • markhawkman
    markhawkman Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    melinden said:

    The Kickstarter idea might work. At this point I am willing to spend money to get more foundry resources but for many reasons the "VIP for foundry" causes a lot of issues that have been discussed before.*

    If we had some reassurance that yes, this money would go to the foundry, I would back it.

    *The short version is that it would make two classes of foundry adventures "VIP" and "Normal" and no one would play the normal ones, meaning that the Authors would almost be forced to purchase the "VIP" option.

    Well, it'd probably need to be enough money in the kickstarter to pay a new dev's salary...
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
  • melinden
    melinden Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    I imagine they could do it with the staff they have instead of hiring and training someone. I think it would be more realistic to think of it as overtime pay.

    Of course with Kickstarters you can set levels of goals. As sad as it makes me, the base goal could be "fix bugs" that break up groups, make it so you can't test a map with a teleporter, and the broken map.

    After that it could be "add assets from X,Y, or Z expansions", then on to new material if you get into stretch goals. But those two goals would be enough for a lot of people.
    Find me in game with @DoctorBadger
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  • iandarksword
    iandarksword Member Posts: 976 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    There's a lot of legal mumbo jumbo likely involved with raising and then essentially "gifting" Cryptic with the money raised. How do you enforce that the money only be spent on resources for the Foundry? Why not simply crowd-fund a game of one's own? Where does that leave the rest of the player base? Can they crowd-fund their own interests, usurping the decision-making of the development team? Why isn't the player base simply not buying more Zen to add to the game's budget coffers? There's a lot more questions than answers.

    The current VIP program has already created a 2 tier player base (haves and have nots) where those that choose not to have quite the uphill climb versus those that don't. Foundry VIP would do as previously stated. If there's more funding needed, why not change their minds on the "always be free-to-play" and go with a subscription model of funding? If you're going to require a fee to achieve the desired content might as well call it what it is...
    "I don't know, I'm making it up as I go..."
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  • torontodave
    torontodave Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 992 Arc User
    oops.

    I just got this message.. "@TorontoDave lol I watched the video,he said he WAS going to play them, just needed time...no promises as to WHEN"

    So if he actually said he was gonna play them, I retract the punk comment. ;D

    As for crowdfunding the Foundry.. meh. It should be able to pay for itself. With incentive to play featured foundries, it would've created an endgame that the game is sorely lacking right now. =X *shrug* [logs in for 20 minutes of gated campaign weeklies and logs out]

    "Stories" and all that. ;D
    NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments
    NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
    Thanks for all the fish.
  • melinden
    melinden Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    But we know that it isn't going to happen. It has been repeated several times to us now.
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  • zebular
    zebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited September 2016

    oops.

    I just got this message.. "@TorontoDave lol I watched the video,he said he WAS going to play them, just needed time...no promises as to WHEN"

    So if he actually said he was gonna play them, I retract the punk comment. ;D

    As for crowdfunding the Foundry.. meh. It should be able to pay for itself. With incentive to play featured foundries, it would've created an endgame that the game is sorely lacking right now. =X *shrug* [logs in for 20 minutes of gated campaign weeklies and logs out]

    "Stories" and all that. ;D

    From my transcript, which is not yet complete (I have another 20 minutes left to transcribe), the part on Foundry went like this:

    Thomas: "Let's talk about Foundry."

    Andy: "Okay, yeah, let's talk about Foundry."

    Thomas: "I love Foundry, I've built Foundry Missions. I helped prototype it. I ran through a Foundry Mission just the other day, it was this cool wizard's tower. It had some great lore in there, I wrote it down somewhere, the author's name, I give him praise and cool money. But it was really great because the first thing you do, is you walked into a... it was like a school of wizardry, and there are cats running everywhere and this cat... there's this scroll on the table and the cat jumps up on this scroll and you click on it and it's like "well of course that's what cats do.." Good story telling. I love that so, thanks! Shout out to that Dungeon Master that created that."

    Thomas: "I know you guys want more stuff in Foundry. I want more stuff in Foundry. At the end of the day, when I have Ten Dollars to spend on new content or updates on things that we can do for quality of life issues, or research for new stuff coming up.. I need to figure out where that money goes and what I can spend to list. Believe me, on my White Board, I have the list of "Cool Things That We Want to Change" and pretty much everything that everyone sent out in the AMA is on my "List." Except for there is one fella who asked me to play some of his foundry quests, I haven't gotten to that yet."

    Andy: "That is Torontodave."

    Thomas: "Torontodave, Torontodave! I'm not promising either, but I'll put it on the "List.""

    Andy: "I'm seeing a lot of questions about the Console having Foundry. Right now, we don't have any plans for that. That's the little, speaking from your point I guess, it's really difficult to put into Console, right?"

    Thomas: "Yeah, so it's even difficult to put into PC. You'd think that it's just basically swapping over and giving you guys the custom parts and stuff, but it isn't. When we built Foundry, it's literally making unique items and unique costumes and unique powers and unique pieces for every single thing that we have in the game with tags so that you can use them. Am I sad as you that Foundry doesn't have a lot. Yeah, but honestly, I don't know when I'm going to have time to fix it."

    Andy: "It's a balancing act."

    Thomas: "It is a balancing act..."

    Andy: "I think what I always say is that development is a lot harder when you're actually doing it than I guess if you're just a player right. Players are awesome, they give us all their bugs, we love you guys so much but development is very difficult. I'm not even a developer. Sometimes they consider me a dev, but I'm not. That's why it's great to hear that, you know, very honest answer."

    Thomas: "Yeah, there's no lolly-gagging around it. Sad, but it's fun. If you guys aren't playing Foundry Missions, you should. Why should you? Is it to get the loot? NO! It's because you guys are great storytellers and you should go out and enjoy each other's stories. Way back when, let me go to the way back machine when I first started... My plan was to have Strongholds, which we have now, and we'll talk about that later, to have Strongholds... my plan was like, you have your Stronghold, you meet all your friends at your local tavern at your Stronghold in your zone, in your map, and then be like, "Okay guys, I built a dungeon in Foundry. Let's go play D&D!" Right, that was my plan originally. So in your Stronghold, you're meeting up and there's a door where you can go hit your Foundry Missions. Something I'm still playing around with, and we've got some of the parts but we won't be able to support all the parts. That's one thing as a Lead Designer, and I've been working with... we have a new Executive Producer, Gordon /need spelling of last name/, who just joined us this week. Gordon and I have already been in talks about retention, and not just about fixing things in the game, and making it better because it's important to us."

    I should have the remaining transcription finished sometime tonight after work. Been super busy lately, so only been able to spend an hour here and there transcribing it.
    Post edited by zebular on