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Recent changes to stop bots killing the guilds?

samerikersameriker Member Posts: 169 Arc User
My new VP contacted me about changes made by Cryptic to prevent gold spammers. These changes are not good at all for new players coming online. They are anti-social at best. How is a new player suppose to join my guild, if they can't send me a PM or mail? "Hey player X, I like the way you played there! Please send me a PM if you want to join my guild." We did a lot of recruitment straight out of Blacklake and Tower District. The changes effect many new players all the way to the Neverdeath Graveyard. If you don't complete the Plague Tower, you get to a mute all the way to level 70?

So I went to log on the Gateway to check the guild roster.... oops! Did someone forget to pay the bill? No? More anti-botting measures. I haven't been online since August and I am beginning to think my guild is just screwed without me having to take 10 minutes to log into the game, just to send mail or inspect my guild. Good bye chat, good bye Gateway, good bye guild recruitment...

I run a seriously helpful guild, we give new players items they need to progress faster like companions, weapons, armor, and upgrades. We can't even trade with the new people. NOT even people who we place in our guild as members or on a friends list. It is my opinion, these changes are doing much more damage than good. Unless I am misinformed, the guilds will dissolve, the average new player won't play much beyond level 10 without interaction with other players. I thought this was a "social game"?
Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion. ~ Mark Twain

Comments

  • btairbornebtairborne Member Posts: 352 Arc User
    It's worth the cost. Just change your strategy of starting helping to when the newbies emerge from Neverdeath Graveyard. The sky is not falling on your guild.
  • pr3stigexpr3stigex Member Posts: 419 Arc User
    It's not that big of a deal, I assume the most affected will be guilds of the leveling nature. Just send them an xbox msg and when they unlock the feature then you can invite them.
    Lash Urzoth 3.7k GWF, Pr3sTiGe 3k SW.
  • kvetkvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    "I haven't been online since August and I am beginning to think my guild is just screwed without me having to take 10 minutes to log into the game, just to send mail or inspect my guild. Good bye chat, good bye Gateway"

    This has nothing to do with systems in the game. If your guild is dysfunctional without you personally taking care of business then if you are not TCBin' then yes, your guild is screwed. But that's an internal issue with your officers that you need to address.
  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,539 Community Moderator

    First off, recruiting in Blacklake? seriously?
    Second, giving away stuff at that level? Without knowing anything about the guy? Impressive and admirable I suppose. But I'd rather get to know the guy before I empty my bank in his inventory. You might end up with more loyal people this way. Let them show they are serious about the game. how do you do that in Blacklake?
    Lastly, this is how rats transform into elephants... Ever considered changing your scripted message to "meet me at the starting campfire if you're interested so we can discuss it". Then talk all you want.. Problem solved.

    PS. No player starts a new game and expects to get recruited at those levels. They don't even know if they will keep playing, but I don't doubt that most will gladly take your free stuff. Might want to change to other maps if you wish to recruit more serious players, despite your good intentions.

    I used to go to Tower District and sometimes Blacklake and hand out things like enchants, white quality mounts, and gold to players that appear to be brand new to the game (after I do several things to confirm they aren't bots).
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
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  • samaka#2511 samaka Member Posts: 568 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    I used to go to Tower District and sometimes Blacklake and hand out things like enchants, white quality mounts, and gold to players that appear to be brand new to the game (after I do several things to confirm they aren't bots).

    Well, if the bots can talk back to you then I don't think anything Cryptic can do will stop them at this point! ;)

    @samaka#2511
  • samerikersameriker Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    First off, recruiting in Blacklake? seriously?
    Second, giving away stuff at that level? Without knowing anything about the guy? Impressive and admirable I suppose. But I'd rather get to know the guy before I empty my bank in his inventory. You might end up with more loyal people this way. Let them show they are serious about the game. how do you do that in Blacklake?
    Lastly, this is how rats transform into elephants... Ever considered changing your scripted message to "meet me at the starting campfire if you're interested so we can discuss it". Then talk all you want.. Problem solved.

    PS. No player starts a new game and expects to get recruited at those levels. They don't even know if they will keep playing, but I don't doubt that most will gladly take your free stuff. Might want to change to other maps if you wish to recruit more serious players, despite your good intentions.

    I used to go to Tower District and sometimes Blacklake and hand out things like enchants, white quality mounts, and gold to players that appear to be brand new to the game (after I do several things to confirm they aren't bots).
    Exactly how I manage it, I assist others in need and who else but new players coming in the front door. Also I like to meet and great so I know I am not tossing my stuff at a bot.

    @magenubbie I suppose I just have a more giving nature than you do. I don't understand your remark about "this is how rats transform into elephants"? But I would talk at the campfire, but these players are cut off to extreme ends, they can't mail, chat, or PM. Say command doesn't work for them.

    @pr3stigex exactly what do you mean by xbox msg them? This is the PC version area in case you got lost.

    @samaka I think the bots are winning. I plan to get online in a few hours to review the situation. I only know what my guild VP told me. She says the chatter spam bots are still very active in the game and the new accounts cannot communicate. Apparently even after adding them to the guild they cannot even access guild chat. If that is true, Cryptic need to rethink this whole strategy.
    Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion. ~ Mark Twain
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,416 Arc User
    I assume group invites and group chat still work? Communications problem solved.
  • pr3stigexpr3stigex Member Posts: 419 Arc User
    At the end of the day I believe the amount of people who are showering the tower district with gifts has got to be pretty small. A drop in the bucket if you will.
    Lash Urzoth 3.7k GWF, Pr3sTiGe 3k SW.
  • samerikersameriker Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited September 2016

    I assume group invites and group chat still work? Communications problem solved.

    Nope. We tried that, you cannot /channel_join or create a channel either. Problem not solved. Pretty sad they crippled new players to stop spambots when the solution is so simple. Place the chat filter in the hands of the user. Not everyone in the game is going to be offended by the same words that offend others. At present we have 2 options, filter on or off. I want to start my own filter and omit anyone using --- or ~~~ or \/\/. My free email service allows me to pick and choose, it should not be that difficult to tell a chat program what I want filtered.

    We normally give out companions, leveling equipment, and armors to players who we assist in these areas. It is up to them if or when they desire to join the guild. We are just here to assist people in playing the game. I mean to say, wouldn't you have liked to met someone on day one or two after doing a few quests who handed you a Dragon Bone weapon or just a common companion and a few tombs of XP? These items help them when others refuse or are otherwise unavailable.

    With the recent changes, Cryptic is stalling our help to new players. I really don't see much of a way around it. Many of my guild enjoy being extra helpful and I am sorry if you fail to understand our sense of ethics and fair play.
    Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion. ~ Mark Twain
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,546 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    While I'm not from a leveling guild, I was approached (forum message) by someone with only a low level main (level 15) and I thought, why not to invite. But I'm really not sure how to deal with the technical part. I tried to PM but I'm not sure if they can respond.

    Perhaps the game should have some text as part of the tutorial how to answer PMs "/r" & backspace and make sure those work if the person got PMed by someone.
  • tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    sameriker said:

    "Hey player X, I like the way you played there! Please send me a PM if you want to join my guild." We did a lot of recruitment straight out of Blacklake and Tower District. The changes effect many new players all the way to the Neverdeath Graveyard. If you don't complete the Plague Tower, you get to a mute all the way to level 70

    My guild is focused on newer players too, but for reasons unrelated to the Gateway, I focus my recruiting efforts on Neverdeath and beyond. Too many of the Blacklake/Tower District players were just checking out the game and didn't stay long.

    Having said that, I'm quite certain there are more effective ways to combat botting that impact the average, legit player far less.
    Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

    Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    sameriker said:

    I assume group invites and group chat still work? Communications problem solved.

    Nope. We tried that, you cannot /channel_join or create a channel either.
    That was a question about whether or not party chat works. Joining a party sounds like it still works, even though a lot of other stuff is disabled.

    I still agree that these measures are ridiculously offputting (as are ones taken before), because it treats all new players like criminal garbage, presupposing guilt before they've had a chance to do anything at all.

    The only spamming activity that's ever been particularly bothersome to me is the friend request trick, and that was only because of the incredible knack they had of catching you mid-boss-fight. Everything else? Not any different than the inundation of ads on buses and billboards and print media and etc. So I hope you are equally OUTRAGED in your day-to-day life, and if you're adept enough at mentally filtering advertising that it doesn't bother you to be alive in modern society... apply the same skillset to your MMO life.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • samerikersameriker Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    I got in a party in Blacklake the new people cannot chat in party chat either. We even tried to do hand signals with /emotes. Sorry but no luck.
    Worse yet a new person once invited to the guild cannot even use the /guild chat to talk to the members.

    Unless they changed it more recently since the 15th, we are not having much success communicating.
    Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion. ~ Mark Twain
  • kvetkvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    Maybe a third party option, something like Teamspeak or (better) Discord. It doesn't have to be voice, both have chat room features.
  • dionchidionchi Member Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    Just about all of the content below level 20 is solo friendly but if a new player below the required level wants to ask someone a question about the area they are in, let them approach another player face to face, (more or less) like is required for a trade request (as players cannot offer to trade with someone not in their immediate vicinity), then new players can send TELLS, INVITE TO PARTY or FRIEND request to another player.

    New players (and low level spammers) are still able to communicate with other players, but those other players must be in their immediate vicinity and willing to speak with them.

    Should someone befriend a new player, join their party or receiving a close proximity TELL from them that is spam, 'click' immediate "Ignore Player".

    Just a thought.
    DD~
  • samerikersameriker Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    I also played on Rift, they split the chat up by user level. I seem to recall it was 1-19, 20-39, etc.. but there was also custom, guild, trade, etc.. Basically most spammers were gone after you reached level 20. I haven't played Rift for years now, so I don't know if it remains the same. I could join the lower level chats being above them, but they could not join the higher level bracket.

    My good friend Simon, before he left this game, created a chat channel called rezone. It was his hope and desire players would join it and abandon the zone chat to avoid the spammers and bots. This channel still exists in the game. It is open to all, however only a dozen ever logged into it.

    I still say the best way to deal with chat is to place the filter in the hands of the players. If I can issue a custom filter, there would be no need to block individual users.
    Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion. ~ Mark Twain
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