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[PC] Sharpedge's "Almost Everything" CW Guide (Mod 9):

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  • myleafsmyleafs Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 40 Arc User
    I just finished reading your guide, the amount of work that went in to it must be staggering. I just wanted to say thanks so much for your time and expertise.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    myleafs said:

    I just finished reading your guide, the amount of work that went in to it must be staggering. I just wanted to say thanks so much for your time and expertise.

    Your welcome :)

    As a note this mod I may focus a lot more on expanding information with regards to the buff/debuff potential of CW rather than the damage potential of CW. This is because when experimenting with group setups for FBI I find dedicated CW support builds significantly increase the run speed in FBI.
    Post edited by thefabricant on
  • osea101#6331 osea101 Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    Excellent guide. Wish I had read up before I started playing.
  • hermione#7016 hermione Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Rising power +5 on companion or Bites ring?
  • nathan#8975 nathan Member Posts: 225 Arc User
    @thefabricant I found your youtube channel! Great videos! I just wanted to give some feedback and let you know that the caption and text things at the bottom are super helpful. Much appreciated
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    null
    Greetings. How can I have access to your cw guide? I request for it with my gmail account as you have it on google drive but it's not available yet.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    null

    Greetings. How can I have access to your cw guide? I request for it with my gmail account as you have it on google drive but it's not available yet.

    It doesn't work if you try to access it from a cellphone, only if you access it from a PC. For some reason, mobile devices attempt to access the document's edit function, rather than its published version, which results in it sending a request for access.
  • khashirkhashir Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    Heya, I'm a bit confused by FPT: in the guide, you say "The third strike of chilling cloud grants you 5% bonus damage for every target (up to 3) it hits for 20 seconds." On the other hand, the description says that the bonus stacks up to 3 times. What's the max bonus, 15% or 45%?

    I lean towards the former (because 45% is outrageous), but I find the description somewhat ambiguous as to whether the stack limit tracks total number of targets (up to 3), or total number of stacks (regardless of # of targets hit). However, while 45% is outrageous, CC's aoe is not that big, and reliably/sustainably firing it 3 times + hitting many targets seems tough to do anyway (given movement, Spell Twisting, optimal rotations).

    Thanks!
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    khashir said:

    Heya, I'm a bit confused by FPT: in the guide, you say "The third strike of chilling cloud grants you 5% bonus damage for every target (up to 3) it hits for 20 seconds." On the other hand, the description says that the bonus stacks up to 3 times. What's the max bonus, 15% or 45%?

    I lean towards the former (because 45% is outrageous), but I find the description somewhat ambiguous as to whether the stack limit tracks total number of targets (up to 3), or total number of stacks (regardless of # of targets hit). However, while 45% is outrageous, CC's aoe is not that big, and reliably/sustainably firing it 3 times + hitting many targets seems tough to do anyway (given movement, Spell Twisting, optimal rotations).

    Thanks!

    Its 15%, I was explaining the stacking mechanic. It only stacks if the third hit of chilling cloud hits multiple targets and it gives you 1 stack per target hit, up to a total of 3 stacks for 3 targets hit.
  • khashirkhashir Member Posts: 44 Arc User

    khashir said:

    Heya, I'm a bit confused by FPT: in the guide, you say "The third strike of chilling cloud grants you 5% bonus damage for every target (up to 3) it hits for 20 seconds." On the other hand, the description says that the bonus stacks up to 3 times. What's the max bonus, 15% or 45%?

    I lean towards the former (because 45% is outrageous), but I find the description somewhat ambiguous as to whether the stack limit tracks total number of targets (up to 3), or total number of stacks (regardless of # of targets hit). However, while 45% is outrageous, CC's aoe is not that big, and reliably/sustainably firing it 3 times + hitting many targets seems tough to do anyway (given movement, Spell Twisting, optimal rotations).

    Thanks!

    Its 15%, I was explaining the stacking mechanic. It only stacks if the third hit of chilling cloud hits multiple targets and it gives you 1 stack per target hit, up to a total of 3 stacks for 3 targets hit.
    Sweet, thanks for that =)!
  • khashirkhashir Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    Would it be possible to run some numbers for when Prestidigitation 'breaks even' with Learned Spellcaster for damage? I'm not entirely sure how the feat works (otherwise I would've run some numbers): does it boost every single stat rating, from all sources (items, enchantments, boons, etc.)?

    The general thought is to calculate how much you would need of the offensive stats before 3 points in Prestidigitation yield more DPS than 3 points of LS. My current guesstimate is about 40,000 points of power, crit, ARP combined (40,000 * 3% = 1,200/400 = 3%). However, that doesn't take into account ARP cap, Crit Sev, Recovery, AP Gain, or CA Bonus (not to mention the party-wide effect).

    A related question would be: at how many points of defensive stats would Prestidigitation compare with Toughness (either comparing HP straight up or using your EHP formulas)? Not because one would drop Toughness, but because it would help get a better idea of the value of the feat: essentially, Prestidigitation could be doing the work of two feats, after a certain threshold. So, rather than wait until having a BiS set, it would be valuable/interesting to know when to switch over.

    Anyway, not sure how easy/feasible this is, just thought it could be a good addition.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    khashir said:

    Would it be possible to run some numbers for when Prestidigitation 'breaks even' with Learned Spellcaster for damage? I'm not entirely sure how the feat works (otherwise I would've run some numbers): does it boost every single stat rating, from all sources (items, enchantments, boons, etc.)?

    The general thought is to calculate how much you would need of the offensive stats before 3 points in Prestidigitation yield more DPS than 3 points of LS. My current guesstimate is about 40,000 points of power, crit, ARP combined (40,000 * 3% = 1,200/400 = 3%). However, that doesn't take into account ARP cap, Crit Sev, Recovery, AP Gain, or CA Bonus (not to mention the party-wide effect).

    A related question would be: at how many points of defensive stats would Prestidigitation compare with Toughness (either comparing HP straight up or using your EHP formulas)? Not because one would drop Toughness, but because it would help get a better idea of the value of the feat: essentially, Prestidigitation could be doing the work of two feats, after a certain threshold. So, rather than wait until having a BiS set, it would be valuable/interesting to know when to switch over.

    Anyway, not sure how easy/feasible this is, just thought it could be a good addition.

    I was unsatisfied with my explanation of prestidigitation (which pretty much did not exist) so I rewrote it and explained its mechanics properly, here is how it works:



    Prestidigitation: It has potential uses for endgame BiS builds where you are trying to increase your party’s dps through the bonus, outside of those it is no good. The way it works is as follows:

    Users Unbuffed stats*1.01^Prestidigitation rank

    For example, if you have 1k power and 2k crit without the feat, your stats will look as follows:


    Base Stats:
    1000 Power
    2000 Crit

    Rank 1:
    1010 Power
    2020 Crit

    Rank 2:
    1020.1 Power
    2040.2 Crit

    Rank 3:
    1030.301 Power
    2060.602 Crit

    Take note, the game does round stats, so the crit at rank 3 prestidigitation in the example above will round to 2061 Crit, instead of 2060. Also, take note this only buffs power, crit, arp, recovery, defense, deflect and movement speed. It does not buff any of the others.

    It is also important to note that Prestidigitation does buff your companion and the companion does transfer the buffed power through bonding stones. It does not buff augments however. Bonuses from mechanics like Annointed Army or Weapons of Light are not buffed by prestidigitation.

    Finally, for the purposes of boosting your own DPS, prestidigitation will never be better than learned spellcaster. This is because when you compare the bonus from prestidigitation to the bonus from learned spellcaster, you have to compare to how much stats you had before prestidigitation, not to base stat values. So assuming you have a toon with 80k power, 32k crit and 6k arp, the stat gains from 3 ranks of prestidigitation to yourself would be as follows:

    80000*1.01^3 = 82424.08 Power
    32000*1.01^3=32969.632 Crit
    6000*1.01^3=6181.806 Arp

    This means you are gaining 2.4k power, 969 crit and 100 arp. Now, this does not mean a 2.4/400 = 6% dps boost from power, since remember, you have to compare to your power without prestidigitation, not your base power. In fact, the DPS boost from power is as follows:

    (82424.08/40000+1)/3-1=1.02-1 = 2% dps increase. So, with maxed out stats, the gains from power have increased your DPS by 2%. The absolute most you will ever get out of this feat as a dps boost is a 3.03% personal dps boost and to attain that you need amounts of power far outside the range of what is possible to stack.

  • khashirkhashir Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited September 2016

    khashir said:

    Would it be possible to run some numbers for when Prestidigitation 'breaks even' with Learned Spellcaster for damage? I'm not entirely sure how the feat works (otherwise I would've run some numbers): does it boost every single stat rating, from all sources (items, enchantments, boons, etc.)?

    The general thought is to calculate how much you would need of the offensive stats before 3 points in Prestidigitation yield more DPS than 3 points of LS. My current guesstimate is about 40,000 points of power, crit, ARP combined (40,000 * 3% = 1,200/400 = 3%). However, that doesn't take into account ARP cap, Crit Sev, Recovery, AP Gain, or CA Bonus (not to mention the party-wide effect).

    A related question would be: at how many points of defensive stats would Prestidigitation compare with Toughness (either comparing HP straight up or using your EHP formulas)? Not because one would drop Toughness, but because it would help get a better idea of the value of the feat: essentially, Prestidigitation could be doing the work of two feats, after a certain threshold. So, rather than wait until having a BiS set, it would be valuable/interesting to know when to switch over.

    Anyway, not sure how easy/feasible this is, just thought it could be a good addition.

    I was unsatisfied with my explanation of prestidigitation (which pretty much did not exist) so I rewrote it and explained its mechanics properly, here is how it works:



    It is also important to note that Prestidigitation does buff your companion and the companion does transfer the buffed power through bonding stones. It does not buff augments however. Bonuses from mechanics like Annointed Army or Weapons of Light are not buffed by prestidigitation.

    Finally, for the purposes of boosting your own DPS, prestidigitation will never be better than learned spellcaster. This is because when you compare the bonus from prestidigitation to the bonus from learned spellcaster, you have to compare to how much stats you had before prestidigitation, not to base stat values. So assuming you have a toon with 80k power, 32k crit and 6k arp, the stat gains from 3 ranks of prestidigitation to yourself would be as follows:

    80000*1.01^3 = 82424.08 Power
    32000*1.01^3=32969.632 Crit
    6000*1.01^3=6181.806 Arp

    This means you are gaining 2.4k power, 969 crit and 100 arp. Now, this does not mean a 2.4/400 = 6% dps boost from power, since remember, you have to compare to your power without prestidigitation, not your base power. In fact, the DPS boost from power is as follows:

    (82424.08/40000+1)/3-1=1.02-1 = 2% dps increase. So, with maxed out stats, the gains from power have increased your DPS by 2%. The absolute most you will ever get out of this feat as a dps boost is a 3.03% personal dps boost and to attain that you need amounts of power far outside the range of what is possible to stack.

    Whoa, awesome! I missed that addition to the guide =).

    So, if I understood correctly, you're also getting ~1-2% DPS boost from crit, no (for a total of 3-4% boost)? Which should be extra valuable for Storm Spell/crit-based build. Am I missing something?
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    Your sheet crit from the base stat would put you at 80% chance alone. Seems to me that with other factors taken into account, you're not gaining anything from the increase to crit because you'd be at 100% already.
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  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    khashir said:

    khashir said:

    Would it be possible to run some numbers for when Prestidigitation 'breaks even' with Learned Spellcaster for damage? I'm not entirely sure how the feat works (otherwise I would've run some numbers): does it boost every single stat rating, from all sources (items, enchantments, boons, etc.)?

    The general thought is to calculate how much you would need of the offensive stats before 3 points in Prestidigitation yield more DPS than 3 points of LS. My current guesstimate is about 40,000 points of power, crit, ARP combined (40,000 * 3% = 1,200/400 = 3%). However, that doesn't take into account ARP cap, Crit Sev, Recovery, AP Gain, or CA Bonus (not to mention the party-wide effect).

    A related question would be: at how many points of defensive stats would Prestidigitation compare with Toughness (either comparing HP straight up or using your EHP formulas)? Not because one would drop Toughness, but because it would help get a better idea of the value of the feat: essentially, Prestidigitation could be doing the work of two feats, after a certain threshold. So, rather than wait until having a BiS set, it would be valuable/interesting to know when to switch over.

    Anyway, not sure how easy/feasible this is, just thought it could be a good addition.

    I was unsatisfied with my explanation of prestidigitation (which pretty much did not exist) so I rewrote it and explained its mechanics properly, here is how it works:



    It is also important to note that Prestidigitation does buff your companion and the companion does transfer the buffed power through bonding stones. It does not buff augments however. Bonuses from mechanics like Annointed Army or Weapons of Light are not buffed by prestidigitation.

    Finally, for the purposes of boosting your own DPS, prestidigitation will never be better than learned spellcaster. This is because when you compare the bonus from prestidigitation to the bonus from learned spellcaster, you have to compare to how much stats you had before prestidigitation, not to base stat values. So assuming you have a toon with 80k power, 32k crit and 6k arp, the stat gains from 3 ranks of prestidigitation to yourself would be as follows:

    80000*1.01^3 = 82424.08 Power
    32000*1.01^3=32969.632 Crit
    6000*1.01^3=6181.806 Arp

    This means you are gaining 2.4k power, 969 crit and 100 arp. Now, this does not mean a 2.4/400 = 6% dps boost from power, since remember, you have to compare to your power without prestidigitation, not your base power. In fact, the DPS boost from power is as follows:

    (82424.08/40000+1)/3-1=1.02-1 = 2% dps increase. So, with maxed out stats, the gains from power have increased your DPS by 2%. The absolute most you will ever get out of this feat as a dps boost is a 3.03% personal dps boost and to attain that you need amounts of power far outside the range of what is possible to stack.

    Whoa, awesome! I missed that addition to the guide =).

    So, if I understood correctly, you're also getting ~1-2% DPS boost from crit, no (for a total of 3-4% boost)? Which should be extra valuable for Storm Spell/crit-based build. Am I missing something?
    What @beckylunatic said, by the time you get any returns from the crit stat, you are at 100% crit chance already and so you don't get any returns. It is a catch 22 situation.
  • khashirkhashir Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    Awesome, thanks @beckylunatic and @thefabricant —really appreciate it =).
    Post edited by khashir on
  • jackharper#1224 jackharper Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    Hi in one guide found this inf. It's still buged or not?
    "At the moment, it seems as though Frozen Power Transfer is bugged, and cannot stack."
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,363 Arc User
    edited September 2016

    Hi in one guide found this inf. It's still buged or not?
    "At the moment, it seems as though Frozen Power Transfer is bugged, and cannot stack."

    CHilling cloud is aoe power. TO get the three stacks the third strike of the chilling cloud need to hit three enemies at the same time.
    WHEN it can fail : IF are three monsters but the two monsters are not near to the monster that gets the third strike in that case you will get 1 stack.

  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    Hi in one guide found this inf. It's still buged or not?
    "At the moment, it seems as though Frozen Power Transfer is bugged, and cannot stack."

    It is not bugged, but it is still useless.
  • jackharper#1224 jackharper Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    Ok, i dont play CW, but im looking new char and maybe start play controler.
    So which paragon is better Frozen power transfer or Elemental reinforcement. And this build is still current?
    http://mmominds.com/2016/03/02/thaumaturges-time-to-shine-a-complete-guide/
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    Ok, i dont play CW, but im looking new char and maybe start play controler.
    So which paragon is better Frozen power transfer or Elemental reinforcement. And this build is still current?
    http://mmominds.com/2016/03/02/thaumaturges-time-to-shine-a-complete-guide/

    That build is still somewhat current, although the list of boons is not up to date with the current mod and the gear/companions section have not been updated either. As a side note, you can find my build in the section near the end. I am also mentioned in the acknowledgements.
  • masterogamasteroga Member Posts: 352 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    Accidental post....don't see a delete option
  • solbergxsolbergx Member Posts: 654 Arc User
    ok guys i don't know if this has been answered already so here it goes:
    I am about to switch from icy veins to spell twisting and i see you recommend spell twisting but you don't have "fight on" for SS Renegade on your heroic feats.
    Is there a reason for this?
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    solbergx said:

    ok guys i don't know if this has been answered already so here it goes:
    I am about to switch from icy veins to spell twisting and i see you recommend spell twisting but you don't have "fight on" for SS Renegade on your heroic feats.
    Is there a reason for this?

    Fight on works differently to spell twisting. Spell twisting actually reduces cooldowns by a percentage, where as fight on adds to recharge speed increase. This makes fight on bad and spell twisting good.
  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    Sharpe, what is your opinion on droping icy veins for abyss at high level BIS type toons?
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    niadan said:

    Sharpe, what is your opinion on droping icy veins for abyss at high level BIS type toons?

    It is an option. I know a few CWs who do that, I prefer icy veins as it is pretty much the only control CW has at this point.
  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    Im asking more from a group situation maximizing dps. If you were not worried about control...which would be higher dps?
  • craoluscraolus Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    niadan said:

    Im asking more from a group situation maximizing dps. If you were not worried about control...which would be higher dps?

    I did this for a while. I think it works great on longer fights and things like stronghold dragons that are Chill immune. For the other 95% of the content though, I'd rather have the chill stacks. Just recently switched back to Icy Veins and haven't looked back.
  • masterogamasteroga Member Posts: 352 Arc User
    Anyone explain how an owlbear can be up to a 20% boost for low crit thaum?
  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    Pretty straightforward. Cws hit multiple times very fast. If those hits do not crit...owlbear bonus damage applies. Just realize that it is not the highest damage build for CW. Read the guide that this thread is about.
This discussion has been closed.