CW isn't as terrible as you make it out to be. Like seriously, that gear I used there is terrible (costs 5k AD for all of it) and any new player could get better gear quickly, at which point you could ditch shield. The mount power was irrelevant as it only activates on artifact use and well, I had no artifacts or shirt+pants in that video. Also, it was done on preview so no VIP and a lot of lag. I went for a 3 man HE because its harder than redcaps. I could demonstrate WoD or IWD as well if you like.
As for which class is the most fun? Its purely subjective. I enjoy CW the most, its my own choice based on my own preferences but there is probably a valid reason for you to enjoy any class in the game. There is no, "most fun class" but there is, "which class you enjoy the most." I personally find GWF boring, but that is just me, I know other people who find the class to be fun. The class you find fun will depend on what you looking for in a class.
I'm in the process of grabbing the video from youtube with my downloader, but you've allready seemed to miss a thing. The clip i provided starts with a redcap pack, but i just left that in because it was easier cutting point, the main part is the bit vs the fomorian warrior, which is an example of a mob i could easily find that if things don't go perfectly gives me a rough fight. The clip i provided shows that, there isn't really any arguing with it. Give me 10 minutes to grab the video and another 10 or so to watch it and i'll comment on it.
Depending of your connection speed, LAG issues. With low lag, CW is best choice, but with LAG, CW is really bad (you jump forward to dodge AOE and you are teleported back. You case some encounter, you see animation twice, etc.
Thats the thing i don't have a lot of lag, bearing in mind i'm in the EU so i have the usual ping of an EU based player playing on US based servers. But that shouldn't count as a lot as a good chunk of the playerbase will have it or worse.
No offense, but you played it really badly in that video, not dodging reds at all etc. A good portion of a GWFs ability to tank comes from its tab mechanic, unstoppable. A good portion of a CWs ability to sustain comes from its shift mechanic, teleport. The class is designed with using teleport in mind, like GWF is designed with using tab in mind. Standing in red like you did in that video was your own fault and you should be (and were) punished for it. As for lag, I guarantee you I play with worse. I live in South Africa and get ~500 ping on a good day to the cryptic servers.
Thats excactly the reason why we got so many bad GWFs ingame. If you think you can play a GWF like that you will allways be a decent but never be a real good player.
That gap is so small (unless you are talking about pvp).
And sry....but which class changes his approach/set of spell all the time? Did i miss something? Where is the difference to other classes? Can you enlight me plz?
All the other classes have an optimal solo, group, aoe and single target set of skills. HR can get away with using the same for most things. But GWFs are the most static one of the rest. GWFs is the most forgiving out of the lot (and less demanding than a HR).
This can be seen as a negative too, since it requires a bit of setup before you do something different, but using a wide array of useful encounters/dailies/at-wills makes it more interesting over all.
Okay watched the video. How you think that does anything but prove my point i don;t know. I get the feeling you just don;t play other classes.
here's my short list of things that scream "this is a terrible class to play from a fun vs pain poV".
1. Your dodging all over the place just to keep the melee archons from hitting you. Whilst i have to dodge some splat types on my other characters, (and observing others play the other classes i don't have at a high level shows them doing the same), i don't need to dodge basic melee attacks just to not get killed, and watching other classes i don't have shows the same thing for them. In fact the other ranged classes often don;t even have most of their enemies still alive by the time they start taking melee hits.
2. You Spend most of your time waaay down on hitpoints, some classes being below 50% isn't a huge deal because they have good defences or get out of jail skills or feat or other tricks or whatever.The CW doesn't have that. Being below 50% is firmly in the "Oh no i'm in troubled" range, and you spend a moderate chunk below 25% which again for a class like a CW, (and to be fair any other class i've played), is in the "Oh my god i'm gonna die!" range, albeit again the lack of tricks on a CW makes this much more negetive than with another class. Again my experience playing with or watching other classes play is that they can generally avoid this kind of problem intake through a combination of burning targets down before they do much damage, raw toughness, and various tricks to let them hover on low health at less risk.
3. You burn a lot of healing potions. Whilst being able to do a 3 man SR heroic without needing a pot is unlikely for any non-tank class the amount you go through is very noticeable. And this is definitely one of my yardsticks on the painful vs pleasant scale, if i find myself burning pots reguarly enough that i don't get enough replacements via drops to mostly or completely negate needing to buy them i tend to consider the class towards the pain end of the spectrum.
4. Not to criticise your gear choices because i appreciate what you did and that you probably used what you could cheaply afford at a low cost and had lying around, so you're not trying to manipulate anything here. But whilst your gear score is quite low, enough of mine comes from things like utility enchants, defence enchants, artifacts, and the pants and shirt, (of which only my offence enchants seriously change my stats when stripped), that it's not as bad as it appears by comparison. (For reference i can get my gear score down to 1.35k without majorly efects any of my stats, if you want screenshots, ask).
Additionally whilst this is again i'm sure more a consequence of how stat distribution on AH gear works than a deliberate attempt to manipulate things i'm sure, your gear has a set of stat priorities that is biased very differently from the sort of gear leveling e.t.c. provides you with. You seemed to be prioritizing in order;. Arp, Hp, Power, whilst leveling gear tends to run; HP, Power, Crit, Recov, Def Stats, Arp. Mathing it out my significantly higher power and crit when you factor in ability scores only gives me about a 10% total average damage boost, whilst you slightly higher total Arp, (you about 500 ahead of me despite my 5 rank 7 darks), probably in the real world wipes out that edge, so your about as effective overall despite a 700 GS difference between us. And yeah sure you got that for 5k AD ff the AH, but again, you don;t need to do this on any other class, you shouldn't need to go out and get perfectly optimized gear just to go do normal on GS and character level content, the gear provided by the content or it's preceding section should be enough.
Now don;t get me wrong that was still impressive overall like i said, but to me that was a perfect example of every problem i have with the class. It's the only class i've played or observed, (when there's no obvious other issues), where getting below half health and moving around constantly to avoid basic melee auto-at-wills and burning pot's, and having BiS for GS level gear is required just to do basic on level content.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
Okay watched the video. How you think that does anything but prove my point i don;t know. I get the feeling you just don;t play other classes.
here's my short list of things that scream "this is a terrible class to play from a fun vs pain poV".
1. Your dodging all over the place just to keep the melee archons from hitting you. Whilst i have to dodge some splat types on my other characters, (and observing others play the other classes i don't have at a high level shows them doing the same), i don't need to dodge basic melee attacks just to not get killed, and watching other classes i don't have shows the same thing for them. In fact the other ranged classes often don;t even have most of their enemies still alive by the time they start taking melee hits.
2. You Spend most of your time waaay down on hitpoints, some classes being below 50% isn't a huge deal because they have good defences or get out of jail skills or feat or other tricks or whatever.The CW doesn't have that. Being below 50% is firmly in the "Oh no i'm in troubled" range, and you spend a moderate chunk below 25% which again for a class like a CW, (and to be fair any other class i've played), is in the "Oh my god i'm gonna die!" range, albeit again the lack of tricks on a CW makes this much more negetive than with another class. Again my experience playing with or watching other classes play is that they can generally avoid this kind of problem intake through a combination of burning targets down before they do much damage, raw toughness, and various tricks to let them hover on low health at less risk.
3. You burn a lot of healing potions. Whilst being able to do a 3 man SR heroic without needing a pot is unlikely for any non-tank class the amount you go through is very noticeable. And this is definitely one of my yardsticks on the painful vs pleasant scale, if i find myself burning pots reguarly enough that i don't get enough replacements via drops to mostly or completely negate needing to buy them i tend to consider the class towards the pain end of the spectrum.
4. Not to criticise your gear choices because i appreciate what you did and that you probably used what you could cheaply afford at a low cost and had lying around, so you're not trying to manipulate anything here. But whilst your gear score is quite low, enough of mine comes from things like utility enchants, defence enchants, artifacts, and the pants and shirt, (of which only my offence enchants seriously change my stats when stripped), that it's not as bad as it appears by comparison. (For reference i can get my gear score down to 1.35k without majorly efects any of my stats, if you want screenshots, ask).
Additionally whilst this is again i'm sure more a consequence of how stat distribution on AH gear works than a deliberate attempt to manipulate things i'm sure, your gear has a set of stat priorities that is biased very differently from the sort of gear leveling e.t.c. provides you with. You seemed to be prioritizing in order;. Arp, Hp, Power, whilst leveling gear tends to run; HP, Power, Crit, Recov, Def Stats, Arp. Mathing it out my significantly higher power and crit when you factor in ability scores only gives me about a 10% total average damage boost, whilst you slightly higher total Arp, (you about 500 ahead of me despite my 5 rank 7 darks), probably in the real world wipes out that edge, so your about as effective overall despite a 700 GS difference between us. And yeah sure you got that for 5k AD ff the AH, but again, you don;t need to do this on any other class, you shouldn't need to go out and get perfectly optimized gear just to go do normal on GS and character level content, the gear provided by the content or it's preceding section should be enough.
Now don;t get me wrong that was still impressive overall like i said, but to me that was a perfect example of every problem i have with the class. It's the only class i've played or observed, (when there's no obvious other issues), where getting below half health and moving around constantly to avoid basic melee auto-at-wills and burning pot's, and having BiS for GS level gear is required just to do basic on level content.
Dude, I picked a HE, I could go to sharandar and handle things perfectly fine there, the only reason I picked a HE is because it demonstrates how if the class can do fine on a HE, it can do fine elsewhere. Was I under 50% HP most of the fight? Yes! I had significant lag as I was on preview and I was in a HE, in addition to pushing the characters gear to an extremely unlikely set of stuff that you can get better gear than in a heartbeat. And yes, I did pick gear with very specific priorities, but tbh, if I was levelling any alt, I would go straight to the AH and do exactly the same thing regardless of class, except I would dump 100k AD into stuff not 5k. I did 5k AD into stuff because that is 1 dungeon at level 70 AD gains assuming you do the levelling dungeons and so by doing a single run you should have enough AD for all that stuff.
You make the argument that CW is not fun at low ilvls and yes, my main CW is BiS (the 1 in that picture). However you should remember at 1 stage, my wizard was not BiS. I have not magically always been BiS and I have always enjoyed the CW playstyle, so just because YOU don't enjoy it doesn't mean that nobody does.
Yes, it does not have as easy a time soloing as GWF or Righteous DC, does that mean its not fun? No it does not.
As for me not playing other classes? I have 1 of each at 70 and I used to run OP as a main for a while.
Okay watched the video. How you think that does anything but prove my point i don;t know. I get the feeling you just don;t play other classes.
here's my short list of things that scream "this is a terrible class to play from a fun vs pain poV".
1. Your dodging all over the place just to keep the melee archons from hitting you. Whilst i have to dodge some splat types on my other characters, (and observing others play the other classes i don't have at a high level shows them doing the same), i don't need to dodge basic melee attacks just to not get killed, and watching other classes i don't have shows the same thing for them. In fact the other ranged classes often don;t even have most of their enemies still alive by the time they start taking melee hits.
2. You Spend most of your time waaay down on hitpoints, some classes being below 50% isn't a huge deal because they have good defences or get out of jail skills or feat or other tricks or whatever.The CW doesn't have that. Being below 50% is firmly in the "Oh no i'm in troubled" range, and you spend a moderate chunk below 25% which again for a class like a CW, (and to be fair any other class i've played), is in the "Oh my god i'm gonna die!" range, albeit again the lack of tricks on a CW makes this much more negetive than with another class. Again my experience playing with or watching other classes play is that they can generally avoid this kind of problem intake through a combination of burning targets down before they do much damage, raw toughness, and various tricks to let them hover on low health at less risk.
3. You burn a lot of healing potions. Whilst being able to do a 3 man SR heroic without needing a pot is unlikely for any non-tank class the amount you go through is very noticeable. And this is definitely one of my yardsticks on the painful vs pleasant scale, if i find myself burning pots reguarly enough that i don't get enough replacements via drops to mostly or completely negate needing to buy them i tend to consider the class towards the pain end of the spectrum.
4. Not to criticise your gear choices because i appreciate what you did and that you probably used what you could cheaply afford at a low cost and had lying around, so you're not trying to manipulate anything here. But whilst your gear score is quite low, enough of mine comes from things like utility enchants, defence enchants, artifacts, and the pants and shirt, (of which only my offence enchants seriously change my stats when stripped), that it's not as bad as it appears by comparison. (For reference i can get my gear score down to 1.35k without majorly efects any of my stats, if you want screenshots, ask).
Additionally whilst this is again i'm sure more a consequence of how stat distribution on AH gear works than a deliberate attempt to manipulate things i'm sure, your gear has a set of stat priorities that is biased very differently from the sort of gear leveling e.t.c. provides you with. You seemed to be prioritizing in order;. Arp, Hp, Power, whilst leveling gear tends to run; HP, Power, Crit, Recov, Def Stats, Arp. Mathing it out my significantly higher power and crit when you factor in ability scores only gives me about a 10% total average damage boost, whilst you slightly higher total Arp, (you about 500 ahead of me despite my 5 rank 7 darks), probably in the real world wipes out that edge, so your about as effective overall despite a 700 GS difference between us. And yeah sure you got that for 5k AD ff the AH, but again, you don;t need to do this on any other class, you shouldn't need to go out and get perfectly optimized gear just to go do normal on GS and character level content, the gear provided by the content or it's preceding section should be enough.
Now don;t get me wrong that was still impressive overall like i said, but to me that was a perfect example of every problem i have with the class. It's the only class i've played or observed, (when there's no obvious other issues), where getting below half health and moving around constantly to avoid basic melee auto-at-wills and burning pot's, and having BiS for GS level gear is required just to do basic on level content.
OK where do I start... First, please stop pontificating when you obviously don't know very well how the class works. Maybe you think you do but your video proved the opposite.
Where are your procs? And why did you chose mof as a lowbie cw trying to farm boons? The CW's damage is all about procs. I haven't seen any storm spell proc on that video, only fire stuff that shouldn't be used unless you know what you're doing.
Where is your crit chance? I hav barely seen any crit. If your crit chance is too low then why aren't you using eye of the storm instead of chilling presence? (again why are you fire?)
Why are you staying in red with a character that barely does any damage in that state, and why didn't you get some cheap gear with armpen and lifesteal on the auction house?
I can understand that people don't like the CW because it's very complicated to play - far more than it used to. On some aspects, it takes a fair amount of understanding of the game mechanics, even though there are far more complex classes. But it's not bad in any way.
--
To the OP: I have started to play a ranger lately, and it is a very satisfying experience. The class doesn't seem very hard to play, yet it's fun, and it has access to a ton of spells due to the class mechanic. I'm not sure I can recommend you a CW. I used to level up CW mules for farming, and the first 30 levels are not very fun (until you have access to icy terrain) and the first ten levels are a torture. The first CW spells have been nerfed so many times it's just not fun to level up at all until late in the game, so keep that in mind.
The CW is extremely fun to play... At lvl 70, with a solid backlog of game experience and a good understanding of all the complexities of the game mechanics. I wouldn't recommend it as a first dps character anymore. Over the past few years its dps moved from spells (= easy mode) to convoluted combination of obscure stuff (= hard mode) that leaves little room to mess up. But there are so many ways to mess things up that it's not even funny.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Dps gf...(shakes head)...soon somebody will ask for tanking CWs and healing GWFs...
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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valynstarfireMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 100Arc User
I realize I will get a lot of hate and WTF is he thinking from this.
As long as you don't mind NOT (ever) being top on the DPS charts, the most fun "dps" class I have had fun with is the HR Combat tree. (Close your gaping mouth, it doesn't make for a good look).
With my Combat HR, I wade in with little regard for my own life. Why? Because I heal like a madman. I am by no means BIS, and only a 2.6 IL HR. I use an augment stone (GASP). I have stacked up lots of lifesteal (I am at 20-22% chance without having the lifesteal SH boon). For offense, my enchants go towards Crit Chance due to the fact that I DID take the feat that lowers my Crit Chance in order to give me Crit Severity. As long as I do not get 1-shotted, which CAN happen if I am unlucky, no matter how far down my hp goes, I can quickly get it back up with an encounter or 2. I am currently trying to add in as much Combat Advantage in to get more extra damage in.
It isn't going to be the best, I know, but I do have lots of fun with it. Give it a try if you like, but as I said, you will never (ok well *I* will never) be the top on the dps chart, but you can hold your own.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
I realize I will get a lot of hate and WTF is he thinking from this.
As long as you don't mind NOT (ever) being top on the DPS charts, the most fun "dps" class I have had fun with is the HR Combat tree. (Close your gaping mouth, it doesn't make for a good look).
With my Combat HR, I wade in with little regard for my own life. Why? Because I heal like a madman. I am by no means BIS, and only a 2.6 IL HR. I use an augment stone (GASP). I have stacked up lots of lifesteal (I am at 20-22% chance without having the lifesteal SH boon). For offense, my enchants go towards Crit Chance due to the fact that I DID take the feat that lowers my Crit Chance in order to give me Crit Severity. As long as I do not get 1-shotted, which CAN happen if I am unlucky, no matter how far down my hp goes, I can quickly get it back up with an encounter or 2. I am currently trying to add in as much Combat Advantage in to get more extra damage in.
It isn't going to be the best, I know, but I do have lots of fun with it. Give it a try if you like, but as I said, you will never (ok well *I* will never) be the top on the dps chart, but you can hold your own.
Actually Combat HR is a lot of fun definitely.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
think the experience varies a lot during levelling and added encounters and skills. my first steps with my trapper were like: omg, hate it, so lame. with further progress, it turned into my most fun to play class. so its no bad idea to ask people about their opinion, you just have to be aware that tastes differ (obviously a lot lol)
Thats excactly the reason why we got so many bad GWFs ingame. If you think you can play a GWF like that you will allways be a decent but never be a real good player.
That gap is so small (unless you are talking about pvp).
And sry....but which class changes his approach/set of spell all the time? Did i miss something? Where is the difference to other classes? Can you enlight me plz?
All the other classes have an optimal solo, group, aoe and single target set of skills. HR can get away with using the same for most things. But GWFs are the most static one of the rest. GWFs is the most forgiving out of the lot (and less demanding than a HR).
This can be seen as a negative too, since it requires a bit of setup before you do something different, but using a wide array of useful encounters/dailies/at-wills makes it more interesting over all.
Maybe the GWFs you group with are all good players, but there is a world between great GWFs and the rest.
I was grouped with similar geared GWFs and did up to 10x their dmg and I was grouped with similar geared GWFs who did double my dmg. My GWF is an alt with good gear, but just an alt. There are some ppl playing GWF as main with great skill and many playing it as a head on the keyboard class, bc he is very forgiving with decent gear.
NEVER ( and i mean NEVER) ask in a forum whats the best/funniest class...you see what happens ^^. Everyone is defending his own class and all the othe classes are bad/skilless/dumb. Its so funny sometimes
Lol this sums up everything you have been saying in this thread. Except I don't defend any class, because I think they are all good and i have played them all (apart from OP) at end-game. GWF is good for casual gamers and the most effective, CWs is good for those who want to be challenged. HRs are good for those who want alot of abilities to use.
I wouldn't comment on SW since the changes, but that class was clunky as hell but the only real range dps we have.
Warlock is most fun class atm, since we are the best controller also versus endboss in PVE dungeons since rework
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Arms of Hadar and recovery FTW!
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
Cw ss better choice to level up(renegade or thaum, ur choice, i recommend thaum for more outgoingd damge boost, renegade will later limit critical strike and arm pen stat values), tab: conduit of ice, steal time, icy terrain, desintegrate/sudden storn, oppressive force and ice knife as daily powers, and if u have a good sh ls boon mass healing coming towards u, im loving mine
I'm partial to my HR atm. Trapper build gives nice fast-pace action and takes even faster reactions. Very versatile too, it's got skills to fit just about any situation. I can solo just fine, in parties I'm still topping out damage charts. Haven't messed with PvP too much recently but what I've seen is encouraging, just gotta get some decent gear put together to really make it shine. I've never really been one for classes that just stand in one place and rain death, so the mobility and versatility of the HR plays to my strengths and keeps my attention.
On the down side we're not the fastest class as far as getting from here to there and we don't have as much burst as a TR or GWF, but once we're in the thick of it and start dropping growths there's plenty of blood to water our roots
Thats why i said the gap beetween the gwfs isnt only a little gap, like grimah said. Good GWFs need a good rotation/skill. Its still ---> Skill > gear. Thx ^^
Ok seems the forum is really bad at handling new posts and didn;t display some posts between my last two, yay forum, also some more since then.
Fortunately i think i can largely address Fabricants 2 posts, (and everyone else's too), with one smallish one.
Ok now your really are showing how long it's been since you played down at this level. A GWF in similar GS to my CW doesn't need unstoppable to facetank through this stuff without most of the time staying above half health, i went and did my DR dailies on my GWF and i fought a number of fights where i just used my encounters because by the time my unstoppable bar filled everything was near enough dead that it would have been a waste to use it. And if it wasn't a crowd control effect i didn't worry about the splats. Because splats are not punishing in solo play in most cases on my GWF even without unstoppable and a fair bit less raw health.
This is what you seem to be missing, this is solo content, the gear that content provides you with should be more than adequate for the content being done, and there should be enough slippage in there to account for miss plays, plain bad players, and the occasional touch of laziness or inattention due to behind the keyboard issues or RNG going against you with enemy crits, (or your own or w/e). You shouldn't have to play to within an inch of your life in perfectly itemised gear for you GS just to not have a rough time in solo content.
If i go do group content i don't way out gear, sure i expect to have to bring my A game. I don't expect this when out and about soloing. And once again my experiance on my other classes to date and observing other classes play does not show them having to engage in the kind of behaviour your exposing as normal just to have a solo experience comparable in difficulty to my GWF, (i don't expect anything except maybe GF to be as easy as my paladin, she's just god mode sue in solo content).
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
Fun is so... subjective. I find TR's extremely fun if you know how to play one, it's not as rewarding given their current state (they should do more damage than they do now IMO) but if you want to shine with your own little thing and you do not care much about being "best" DPS, TR's great. I'll counter Sharp and say I personally find CW's extremely boring and I quit mine early on as it I find it tedius revolving around 3 buttons, rinse and repeat, but you can say the same about a GWF. For me it's the rush that comes with not missing a beat, perfecting the rotation, never blinking, doing it just right. Honestly, my best suggestion to you OP is to try them out and see for yourself
I have a DC, GWF, GF and SW...from all that classes the warlock was by far the moat painfull to level and the most squishy at lower IL, but he is the class I allways get back to and have most fun, subjective.
DC is the supporter class, and if taht´s what you like it is your class, no other class can hold against.
GF and GWF was like a fast speed highway leveling. With some effort I can build a DPS-GF, maybe that would be also fun.
GWF is pretty tanky in PVE, even at low GS if you care about some little aspects. You melt through mobs, that´s more a char for someone without much patience, and he can be pretty good dps at low level if you invest into the right stats (crit)/build/mounts and companion. Playing solocontent and doing trash GWF is the fastest class I would say. No clue how someone can have issues with GWF in solocontent tbh. It´s double speed leveling and doing dailys and you never die, same with GF.
As a sidenote, I read so many feedback in the last years about CW being the most fun class, so maybe it´s true.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I have a DC, GWF, GF and SW...from all that classes the warlock was by far the moat painfull to level and the most squishy at lower IL, but he is the class I allways get back to and have most fun, subjective.
DC is the supporter class, and if taht´s what you like it is your class, no other class can hold against.
GF and GWF was like a fast speed highway leveling. With some effort I can build a DPS-GF, maybe that would be also fun.
GWF is pretty tanky in PVE, even at low GS if you care about some little aspects. You melt through mobs, that´s more a char for someone without much patience, and he can be pretty good dps at low level if you invest into the right stats (crit)/build/mounts and companion. Playing solocontent and doing trash GWF is the fastest class I would say. No clue how someone can have issues with GWF in solocontent tbh. It´s double speed leveling and doing dailys and you never die, same with GF.
As a sidenote, I read so many feedback in the last years about CW being the most fun class, so maybe it´s true.
@schietindebux I am definitely not saying CW is the most fun class, I am saying it is the class I enjoy the most. As I said earlier and then @rinat114 reiterated, fun is subjective and the class you will enjoy the most is the 1 that suites the way you like to play.
I have all at 70 and I think they're all fun. I just know I have to pick one or two 'mains' to focus on progressing. I waffle between them all and still cont decide lol
Right now I'm going with DPS GF and SS Ren with Spell Twisting. One melee heavy armor type and one bad <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> spell slinger type. I love my GWF too though, and my healadin - there's no use for a healer now though - so I work on them too.
I have a DC, GWF, GF and SW...from all that classes the warlock was by far the moat painfull to level and the most squishy at lower IL, but he is the class I allways get back to and have most fun, subjective.
DC is the supporter class, and if taht´s what you like it is your class, no other class can hold against.
GF and GWF was like a fast speed highway leveling. With some effort I can build a DPS-GF, maybe that would be also fun.
GWF is pretty tanky in PVE, even at low GS if you care about some little aspects. You melt through mobs, that´s more a char for someone without much patience, and he can be pretty good dps at low level if you invest into the right stats (crit)/build/mounts and companion. Playing solocontent and doing trash GWF is the fastest class I would say. No clue how someone can have issues with GWF in solocontent tbh. It´s double speed leveling and doing dailys and you never die, same with GF.
As a sidenote, I read so many feedback in the last years about CW being the most fun class, so maybe it´s true.
@schietindebux I am definitely not saying CW is the most fun class, I am saying it is the class I enjoy the most. As I said earlier and then @rinat114 reiterated, fun is subjective and the class you will enjoy the most is the 1 that suites the way you like to play.
Let me be clear in case it's got lost in there somwhere. I'm totally on board with having diffrent things they enjoy, whilst i don;t feel a CW is even clsoe to as tough to play as a Dark Souls character i brought Dark Souls up previously as an example of a game people play and enjoy precisely because they have to give 110% all the time. I've not been saying the CW can't be fun, just that it's a tough class to play because it does demand a lot from you all the time in terms of play level and optimisation and if your one of the countless players who runs around in quest reward provided gear and generally doesn't enjoy giving 110% all the time it's going to be a rough class for you.
And in case anyone including Fabricant have misunderstood me on this, when it comes to playing a the highest level or optimising or similar he's someone i pay attention to because he knows his stuff, but that level of play isn't necessarily representative of how the majority play at the fresh 70 stage or when soloing in general. But thats doesn't change the fact that once you want to move into high optimization and/or run group content you should not bloody well pay attention.
To come back to the fun thing I personally find (leaving my CW out of it), that my two other existing 70's are very different. My Paladin i love for group content and she's dammed good at getting a feel for new content because she's so tough nothing much can actually kill her. However doing content you aren't fully geared for is often tedious due to the low DPS and some mobs, (e.g. yeti's and Hammerstone dwarfs), have large amounts of CC spam which whilst generally not difficult to handle, is annoying to put up with somtimes because the paladin can't really stay survivable or deal damage and mitigate those at the same time.
My GWF by contrast does stuff quite quickly and CC spam is much less of an issue, but woe is you if you don't have the gear for the content, your tough, but your not that tough.
Paingiver is not an acurratte or Useful measure of your actual sustained damage output, (i.e DPS), in various ways it lies. For a true idea use ACT. Link below:
For your experience and opinion which is the most fun class dps? For fun I specifically refer to:
-fun/unique class mechanic
-skills
-aoe damage( i really like aoe damage)
If you have picked DC as your first, then i would recommend GWF or HR trapper.For HR you need be ready to grant him R9, bondings and at least perfect Dread/Vorpal. Each class can be expensive, but HR needs some initial investment otherwise it is frustrating at lvl 70.
I have a DC, GWF, GF and SW...from all that classes the warlock was by far the moat painfull to level and the most squishy at lower IL, but he is the class I allways get back to and have most fun, subjective.
DC is the supporter class, and if taht´s what you like it is your class, no other class can hold against.
GF and GWF was like a fast speed highway leveling. With some effort I can build a DPS-GF, maybe that would be also fun.
GWF is pretty tanky in PVE, even at low GS if you care about some little aspects. You melt through mobs, that´s more a char for someone without much patience, and he can be pretty good dps at low level if you invest into the right stats (crit)/build/mounts and companion. Playing solocontent and doing trash GWF is the fastest class I would say. No clue how someone can have issues with GWF in solocontent tbh. It´s double speed leveling and doing dailys and you never die, same with GF.
As a sidenote, I read so many feedback in the last years about CW being the most fun class, so maybe it´s true.
@schietindebux I am definitely not saying CW is the most fun class, I am saying it is the class I enjoy the most. As I said earlier and then @rinat114 reiterated, fun is subjective and the class you will enjoy the most is the 1 that suites the way you like to play.
sure, that´s what I wrote somewhere in mypost subjective, what else? I only wanted to state that over the last years I heared/read about manny player, who enjoyed CW as their most fun class. That´s my subjective impression about NWO classes I would say there are allways preferences, some play rogues in every mmo the played, some go tank , some are focussed on caster or supporter. The question "what to play" only tells me the player doesn´t know much about classes nor have preferences. So maybe CW can´t be wrong because CW can one of the best supporter, a great damagedealer, he even can heal your teammates and he is the class that can be a great controller (outside dungeons, once upon a time insidedungeons also). All trees and paragon work somehow and the class seems to be balanced. Doing PVP is not an easy task, but I saw some builds that obviously work on high level.
All of them actually. I have all the classes at 70 lvl with playable gear. Each has its own little smth making the class fun to play. Sadly with each mod the game becomes less & less alt-friendly so i can only support 2-3 characters. AS other said before me, don't ask try it.
Comments
This can be seen as a negative too, since it requires a bit of setup before you do something different, but using a wide array of useful encounters/dailies/at-wills makes it more interesting over all.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
here's my short list of things that scream "this is a terrible class to play from a fun vs pain poV".
1. Your dodging all over the place just to keep the melee archons from hitting you. Whilst i have to dodge some splat types on my other characters, (and observing others play the other classes i don't have at a high level shows them doing the same), i don't need to dodge basic melee attacks just to not get killed, and watching other classes i don't have shows the same thing for them. In fact the other ranged classes often don;t even have most of their enemies still alive by the time they start taking melee hits.
2. You Spend most of your time waaay down on hitpoints, some classes being below 50% isn't a huge deal because they have good defences or get out of jail skills or feat or other tricks or whatever.The CW doesn't have that. Being below 50% is firmly in the "Oh no i'm in troubled" range, and you spend a moderate chunk below 25% which again for a class like a CW, (and to be fair any other class i've played), is in the "Oh my god i'm gonna die!" range, albeit again the lack of tricks on a CW makes this much more negetive than with another class. Again my experience playing with or watching other classes play is that they can generally avoid this kind of problem intake through a combination of burning targets down before they do much damage, raw toughness, and various tricks to let them hover on low health at less risk.
3. You burn a lot of healing potions. Whilst being able to do a 3 man SR heroic without needing a pot is unlikely for any non-tank class the amount you go through is very noticeable. And this is definitely one of my yardsticks on the painful vs pleasant scale, if i find myself burning pots reguarly enough that i don't get enough replacements via drops to mostly or completely negate needing to buy them i tend to consider the class towards the pain end of the spectrum.
4. Not to criticise your gear choices because i appreciate what you did and that you probably used what you could cheaply afford at a low cost and had lying around, so you're not trying to manipulate anything here. But whilst your gear score is quite low, enough of mine comes from things like utility enchants, defence enchants, artifacts, and the pants and shirt, (of which only my offence enchants seriously change my stats when stripped), that it's not as bad as it appears by comparison. (For reference i can get my gear score down to 1.35k without majorly efects any of my stats, if you want screenshots, ask).
Additionally whilst this is again i'm sure more a consequence of how stat distribution on AH gear works than a deliberate attempt to manipulate things i'm sure, your gear has a set of stat priorities that is biased very differently from the sort of gear leveling e.t.c. provides you with. You seemed to be prioritizing in order;. Arp, Hp, Power, whilst leveling gear tends to run; HP, Power, Crit, Recov, Def Stats, Arp. Mathing it out my significantly higher power and crit when you factor in ability scores only gives me about a 10% total average damage boost, whilst you slightly higher total Arp, (you about 500 ahead of me despite my 5 rank 7 darks), probably in the real world wipes out that edge, so your about as effective overall despite a 700 GS difference between us. And yeah sure you got that for 5k AD ff the AH, but again, you don;t need to do this on any other class, you shouldn't need to go out and get perfectly optimized gear just to go do normal on GS and character level content, the gear provided by the content or it's preceding section should be enough.
Now don;t get me wrong that was still impressive overall like i said, but to me that was a perfect example of every problem i have with the class. It's the only class i've played or observed, (when there's no obvious other issues), where getting below half health and moving around constantly to avoid basic melee auto-at-wills and burning pot's, and having BiS for GS level gear is required just to do basic on level content.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
You make the argument that CW is not fun at low ilvls and yes, my main CW is BiS (the 1 in that picture). However you should remember at 1 stage, my wizard was not BiS. I have not magically always been BiS and I have always enjoyed the CW playstyle, so just because YOU don't enjoy it doesn't mean that nobody does.
Yes, it does not have as easy a time soloing as GWF or Righteous DC, does that mean its not fun? No it does not.
As for me not playing other classes? I have 1 of each at 70 and I used to run OP as a main for a while.
Where are your procs? And why did you chose mof as a lowbie cw trying to farm boons? The CW's damage is all about procs. I haven't seen any storm spell proc on that video, only fire stuff that shouldn't be used unless you know what you're doing.
Where is your crit chance? I hav barely seen any crit. If your crit chance is too low then why aren't you using eye of the storm instead of chilling presence? (again why are you fire?)
Why are you staying in red with a character that barely does any damage in that state, and why didn't you get some cheap gear with armpen and lifesteal on the auction house?
I can understand that people don't like the CW because it's very complicated to play - far more than it used to. On some aspects, it takes a fair amount of understanding of the game mechanics, even though there are far more complex classes. But it's not bad in any way.
--
To the OP: I have started to play a ranger lately, and it is a very satisfying experience. The class doesn't seem very hard to play, yet it's fun, and it has access to a ton of spells due to the class mechanic. I'm not sure I can recommend you a CW. I used to level up CW mules for farming, and the first 30 levels are not very fun (until you have access to icy terrain) and the first ten levels are a torture. The first CW spells have been nerfed so many times it's just not fun to level up at all until late in the game, so keep that in mind.
The CW is extremely fun to play... At lvl 70, with a solid backlog of game experience and a good understanding of all the complexities of the game mechanics. I wouldn't recommend it as a first dps character anymore. Over the past few years its dps moved from spells (= easy mode) to convoluted combination of obscure stuff (= hard mode) that leaves little room to mess up. But there are so many ways to mess things up that it's not even funny.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
As long as you don't mind NOT (ever) being top on the DPS charts, the most fun "dps" class I have had fun with is the HR Combat tree. (Close your gaping mouth, it doesn't make for a good look).
With my Combat HR, I wade in with little regard for my own life. Why? Because I heal like a madman. I am by no means BIS, and only a 2.6 IL HR. I use an augment stone (GASP). I have stacked up lots of lifesteal (I am at 20-22% chance without having the lifesteal SH boon). For offense, my enchants go towards Crit Chance due to the fact that I DID take the feat that lowers my Crit Chance in order to give me Crit Severity. As long as I do not get 1-shotted, which CAN happen if I am unlucky, no matter how far down my hp goes, I can quickly get it back up with an encounter or 2. I am currently trying to add in as much Combat Advantage in to get more extra damage in.
It isn't going to be the best, I know, but I do have lots of fun with it. Give it a try if you like, but as I said, you will never (ok well *I* will never) be the top on the dps chart, but you can hold your own.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
with further progress, it turned into my most fun to play class.
so its no bad idea to ask people about their opinion, you just have to be aware that tastes differ (obviously a lot lol)
I was grouped with similar geared GWFs and did up to 10x their dmg and I was grouped with similar geared GWFs who did double my dmg. My GWF is an alt with good gear, but just an alt. There are some ppl playing GWF as main with great skill and many playing it as a head on the keyboard class, bc he is very forgiving with decent gear.
I wouldn't comment on SW since the changes, but that class was clunky as hell but the only real range dps we have.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
On the down side we're not the fastest class as far as getting from here to there and we don't have as much burst as a TR or GWF, but once we're in the thick of it and start dropping growths there's plenty of blood to water our roots
I meant to say smallest gap. Not small gap.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Fortunately i think i can largely address Fabricants 2 posts, (and everyone else's too), with one smallish one.
Ok now your really are showing how long it's been since you played down at this level. A GWF in similar GS to my CW doesn't need unstoppable to facetank through this stuff without most of the time staying above half health, i went and did my DR dailies on my GWF and i fought a number of fights where i just used my encounters because by the time my unstoppable bar filled everything was near enough dead that it would have been a waste to use it. And if it wasn't a crowd control effect i didn't worry about the splats. Because splats are not punishing in solo play in most cases on my GWF even without unstoppable and a fair bit less raw health.
This is what you seem to be missing, this is solo content, the gear that content provides you with should be more than adequate for the content being done, and there should be enough slippage in there to account for miss plays, plain bad players, and the occasional touch of laziness or inattention due to behind the keyboard issues or RNG going against you with enemy crits, (or your own or w/e). You shouldn't have to play to within an inch of your life in perfectly itemised gear for you GS just to not have a rough time in solo content.
If i go do group content i don't way out gear, sure i expect to have to bring my A game. I don't expect this when out and about soloing. And once again my experiance on my other classes to date and observing other classes play does not show them having to engage in the kind of behaviour your exposing as normal just to have a solo experience comparable in difficulty to my GWF, (i don't expect anything except maybe GF to be as easy as my paladin, she's just god mode sue in solo content).
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
DC is the supporter class, and if taht´s what you like it is your class, no other class can hold against.
GF and GWF was like a fast speed highway leveling. With some effort I can build a DPS-GF, maybe that would be also fun.
GWF is pretty tanky in PVE, even at low GS if you care about some little aspects. You melt through mobs, that´s more a char for someone without much patience, and he can be pretty good dps at low level if you invest into the right stats (crit)/build/mounts and companion. Playing solocontent and doing trash GWF is the fastest class I would say. No clue how someone can have issues with GWF in solocontent tbh. It´s double speed leveling and doing dailys and you never die, same with GF.
As a sidenote, I read so many feedback in the last years about CW being the most fun class, so maybe it´s true.
Right now I'm going with DPS GF and SS Ren with Spell Twisting. One melee heavy armor type and one bad <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> spell slinger type. I love my GWF too though, and my healadin - there's no use for a healer now though
Sooo many choices! Arghh
And in case anyone including Fabricant have misunderstood me on this, when it comes to playing a the highest level or optimising or similar he's someone i pay attention to because he knows his stuff, but that level of play isn't necessarily representative of how the majority play at the fresh 70 stage or when soloing in general. But thats doesn't change the fact that once you want to move into high optimization and/or run group content you should not bloody well pay attention.
To come back to the fun thing I personally find (leaving my CW out of it), that my two other existing 70's are very different. My Paladin i love for group content and she's dammed good at getting a feel for new content because she's so tough nothing much can actually kill her. However doing content you aren't fully geared for is often tedious due to the low DPS and some mobs, (e.g. yeti's and Hammerstone dwarfs), have large amounts of CC spam which whilst generally not difficult to handle, is annoying to put up with somtimes because the paladin can't really stay survivable or deal damage and mitigate those at the same time.
My GWF by contrast does stuff quite quickly and CC spam is much less of an issue, but woe is you if you don't have the gear for the content, your tough, but your not that tough.
https://github.com/nilsbrummond/Neverwinter-ACT-Plugin
— (The unwritten rule)
I only wanted to state that over the last years I heared/read about manny player, who enjoyed CW as their most fun class. That´s my subjective impression about NWO classes
I would say there are allways preferences, some play rogues in every mmo the played, some go tank , some are focussed on caster or supporter.
The question "what to play" only tells me the player doesn´t know much about classes nor have preferences.
So maybe CW can´t be wrong because CW can one of the best supporter, a great damagedealer, he even can heal your teammates and he is the class that can be a great controller (outside dungeons, once upon a time insidedungeons also).
All trees and paragon work somehow and the class seems to be balanced.
Doing PVP is not an easy task, but I saw some builds that obviously work on high level.