Remove the EF Resist Requirement from FBI.

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Comments

  • silverkelt
    silverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    It will take several weeks, vblood is one thing (and considering we need it to empower as well) the TT is what really bottlenecks this, both are too high really.

    If your a casual player forget it, it would take forever.

    If your a every day player this will still take some time.

  • treesclimber
    treesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    loboguild said:

    This is indeed "interesting", because it means free-to-play players can't enter the content. We're talking strictly free-to-play here, but it's the case. You need Trade Bards to get to the 29%. My impression is that the campaign itself only nets 16% + 5% Potion = 21%, which is not enough.



    Am I missing something here?



    For everyone else the requirements are cake. Two-piece Frostborn is 8% empowered + 5% Potion + campaign 16% = 29%.​​

    The items avaliable in preview are:
    4 pieces of armour;
    Shirt:
    Pants;
    2 Makos signet;
    SH food;
    3 diferent potions(1 is escavator tough);
    Reinforcment kits for pants and shirt;
    Boons;

    So i dont know where many of those things come from but i think geting the 29% just with boots will be reacheable to f2p players even considering only boots from the armour can be get out of FBI.




  • zebular
    zebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited August 2016
    I wasn't a fan of the mechanic in IWD and still am not. I don't see the need for such, there's better ways to make things more challenging than forcing players into different gear. I really am not liking the idea that one needs to get new end-game armor for each new module. I simply won't play anymore content that forces me to change gear again to participate. Perhaps if one day I get there just by playing other aspects of the game, fine. I shall not go out of my way to obsolete the gear I've worked so hard for, for what the third time now?

    I'd rather have the game focus on the character, not their gear, as D&D was meant to be. This gear-centric mindset for all new content needs to be done away with. Let's advance our characters from now on, not our gear. Thanks!
  • ironzerg79
    ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    To be fair, you can just do the campaign tasks and collect the boons. You don't need to chase the Relic armor if you really don't want it.
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  • shiva79#6664
    shiva79#6664 Member Posts: 70 Arc User



    plus you will also need EVEN more vblood to empower the junk gear.




    thats what its really making it bad.
    i dont mind, if it takes longer to get the appropriate gear, but dont make it a neverending task (especially with the current expiration time of the empowerment)

  • zebular
    zebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited August 2016

    To be fair, you can just do the campaign tasks and collect the boons. You don't need to chase the Relic armor if you really don't want it.

    That's only 4% Everfrost Resistance between the two boon choices that give 2% each. In my opinion, if this mechanic stays, every SKT Campaign boon choice should give 6% and remove the resistance from gear, leaving the potions and kits in game for added resistance. This way a character can do just well on their own merits and augment such with armor kits and potions, should they choose.
  • valwryn
    valwryn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,620 Arc User
    One little detail everyone has missied is that when ya charge up each armor piece, more EF resistance (1-2%) is added. The boots alone when at T3 is 8%.

    The 29% resistance needed is a typo.......it's suppose to be 28%.

    It won't be as bad ya think it really is. :|
  • zebular
    zebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    Reiterated from the poll thread: I wasn't a fan of the mechanic in IWD and still am not. I don't see the need for such, there's better ways to make things more challenging than forcing players into different gear. I really am not liking the idea that one needs to get new end-game armor for each new module. I simply won't play anymore content that forces me to change gear again to participate. Perhaps if one day I get there just by playing other aspects of the game, fine. I shall not go out of my way to obsolete the gear I've worked so hard for, for what the third time now?

    The boons only give a total of 4% Everfrost Resistance, 2% each. In my opinion, if this mechanic stays, every SKT Campaign boon choice should give 6% and remove the resistance from gear, leaving the potions and kits in game for added resistance. This way a character can do just well on their own merits and augment such with armor kits and potions, should they choose.

    I'd rather have the game focus on the character, not their gear, as D&D was meant to be. This gear-centric mindset for all new content needs to be done away with. Let's advance our characters from now on, not our gear. Thanks!
  • qexotic
    qexotic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 840 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    valwryn said:

    One little detail everyone has missied is that when ya charge up each armor piece, more EF resistance (1-2%) is added. The boots alone when at T3 is 8%.

    The 29% resistance needed is a typo.......it's suppose to be 28%.

    It won't be as bad ya think it really is. :|

    Not everyone missed that :) Check my list further up the page which included the Epic Boots maxed out at 8%. 'Paying' for everything first to make it available and then to actually get hold of it is going to be the big hardship which will take months due to the high cost in terms of Voninblod and Twin Towns' Supplies.

  • beckylunatic
    beckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    To be fair, you can just do the campaign tasks and collect the boons. You don't need to chase the Relic armor if you really don't want it.

    Kind of a Catch-22.

    Relic armor seems to be the primary reward from FBI. I suppose that's a powerful incentive if you want it. If you don't want it, then you're facing an awful, awful lot of grind just because those are the hoops in front of you to be permitted to even try the dungeon.

    There are plenty of people reporting in who have already given up on the idea of FBI access, even though they were previously looking forward to it. I don't think that sounds like a successful reception.

    It just strikes me as sad, that they released content that so many players were so looking froward to, but getting into it requires so much tedium. I realize I am not saying anything here that others haven't already said, but I don't think good game design is based around the faint hope that players will power through their own boredom and frustration with weeks or months worth of mindless busywork because you've told them there's something really awesome at the end of it.




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  • silverkelt
    silverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    There simply is not enough time , unless this is the last mod for say a year.. to really get into this.

    In which case, we will all be so sick of it.

    They simply need to scale back something here.. either the cost of materials, or the amount needed to get in or whatever.. its not in line with other campaigns.

    Daily quests should double vblood. (from 50 to 100 per)
    weekly quests should double rep they have.
    they should reduce costing by at least 50%.
    and they should up the resistance on the frostburn armors to like 8% per.
    They also need to look in how much empowered you lose on a timer.. too quick and its really really bad.

    A combination approach could work.

    However, being stubborn here is their worst choice (and the wrong one).. They really need to scale things back .. by a wide margin.

  • ironzerg79
    ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited August 2016

    It just strikes me as sad, that they released content that so many players were so looking froward to, but getting into it requires so much tedium. I realize I am not saying anything here that others haven't already said, but I don't think good game design is based around the faint hope that players will power through their own boredom and frustration with weeks or months worth of mindless busywork because you've told them there's something really awesome at the end of it.

    And I mean this as an honest question. What else are you going to do?

    Is the journey worth anything?

    To me, it's something new. Something different. I don't mind the fact that it'll take me a few weeks to prepare to enter Frostfang Island, because I know once I get there, I'll end up running it so many times, I'll be bored out of my skull with it before the next module launches. At least now I have some sort of goal and more purpose when I log into Neverwinter each night. I'm actually working towards something.

    I log in, do my dailies, and then maybe run thirty minutes to an hour of HEs, then call it a night. Why? Because there's no rush. I don't even really care if I open Frostfang Island at the earliest possible second, because it really doesn't matter.

    So I get that people are frustrated by the %resistance needed to just get in the door. Do I like the hardcoded requirement? No. Do I think the resistance gear should still be made meaningful and impact people who don't have it? Yes! But I think the decision as to how much and when do they need to gear for this resistance should be a choice.

    It's like the old World of Warcraft days...if you were going into Molten Core, you needed fire resistance gear, or it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible to finish the raid. But the game didn't lock the door until you had X%. It slammed you on the head until you realized, "Dang, I need more fire resistance". And how much was up to the player.

    But back to your point above...if all this game is for you is tedium and busywork, then the entire thing is a waste of time, is it not? If the words you're using to describe your experience are "boredom" and "frustration" then...I hate to be the one to break this to you, but when you get to the end of Fangbreaker Island...it's just the end of another dungeon. There isn't any life-changing theophany that's going to magically make all that "boredom" and "frustration" worth it.

    So if you can't find any joy at all in the Module 10 journey to Fangbreaker Island...well...?


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  • beckylunatic
    beckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User


    And I mean this as an honest question. What else are you going to do?

    Ay, there's the rub.

    I don't personally love or hate most dailies. They're kind of... just there. I listen to the online radio and kill a few monsters or gather a few macguffins. I'm not in a hurry because the goals are abstract and also just kind of a series of boxes to gradually tick off, maybe slightly faster than new boxes are added, but now usually not. I'm frequently treating NW as a single-player game, except that there are other people around to talk to. And I happen to like rambling around in the virtual wilderness, so just looking for relics in Lonelywood might be all I want to do. That's ok, for me. But I'm a weirdo outlier, and well aware of it.

    I think it's entirely correct that if you don't like what you're doing and you have any choice in the matter, you should stop.

    The way you phrase your question really kind of gets to me. If you're playing any game simply because you've got nothing better to do, and not because you like it (or your community in it), that seems like a really good reason to examine your life priorities. And then I wonder how much this applies to all MMOs, because I really don't know.

    There's so much psychology that seems to apply to MMOs in a negative way when I feel like more use of positive psychology would make for better games, it really does my head in.
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  • silverkelt
    silverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    Im looking at the length of the grind, its heavier then expected, considering that every 3-4 months we get new grind, this one seems out of wack with what the rest of the grind is.

    Either this mod is meant to last longer then 3-4 months (6 months a year?) or the didnt think the amount of grind associated with this.
  • sh00termcl0vin
    sh00termcl0vin Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    From all the posts here seems like it will end up being another dungeon like Cragmire or Gray Wolf den that will get run a few times so people can brag about completing it and then abandoned. I'm sure everyone appreciates the development time that has been put in but grinding is only acceptable if there is a worthwhile goal to move towards. +1 rings, rank 8 enchants, and salvage cosmetic items are not. It's like someone enduring months of tedious training to enter a competition where the prize is a 20$ starbucks gift card.
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  • solbergx
    solbergx Member Posts: 654 Arc User
    Maybe it they should put the resist requirement for a even harder version of it with better drops
  • ironzerg79
    ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User

    The way you phrase your question really kind of gets to me. If you're playing any game simply because you've got nothing better to do, and not because you like it (or your community in it), that seems like a really good reason to examine your life priorities. And then I wonder how much this applies to all MMOs, because I really don't know.

    There's so much psychology that seems to apply to MMOs in a negative way when I feel like more use of positive psychology would make for better games, it really does my head in.

    It's not meant to be a negative. I'm what you would call a gaming enthusiast. I love games. Board games. Card games. Roleplay games. Video games. I just love games.

    And there's an unbelievable choice out there right now as far as games go. People should be playing games because they actually enjoy playing the game. And this is true for all games, and MMOs in particular, since they're generally games people feel more invested in.

    This should be, in a general sense, fun. Or at least a source of some sort of satisfaction, right?

    And I get what's going on around here. I've been playing MMOs for 20 years now. When you look through these threads, particularly the ones on Fangbreak Island, you see an enourmous amount of rhetoric and hyperbole being thrown around. People describing how soul-crushingly miserable these changes are, how' it's essentially ruined their lives and destroy their will to live. It's, honestly, a fairly common tactic on your typical MMO message board, particularly when very passionate players are pushing back against a change they disagree with.

    But sometimes, like in this instance, the act is laid on so thick it makes me pause and ask myself, "Wait a minute. Are people really making themselves this miserable over a video game?" If that's genuinely the case, I would highly recommend that they perhaps take the time to personally re-evaluate their priorities, and perhaps seek out leisure activities that bring them happiness and satisfaction, and induce a little less rage and sadness into their lives.

    And your post, @beckylunatic was a bit of a tipping point for me in this discussion.

    I get that people aren't thrilled with the change. But maybe, just maybe, we need to dial the rhetoric and hyperbole back a few notches and bring this discussion a little back down to earth.
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  • ironzerg79
    ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    solbergx said:

    Maybe it they should put the resist requirement for a even harder version of it with better drops

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  • sh00termcl0vin
    sh00termcl0vin Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    Epic and normal version make sense, though I suspect they lack the development resources for this. It's far easier to just tune the loot for one version while retaining the difficult entry requirements
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  • hfleet
    hfleet Member Posts: 134 Arc User
    I have spent years and tears building the one suit of gear I wear.
    It works very well in all (most?) PVE places I love to play.

    I CANNOT just toss it away for a flash-in-the-pan set of gear ONLY for one zone.
    (and it would take me ages and ages to do so anyway...)
  • diogene0
    diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User

    Epic and normal version make sense, though I suspect they lack the development resources for this. It's far easier to just tune the loot for one version while retaining the difficult entry requirements

    This game has been obviously running on a skeleton crew since mod 6. I have yet to see a new prop in the new instances. Everything is something I've already seen somewhere else. There's also no new NPC. All of them are copy/pasta of some module, mostly 3. If there were a prize for the amount of time a gaming studio can recycle assets, Cryptic would win hands down.
  • zibadawa
    zibadawa Member Posts: 1,266 Arc User

    I think the problem is rooted in the fact that dungeons and skirmishes give horrible rewards. Yet, some events now give legendary mounts and other valuables. It is backwards. If we are going to go through all of this work to get to a dungeon, we should be given rewards that are at least as good as events.

    But getting that legendary requires you spend 10+ hours a day grinding out that event over a bunch of characters for the entire event.

    The only event where I really wanted to do that was Siege of Neverwinter, because I could get lots of stronghold vouchers. Sahha I wasn't as interested in, but you could still get vouchers (sort of: they were key gated, because they wants our moneys) at least. Crummy mounts are a bit more interesting now with the stable; they might give an insignia combo you want, or they have a cool look and you want to ride around on it. They should really make more stuff like Siege of Neverwinter. Instead of making events yet another tedious grind that's largely independent of everything else, make that grind work towards the other grinds: give us campaign currencies and stronghold vouchers so we can feel like not only are we grinding the event but also the other massive grinds we're saddled with.
  • diogene0
    diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User

    Now that more information is known, its worse then I feared, it will take forever to get the actual junk gear you need to enter. See below, these are reducable, but of course you have to spend more vblood and rep to reduce the costing.

    Just LOL funny to think of the sheer amount of time needed.



    Drops the microphone, there is no defense for this. None of you can even remotely come to the conclusion this is a ok gating mechanic after seeing these prices.

    The whole system is super flawed atm.

    I know some of you would want to switch your vote now =P.

    Vblood is one thing.. you can farm that non stop, but rep isnt, its gated per day and a couple of weeklies , so you can only get so much so fast, and you still need it to open up the encounter to start with.

    Plus your going to have to succumb to doing mindnumbing hes to get the vblood needed.

    plus you will also need EVEN more vblood to empower the junk gear.




    To be fair I'd rather ask for the price of these items to be reduced. We can't farm ten town supplies, yet, they're required for everything. This is far worse than reputation or time gating, the maths hasn't been done properly by the guy who determined prices that's all.
  • thefabricant
    thefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    diogene0 said:

    Now that more information is known, its worse then I feared, it will take forever to get the actual junk gear you need to enter. See below, these are reducable, but of course you have to spend more vblood and rep to reduce the costing.

    Just LOL funny to think of the sheer amount of time needed.



    Drops the microphone, there is no defense for this. None of you can even remotely come to the conclusion this is a ok gating mechanic after seeing these prices.

    The whole system is super flawed atm.

    I know some of you would want to switch your vote now =P.

    Vblood is one thing.. you can farm that non stop, but rep isnt, its gated per day and a couple of weeklies , so you can only get so much so fast, and you still need it to open up the encounter to start with.

    Plus your going to have to succumb to doing mindnumbing hes to get the vblood needed.

    plus you will also need EVEN more vblood to empower the junk gear.




    To be fair I'd rather ask for the price of these items to be reduced. We can't farm ten town supplies, yet, they're required for everything. This is far worse than reputation or time gating, the maths hasn't been done properly by the guy who determined prices that's all.
    Added to that with the current gains of TT supplies, its going to take at least 7 weeks to finish the boons excluding the buying of gear or anything else.
  • silver11#9318
    silver11#9318 Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    One of the very few times ive been glad that pc is ahead of xbox. Ill decide on skipping this mod once the dungeon rewards are announced. If theyre really bad, ill just continue to be lostmauths meal until I burnout on NW as a whole.
  • ironzerg79
    ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    Hrm...the Manticore is new. The Dragon Turtle is new. Cattie-Brie and Wulfgar are new.

    They've been using new "dynamic" animations in the world. The crows flying off in the fields, and the trees getting chopped down and falling over are new, or at least I've never seen it used before.

    There's also new "classes" of giants that have different attack powers.

    Plus you did get four new maps: Bryn Shandar, Lonelywood, Cold Run and Fangbreaker Keep.

    So...yeah. You can gripe about a lot of stuff here, but complaining about everything being 100% recycled is a stretch.
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