Remove the EF Resist Requirement from FBI.

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Comments

  • diogene0
    diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User

    So, the solutions are to remove the pre-mod 6 set bonuses and make EF damage hit harder.

    Or having bosses and some big trash doing HP checks like 110k piercing damage. But we're talking about cryptic, they're going to come up with a homebrew solution that makes no one happy.
  • treesclimber
    treesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    Are the item's on the upgraded store unbound?

  • deusazza
    deusazza Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 63 Arc User
    that's your endgame right there. if it gets too loose then there will be another outcry that it was soooooooo eaaaassssyyyyy.

    the challenge is set.
  • qexotic
    qexotic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 840 Arc User

    See that IS 50% of the entire problem, the best way to farm boons is doing FBI, but you cant really farm FBI until have the boons.

    Well, not quite. There is no best way to farm the latest boons as they have increasingly high Reputation requirements which cannot be bought or farmed even if/when you do get access to FBI. Only two of the new boons offer Everfrost Resistance, the second and fourth. The fourth boon requires 350 Reputation which is 150 higher than FBI to begin with. Oh, and the small matter of 34000 Voninblod, 180 Secrets of Ostoria and 120 Ten Towns' Supplies. Secrets and TT Supplies have to be ground out over time and the TT Supplies are also needed to progress through the rest of the Campaign so you can open FBI. This new campaign makes getting the final two boons in the Tyranny of Dragons Campaign look like a short, enjoyable walk in the park.

    WHAT the effing heck , totally ignorant thought system here.

    You wont find me arguing against that assessment though :)
  • krymkac
    krymkac Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    Yeah. I mean what the heck. We don't need devs to hold our hand and kindly show us the right way to play the game. If ppl want to enter the new dungeon with 0% res & press on no matter the wipes count - let them. True challenge ftw! I would remove even itl requirements for premades. First weeks of the mod 6 in t2 dungeons in old gear were awesome.
  • ironzerg79
    ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    krymkac said:

    Yeah. I mean what the heck. We don't need devs to hold our hand and kindly show us the right way to play the game. If ppl want to enter the new dungeon with 0% res & press on no matter the wipes count - let them. True challenge ftw! I would remove even itl requirements for premades. First weeks of the mod 6 in t2 dungeons in old gear were awesome.

    I agree with this assessment. I'm fine if the Everfrost damage in the new dungeon is extra brutal, but give people the choice. If they want to gear up with more Everfrost resistance, they have that option. If they feel like they can get by without investing in it, go for it.

    I have no problem with the Everfrost damage mechanic itself, but gating the new dungeon behind a 3100 GS requirement AND a lengthy campaign AND an arbitrary Everfrost resistance minimum? That's too much.

    EDIT: I'm also a fan of removing iLevel requirements for Private Queues, too...since we're on the subject. If people willingly chose to put together an undergeared group, go for it! In fact, that might be the best solution overall for everything...if Fangbreak Island had the GS and EF requirements for the Public Queue, but removed them for the Private Queues, I'd see that as a huge win.
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  • silverkelt
    silverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    deusazza said:

    that's your endgame right there. if it gets too loose then there will be another outcry that it was soooooooo eaaaassssyyyyy.

    the challenge is set.

    getting HAMSTER gear to enter a dungeon shouldn't be considered a challenge..lol.. seriously.
  • deusazza
    deusazza Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 63 Arc User

    deusazza said:

    that's your endgame right there. if it gets too loose then there will be another outcry that it was soooooooo eaaaassssyyyyy.

    the challenge is set.

    getting **** gear to enter a dungeon shouldn't be considered a challenge..lol.. seriously.
    its part of it. why not?
  • empalas
    empalas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 799 Arc User
    Maybe there is something we are missing as it does seem odd that to get the requirement you would have use tradebars to get the armor.

    I would hazard a guess that eventually the resistance won't be necessary. Just like they did with Kessels which doesn't have the black ice requirement anymore.
  • dragoness10
    dragoness10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 780 Arc User

    The main issue with this is not need/want. If you have to spend Zen/Tarmalune bars to enter FBI, that is a dramatic change away from Neverwinter's profile as a free to play game.

    So far all content in NW has been accessible without spending real money.

    The core definition of a pay-to-win game is that the best/highlevel content/gear only is available if you pay.

    Earn AD in game for actually putting in effort and time playing.
    Use AD to buy in game Zen.
    Use Zen to get VIP.
    Use VIP to get free daily Lockbox Key.
    Use Lockbox Key to open Lockboxes for items to sell, and Tarmalune bars.
    Refresh Zen monthly for more VIP.

    : holds up her first piece of Everfrost resist gear:

    FREE to do, and FREE to play. It just takes some time and effort.

    " I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep

    "Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."

    "Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
  • gabrieldourden
    gabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    I see only 4% from the boons, not 16%. Do you include in the 16% the pants and shirt from the campaign market?
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • silverkelt
    silverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User

    Because we are allowed to question their thought process, by your logic, ever bug/flaw and wrongly laid out item, would be ok, because its in the game.


  • lukejones77
    lukejones77 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 282 Arc User
    edited August 2016

    The main issue with this is not need/want. If you have to spend Zen/Tarmalune bars to enter FBI, that is a dramatic change away from Neverwinter's profile as a free to play game.

    So far all content in NW has been accessible without spending real money.

    The core definition of a pay-to-win game is that the best/highlevel content/gear only is available if you pay.

    Earn AD in game for actually putting in effort and time playing.
    Use AD to buy in game Zen.
    Use Zen to get VIP.
    Use VIP to get free daily Lockbox Key.
    Use Lockbox Key to open Lockboxes for items to sell, and Tarmalune bars.
    Refresh Zen monthly for more VIP.

    : holds up her first piece of Everfrost resist gear:

    FREE to do, and FREE to play. It just takes some time and effort.

    LOL.
    Can you please restate that procedure in the context of actual time passed and chance to succeed on a daily basis - but also in the context of ... "fun game"? ;)

    Or, do we drop "fun game" for "just takes some time and effort"?


    So, I get that everyone has a personal opinion of what "fun game" means. Perhaps we review the level of excitement generally expressed at the arrival of module 10 (the excited forum posts?), or perhaps by what we can see of the average daily login activity.

    Man, I love this game, but it's scarey how often lately I run into the same recognizable faces in PUG runs :(
  • qexotic
    qexotic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 840 Arc User

    I see only 4% from the boons, not 16%. Do you include in the 16% the pants and shirt from the campaign market?

    This is the complete list of known, obtainable everfrost resist items that I posted in another thread. It excludes the two pieces of Frostborn gear available from the Tradebar store and the Zen Store as the Dev posting on that thread had said they expressly wanted people to be able to achieve the target figure without needing any Frostborn gear:

    Easy to get:

    2nd Boon = 2% (just takes time)
    Potion of Everfrost Resist (Blue bottle) = 5%
    Excavator's Potion of Everfrost Resist = 5% (but potions don't stack anymore)

    Hard to get:

    Trailblazer's Raid Gaiters, i.e. Epic Boots dropped from Major HEs in Bryn Shander (Maxed) = 8% (The drop rate on this may be 'reasonable' but getting together a group to run the large HEs successfully is not easy)
    (4th Boon = 2% but doesn't count as you need 350 Reputation which is more than you need to reach FBI)

    Uncertain as I do not know where you find/buy/obtain them:

    Makos' Signet = 3% (downgrade to gear due to Utility slot rather than Defense)
    Greater Everfrost Trousers, i.e. Epic Undergarment = 3% (Store item maybe ? But cost unknown)
    Greater Everfrost Undercoat, i.e. Epic Undergarment = 3% (Store item maybe ? But cost unknown)
    Cawl Cennin (soup ?) = 2% (SH item ? Unobtainable to players not in a Guild)

    Could be made of unobtainium:

    Everfrost Resist Armor Kit = 3% = 6% when applied to both undergarments

    Apparently, the Armor Kits will be a Campaign Store Item so cost unknown. Hope this helps :)

  • gabrieldourden
    gabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    @qexotic : Thank you very much for posting this list! :smile:
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • micky1p00
    micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,540 Arc User
    edited August 2016


    This gating mechanic is one of those things, not only will it require you to purchase zen items to enter, it also has a crazy amount of campaign grinding to do so, its both a massive time wall and gate wall. 31% is the max everfrost resistance you can get (apparently) through all its forms, they so graciously lowered it to 28 (or was it 29%) but whatever.. this barely does anything. YOU will still have to buy zen items + POT up to enter (like whhhattt!)

    While I agree about the removal and especially with the private queue requirements (zergs post). The zen part is not like was stated by devs several times.
    You are supposed to get the full needed resistance with campaign store parts, boots ( + perhaps the soup ). Without the t.bar / zen sets.
    Being unlock able items and looks like no one unlocked them on preview or at least posted about them (except the utility ring), no one knows the exact costs.

    But again, the forced zen part is disinformation.
  • valwryn
    valwryn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,620 Arc User
    Shirt, Pants, Potion and Reinforce Kits are available in the SKT shop once you unlock certain things in the Campaign. The price will vary depending on how many times you unlock'd the nine shop price tasks on the campaign.

    The Cawl Cennin soup is only available to those with a Market lvl 6.

    Makos ring is obtain from the Last Storyline quest before you enter FBI.
  • micky1p00
    micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,540 Arc User
    edited August 2016


    if it was a time gate only, I would be ok with it, but its not , its also a paygate. I dont think you have clearly looked at what they are requiring for us to enter, it could cost you millions and millions of AD to do so.

    They have never made both things in the game attributable at the same time.

    You simple DO NOT finish he campiagn and enter.. you have to buy things from the zen store and swap out all of your gear.

    I AM 100% ok if they wanted us to finish he campaign first, fine by me.

    As I wrote in your poll, I think you should check this thread:
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1220919/how-long-is-it-supposed-to-take-to-unlock-fangbreakers-island

    There are no millions and millions of AD to do so. It's heavily time gated. It's extremely annoying in terms of swapping gear, etc but the cost figures are not correct.



  • frozenfirevr
    frozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    +1 please remove it... It is just as unnecessary as Black Ice Damage Resistance, which you have removed. Let us decide if we actually need the EFR, allow us to fail, learn, and adapt. I was talking to a couple of friends who saw the patch notes and decided to abandon the campaign since they don't want to buy Frostborn gear, have to continuously farm VB, and didn't get the boots they wanted. And these are 4.2k people. Please remove it for everyone's sake @asterdahl @strumslinger.
    FrozenFire
  • diogene0
    diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    No. I'd rather play with people who are OK to farm to improve their characters, since they're most likely not going to be a liability. We're talking about the hardest piece of content ever made, not about a place made to enjoy the scenery.

    What I want to avoid at all cost is the repetition of mod 6 dungeons, ie having people who apparently meet the gear requirements but do not meet the skill requirements at all. Making a group was a true nightmare. At least, having that much everfrost resist is a token of their dedication and ability to take care of their characters, and not waiting to be served by others. :)

    This is why it should remain for the next ~3 months. There should be room for a carry once the content has been mastered.
  • ironzerg79
    ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    For the record, I like the idea of needing specific gear for specific challenges. To me, it feels very much like a D&D game if adventurers have to collect certain items to overcome greater threats in the world.

    But to that point, the adventurers should also be able to decide whether or not to go after those items, or just meet the challenge head-on.

    I think Everfrost should be a lethal mechanic inside Frostfang that's extremely difficult to just ignore, likely necessitating some sort of strategy to protect yourself from it. But I also think those strategies should be left up to the place, and you shouldn't assign an arbitrary requirement to enter the dungeon.

    Heck, I'm a proponent of removing any sort of restriction at all (except the campaign unlocks) for those choosing to queue in Private groups.
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  • craolus
    craolus Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    I feel bad for the artists and devs who made the dungeon. So few people will enjoy the fruits of their labors.
  • deusazza
    deusazza Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited August 2016


    Because we are allowed to question their thought process, by your logic, ever bug/flaw and wrongly laid out item, would be ok, because its in the game.


    with your logic wrong is considered right? why do you even consider a bug/flaw to be ok? spin it the way you like but these gears "completes" the dungeon.

    even with your legacy 4k il wont survive a pug. why even bother then?
  • valwryn
    valwryn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,620 Arc User
    Those just barely over 3.1k IL will be thankful you have at least 29% resistance. The ones near 4k IL can survive without, which are probably the ones here screaming, which I understand. :o
  • kvet
    kvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    I accidentally picked the wrong option - my vote is to remove it for all the same reasons they removed black ice resistance requirements. They were stupid and no one liked them. I was shocked to see them bring that mechanic back.

    I don't plan to use the PvE gear - I hated being addicted to black ice to keep my Purified set empowered, and I'm not falling into that trap for a few extra stats, especially when the voninblod addiction will be even WORSE since the empowerment doesn't last nearly as long as black ice did. I'm 1/4 of the way to Prestige - to heck with all this Relic garbage, it's unnecessary anyway. If that means I never step foot into FB... I guess that's what it means. Correction: If that means I don't step foot into FB until cryptic comes to it's senses and removes the idiotic resistance requirement there like it did for KR, then that's what it means.
  • grogthemagnif
    grogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,611 Arc User
    I have no toons that are 3100, but I'm working on that. Leave as is as an incentive to get the new armor.
  • diogene0
    diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited August 2016

    EDIT: I'm also a fan of removing iLevel requirements for Private Queues, too...since we're on the subject. If people willingly chose to put together an undergeared group, go for it! In fact, that might be the best solution overall for everything...if Fangbreak Island had the GS and EF requirements for the Public Queue, but removed them for the Private Queues, I'd see that as a huge win.

    This is a good idea, however, having played the new campaign a bit, while I agree on the ilevel requirements, EF resistance does make sense, unlike black ice requirements. We're not talking about small figures but about 25% extra damage if i remember correctly.

    In addition to that I've always been lobbying for various tiers of content for everyone on this forum, which means that some pieces of content aren't for everyone, at least in theory.

    Why not asking for a lower tier version of that dungeon for people who don't want to bother with the requirements instead?
  • lirithiel
    lirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they remove the extra BI damage mobs dealt in IWD and KR and not just the BI resistance? Mobs just hit harder there now, I don't think it has anything to do with the BI damage mechanic they originally introduced.
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  • mamalion1234
    mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,379 Arc User

    For the record, I like the idea of needing specific gear for specific challenges. To me, it feels very much like a D&D game if adventurers have to collect certain items to overcome greater threats in the world.

    But to that point, the adventurers should also be able to decide whether or not to go after those items, or just meet the challenge head-on.

    I think Everfrost should be a lethal mechanic inside Frostfang that's extremely difficult to just ignore, likely necessitating some sort of strategy to protect yourself from it. But I also think those strategies should be left up to the place, and you shouldn't assign an arbitrary requirement to enter the dungeon.

    Heck, I'm a proponent of removing any sort of restriction at all (except the campaign unlocks) for those choosing to queue in Private groups.

    FROstborn armor has everfrost resist on it ?