patcherrkmMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 127Arc User
I've seen HR's on test do well. I've whitnessed multiple builds. It's a wonderful thing. I hope the devs dont listen to trolls and instead look at the numbers and actually watch some matchups in icewind on test.
With specific rotation i was able to proc Piercing Blades 10 times in one second. QQs are about PvP because we're truely backing to the module 4.
Like @deathdealersera said it's a issue made by Blade Hurricane interaction in the most case. Forest ghost, rapid strikes and usage a fox and boar in good timing are other things why Piercing Blades proccing rapidly many times in short time.
<That doesn't say nothing, you can do that with gushing wound, but all hits would be for pve and for about 500 to 1000 damage which is about the same piercing damage that Shadow opportunity deal 10k piercing damage for a second.
As feedback, i would like to suggest that Flurry activates when a melee encounter is up, not when you press the button, as you can lose valuave miliseconds of flurry and also this can also be glitched, because you can cancel long casting encounter like Rain of swords and still get flurry, can do this many times as long you have enough stamina to cancel encounters. I know this won't be happening soon because i'ts in another department, but the animation of split strike is tedious to use, is like a headache and considering that final feat of Combat (which should be the most important one) is nothing but at wills, it would be nice if you consider to rework it to be somewhat different, theres tons of ideas to make an attack based on blades.
I know this won't be happening soon because i'ts in another department, but the animation of split strike is tedious to use, is like a headache and considering that final feat of Combat (which should be the most important one) is nothing but at wills, it would be nice if you consider to rework it to be somewhat different, theres tons of ideas to make an attack based on blades.
Yeah considering that melee at-wills are hugely important to Combat now, and Split Strike is the only melee AoE at-will avail to a Pathfinder, Split Strike needs a complete re-vamp imo.
Oh i did test, did you read my previous post?Ooops. In fact i tested the most agressive feat path pb + longshot, try disruptive shot and you'll understand why droping scything blades is so much worth.
GF shield blocks 80% of all incoming damage, A full pvp combat endgame will probably take down 80k at most with 1 rotation, having no stuns, because combat will barelly have stuns a GF can block at anytime, TR's dodge frame is probably the biggest in the game, 1 roll will extend almost a second after the roll has ended TR's have itc, courage breaker, bloodbath, dishearting strike, all powers that can mitigate damage or make the TR avoid taking it. DC, big **** dodges as well, bts, profectic action, warding flare, divine armour. I could picked other classes and im sure i would find ways to lower the damage, maybe you should teach our opponents to play before you start.
OFC there are a lot of ways to not take any damage from any sources! So lets give GOD damage to all classes without diffetent? And ppl will stay alive while they dodging 100% of skills. Its seems so terrible. BTW GWF/CW/ SW have no chances to stay alive > then 5 sec vs this PD. So u mean, should they just run away? GWF is dying in 5 sec (only by PD) if he got controlled for once / or HR went for his spin. And other classes have the same chances! HR should be amazingly stupid to never hit 2-3 skills and some rigth-clicks in the enemy face to kill them. And besides melee tree have a lot of survivability to just stay alive for a long time to wait a good moment for destruction his enemy.
I dont know why u still defend PD, because its one of the worst NW mechanics.
And ofc other classes have a lot of OP things, but (REPEAT) its not a reason to gave more broken things to others. Everything has its time.
Gushind Wound not proccing at all that hard Piercing Blades as you thinking, just compare this with a easy test by comparing Seeker DoT and PB procs. Remember that i achieved 10 procs of PB in one second by same Blade Hurricane which give me 25K damage then count next damage from Fox, Boar and Maruder. Well, laughable numbers for PvE but QQs are redirected to the PvP. I'm not playing PvP anymore by a various annoying things but just for yourself recover a memories from the module 4 and think what can happen in future without adjusting a few things.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited August 2016
Just revert PB change and rename it like they originally were going to do. Too much HAMSTER gets ruined in the name of that unfixable nightmare called pvp in this game.
And increase duration of Flurry at the cost of some reduction in damage/reduce CD of certain powers.
Feedback: Marauder scape: cooldown is too high right now for what it does, since it would be counterproductive to add charges on it, I think it would be a nice change to add a effect like everytime we get hit, the CD on it is reduced, also damage would be beneficial to be in cone line and be added at least a small slow/snare to enemies hit Archery capstone still feels pretty subpar with everything else, I suggest adding a X amount of extra critical severity to prey targets that are hit with a critical, or/and a area of effect X amount of damage when we hit our prey target. Stillness of the forest could have a effect like everytime you get hit a X amount of stamina is regenerated, to balance we beeing in melee range an loosing the critical bonus Throw caution at it's current state is useless to ranged gameplay, suggestion is to remove target lock for it Rising focus could stack to a maximum of 5 times, favoring longer encounters Aspect of the falcon rank 4 could add 2ft instead of 1ft more, so at max range it's possible to get that last +1% damage
Please consider reviewing the artifact powers. With the changes to some of the powers, some of the artifact boosts are no longer practical. And some haven't been useful for a long, long time anyways...
Mainhand -> Unsure if the Aimed Shot power (+40% movement for 5 seconds after an Aimed Shot) is too powerful. It's *fantastic* for PvE, allowing the archer to move about on the battlefield and avoid red AoEs much more easily. In PvP, however? Could be a bit much, stopping every couple of seconds to channel a quick Aimed Shot, then running off again. May need testing.
Offhand -> Aspect of the Falcon. 70' seems downright silly. Few people would sit at this range as you'd be out of range for most buffs, combat advantage (if using Pack), and so on. Maybe reconsider this to something a bit more practical? Similarly, Battlehoned (+100 regen) and Stormstep (+150 recovery) are both pretty weak and could use buffing and/or replacing.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Mainhand -> Unsure if the Aimed Shot power (+40% movement for 5 seconds after an Aimed Shot) is too powerful. It's *fantastic* for PvE, allowing the archer to move about on the battlefield and avoid red AoEs much more easily. In PvP, however? Could be a bit much, stopping every couple of seconds to channel a quick Aimed Shot, then running off again. May need testing.
Heh, that puny archer needs that speed to bolt the hell out of there. He's nothing, he's dog meat, he's a tasty treat for just about any class when they close in for the kill.
Oh i did test, did you read my previous post?Ooops. In fact i tested the most agressive feat path pb + longshot, try disruptive shot and you'll understand why droping scything blades is so much worth.
GF shield blocks 80% of all incoming damage, A full pvp combat endgame will probably take down 80k at most with 1 rotation, having no stuns, because combat will barelly have stuns a GF can block at anytime, TR's dodge frame is probably the biggest in the game, 1 roll will extend almost a second after the roll has ended TR's have itc, courage breaker, bloodbath, dishearting strike, all powers that can mitigate damage or make the TR avoid taking it. DC, big **** dodges as well, bts, profectic action, warding flare, divine armour. I could picked other classes and im sure i would find ways to lower the damage, maybe you should teach our opponents to play before you start.
OFC there are a lot of ways to not take any damage from any sources! So lets give GOD damage to all classes without diffetent? And ppl will stay alive while they dodging 100% of skills. Its seems so terrible. BTW GWF/CW/ SW have no chances to stay alive > then 5 sec vs this PD. So u mean, should they just run away? GWF is dying in 5 sec (only by PD) if he got controlled for once / or HR went for his spin. And other classes have the same chances! HR should be amazingly stupid to never hit 2-3 skills and some rigth-clicks in the enemy face to kill them. And besides melee tree have a lot of survivability to just stay alive for a long time to wait a good moment for destruction his enemy.
I dont know why u still defend PD, because its one of the worst NW mechanics.
And ofc other classes have a lot of OP things, but (REPEAT) its not a reason to gave more broken things to others. Everything has its time.
I agree that PD is one of the worst NW mechanics but that's about all I agree with you on.
BTW GWF/CW/ SW have no chances to stay alive > then 5 sec vs this PD. So u mean, should they just run away? Well what do you do against Gfs that one rotate you? Against Tr that you don't even see before you die unless they cc you before the kill?
You make it sound like a Hr can just walk in and kill anybody in 5 sec flat and nothing can be done about it which ofc is far from the truth. Damage reducing abilities will make a difference, am pretty sure OP will stay immortal and can prevent Hr from killing their team members same goes for Dc.
1-1 again you might be right but pvp matches are to my knowledge 5-5 and even if you claim that combat Hr can have high survivability are that comparable with today's Cws/Trs/Gwfs/Gfs? Most likely the answer to that is a big NO.
Again how many active bis Hr are running around in pvp 4-5 ? compared to Trs and Gfs 40-50? Is this even a valid issue to put time on? Let's say it is to remove or lessen the PB you need to compensate it with increasing the damage output somehow, if not once again the Hr combat path will be left in the dust for what 4-5 pvping Hrs sake ??
In my mind it has to go live and tested unless the devs has time to compensate the loss of damage removing PB will cause and frankly I doubt this is realistic.
@relaxinor wrote in Hr forum that she thinks that Trapper will continue to be the meta for PvP Hrs and I agree on that, the controll and added survivability it gives + the extra damage from longshot and new aimed shot is just better overall for capping the nodes.
Feedback; Archery need some form of cc removal/ bit better survivability
Archery capstone is still to weak - added crit severity has been suggested, I think slow x% stacking up to 5 times can be a valid option also. I also think that one target is to weak adding a second with 40-70% effect would bring it more in line with other capstones.
Boar charge need to have it's animation reworked
Bear trap is just not working need larger aoe + slow effect or just remade to something useful
Splitt shot need at least 20% more damage
Marauders escape need either cc removal or cc immunity frame
@relaxinor wrote in Hr forum that she thinks that Trapper will continue to be the meta for PvP Hrs and I agree on that, the controll and added survivability it gives + the extra damage from longshot and new aimed shot is just better overall for capping the nodes.
Don't put words in my mouth, please. I posted that before the combat change, and I even posted after saying combat is definitely the meta now. Trapper does not compare. Combat needs to be toned down now.
Also @deathdealersera saying BH does more damage than PB in PvP is hilarious. PB does more than the initial hit does 90% of the time, and PB procs from BH so unless your build sucks, you'll never get more damage from BH. Realistically, damage is 60% from PB, and 20% from BH.
Another thing of note, this change to Piercing Blades means it's a lot weaker in PvE now, since it isn't affected by many debuff/buffs, as I mentioned in an earlier post. This is as much as a 50% damage nerf in good parties honestly.
@relaxinor wrote in Hr forum that she thinks that Trapper will continue to be the meta for PvP Hrs and I agree on that, the controll and added survivability it gives + the extra damage from longshot and new aimed shot is just better overall for capping the nodes.
Don't put words in my mouth, please. I posted that before the combat change, and I even posted after saying combat is definitely the meta now. Trapper does not compare. Combat needs to be toned down now.
First I apologize that I got you wrong.
Didn't see your comment about meele so it's not like I put "words In your mouth" on purpose, just wrote what I saw you had written, no harm ment.
You might be right, you usually are but not always -:), but my guess is that trapper will still turn out to be the most used path and if PB is nerfed that will be so even more. Let's see what the devs say and take it from there. What can be said has been said about this topic by now.
I say this for combat it is fun but still is not strong enough over all for pve and pvp. So take HR balance live early then see how it works out combat is good but still the Bis GF my level can kill me spent all day in IWD still died vs my level and above as well as i killed others. We are still not on level field against tr or GF . we just cant recover fast enough as combat I find my self on defense mostly waiting for encounters to come off cool down. quick attacks disrupt several of our encounters and pg only hits on initial hit then does no more damage and has a long cool down so its not good in the rotation either so once others learn our rotations combat will be in trouble so I don't see any need to change combat for the worst
note in live I will play trapper due to I pvp and pve and it still is what fits my play style
@ralexinor I have seen that PB is taking into account the 65% damage boost from BH and not to forget the perma Flurry obtained from PG. Making it a pain, hence once the HR gets in range and spams Split Strike, they eat the person alive. This in all honestly seems like a major Problem.
Yes, PB is looking as the major Culprit, but its the Damage bonuses triggering before hand making At-wills do tons of damage. These buffs would definitely include Battlecrazed's new mechanic + BH.
I do realize that you know more about exactly how it is working, and I did go complete combat and saw the above mentioned Damage scenarios.
I am not defending combat, merely suggesting that all damage boost to melee encounters Should not be taken into Account by PB. That should be ok.
Or the other most loved option as always is removing Piercing damage.
overall how is the hr by itself? how does it fair compared to other classes? how does it fair against other classes?
At the moment, HR combat is overperforming. Trapper still seems OK for PvP and pretty good for PvE as last mod. Archery is amazing with the damage boost, but ofcourse lacks survival. All attributes cannot be seen in all the specs. But HR is getting there, slowly and steadily.
I have seen that PB is taking into account the 65% damage boost from BH and not to forget the perma Flurry obtained from PG. Making it a pain, hence once the HR gets in range and spams Split Strike, they eat the person alive. This in all honestly seems like a major Problem.
Yes, PB is looking as the major Culprit, but its the Damage bonuses triggering before hand making At-wills do tons of damage. These buffs would definitely include Battlecrazed's new mechanic + BH.
As I said earlier in one of my posts, Split Strike does 40k damage when you include Flurry + Piercing Blades. The capstone is honestly fine, it's Piercing blades that's the problem. I was testing Combat before the Piercing Blades change because I knew it'd be too strong, and Combat wasn't doing nearly as much damage.
BH is not a "damage boost" feature, so to speak. It deals 2 additional hits each at 165% damage of the original hit's pre-mitigation damage, and is affected by damage buffs and damage resist effects. If you want to call it a damage boost, then it's a 330% damage boost to any at-will attack. This is fine. In general, it's roughly an overall 20-30% damage boost not including Piercing Blades, which is relatively weak compared to other capstones in the game, especially Trapper and Archery. Combat should be dealing more damage than Trapper, but less than Archery. Trapper is 30%, Archery is 50%. Other classes have similar or better capstones.
You misunderstand about damage bonuses. Every path has these, and every path needs these. It's nothing to do with damage bonuses. Those are perfectly balanced - it's the fact that Piercing Blades takes pre-mitigation damage now, because if we call the overall damage % of a skill the "effectiveness", as ACT calls it, in PvP assuming 45% tenacity, you will do a maximum of 55% effectiveness on a non-crit and 30.25% on a crit, assuming no post-damage buffs (longstrider, ITF, etc.) or direct DR reductions (bronzewood, mark, etc.). Most of the time you will do less than 55%. Piercing Blades is typically always 100% effectiveness, because it's not affected by tenacity or DR or even deflect, only direct damage decreases such GF's Block, Cold Shoulder and so on. This means that Piercing Blades is always technically the original skill doing "50% effectiveness", so instead of being a 50% damage increase, at minimum this is a 100% damage increase, and in most cases is actually as much as a 200% or more increase.
Piercing Blades is the problem here. Piercing damage has no place in a balanced PvP environment - but it's a bit hard to call the current state of PvP that anyway.
I am not defending combat, merely suggesting that all damage boost to melee encounters Should not be taken into Account by PB. That should be ok.
Or the other most loved option as always is removing Piercing damage.
I'm fairly sure this is impossible because of the way the game (and engine) works. There's 2 main categories of buffs:
a) pre-mitigation damage buffs b) post-mitigation damage buffs
Pre-mitigation damage buffs are things like feats generally, I think also feytouched though I haven't tried to confirm this yet, critical severity, and some class features like Aspect of the Serpent. This is what is considered a "base damage buff", because it affects the "base damage" of a power. In PvP, the pre-mitigation damage number is typically always the higher of the two.
The latter category, post-mitigation damage buffs, are generally buffs that are party-wide, typically from encounters, as well as defense debuffs on targets, such as Plaguefire, Mark, Bronzewood. This still affects your base damage, but it shows as a separate number in the logs, such as "Player X deals [POST-MITIGATION] ([PRE-MITIGATION]) damage to you with X attack". In PvE, the post-mitigation damage number is typically always the higher of the two.
I'm not 100% sure on this (I'd have to research a bit further), but self-buffs are generally categorised into the former category, pre-mitigation damage buffs, while party specific buffs such as Longstrider and ITF are categorised into the latter. I'm not sure what defines whether something affects the pre- or post-mitigation damage, but I assume there'll be some sort of flag, which the devs would have to change that could potentially cause all sorts of whacky interactions.
Honestly, for the sake of both PvE and PvP, it'd be better to revert the change, as it's too strong in PvP and it makes Combat even weaker in PvE, but if it was at all possible, perhaps make it post-mitigation in PvE, and pre-mitigation in PvP but halved in effectiveness, so 25% Piercing damage instead of 50%. The best way to test this would be to take 2-3 points in Piercing Blades and see how effective that is compared to 5 points.
I'm honestly past the point of really caring right now, so I'm not really giving much feedback right now, sorry. Only posting to give explanations. I'm not trying to attack you or anything @deathdealersera but just trying to give thorough explanations.
As I said earlier in one of my posts, Split Strike does 40k damage when you include Flurry + Piercing Blades. The capstone is honestly fine, it's Piercing blades that's the problem. I was testing Combat before the Piercing Blades change because I knew it'd be too strong, and Combat wasn't doing nearly as much damage.
BH is not a "damage boost" feature, so to speak. It deals 2 additional hits each at 165% damage of the original hit's pre-mitigation damage, and is affected by damage buffs and damage resist effects. If you want to call it a damage boost, then it's a 330% damage boost to any at-will attack. This is fine. In general, it's roughly an overall 20-30% damage boost not including Piercing Blades, which is relatively weak compared to other capstones in the game, especially Trapper and Archery. Combat should be dealing more damage than Trapper, but less than Archery. Trapper is 30%, Archery is 50%. Other classes have similar or better capstones.
Piercing Blades is the problem here. Piercing damage has no place in a balanced PvP environment - but it's a bit hard to call the current state of PvP that anyway.
Honestly, for the sake of both PvE and PvP, it'd be better to revert the change, as it's too strong in PvP and it makes Combat even weaker in PvE, but if it was at all possible, perhaps make it post-mitigation in PvE, and pre-mitigation in PvP but halved in effectiveness, so 25% Piercing damage instead of 50%. The best way to test this would be to take 2-3 points in Piercing Blades and see how effective that is compared to 5 points.
Thankyou. Finally a proper diagnose of the situation is welcome.
And I do agree with the Post Mitigation Change with PB after this effective Explanation. The change would probably be welcome. The change which could be done for PvP/PvE together and reducing effectiveness could be possibly changed. But lets hope this change, IF brought about must follow PvP mechanics in Domination + GG + SH Siege, siege being a huge problem as Active bonuses from pets is more like a PvE based mechanic.
And considering from the mentioned changes being brought about that a new event for either 1v1 or 2v2 scenarios is being brought about, these mechanics would have to respect PvP boundaries rather than PvE boundaries.
> Yes, PB is looking as the major Culprit, but its the Damage bonuses triggering before hand making At-wills do tons of damage. These buffs would definitely include Battlecrazed's new mechanic + BH.
Piercing Blades is the major culprit, its not just lookin as, its 100% , having your atwills/encounters dealing more damage are supposed to,, they deserve to deal even higher damage.
Piercing Blades is out of whack, it deservers a ICD and a damage cap.
Well ICD (OR) Damage cap to this would be welcome Considering you allow it to be the way it is right now. However it wont be welcome if reverting PB to its old damage mechanic is taken into consideration.
Say it deals half the damage...as for now to hit hard enough to have the spike of gfs and self buffed gwf or trs SE you have to crit PG and hope you are playing against someone who does not know how to use his/ her utilities atm...have it halved...you will have to meet all the above conditions not to kill anyone again, with no control on top of that and too long cooldowns to double the combo before healings kick in and opponent recovers...then what? You won't do nothing again...just being in a spot where archery is not viable due to pvp and its internal mechanics, melee it's some sort of tank that does not run nor kill with no control and trapper that will have trouble with rotations after the third one...so where do we want to go right now with all of these things? Besides...how come that ppl come in here screaming nerf nerf nerf and these suggestions pollutes the thread and are still here...but if someone kindly says gwfs self buffs are way to high for pvp and gf can still one rotate with little to no effort in pvp those posts won't last more than 10 minutes?
the damage cap for piercing blades needs to be there mostly for the group fights where you get buffed, but that doesn't mean you will perform less, while you fight alone the damage will give you variations between 1-10.000 , while fightin in a group and you benefit over the buffs you will have higher variations that are close to 10.000 rather than having them be close to 1.
If they add damage caps, they need to add them for everyone. Including GWFs. No more super-high IBS hits.
So the big idea here is don't let PB go live but don't fix GWF TR OR GF. who do so much more than HR and as BIS preview trapper I still can only hope to last against these 3 to hold a node cause cant even dent these . The best I can hope for is hold them from capture of node
Feed Back
Trapper still has no significant damage for pvp . Elven Battle still only takes hit and no root damage.
For trapper consider add when capstone activated damage doubled for PVP only. trapper is good in PVE
Aimed shot is nice for pve but has no use in PVP
comment Nice job Amenar builds are looking much better
ok i hope you realize that what i said is a far better solution than what it was presented so far?
other suggestions, that aren't mine were:
1. make PB be 25% 2. revert PB back to be post-mitigation 3. PB is finet, it's the powers damage that triggers them, nerf : PG , BH
THESE were ALL suggestions from Hunter Ranger Players that i read so far, i don't think they are entirely bad suggestions, but i think my suggestions is way better .
but since i was the only guy that used words such as LIMIT, this KEYWORD for some of you got TRIGGERED by this and about the messenger who wrote, therefor all these attacks towards the class i am playin'.
So to understand how this goes we ALL admited that with the recent patch note Piercing Blades is too much , so you tell me what i said will make Piercing Blades be less effective than other 3 suggestions that were mentioned?
i belive it will not make it less effective than the 3 suggestions, and actually will have some resonable damage, and also it LEAVES MORE ROOM for the encounters/powers to be BUFFED, while leaving PB still be 50% of the premitigation.
Understood ?
We must be reading 2 different threads. The majority I've posts that *I've* read were that, based on testing, Piercing Blades simply gave HRs some teeth - much like many other classes. Testing against various classes on PvP showed that they were pretty evenly matched, and that Piercing Blades was only overpowered on a few rare occasions with super buffs. Only 1 or 2 posters seem to think it's in need of adjusting, yourself included (who mains a GWF, as far as I can tell, so it's interesting you're dominating this thread with nerfing suggestions. Bias much?).
The vast majority of posters here who have offered suggestions for balance, tend to preface it with "*IF* these needs adjusting...", which is key.
I think Piercing damage should be handled by a global procedure that could be something like this.
If Piercing is triggered then:
if opponent is a monster (PVE content) the power apply 100% damage.
if opponent is another class (PvP content) the power apply 50% damage.
if opponent is another class (PvP content) and the power trigger DOTs then apply 25% damage.
This way whenever a class has a Piercing feature, the power triggered goes trough the above principle, which should be fair for all classes and situations.
Comments
As feedback, i would like to suggest that Flurry activates when a melee encounter is up, not when you press the button, as you can lose valuave miliseconds of flurry and also this can also be glitched, because you can cancel long casting encounter like Rain of swords and still get flurry, can do this many times as long you have enough stamina to cancel encounters.
I know this won't be happening soon because i'ts in another department, but the animation of split strike is tedious to use, is like a headache and considering that final feat of Combat (which should be the most important one) is nothing but at wills, it would be nice if you consider to rework it to be somewhat different, theres tons of ideas to make an attack based on blades.
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
BTW GWF/CW/ SW have no chances to stay alive > then 5 sec vs this PD. So u mean, should they just run away?
GWF is dying in 5 sec (only by PD) if he got controlled for once / or HR went for his spin. And other classes have the same chances! HR should be amazingly stupid to never hit 2-3 skills and some rigth-clicks in the enemy face to kill them. And besides melee tree have a lot of survivability to just stay alive for a long time to wait a good moment for destruction his enemy.
I dont know why u still defend PD, because its one of the worst NW mechanics.
And ofc other classes have a lot of OP things, but (REPEAT) its not a reason to gave more broken things to others. Everything has its time.
Gushind Wound not proccing at all that hard Piercing Blades as you thinking, just compare this with a easy test by comparing Seeker DoT and PB procs. Remember that i achieved 10 procs of PB in one second by same Blade Hurricane which give me 25K damage then count next damage from Fox, Boar and Maruder. Well, laughable numbers for PvE but QQs are redirected to the PvP. I'm not playing PvP anymore by a various annoying things but just for yourself recover a memories from the module 4 and think what can happen in future without adjusting a few things.
And increase duration of Flurry at the cost of some reduction in damage/reduce CD of certain powers.
Marauder scape: cooldown is too high right now for what it does, since it would be counterproductive to add charges on it, I think it would be a nice change to add a effect like everytime we get hit, the CD on it is reduced, also damage would be beneficial to be in cone line and be added at least a small slow/snare to enemies hit
Archery capstone still feels pretty subpar with everything else, I suggest adding a X amount of extra critical severity to prey targets that are hit with a critical, or/and a area of effect X amount of damage when we hit our prey target.
Stillness of the forest could have a effect like everytime you get hit a X amount of stamina is regenerated, to balance we beeing in melee range an loosing the critical bonus
Throw caution at it's current state is useless to ranged gameplay, suggestion is to remove target lock for it
Rising focus could stack to a maximum of 5 times, favoring longer encounters
Aspect of the falcon rank 4 could add 2ft instead of 1ft more, so at max range it's possible to get that last +1% damage
Mainhand -> Unsure if the Aimed Shot power (+40% movement for 5 seconds after an Aimed Shot) is too powerful. It's *fantastic* for PvE, allowing the archer to move about on the battlefield and avoid red AoEs much more easily. In PvP, however? Could be a bit much, stopping every couple of seconds to channel a quick Aimed Shot, then running off again. May need testing.
Offhand -> Aspect of the Falcon. 70' seems downright silly. Few people would sit at this range as you'd be out of range for most buffs, combat advantage (if using Pack), and so on. Maybe reconsider this to something a bit more practical? Similarly, Battlehoned (+100 regen) and Stormstep (+150 recovery) are both pretty weak and could use buffing and/or replacing.
BTW GWF/CW/ SW have no chances to stay alive > then 5 sec vs this PD. So u mean, should they just run away?
Well what do you do against Gfs that one rotate you?
Against Tr that you don't even see before you die unless they cc you before the kill?
You make it sound like a Hr can just walk in and kill anybody in 5 sec flat and nothing can be done about it which ofc is far from the truth.
Damage reducing abilities will make a difference, am pretty sure OP will stay immortal and can prevent Hr from killing their team members same goes for Dc.
1-1 again you might be right but pvp matches are to my knowledge 5-5 and even if you claim that combat Hr can have high survivability are that comparable with today's Cws/Trs/Gwfs/Gfs? Most likely the answer to that is a big NO.
Again how many active bis Hr are running around in pvp 4-5 ? compared to Trs and Gfs 40-50? Is this even a valid issue to put time on?
Let's say it is to remove or lessen the PB you need to compensate it with increasing the damage output somehow, if not once again the Hr combat path will be left in the dust for what 4-5 pvping Hrs sake ??
In my mind it has to go live and tested unless the devs has time to compensate the loss of damage removing PB will cause and frankly I doubt this is realistic.
@relaxinor wrote in Hr forum that she thinks that Trapper will continue to be the meta for PvP Hrs and I agree on that, the controll and added survivability it gives + the extra damage from longshot and new aimed shot is just better overall for capping the nodes.
Feedback;
Archery need some form of cc removal/ bit better survivability
Archery capstone is still to weak - added crit severity has been suggested, I think slow x% stacking up to 5 times can be a valid option also. I also think that one target is to weak adding a second with 40-70% effect would bring it more in line with other capstones.
Boar charge need to have it's animation reworked
Bear trap is just not working need larger aoe + slow effect or just remade to something useful
Splitt shot need at least 20% more damage
Marauders escape need either cc removal or cc immunity frame
Also @deathdealersera saying BH does more damage than PB in PvP is hilarious. PB does more than the initial hit does 90% of the time, and PB procs from BH so unless your build sucks, you'll never get more damage from BH. Realistically, damage is 60% from PB, and 20% from BH.
Another thing of note, this change to Piercing Blades means it's a lot weaker in PvE now, since it isn't affected by many debuff/buffs, as I mentioned in an earlier post. This is as much as a 50% damage nerf in good parties honestly.
Didn't see your comment about meele so it's not like I put "words In your mouth" on purpose, just wrote what I saw you had written, no harm ment.
You might be right, you usually are but not always -:), but my guess is that trapper will still turn out to be the most used path and if PB is nerfed that will be so even more. Let's see what the devs say and take it from there. What can be said has been said about this topic by now.
note in live I will play trapper due to I pvp and pve and it still is what fits my play style
how does it fair compared to other classes?
how does it fair against other classes?
I have seen that PB is taking into account the 65% damage boost from BH and not to forget the perma Flurry obtained from PG. Making it a pain, hence once the HR gets in range and spams Split Strike, they eat the person alive.
This in all honestly seems like a major Problem.
Yes, PB is looking as the major Culprit, but its the Damage bonuses triggering before hand making At-wills do tons of damage. These buffs would definitely include Battlecrazed's new mechanic + BH.
I do realize that you know more about exactly how it is working, and I did go complete combat and saw the above mentioned Damage scenarios.
I am not defending combat, merely suggesting that all damage boost to melee encounters Should not be taken into Account by PB. That should be ok.
Or the other most loved option as always is removing Piercing damage. At the moment, HR combat is overperforming. Trapper still seems OK for PvP and pretty good for PvE as last mod. Archery is amazing with the damage boost, but ofcourse lacks survival. All attributes cannot be seen in all the specs. But HR is getting there, slowly and steadily.
TR + HR + OP + SW
Nikostratos
BH is not a "damage boost" feature, so to speak. It deals 2 additional hits each at 165% damage of the original hit's pre-mitigation damage, and is affected by damage buffs and damage resist effects. If you want to call it a damage boost, then it's a 330% damage boost to any at-will attack. This is fine. In general, it's roughly an overall 20-30% damage boost not including Piercing Blades, which is relatively weak compared to other capstones in the game, especially Trapper and Archery. Combat should be dealing more damage than Trapper, but less than Archery. Trapper is 30%, Archery is 50%. Other classes have similar or better capstones.
You misunderstand about damage bonuses. Every path has these, and every path needs these. It's nothing to do with damage bonuses. Those are perfectly balanced - it's the fact that Piercing Blades takes pre-mitigation damage now, because if we call the overall damage % of a skill the "effectiveness", as ACT calls it, in PvP assuming 45% tenacity, you will do a maximum of 55% effectiveness on a non-crit and 30.25% on a crit, assuming no post-damage buffs (longstrider, ITF, etc.) or direct DR reductions (bronzewood, mark, etc.). Most of the time you will do less than 55%. Piercing Blades is typically always 100% effectiveness, because it's not affected by tenacity or DR or even deflect, only direct damage decreases such GF's Block, Cold Shoulder and so on. This means that Piercing Blades is always technically the original skill doing "50% effectiveness", so instead of being a 50% damage increase, at minimum this is a 100% damage increase, and in most cases is actually as much as a 200% or more increase.
Piercing Blades is the problem here. Piercing damage has no place in a balanced PvP environment - but it's a bit hard to call the current state of PvP that anyway. I'm fairly sure this is impossible because of the way the game (and engine) works. There's 2 main categories of buffs:
a) pre-mitigation damage buffs
b) post-mitigation damage buffs
Pre-mitigation damage buffs are things like feats generally, I think also feytouched though I haven't tried to confirm this yet, critical severity, and some class features like Aspect of the Serpent. This is what is considered a "base damage buff", because it affects the "base damage" of a power. In PvP, the pre-mitigation damage number is typically always the higher of the two.
The latter category, post-mitigation damage buffs, are generally buffs that are party-wide, typically from encounters, as well as defense debuffs on targets, such as Plaguefire, Mark, Bronzewood. This still affects your base damage, but it shows as a separate number in the logs, such as "Player X deals [POST-MITIGATION] ([PRE-MITIGATION]) damage to you with X attack". In PvE, the post-mitigation damage number is typically always the higher of the two.
I'm not 100% sure on this (I'd have to research a bit further), but self-buffs are generally categorised into the former category, pre-mitigation damage buffs, while party specific buffs such as Longstrider and ITF are categorised into the latter. I'm not sure what defines whether something affects the pre- or post-mitigation damage, but I assume there'll be some sort of flag, which the devs would have to change that could potentially cause all sorts of whacky interactions.
Honestly, for the sake of both PvE and PvP, it'd be better to revert the change, as it's too strong in PvP and it makes Combat even weaker in PvE, but if it was at all possible, perhaps make it post-mitigation in PvE, and pre-mitigation in PvP but halved in effectiveness, so 25% Piercing damage instead of 50%. The best way to test this would be to take 2-3 points in Piercing Blades and see how effective that is compared to 5 points.
I'm honestly past the point of really caring right now, so I'm not really giving much feedback right now, sorry. Only posting to give explanations. I'm not trying to attack you or anything @deathdealersera but just trying to give thorough explanations.
And I do agree with the Post Mitigation Change with PB after this effective Explanation. The change would probably be welcome. The change which could be done for PvP/PvE together and reducing effectiveness could be possibly changed. But lets hope this change, IF brought about must follow PvP mechanics in Domination + GG + SH Siege, siege being a huge problem as Active bonuses from pets is more like a PvE based mechanic.
And considering from the mentioned changes being brought about that a new event for either 1v1 or 2v2 scenarios is being brought about, these mechanics would have to respect PvP boundaries rather than PvE boundaries. Well ICD (OR) Damage cap to this would be welcome Considering you allow it to be the way it is right now.
However it wont be welcome if reverting PB to its old damage mechanic is taken into consideration.
TR + HR + OP + SW
Nikostratos
@rayrdan
-piercing dmg should respect tenacity (same tr's shocking execution and any source of piercing dmg) this will be enough
Including GWFs. No more super-high IBS hits.
You ok with that?
Feed Back
Trapper still has no significant damage for pvp . Elven Battle still only takes hit and no root damage.
For trapper consider add when capstone activated damage doubled for PVP only. trapper is good in PVE
Aimed shot is nice for pve but has no use in PVP
comment
Nice job Amenar builds are looking much better
Only 1 or 2 posters seem to think it's in need of adjusting, yourself included (who mains a GWF, as far as I can tell, so it's interesting you're dominating this thread with nerfing suggestions. Bias much?).
The vast majority of posters here who have offered suggestions for balance, tend to preface it with "*IF* these needs adjusting...", which is key.
I think Piercing damage should be handled by a global procedure that could be something like this.
If Piercing is triggered then:
- if opponent is a monster (PVE content) the power apply 100% damage.
- if opponent is another class (PvP content) the power apply 50% damage.
- if opponent is another class (PvP content) and the power trigger DOTs then apply 25% damage.
This way whenever a class has a Piercing feature, the power triggered goes trough the above principle, which should be fair for all classes and situations.