Thank you to OP and Sharp for testing. If I am right, two formulas can be unified as:
Base Damage*(1+0.15+1.X *(Attribute Bonus+Stat Bonus+Companion Bonus) + Y * Crit severity) with two flags X: 0 for without the boon, 1 for with the boon. Y: 0 for non crit, 1 for crit.
The crit severity messing around CA damage is really anti-intuitive. Crit severity should work multiplicative.
Thank you to OP and Sharp for testing. If I am right, two formulas can be unified as:
Base Damage*(1+0.15+1.X *(Attribute Bonus+Stat Bonus+Companion Bonus) + Y * Crit severity)
with two flags
X: 0 for without the boon, 1 for with the boon.
Y: 0 for non crit, 1 for crit.
The crit severity messing around CA damage is really anti-intuitive. Crit severity should work multiplicative.
Yes, it can be unified like that. The important thing to note is CA is no longer multiplicative on non crits, contrary to what it was when kaelac wrote his guide, which means that it was likely a bug and as of such, non crit builds do quite a bit less damage.
Now we just need to determine how Combatant's Maneuver factors in, if it ever works.
I will try and work it out some time this week on preview. I imagine it will do 1 of these things: 1) Base Damage*(1+Stuff+Combatant Maneuver+0.1(Stuff+Combatant's Maneuver) 2) Base Damage*(1+Stuff+Combatant's Maneuver*(Stuff)+0.1(Stuff)) 3) Base Damage*(1+Stuff+0.1(Stuff))*1.05 4) Be bugged and do nothing
I think option 1 will be the most likely, there are some other things that may occur which I have not listed, but I will leave checking those for if none of the first 3 work. If anyone wants a copy of the dagger, just say so and ill send you 1 on preview, it makes things so much easier to test
My search-fu isn't real strong and I'm having trouble finding how the X% more damage companions (e.g. archons, siege master) affect damage calculations. Are they only applied to the Base Damage calculation or are they applied after all other calculations (such as combat advantage) are calculated? Does someone have those, please? I'm thinking that I need to swap out my blink dog and intellect devourer for a siege master and owlbear cub (or maybe throw in the old erinyes) but I'd like to run some calculations ahead of time.
One other question that many of you probably think is obvios but does this particularly make a big difference to Renegade builds since CA is such a big part of it? Is the DPS gap between Thaum and Rene wider after this? I would think it does a bit at least.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
One other question that many of you probably think is obvios but does this particularly make a big difference to Renegade builds since CA is such a big part of it? Is the DPS gap between Thaum and Rene wider after this? I would think it does a bit at least.
So CA companions are dead in the water now? With there being only so many X% damage boosters, surely CA companions are still the next best thing?
No, critical severity are better. For all intents and purposes, CA companions may as well literally be adding to critical severity, only critical severity companions give you higher percentages.
So CA companions are dead in the water now? With there being only so many X% damage boosters, surely CA companions are still the next best thing?
No, critical severity are better. For all intents and purposes, CA companions may as well literally be adding to critical severity, only critical severity companions give you higher percentages.
So in Mod 10 even a rare Dancing Blade (3% Crit Sev) is better than epic CA companions (5% CA damage)?
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
So CA companions are dead in the water now? With there being only so many X% damage boosters, surely CA companions are still the next best thing?
No, critical severity are better. For all intents and purposes, CA companions may as well literally be adding to critical severity, only critical severity companions give you higher percentages.
So in Mod 10 even a rare Dancing Blade (3% Crit Sev) is better than epic CA companions (5% CA damage)?
No, but an epic dancing blade will be equal to an epic CA companion and the erinys or cambion magus will be better.
So CA companions are dead in the water now? With there being only so many X% damage boosters, surely CA companions are still the next best thing?
No, critical severity are better. For all intents and purposes, CA companions may as well literally be adding to critical severity, only critical severity companions give you higher percentages.
So in Mod 10 even a rare Dancing Blade (3% Crit Sev) is better than epic CA companions (5% CA damage)?
No, but an epic dancing blade will be equal to an epic CA companion and the erinys or cambion magus will be better.
Okay so maths was never my strong point (those formulas might as well be Greek to me). With high Crit Chance (100%+) would Crit Sev not work out better than CA, which won't always be up?
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
So CA companions are dead in the water now? With there being only so many X% damage boosters, surely CA companions are still the next best thing?
No, critical severity are better. For all intents and purposes, CA companions may as well literally be adding to critical severity, only critical severity companions give you higher percentages.
So in Mod 10 even a rare Dancing Blade (3% Crit Sev) is better than epic CA companions (5% CA damage)?
No, but an epic dancing blade will be equal to an epic CA companion and the erinys or cambion magus will be better.
Okay so maths was never my strong point (those formulas might as well be Greek to me). With high Crit Chance (100%+) would Crit Sev not work out better than CA, which won't always be up?
In those circumstances yes, the crit companions should always be better.
So CA companions are dead in the water now? With there being only so many X% damage boosters, surely CA companions are still the next best thing?
No, critical severity are better. For all intents and purposes, CA companions may as well literally be adding to critical severity, only critical severity companions give you higher percentages.
So in Mod 10 even a rare Dancing Blade (3% Crit Sev) is better than epic CA companions (5% CA damage)?
No, but an epic dancing blade will be equal to an epic CA companion and the erinys or cambion magus will be better.
Okay so maths was never my strong point (those formulas might as well be Greek to me). With high Crit Chance (100%+) would Crit Sev not work out better than CA, which won't always be up?
In those circumstances yes, the crit companions should always be better.
Okay noted thanks. Good thing I chose not to upgrade my green Intellect Devourer to epic. Move to the head of the queue please, Erinyes
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Discussions like this one are why companion upgrade costs still need to come down. After multiple modules of the combat advantage companions being an excellent choice of active bonuses, and in the total absence of any feedback indicating they were not working as intended, I had started using my slowly accumulated upgrade tokens to improve them in order to improve character performance. Now wasted, and I could have used my tokens on something cooler instead. Upgrading companions is costly enough that I don't do it without serious consideration, and with this lesson taken to heart, I'm going to be more reluctant than ever to even touch that system again.
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Yup. Companions and mounts are the areas where switching is a real pain... Thanks God I didn't upgrade my Stalwart or Intellect Devourer yet. Purple Blink Dog will probably stay there tough.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I'm trying to prioritize companions giving this change. I looked at Fab's CW guide and decided to apply % damage modifier (from a siege master, for example) to the base damage calculation, but my math skills are simplistic at best. I assumed a critical hit with combat advantage. My interpretation of the results are that a % damage increase of 4% is better than two companions both granting 5% CA damage. Additionally, a 4% base damage increase also yields higher damage than a 10% crit severity increase (from an erinyes, for example).
So my two CA companions are out and the siege master is definitely in. The other slot might be the erinyes, or as crizpynuts suggested, a shadow demon instead of the erinyes. Thanks to all who tested and documented the new mechanic.
ps4 here i am a TR what would be the perfect companions active bonus set ? right now i have erinyes ,fire archon,air archon ,siege master and the Dancing Blade this last one i have been thinking to change for repentant dragon cultis when i get it or cambion magus when his get available on ps4 or wild hunter or earth archon ? thanks in advance and 4 the good work and sorry about my english
Your equations make my head spin and normally I really like math. As an Xbox player I really appreciate all the testing you can do and the effort you put in to keep us rolling in the right direction.
I run two archons, the dancing blade, erinyes and a legendary merc (I know....but I already upgraded it so I am keeping it for now) on my TR and they seem to play nice together. I ran the cultist for a while, it was ok, but I did not feel like it is better than the dancing blade.
Non Crit: Base Damage*(1+0.15+Attribute Bonus+Companions+Stat Bonus+0.1(0.15+Attribute bonus+Stat Bonuses+Companions))
Crit: Base Damage*(1+0.15+Crit Severity+Attribute Bonus+Companions+Stat Bonus+0.1(0.15+Attribute Bonus+Stat Bonuses+Companions))
Can someone please explain, why at the end of the equation you're adding +0.1(0.15 etc etc bonus) all over again? What's that stand for what am I missing here?
Non Crit: Base Damage*(1+0.15+Attribute Bonus+Companions+Stat Bonus+0.1(0.15+Attribute bonus+Stat Bonuses+Companions))
Crit: Base Damage*(1+0.15+Crit Severity+Attribute Bonus+Companions+Stat Bonus+0.1(0.15+Attribute Bonus+Stat Bonuses+Companions))
Can someone please explain, why at the end of the equation you're adding +0.1(0.15 etc etc bonus) all over again? What's that stand for what am I missing here?
It's not written in the best way, there should be and indicator there, I[boon]*0.1 The whole part is for an underdark (or maze engine boon) that adds 10% to the CA. So you get +0.1 of the the thing
A more correct way would be (for both crit and non-crit):
So a couple things stand out to me if I'm correct.
1. Companions add a flat bonus to your CA damage for whatever bonus % they say. 2. The boon adds to your base damage scaling with your bonuses, as little as 1.5% extra CA damage for no bonuses as compared to 4.5% for the character in the example. Meaning it may or may not be useful. 3. Criticals don't multiply CA damage. It just gives you a higher base amount from which all other bonuses are applied on top of.
Comments
Base Damage*(1+0.15+1.X *(Attribute Bonus+Stat Bonus+Companion Bonus) + Y * Crit severity)
with two flags
X: 0 for without the boon, 1 for with the boon.
Y: 0 for non crit, 1 for crit.
The crit severity messing around CA damage is really anti-intuitive. Crit severity should work multiplicative.
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
1) Base Damage*(1+Stuff+Combatant Maneuver+0.1(Stuff+Combatant's Maneuver)
2) Base Damage*(1+Stuff+Combatant's Maneuver*(Stuff)+0.1(Stuff))
3) Base Damage*(1+Stuff+0.1(Stuff))*1.05
4) Be bugged and do nothing
I think option 1 will be the most likely, there are some other things that may occur which I have not listed, but I will leave checking those for if none of the first 3 work. If anyone wants a copy of the dagger, just say so and ill send you 1 on preview, it makes things so much easier to test
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Discussions like this one are why companion upgrade costs still need to come down. After multiple modules of the combat advantage companions being an excellent choice of active bonuses, and in the total absence of any feedback indicating they were not working as intended, I had started using my slowly accumulated upgrade tokens to improve them in order to improve character performance. Now wasted, and I could have used my tokens on something cooler instead. Upgrading companions is costly enough that I don't do it without serious consideration, and with this lesson taken to heart, I'm going to be more reluctant than ever to even touch that system again.
Edit: double words
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
So my two CA companions are out and the siege master is definitely in. The other slot might be the erinyes, or as crizpynuts suggested, a shadow demon instead of the erinyes. Thanks to all who tested and documented the new mechanic.
I run two archons, the dancing blade, erinyes and a legendary merc (I know....but I already upgraded it so I am keeping it for now) on my TR and they seem to play nice together. I ran the cultist for a while, it was ok, but I did not feel like it is better than the dancing blade.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
The whole part is for an underdark (or maze engine boon) that adds 10% to the CA. So you get +0.1 of the the thing
A more correct way would be (for both crit and non-crit):
(Level_Base + Weapon_Base)*buffs1*buffs2*power*(1 - max (eDR - ArP),0)*etc..* ( 1 + I[critical_hit]*(Crit_severity) + I[CA]*(1 + I[CA_boon]0.1)*( 0.15 + AttributeCA+ CompanionsSum + StatCA)Where I[something] is an indicator for something and equal 1 when something = true and 0 when something false.
So a couple things stand out to me if I'm correct.
1. Companions add a flat bonus to your CA damage for whatever bonus % they say.
2. The boon adds to your base damage scaling with your bonuses, as little as 1.5% extra CA damage for no bonuses as compared to 4.5% for the character in the example. Meaning it may or may not be useful.
3. Criticals don't multiply CA damage. It just gives you a higher base amount from which all other bonuses are applied on top of.