lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
List of proposed changes for Trapper:
Powers: At-wills
Hunter's Teamwork: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase.
Powers: Encounters
Binding Arrow: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Activation time reduced to 0.7s, down from 1s. Damage dealt to secondary targets now receive full damage bonuses from the caster. This includes critical hit damage, however, the secondary hit will not be considered a separate critical hit. Damage increased ~10%. Recharge time reduced to 18s, down from 22s. The secondary shot from this power should work properly again, instead of not firing if you are too far from the primary target. Will properly applied Thorned Roots again, instead of only applying Strong Grasping Roots when you have the Thorned Roots feat.
Constricting Arrow: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s.
Hindering Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Charge refill time reduced to 12s, down from 15s. Now generates an appropriate amount of AP, instead of a very small amount.
Hindering Strike: Now allows other powers to queue like normal after activation.
Steel Breeze: Recharge time reduced to 14s, down from 16s. Damage increased ~75%.
Powers: Class Features
Aspect of the Serpent: Stacks will only be consumed by powers that actually deal damage. This means powers such as Stag Heart or Hawk Eye will build stacks, but not consume them. The triggered effect of Careful Attack will no longer grant a stack of Aspect of the Serpent.
Feats:
Forestbond: When used in conjunction with Thorned Roots, the recharge reduction granted would be doubled. This has been fixed, and Forestbond will now always grant a 5% reduction, regardless of whether you are using Strong Grasping Roots or Thorned Roots.
Swiftness of the Fox: No longer triggers multiple times when hitting multiple targets. Now triggers from more powers. Ranged Encounter and At-will powers reduce the cooldown of your Melee Encounter powers, and vice versa. Daily powers reduce the cooldown of all of your Encounter powers.
Your Melee Encounter & At-will powers shorten the cooldown of your Ranged Encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%. Your Ranged Encounter & At-will powers shorten the cooldown of your Melee Encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%. Your Daily powers shorten the cooldown of all your Encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%.
Biting Snares: Now directly increases the duration of Thorned Roots by 60%, in addition to your other control powers. (This allows Biting Snares to still increase the duration of the DoT that Thorned Roots deals, even though it is no longer affected by control strengths & resistances) The Master Trapper effect can no longer proc multiple times by rapidly switching stances.
Thorned Roots: After upgrading to Thorned Roots, there would be a slight delay before they would apply compared to Strong Grasping Roots. This has been remedied, and Thorned Roots now applies just as quickly as Strong Grasping Roots. When striking a target that is immune to control, Thorned Roots stated that it would deal a bonus 250% Weapon Damage up front. However, it was actually dealing 2 ticks of damage, one at 175% of Weapon Damage, and one at 50% of Weapon Damage per rank of Thorned Roots, for a maximum total of 425% Weapon Damage at Rank 5. This has been changed to now do 1 tick of damage for 200% + 50% per rank, for a maximum of 450% at Rank 5. The tooltip has been updated with these numbers, and has been clarified to state that this is in addition to the DoT. When used in conjunction with the Class Feature Crushing Roots, Thorned Roots would apply the Daze twice. In most cases, this would manifest as just causing the Daze to last about 0.1s longer. This has been fixed. Updated the tooltip to make it clear that it deals damage based on your Main Hand weapon. The damage over time component of this power no longer has its duration reduced by control resistances, nor is its duration increased by control bonuses. If you apply Thorned Roots to a target, then all of the ticks of damage will apply to them, even if the Root effect is removed earlier. Targets that are completely immune to Roots still get the individual burst of damage instead of the DoT.
Strong Grasping Roots, Thorned Roots: The spiral roots/vines VFX should now display the entire duration of the Root, instead of ending early.
Weak Grasping Roots: Now plays one of the standard immobilized/rooted VFX on the target while they are affected.
Grasping Roots (Weak & Strong), Thorned Roots: The Root effect can no longer be deflected.
General
Feats:
Scoundrel Training: No longer affects the damage displayed on the tooltips of your At-will powers.
Powers:
Shift: Increased the distance of each shift ~30%.
Powers: Class Features
Aspect of the Pack: Rank 4 now properly increases the range of the power, instead of decreasing it.
Pathfinder's Action: Now grants 5% Deflection Chance per rank as stated, instead of only granting 13% at Rank 4.
Crushing Roots: The Daze effect can no longer be deflected.
Powers: Dailies
Cold Steel Hurricane: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Overall damage further increased by ~33%. Now properly reports that it has a 60' range. Previously, the UI reported 40'. This power will now dissipate if it hits 10 total targets along its path. Total activation time reduced to 1.5s, down from 2s. This allows you to move much more quickly after the power has fired.
Seismic Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase.
Disruptive Shot: The Daze component of this power can no longer be deflected.
Forest Ghost: Can now strike the same target once per second, instead of only once per activation.
Forest Meditation: Base recharge time reduced to 40s, down from 45s. This means at rank 4, the recharge time is 30s, down from 35s. This power can now be deactivated by pressing the button again. Has a slight delay at activation to prevent accidentally deactivating it via button mashing. Can once again be cancelled via the Shift power.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
BUG: Thorned Roots can crit. Many other powers such as GWF's Deep Gash and also the Lostmauth's Vengeance set bonus had this effect removed so it doesn't really make sense it can crit.
ralexinor
I would say this is not a bug or even a problem. Since they don't proc off a crit but are tied to specific powers, there should be no issue with them being subject to the player's crit chance.
Proc effects that are triggered on a crit don't have an independent crit chance and will always deal critical damage if it is enabled, so the only alternative is to make this damage not able to crit at all.
This info was shared by Gentleman Crush quite some time ago when discussing why Storm Spell's automatic additional crit damage was being removed. It's a product of how the game engine works.
beckylunatic and as far as i know HRs do not have anything comparable to something called eye of the storm "uhehe i dont use it" as far as i know hrs dont have anything comparable to chilling presence
im just trying to protect those pve hrs out here, i would probably perform better with no critical hits and a feytouch in pvp
Just to make it abundantly clear, every damage proc that I can think of that's had its ability to crit disabled has been because it was triggered by a crit and the inherited crit was deemed too strong.
I don't see any reason to remove the ability to crit from proc effects that do not inherit a crit from their parent power.
BUG: Cordon of Arrows stops activating and doing damage to a target dummy after a certain amount of time. The first few uses of Cordon on a dummy works, but then it randomly stops working and won't explode upon landing and even when it does, it does no damage. This bug persists for all cordon uses on any target dummy until you change instances. This is severely hurting testing capabilities right now.
Like the no-crits-distance bug, this also affect the DC's Chains of Blazing Light. I noticed it in the AoE damage Portobello challenge and bug-reported it in the event bug thread at the time, but didn't really know what I was looking at because I don't fight dummies very often. I found that sometimes Cordon/Chains would work in that challenge, but more often they would not. The bug doesn't seem to be tied to the activities of an individual player, as I'd simply be running a one-minute challenge once and sometimes encounter the bug and sometimes not. The event map was fairly busy so there were lots of instances active, but my characters would be coming and going.
Base damage as an executioner. I did get rid of First Strike.
How are you determining "base damage?"
For how we determine base damage, here are the differences I see:
L70 Stormwarden HR, Combat spec, wearing just legendary Elemental Fire Axes Rapid Strike tooltip damage - 1,153-1,382
L70 Swordmaster GWF, Destroyer spec, wearing just legendary Elemental Fire Greataxe Sure Strike tooltip damage - 1,253-1,507
(I chose legendary Elemental Fire weapons as easy comparisons that would be equivalent for each class)
And what are you considering "buffed" for your GWF screencaps? Just trying to get a realistic basis for comparison. Don't forget, the Piercing Blade Feat does not affect the tooltip of HR powers (because it adds a secondary damage effect, instead of increasing the base damage of the power) so the damage of Rapid Strike is actually 50% higher than that. Also, Rapid Strike (as the name implies) swings much faster than Sure Strike - even faster than Sure Strike while Unstoppable. I'm not trying to say your points aren't valid - just that we need to make sure we're both talking about the same things, or else the miscommunication will insure that nothing happens, and no one is happy. I would not like either of those to be the case.
Unrelated to that discussion -
Thorned Roots - is it an encounter power or not? Technically, no it is not. However, we wont' be making any adjustments to these interactions at this time. If/when we do, it might just be wording changes to make it less confusing, instead of removing interactions - unless the interactions become a serious problem.
RE: "67% base damage? How does that work?"
All of our class powers that deal damage have a "base damage" that is just a table look up based on your class and level. This insures a minimum amount of damage as you level up, and makes sure that as your weapon damage falls behind in level (because you haven't got that new upgrade yet) that your damage doesn't become completely awful. If you had a weapon that had a damage range of 0 (something we have internally for testing these kinds of things out) you could see these damage values much more easily. MOST (not all) of our powers, have damage values that look something like this, in a very simplified way:
(BaseDmg + WeaponDmg) * Multipliers
BaseDmg is determined by your class and level. If you have a "correct level" weapon at Green quality, BaseDmg is ~20% of your damage.
WeaponDmg is determined by your weapon. What you see on your weapons tooltip.
And then Multipliers. There are tons of things that count as multipliers on powers. Things like - is it an At Will, Encounter, or Daily? Does ranking this power up increase damage? Does it do different damage based on number of targets, or if it is hitting a target with a flower on its head? Does the power deal different damage based on how long it charges? And then the individually defined power level adjustment multiplier for a power, which is the main thing we tweak when making adjustments such as "Clear the Ground: Damage increased ~50%."
Hopefully that helps it explain it.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Thanks @amenar for clearing some of these debatable topics up
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Amenar: The GWF's base, un-stripped dmg also isn't very high, and that's one of primary the issues w/ that class atm. The Destroyer only performs so well cause the amount of self buffs and dmg debuffs it can stack are inanely high.
Non-Destroyer GWFs have this same problem that Combat does - esp Sentinel GWFs. I urge you to compare a similarly geared Sentinel GWF (NOT using Hidden Daggers) and a Combat HR and you will find many parallels when it comes to their At-will dps.
Base damage as an executioner. I did get rid of First Strike.
How are you determining "base damage?"
For how we determine base damage, here are the differences I see:
L70 Stormwarden HR, Combat spec, wearing just legendary Elemental Fire Axes Rapid Strike tooltip damage - 1,153-1,382
L70 Swordmaster GWF, Destroyer spec, wearing just legendary Elemental Fire Greataxe Sure Strike tooltip damage - 1,253-1,507
(I chose legendary Elemental Fire weapons as easy comparisons that would be equivalent for each class)
And what are you considering "buffed" for your GWF screencaps? Just trying to get a realistic basis for comparison. Don't forget, the Piercing Blade Feat does not affect the tooltip of HR powers (because it adds a secondary damage effect, instead of increasing the base damage of the power) so the damage of Rapid Strike is actually 50% higher than that. Also, Rapid Strike (as the name implies) swings much faster than Sure Strike - even faster than Sure Strike while Unstoppable. I'm not trying to say your points aren't valid - just that we need to make sure we're both talking about the same things, or else the miscommunication will insure that nothing happens, and no one is happy. I would not like either of those to be the case.
Unrelated to that discussion -
Thorned Roots - is it an encounter power or not? Technically, no it is not. However, we wont' be making any adjustments to these interactions at this time. If/when we do, it might just be wording changes to make it less confusing, instead of removing interactions - unless the interactions become a serious problem.
RE: "67% base damage? How does that work?"
All of our class powers that deal damage have a "base damage" that is just a table look up based on your class and level. This insures a minimum amount of damage as you level up, and makes sure that as your weapon damage falls behind in level (because you haven't got that new upgrade yet) that your damage doesn't become completely awful. If you had a weapon that had a damage range of 0 (something we have internally for testing these kinds of things out) you could see these damage values much more easily. MOST (not all) of our powers, have damage values that look something like this, in a very simplified way:
(BaseDmg + WeaponDmg) * Multipliers
BaseDmg is determined by your class and level. If you have a "correct level" weapon at Green quality, BaseDmg is ~20% of your damage.
WeaponDmg is determined by your weapon. What you see on your weapons tooltip.
And then Multipliers. There are tons of things that count as multipliers on powers. Things like - is it an At Will, Encounter, or Daily? Does ranking this power up increase damage? Does it do different damage based on number of targets, or if it is hitting a target with a flower on its head? Does the power deal different damage based on how long it charges? And then the individually defined power level adjustment multiplier for a power, which is the main thing we tweak when making adjustments such as "Clear the Ground: Damage increased ~50%."
Also, Rapid Strike (as the name implies) swings much faster than Sure Strike - even faster than Sure Strike while Unstoppable. I'm not trying to say your points aren't valid - just that we need to make sure we're both talking about the same things, or else the miscommunication will insure that nothing happens, and no one is happy. I would not like either of those to be the case.
Also, its worth noting that Rapid Strike hits so fast, that its anim is prone to bugging out, at least on my end. Esp in zones that are lag-prone.
Base damage as an executioner. I did get rid of First Strike.
How are you determining "base damage?"
For how we determine base damage, here are the differences I see:
L70 Stormwarden HR, Combat spec, wearing just legendary Elemental Fire Axes Rapid Strike tooltip damage - 1,153-1,382
L70 Swordmaster GWF, Destroyer spec, wearing just legendary Elemental Fire Greataxe Sure Strike tooltip damage - 1,253-1,507
(I chose legendary Elemental Fire weapons as easy comparisons that would be equivalent for each class)
And what are you considering "buffed" for your GWF screencaps? Just trying to get a realistic basis for comparison. Don't forget, the Piercing Blade Feat does not affect the tooltip of HR powers (because it adds a secondary damage effect, instead of increasing the base damage of the power) so the damage of Rapid Strike is actually 50% higher than that. Also, Rapid Strike (as the name implies) swings much faster than Sure Strike - even faster than Sure Strike while Unstoppable. I'm not trying to say your points aren't valid - just that we need to make sure we're both talking about the same things, or else the miscommunication will insure that nothing happens, and no one is happy. I would not like either of those to be the case.
Unrelated to that discussion -
Thorned Roots - is it an encounter power or not? Technically, no it is not. However, we wont' be making any adjustments to these interactions at this time. If/when we do, it might just be wording changes to make it less confusing, instead of removing interactions - unless the interactions become a serious problem.
RE: "67% base damage? How does that work?"
All of our class powers that deal damage have a "base damage" that is just a table look up based on your class and level. This insures a minimum amount of damage as you level up, and makes sure that as your weapon damage falls behind in level (because you haven't got that new upgrade yet) that your damage doesn't become completely awful. If you had a weapon that had a damage range of 0 (something we have internally for testing these kinds of things out) you could see these damage values much more easily. MOST (not all) of our powers, have damage values that look something like this, in a very simplified way:
(BaseDmg + WeaponDmg) * Multipliers
BaseDmg is determined by your class and level. If you have a "correct level" weapon at Green quality, BaseDmg is ~20% of your damage.
WeaponDmg is determined by your weapon. What you see on your weapons tooltip.
And then Multipliers. There are tons of things that count as multipliers on powers. Things like - is it an At Will, Encounter, or Daily? Does ranking this power up increase damage? Does it do different damage based on number of targets, or if it is hitting a target with a flower on its head? Does the power deal different damage based on how long it charges? And then the individually defined power level adjustment multiplier for a power, which is the main thing we tweak when making adjustments such as "Clear the Ground: Damage increased ~50%."
Hopefully that helps it explain it.
Ha got ya... hitting a target with a flower on its head?
I knew you were playing PVZGW2 and not doing any changes in this game lol
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Base damage as an executioner. I did get rid of First Strike.
How are you determining "base damage?"
For how we determine base damage, here are the differences I see:
L70 Stormwarden HR, Combat spec, wearing just legendary Elemental Fire Axes Rapid Strike tooltip damage - 1,153-1,382
L70 Swordmaster GWF, Destroyer spec, wearing just legendary Elemental Fire Greataxe Sure Strike tooltip damage - 1,253-1,507
(I chose legendary Elemental Fire weapons as easy comparisons that would be equivalent for each class)
And what are you considering "buffed" for your GWF screencaps? Just trying to get a realistic basis for comparison. Don't forget, the Piercing Blade Feat does not affect the tooltip of HR powers (because it adds a secondary damage effect, instead of increasing the base damage of the power) so the damage of Rapid Strike is actually 50% higher than that. Also, Rapid Strike (as the name implies) swings much faster than Sure Strike - even faster than Sure Strike while Unstoppable. I'm not trying to say your points aren't valid - just that we need to make sure we're both talking about the same things, or else the miscommunication will insure that nothing happens, and no one is happy. I would not like either of those to be the case.
Unrelated to that discussion -
Thorned Roots - is it an encounter power or not? Technically, no it is not. However, we wont' be making any adjustments to these interactions at this time. If/when we do, it might just be wording changes to make it less confusing, instead of removing interactions - unless the interactions become a serious problem.
RE: "67% base damage? How does that work?"
All of our class powers that deal damage have a "base damage" that is just a table look up based on your class and level. This insures a minimum amount of damage as you level up, and makes sure that as your weapon damage falls behind in level (because you haven't got that new upgrade yet) that your damage doesn't become completely awful. If you had a weapon that had a damage range of 0 (something we have internally for testing these kinds of things out) you could see these damage values much more easily. MOST (not all) of our powers, have damage values that look something like this, in a very simplified way:
(BaseDmg + WeaponDmg) * Multipliers
BaseDmg is determined by your class and level. If you have a "correct level" weapon at Green quality, BaseDmg is ~20% of your damage.
WeaponDmg is determined by your weapon. What you see on your weapons tooltip.
And then Multipliers. There are tons of things that count as multipliers on powers. Things like - is it an At Will, Encounter, or Daily? Does ranking this power up increase damage? Does it do different damage based on number of targets, or if it is hitting a target with a flower on its head? Does the power deal different damage based on how long it charges? And then the individually defined power level adjustment multiplier for a power, which is the main thing we tweak when making adjustments such as "Clear the Ground: Damage increased ~50%."
Hopefully that helps it explain it.
@amenar thx for clarify several things up, this was a good lecture, by the way are there some news concerning when we will be able to get stuff able to be tested in preview? as time is running out short would be at least good do the bug hunting job about the new changes (as its not few stuff) before it becomes too late to do anything at all; or until the whole release date get post-poned but this is perhaps more than a dream
GRAVITY XGAME
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
@flowcyto : the combat ranger should do the same of the destroyer. Use its feats to rank up damage. The point is that those feats are lagging behind. In this game feats are a large part of the playstyle. Asking for blanket damage increases makes every tree more similar to the next one as feats have to be reduced in power not to make something overpowered.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Base damage as an executioner. I did get rid of First Strike.
How are you determining "base damage?"
And what are you considering "buffed" for your GWF screencaps? Just trying to get a realistic basis for comparison. Don't forget, the Piercing Blade Feat does not affect the tooltip of HR powers (because it adds a secondary damage effect, instead of increasing the base damage of the power) so the damage of Rapid Strike is actually 50% higher than that. Also, Rapid Strike (as the name implies) swings much faster than Sure Strike - even faster than Sure Strike while Unstoppable. I'm not trying to say your points aren't valid - just that we need to make sure we're both talking about the same things, or else the miscommunication will insure that nothing happens, and no one is happy. I would not like either of those to be the case.
And then Multipliers. There are tons of things that count as multipliers on powers. Things like - is it an At Will, Encounter, or Daily? Does ranking this power up increase damage? Does it do different damage based on number of targets, or if it is hitting a target with a flower on its head? Does the power deal different damage based on how long it charges? And then the individually defined power level adjustment multiplier for a power, which is the main thing we tweak when making adjustments such as "Clear the Ground: Damage increased ~50%."
Hopefully that helps it explain it.
I'm talking about the tooltip damage on said attacks without buffs to them.
And my GWF is a destroyer. Those are buffs from a combo of encounters and the destroyer tree/class features. I wasn't buffed from another player. That's what that class is capable of by itself. Same with my TR, DC, GF. It doesn't matter if it swings slightly faster. It's only critting for 7k, while gimping my crit chance!! Can you imagine if my GWF had an extra 100% crit severity? It's sure strike is critting for 40k, while having waay more crit chance and no vorpal! My DC crits for more than double, even my GF. There's no more excuses for this.
Also about piercing blades. It hardly has much contribution when the at-wills are at such a low level of damage. Slap on another 650 on top of 1300, which isn't cutting it still on critters with 50k+ health pools. I have to slash at them for several seconds with just the at-wills, on minion type low HP mobs, the GWF can just crit em in a second and be on already. My at-wills can't even crit for 10k with a P vorpal and another 50% from the feat. How could you possibly think this will cut it?
You can only try this yourself and see visually how weak they are at the moment. Even abusing the chain flurry granted by rain of swords, my GF can even kill things faster, much faster.
For a capstone the revolves around the at-wills, the class is not viable as a DPS role in a group. The at-will damage hardly contributes to the total damage. Even a righteous cleric generates more damage, which is always outpaced by TRs/CWs/SWs/GWFs/Trappers/Archers. The at-wills can't down anything remotely fast enough despite piercing blades and flurrys. Even the damnation SW I was messing with on preview was pumping out more. Combat is left with gushing wound/plant growth and ranged encounters for it's damage. The moment I have no good encounter ready to use my damage nearly falls down a cliff.
You slapped on another 50% on clear the ground for a later patch, bumping it roughly 1800 tooltip damage. I know without a doubt it will not be enough seeing how poorly it currently performs.
This is what I been trying to explain this whole time. Because their base tooltip damage minus buffs are so much lower compared to the others, buffs don't have as much of an impact. There is no reason to bring a combat HR into a group when just about anything and everything else will do a much better job. It brings nothing of use, what's the point of a melee striker if it can't even compete with a tank. It's squishier than the GWF, lacks the CC and burst of the TR. It's a joke of a path atm, because of low damage on melee at-wills and other encounters.
There aren't as many good melee DPS encounters as archery, and even archery has stronger ranged at-wills. The damage for combat HAS to come from somewhere, BESIDES plant growth and gushing wound. Trapper can use those too, and do much more for the party.
Then you have feats like Battle Crazed. Damage buffs and lifesteal do not go together. Lifesteal makes the game trivial when it's just tossed at you for free. It does not help combat in pvp either. Deflect would be a much better stat to focus on. It is melee after all.
IMO is normal that combat has lower damage than the Destroyer because, even when is focused on the melee, the HR still can use the bow making it more versatile than a GWF Destroyer. What it has no sense is that the damage is so low on combat path that, even when he use the feats for melee, he will still deal more damage with the bow using the rigth skills. Basically, combat and archery need really strong T4, T5 and capstones feats to make them worth the time. I've seen lot of changes proposed that are welcomed, but none of them seem to be aimed accurately if the idea it was try to offer more possibilities than being Trapper to the HRs. I've been always a bowmen but I guess I will continue as a trapper because a trapper make a better Archer than a Archery feated one.
IMO is normal that combat has lower damage than the Destroyer because, even when is focused on the melee, the HR still can use the bow making it more versatile than a GWF Destroyer.
There's no such thing as versatility in this game. When even support builds are out DPSing you, when all you have to offer it DPS.
Well I guess this the end. Combat will remain a joke again for another 6 modules because no one will listen. People simply won't test it themselves in IWD or where ever and realize how terrible and why it is. It showed evidence of at-wills under half the DPS of what other classes have, and yet there are still excuses. Test it yourself!
Why do you think no one uses combat!? How many modules has it been?
I have never been asking for Combat to do the DPS of a GWF. I been asking for them to do more DPS than support builds and tanks!!!
I agree that combat tree needs an at will buff since the capstone revolves around at wills.
absolutely. the Capstone is for at-wills, which implies that the tree and playstyle should be making heavy use of at-wills, and that this is what makes it different from a Trapper.
However, I am thinking, contrary to @ghoulz66's suggestion of a blanket at-will buff, I think the buff to at-wills should come from a higher-tier feat, just to keep the other specs from being overpowered.
something like "Increases your damage with Melee at-wills by 25/50/75/100/150%"
place it in the spot where Battle Crazed is. or simply change Battle Crazed to do this. this ensures that the other specs can't get this AND their Capstone, preventing such a buff from being overpowered in a Trapper or Archery spec.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
place it in the spot where Battle Crazed is. or simply change Battle Crazed to do this. this ensures that the other specs can't get this AND their Capstone, preventing such a buff from being overpowered in a Trapper or Archery spec.
I highly doubt trapper and archery can capitalize on a melee at-will buff. Archery gets no special buff for them. They get longshot for their own at-wills. Thought some of them still need small buffs anyhow. I mean, c'mon, use rapid strike when you have that 1 second aimed shot!?
Trapper is too busy cycling through powers. Sure, you could root something and slash them to death, but that won't have any part in a group run. Trapper wants to cycle through to make the most of it's best powers quickly. Besides, even with all the current combat buffs the tree offers, the at-wills are still dealing LESS damage than Thorned Roots just for insult to injury. Trappers wouldn't want to spam at-wills!
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
I give @amenar all the feedback I can possibly give to the best of my abilities. I tested them as much as possible.
What is the point of testing on preview when my feedback is X path is performing horrific still and all my suggestions are ignored? I have given the most simple solution possible to improve the path! I didn't say to rework anything. What harm is there in applying my suggestions to the game? They're quick and easy to change.
If they somehow did lead to over performance.. well, you guys always tone it back down, just like everything else that happened. Like with spell storm class feature critting? We are never going to find out if you don't make a large sudden change like this. We're running out of time.
Seems there may be a misunderstanding, my apologies for not being clearer. I was asking for clarification, which unfortunately I didn't really get, not stating that things "are fine."
I agree that Combat still needs work. I'm sad that I couldn't dedicate more time to Combat this module. HR is, unfortunately - due to stance switching - twice the size of every other class (with the exception of Devoted Cleric, due to Divine and Empowered modes), and considerably more complex. Our testing shows that we'll likely start seeing some viable builds pop up with Archery, and Trapper won't be going anywhere. It'd be awesome if Combat was also there. Getting to these places takes time, and I hope that you can trust that our goal is to make our game - which is something many, many people at Cryptic invest their hearts and souls into - the best game it can be.
@ghoulz66 I'm sorry that you've become frustrated by this process. You've provided a ton of very useful feedback during this class review, as have many, many other people. Communication on the forums can be difficult, and I'm only able to spend so much time on here, while also continuing to work on improving the game. Unfortunately, we are very leery of making big sweeping changes that could potentially lead to something being very overpowered without the proper amount of time to test it. Releasing a huge buff, which then causes everyone to switch to that spec, and then nerfing it, is not something we're big fans of doing. Yes, it has happened, but we're always sad when it does.
Try to keep in mind that, while the amount of changes we can still make this module are very small, this is an MMO, and things will constantly change. More changes to the class will come, and hopefully sooner rather than later.
Question to @amnar. Is it possible to combine a range encounter with another Meele encounter than it's present counterpart? As an example putting marauder escape with ambush without to much hours of programming.
Question to @amnar. Is it possible to combine a range encounter with another Meele encounter than it's present counterpart? As an example putting marauder escape with ambush without to much hours of programming.
It is possible, and something I think is pretty likely to happen in the future. It was a bit too large of a change for this review.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Seems there may be a misunderstanding, my apologies for not being clearer. I was asking for clarification, which unfortunately I didn't really get, not stating that things "are fine."
I agree that Combat still needs work. I'm sad that I couldn't dedicate more time to Combat this module. HR is, unfortunately - due to stance switching - twice the size of every other class, and considerably more complex. Our testing shows that we'll likely start seeing some viable builds pop up with Archery, and Trapper won't be going anywhere. It'd be awesome if Combat was also there. Getting to these places takes time, and I hope that you can trust that our goal is to make our game - which is something many, many people at Cryptic invest their hearts and souls into - the best game it can be.
@ghoulz66 I'm sorry that you've become frustrated by this process. You've provided a ton of very useful feedback during this class review, as have many, many other people. Communication on the forums can be difficult, and I'm only able to spend so much time on here, while also continuing to work on improving the game. Unfortunately, we are very leery of making big sweeping changes that could potentially lead to something being very overpowered without the proper amount of time to test it. Releasing a huge buff, which then causes everyone to switch to that spec, and then nerfing it, is not something we're big fans of doing. Yes, it has happened, but we're always sad when it does.
Try to keep in mind that, while the amount of changes we can still make this module are very small, this is an MMO, and things will constantly change. More changes to the class will come, and hopefully sooner rather than later.
I honestly don't see the at-wills being on par with other at-wills leading to over performance. The damage is so laughable now as it is. There's no way seeing how combat functions, that this could lead to abuse.
A 7k crit up to 14k, along with piercing blade slapped in. A GWF still deals DOUBLE of this.
Combat has to gimp it's own crit in the process. GWFs and TRs, and archery HRs will yield A LOT more crits than combat. And their crits hit harder still. Even CWs with their non-crit spell storm procs will hit harder still. EVEN THORNED ROOTS.
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
We're just giving the at-wills a 75-100% extra buff to them! That only takes several minutes to do! Anything is better than nothing! It might still underperform still, but at least there was an attempt!
Comments
Powers: At-wills
Hunter's Teamwork: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase.
Powers: Encounters
Binding Arrow: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Activation time reduced to 0.7s, down from 1s. Damage dealt to secondary targets now receive full damage bonuses from the caster. This includes critical hit damage, however, the secondary hit will not be considered a separate critical hit. Damage increased ~10%. Recharge time reduced to 18s, down from 22s. The secondary shot from this power should work properly again, instead of not firing if you are too far from the primary target. Will properly applied Thorned Roots again, instead of only applying Strong Grasping Roots when you have the Thorned Roots feat.
Constricting Arrow: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s.
Hindering Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Charge refill time reduced to 12s, down from 15s. Now generates an appropriate amount of AP, instead of a very small amount.
Hindering Strike: Now allows other powers to queue like normal after activation.
Steel Breeze: Recharge time reduced to 14s, down from 16s. Damage increased ~75%.
Powers: Class Features
Aspect of the Serpent: Stacks will only be consumed by powers that actually deal damage. This means powers such as Stag Heart or Hawk Eye will build stacks, but not consume them. The triggered effect of Careful Attack will no longer grant a stack of Aspect of the Serpent.
Feats:
Forestbond: When used in conjunction with Thorned Roots, the recharge reduction granted would be doubled. This has been fixed, and Forestbond will now always grant a 5% reduction, regardless of whether you are using Strong Grasping Roots or Thorned Roots.
Swiftness of the Fox: No longer triggers multiple times when hitting multiple targets. Now triggers from more powers. Ranged Encounter and At-will powers reduce the cooldown of your Melee Encounter powers, and vice versa. Daily powers reduce the cooldown of all of your Encounter powers.
Your Melee Encounter & At-will powers shorten the cooldown of your Ranged Encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%.
Your Ranged Encounter & At-will powers shorten the cooldown of your Melee Encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%.
Your Daily powers shorten the cooldown of all your Encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%.
Biting Snares: Now directly increases the duration of Thorned Roots by 60%, in addition to your other control powers. (This allows Biting Snares to still increase the duration of the DoT that Thorned Roots deals, even though it is no longer affected by control strengths & resistances) The Master Trapper effect can no longer proc multiple times by rapidly switching stances.
Thorned Roots: After upgrading to Thorned Roots, there would be a slight delay before they would apply compared to Strong Grasping Roots. This has been remedied, and Thorned Roots now applies just as quickly as Strong Grasping Roots. When striking a target that is immune to control, Thorned Roots stated that it would deal a bonus 250% Weapon Damage up front. However, it was actually dealing 2 ticks of damage, one at 175% of Weapon Damage, and one at 50% of Weapon Damage per rank of Thorned Roots, for a maximum total of 425% Weapon Damage at Rank 5. This has been changed to now do 1 tick of damage for 200% + 50% per rank, for a maximum of 450% at Rank 5. The tooltip has been updated with these numbers, and has been clarified to state that this is in addition to the DoT. When used in conjunction with the Class Feature Crushing Roots, Thorned Roots would apply the Daze twice. In most cases, this would manifest as just causing the Daze to last about 0.1s longer. This has been fixed. Updated the tooltip to make it clear that it deals damage based on your Main Hand weapon. The damage over time component of this power no longer has its duration reduced by control resistances, nor is its duration increased by control bonuses. If you apply Thorned Roots to a target, then all of the ticks of damage will apply to them, even if the Root effect is removed earlier. Targets that are completely immune to Roots still get the individual burst of damage instead of the DoT.
Strong Grasping Roots, Thorned Roots: The spiral roots/vines VFX should now display the entire duration of the Root, instead of ending early.
Weak Grasping Roots: Now plays one of the standard immobilized/rooted VFX on the target while they are affected.
Grasping Roots (Weak & Strong), Thorned Roots: The Root effect can no longer be deflected.
General
Feats:
Scoundrel Training: No longer affects the damage displayed on the tooltips of your At-will powers.
Powers:
Shift: Increased the distance of each shift ~30%.
Powers: Class Features
Aspect of the Pack: Rank 4 now properly increases the range of the power, instead of decreasing it.
Pathfinder's Action: Now grants 5% Deflection Chance per rank as stated, instead of only granting 13% at Rank 4.
Crushing Roots: The Daze effect can no longer be deflected.
Powers: Dailies
Cold Steel Hurricane: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Overall damage further increased by ~33%. Now properly reports that it has a 60' range. Previously, the UI reported 40'. This power will now dissipate if it hits 10 total targets along its path. Total activation time reduced to 1.5s, down from 2s. This allows you to move much more quickly after the power has fired.
Seismic Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase.
Disruptive Shot: The Daze component of this power can no longer be deflected.
Forest Ghost: Can now strike the same target once per second, instead of only once per activation.
Forest Meditation: Base recharge time reduced to 40s, down from 45s. This means at rank 4, the recharge time is 30s, down from 35s. This power can now be deactivated by pressing the button again. Has a slight delay at activation to prevent accidentally deactivating it via button mashing. Can once again be cancelled via the Shift power.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
ask in wilds HR forum this is a feed back thread that has gone terribly wrong
Ara
I don't see any reason to remove the ability to crit from proc effects that do not inherit a crit from their parent power.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
For how we determine base damage, here are the differences I see:
L70 Stormwarden HR, Combat spec, wearing just legendary Elemental Fire Axes
Rapid Strike tooltip damage - 1,153-1,382
L70 Swordmaster GWF, Destroyer spec, wearing just legendary Elemental Fire Greataxe
Sure Strike tooltip damage - 1,253-1,507
(I chose legendary Elemental Fire weapons as easy comparisons that would be equivalent for each class)
And what are you considering "buffed" for your GWF screencaps? Just trying to get a realistic basis for comparison. Don't forget, the Piercing Blade Feat does not affect the tooltip of HR powers (because it adds a secondary damage effect, instead of increasing the base damage of the power) so the damage of Rapid Strike is actually 50% higher than that. Also, Rapid Strike (as the name implies) swings much faster than Sure Strike - even faster than Sure Strike while Unstoppable. I'm not trying to say your points aren't valid - just that we need to make sure we're both talking about the same things, or else the miscommunication will insure that nothing happens, and no one is happy. I would not like either of those to be the case.
Unrelated to that discussion -
Thorned Roots - is it an encounter power or not? Technically, no it is not. However, we wont' be making any adjustments to these interactions at this time. If/when we do, it might just be wording changes to make it less confusing, instead of removing interactions - unless the interactions become a serious problem.
RE: "67% base damage? How does that work?"
All of our class powers that deal damage have a "base damage" that is just a table look up based on your class and level. This insures a minimum amount of damage as you level up, and makes sure that as your weapon damage falls behind in level (because you haven't got that new upgrade yet) that your damage doesn't become completely awful. If you had a weapon that had a damage range of 0 (something we have internally for testing these kinds of things out) you could see these damage values much more easily. MOST (not all) of our powers, have damage values that look something like this, in a very simplified way:
(BaseDmg + WeaponDmg) * Multipliers
BaseDmg is determined by your class and level. If you have a "correct level" weapon at Green quality, BaseDmg is ~20% of your damage.
WeaponDmg is determined by your weapon. What you see on your weapons tooltip.
And then Multipliers. There are tons of things that count as multipliers on powers. Things like - is it an At Will, Encounter, or Daily? Does ranking this power up increase damage? Does it do different damage based on number of targets, or if it is hitting a target with a flower on its head? Does the power deal different damage based on how long it charges? And then the individually defined power level adjustment multiplier for a power, which is the main thing we tweak when making adjustments such as "Clear the Ground: Damage increased ~50%."
Hopefully that helps it explain it.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
@amenar : thanks for clearing these points. Also thanks for listening and making changes in such a limited time frame
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Non-Destroyer GWFs have this same problem that Combat does - esp Sentinel GWFs. I urge you to compare a similarly geared Sentinel GWF (NOT using Hidden Daggers) and a Combat HR and you will find many parallels when it comes to their At-will dps.
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
I knew you were playing PVZGW2 and not doing any changes in this game
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
And my GWF is a destroyer. Those are buffs from a combo of encounters and the destroyer tree/class features. I wasn't buffed from another player. That's what that class is capable of by itself. Same with my TR, DC, GF.
It doesn't matter if it swings slightly faster. It's only critting for 7k, while gimping my crit chance!! Can you imagine if my GWF had an extra 100% crit severity? It's sure strike is critting for 40k, while having waay more crit chance and no vorpal! My DC crits for more than double, even my GF. There's no more excuses for this.
Also about piercing blades. It hardly has much contribution when the at-wills are at such a low level of damage. Slap on another 650 on top of 1300, which isn't cutting it still on critters with 50k+ health pools. I have to slash at them for several seconds with just the at-wills, on minion type low HP mobs, the GWF can just crit em in a second and be on already. My at-wills can't even crit for 10k with a P vorpal and another 50% from the feat. How could you possibly think this will cut it?
You can only try this yourself and see visually how weak they are at the moment. Even abusing the chain flurry granted by rain of swords, my GF can even kill things faster, much faster.
For a capstone the revolves around the at-wills, the class is not viable as a DPS role in a group. The at-will damage hardly contributes to the total damage. Even a righteous cleric generates more damage, which is always outpaced by TRs/CWs/SWs/GWFs/Trappers/Archers. The at-wills can't down anything remotely fast enough despite piercing blades and flurrys. Even the damnation SW I was messing with on preview was pumping out more. Combat is left with gushing wound/plant growth and ranged encounters for it's damage. The moment I have no good encounter ready to use my damage nearly falls down a cliff.
You slapped on another 50% on clear the ground for a later patch, bumping it roughly 1800 tooltip damage. I know without a doubt it will not be enough seeing how poorly it currently performs.
This is what I been trying to explain this whole time. Because their base tooltip damage minus buffs are so much lower compared to the others, buffs don't have as much of an impact. There is no reason to bring a combat HR into a group when just about anything and everything else will do a much better job. It brings nothing of use, what's the point of a melee striker if it can't even compete with a tank. It's squishier than the GWF, lacks the CC and burst of the TR. It's a joke of a path atm, because of low damage on melee at-wills and other encounters.
There aren't as many good melee DPS encounters as archery, and even archery has stronger ranged at-wills. The damage for combat HAS to come from somewhere, BESIDES plant growth and gushing wound. Trapper can use those too, and do much more for the party.
Then you have feats like Battle Crazed. Damage buffs and lifesteal do not go together. Lifesteal makes the game trivial when it's just tossed at you for free. It does not help combat in pvp either. Deflect would be a much better stat to focus on. It is melee after all.
Well I guess this the end. Combat will remain a joke again for another 6 modules because no one will listen. People simply won't test it themselves in IWD or where ever and realize how terrible and why it is. It showed evidence of at-wills under half the DPS of what other classes have, and yet there are still excuses. Test it yourself!
Why do you think no one uses combat!? How many modules has it been?
I have never been asking for Combat to do the DPS of a GWF. I been asking for them to do more DPS than support builds and tanks!!!
However, I am thinking, contrary to @ghoulz66's suggestion of a blanket at-will buff, I think the buff to at-wills should come from a higher-tier feat, just to keep the other specs from being overpowered.
something like "Increases your damage with Melee at-wills by 25/50/75/100/150%"
place it in the spot where Battle Crazed is. or simply change Battle Crazed to do this. this ensures that the other specs can't get this AND their Capstone, preventing such a buff from being overpowered in a Trapper or Archery spec.
Trapper is too busy cycling through powers. Sure, you could root something and slash them to death, but that won't have any part in a group run. Trapper wants to cycle through to make the most of it's best powers quickly. Besides, even with all the current combat buffs the tree offers, the at-wills are still dealing LESS damage than Thorned Roots just for insult to injury. Trappers wouldn't want to spam at-wills!
What is the point of testing on preview when my feedback is X path is performing horrific still and all my suggestions are ignored? I have given the most simple solution possible to improve the path! I didn't say to rework anything. What harm is there in applying my suggestions to the game? They're quick and easy to change.
If they somehow did lead to over performance.. well, you guys always tone it back down, just like everything else that happened. Like with spell storm class feature critting? We are never going to find out if you don't make a large sudden change like this. We're running out of time.
I agree that Combat still needs work. I'm sad that I couldn't dedicate more time to Combat this module. HR is, unfortunately - due to stance switching - twice the size of every other class (with the exception of Devoted Cleric, due to Divine and Empowered modes), and considerably more complex. Our testing shows that we'll likely start seeing some viable builds pop up with Archery, and Trapper won't be going anywhere. It'd be awesome if Combat was also there. Getting to these places takes time, and I hope that you can trust that our goal is to make our game - which is something many, many people at Cryptic invest their hearts and souls into - the best game it can be.
@ghoulz66 I'm sorry that you've become frustrated by this process. You've provided a ton of very useful feedback during this class review, as have many, many other people. Communication on the forums can be difficult, and I'm only able to spend so much time on here, while also continuing to work on improving the game. Unfortunately, we are very leery of making big sweeping changes that could potentially lead to something being very overpowered without the proper amount of time to test it. Releasing a huge buff, which then causes everyone to switch to that spec, and then nerfing it, is not something we're big fans of doing. Yes, it has happened, but we're always sad when it does.
Try to keep in mind that, while the amount of changes we can still make this module are very small, this is an MMO, and things will constantly change. More changes to the class will come, and hopefully sooner rather than later.
Is it possible to combine a range encounter with another Meele encounter than it's present counterpart?
As an example putting marauder escape with ambush without to much hours of programming.
A 7k crit up to 14k, along with piercing blade slapped in. A GWF still deals DOUBLE of this.
Combat has to gimp it's own crit in the process. GWFs and TRs, and archery HRs will yield A LOT more crits than combat. And their crits hit harder still. Even CWs with their non-crit spell storm procs will hit harder still. EVEN THORNED ROOTS.
Character: Vendetta
This one got missed in the last set of patch notes -
- Hunter Ranger: Battle Crazed: Now grants Deflection Chance instead of Life Steal Chance.
And two more bug fixes: