Well we want be able to test it out with its larger area of coverage till next week so we shall see and giving that it erupts when an enemy enters it so puff gone you will still need to cast it again after its 10.8 sec timer is up .Having it cast at ones feet will also help it out so can only hope . At this time I dont see either it damage buff or even with its defensive buff being worth the time or effort to make use of it . Shall see soon.
0
Options
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Bunny hopping Ring Around the Rosie meta incoming.
Bunny hopping Ring Around the Rosie meta incoming.
L0L you read my mind. I have even had TRs tell me I make them dizzy watching me play a never ending circle of death . And I am very much look forward to testing that macjae. Thank you.
Just want to throw it out there that we can do a better job of getting our points across in a more constructive manner. I did LOL at the "Sitting Duck" encounter name, though.
Imagine being a developer and trying to extract useful information about the HR proposed class changes from their preview thread. (It's getting messy and off topic over there and I would hate to see that happen here.)
While I agree with the majority of the feedback everyone is providing regarding Hellbringer, Damnation, and Temptation damage buffs, let's try to wait until these changes hit the preview server and give them a go before we head down the road of theorycrafting negativity. Amenar has been pretty responsive with us and I would love to keep it that way.
0
Options
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Please change the targeting of Gates of Hell to a normal AoE so it doesn't keep missing!
Really good. It would be simply amazing gates of hell to work like oppressive force.
0
Options
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited July 2016
Shadow slip is too powerfull in my opinion now, 1 second imunity perfect, now 100% initial DR and taking in consideration the reaplies, it's really powerfull when paired on a templock in pvp, 60% was just right.
Shadow slip is too powerfull in my opinion now, 1 second imunity perfect, now 100% initial DR and taking in consideration the reaplies, it's really powerfull when paired on a templock in pvp, 60% was just right.
Shouldn't we wait until the updated Shadow Slip is on the Test Shard, and we've all had time to actually experimented with it in PvE/PvP before we started crying about 'OP'-ness?
I mean, sure, it looks really good and I think it will be good. Could it be OP? Maybe. However, let's not go all Chicken Little on this and say the sky is falling...
0
Options
pyrosorcererMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
Shadow slip is too powerfull in my opinion now, 1 second imunity perfect, now 100% initial DR and taking in consideration the reaplies, it's really powerfull when paired on a templock in pvp, 60% was just right.
Yes, been thinking it might be quite strong, BUT if I have read correctly they track reactivations so you can't get perma immunity, so I think there will be some time limit after leaving shadow slip before it will go back up to immunity. So if you shift for 3 sec and go down to 40%, maybe you have to wait 3 sec before it goes back to immunity when entering shadow slip again. If not it will be the same 40%, or it raises the same way by granting 20% for each second off shadow slip.
Before making conclusions lets wait. I see a very dangerous combination of powers that indeed worry me, but I can't tell if I didnt try it. Lets say, you use pillar+Blades+spheres and you stay turning and turning inside the pillar range, probably the damage is not going to be enough to kill, but if they decide to buff this skills too much and keep the damage inmunity its like nobody would be able to get close to them without getting themself killed while the SW is in god-mode.
0
Options
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Shadow slip is too powerfull in my opinion now, 1 second imunity perfect, now 100% initial DR and taking in consideration the reaplies, it's really powerfull when paired on a temptation in pvp.
But a temptation SW can't do anything other than that. They're not killing an equally geared character of any other class. They don't heal their team much at all, because they have low damage to begin with thanks to tenacity, and healing depression applies twice over; first to their life steal and then to their outgoing healing.
I know, that can be very frustrating but i am expecting changes to temptation and a change to tenacity, maybe not in a near time, tenacity needs rework, not just temptation warlocks, atm we see people dancing for 5-6 minutes until someone comits a failure and dies, when that change comes, 100% DR that can be reactivated upon each shadowslip is definitively too much.
0
Options
pyrosorcererMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
I don't think that the 100% DR can be reactivated between each shadowslip.
Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Increased speed by 15%. Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Now provides damage immunity for 1 second after activation, and loses 20% damage resistance per second while it is active, down to a minimum of 40% (this timer persist through rapid reapplications).
By there it states the timer persists through rapid reapplications, so there is a cooldown between immunity for shadwoslip.
What I am lookng forward to test is the changes to Tyrannical Curse once it is fixed. The casting time should be drastically reduced if they haven't already improved that though.
I still wonder how will Sw kill anything with current changes, we lack damage, compared to live version, we got a nerf, and it's not that we are on a good spot on live.
It's more a crutch removal than a nerf in the true sense of the term
TT->TC it appears a nerf but it was absolutely ridiculous to have to spam this daily right and left to even function in the same bracket than other damage dealers. It had become so important in the playstyle of a majority of SW than we could ask why it wasn't in the class mechanic (yeah just tab and you have TT - I know it offensive my bad) It's not the role of a daily to shore up a conceptual flaw in a class. It got the axe and rightly so.
Multimilion damage puppet -> as explained it was a bug exploit, and a boring one at that. It's normal to clean the game of such.
Very murderous flames -> also an eploit, also logic to clean.
in addition to this 3 modifications that could be taken as 'nerfs' we had a few ups:
Creeping death proccing on any power: fine and dandy BoVa is a real buzzsaw that now provide to the defense allowing it to be used as it's meant to several power buffs, most noticeably Fiery bolt with its curse synergy instead of curse consume
several feat update that do away with a lot of the ridiculously low added damage of a few % weapon damage.
Maybe the class will feel it deals less damage, maybe it will be the opposite. In any case the class will be in a saner state, with a more consistent basis for analysis in the event of further tweaking of the class
Shadow slip is too powerfull in my opinion now, 1 second imunity perfect, now 100% initial DR and taking in consideration the reaplies, it's really powerfull when paired on a temptation in pvp.
But a temptation SW can't do anything other than that. They're not killing an equally geared character of any other class. They don't heal their team much at all, because they have low damage to begin with thanks to tenacity, and healing depression applies twice over; first to their life steal and then to their outgoing healing.
like you said, when something appear to be broken should be avoided. Right? maybe we should look at the base class capabilities instead of using broken band aid... 1 seconds immunity + how SW shift works cant reach live servers (or maybe introduce a cooldown of 6-7 seconds)
100% damage resistance when shifting, well it's almost as good as many classes currently has. CW DC HR TR they all have immunity when shifting, but unlike them TR's SE will still get pierce our shifting. So i don't think that 100% damage resistance is gonna be too OP for us, but i agree testing is needed to be sure.
I don't think that the 100% DR can be reactivated between each shadowslip.
Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Increased speed by 15%. Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Now provides damage immunity for 1 second after activation, and loses 20% damage resistance per second while it is active, down to a minimum of 40% (this timer persist through rapid reapplications).
By there it states the timer persists through rapid reapplications, so there is a cooldown between immunity for shadwoslip.
What I am lookng forward to test is the changes to Tyrannical Curse once it is fixed. The casting time should be drastically reduced if they haven't already improved that though.
It's more a crutch removal than a nerf in the true sense of the term
TT->TC it appears a nerf but it was absolutely ridiculous to have to spam this daily right and left to even function in the same bracket than other damage dealers. It had become so important in the playstyle of a majority of SW than we could ask why it wasn't in the class mechanic (yeah just tab and you have TT - I know it offensive my bad) It's not the role of a daily to shore up a conceptual flaw in a class. It got the axe and rightly so.
Multimilion damage puppet -> as explained it was a bug exploit, and a boring one at that. It's normal to clean the game of such.
Very murderous flames -> also an eploit, also logic to clean.
in addition to this 3 modifications that could be taken as 'nerfs' we had a few ups:
Creeping death proccing on any power: fine and dandy BoVa is a real buzzsaw that now provide to the defense allowing it to be used as it's meant to several power buffs, most noticeably Fiery bolt with its curse synergy instead of curse consume
several feat update that do away with a lot of the ridiculously low added damage of a few % weapon damage.
Maybe the class will feel it deals less damage, maybe it will be the opposite. In any case the class will be in a saner state, with a more consistent basis for analysis in the event of further tweaking of the class
The above did a very good job at pointing out things and am sure testing shall show us. We cant even be sure as to our place until all the other classes have had a turn at this . This is however a good time for other striker class to get some idea as to what is coming down the line so perhaps they want feel to bad till all is done. And some final tweaks can happen. Good Day...
The issue w/ balancing sprints vs. dodges is that sprints also have the adv in better granularity that makes them better to use for, say, animation canceling. It a tricky balancing point to be sure, but I'd prob settle on an immunity phase w/ a very brief icd- but making that icd display as a self-debuff so you have a way to tell when its up.
Or.. another system (more complicated but perhaps more flexible): SW's have a 'Shadow Evasion' buff on at all times which is stacked at 2-3x (somewhat depending on how long we're making the immune phase) that grants a brief immunity phase when you next shadow slip. Stacks of this get consumed w/ each shadow slip activation, and each stack has a short refill cd that gets displayed as a self-debuff. This buff could have its max stacks increase by 1-2 w/ a feat, or something.
Anyways, Flames of Phlegethos still hasn't been buffed alongside most of the other dailies. Do the devs think its fine where it is?
We haven't even gotten to test it yet, so saying whether it's overpowered or whether TRs will still be one-shotting SWs is still up in the air.
but he will do some work for it, which by the looks of it it's not necesarly OP , but just weird ... and does look stupid.
we should bump the other idea of having shift decrease the incoming damage by a x% rather than giving immunity frames, it should just block the damage by % or someth, a layer that cannot be pierced by shocking execution ofc.
Good idea. Something like: Activating shadowslip will consume 30% of your stamina, for the next 3 seconds you will take 40% less damage from all sources, this effect can only trigger once every 6 seconds. Shadowslip would work as 40% DR all the times, this way it would be very unlikely for a fury/damnation to recast this protection over and over, making temptation in advantage due to rapid stamina regain and wouldn't be OP and it would be a better protection against TR's since SE can be canceled by roll and 1second is very unreliable and also make use of lifesteal/healing techniques since in imunity there would be nothing to heal if we did get all the hit blocked.
I would rather have all our DoTs at 6 secs rather than the current mismatch of 8 for creeping death, 6 for the curse consume of SS, 4 for the lesser curse, I don't really know the values for harrowstorm, wraith shadow, Flames of the phlegetos, hellish rebuke, warlock bargain or hadar's grasp. But I'm nitpicking.
I'm jsut saying, an harmonization of the durations/number of ticks could have its advantages
I am epic amused when guys claim that with upcoming shadow slip changes warlock will become Overpowered.. Sure 1s immunity is big stuff, But does it? Lets see.
CW - Telepor>>
Quickly teleport out of the way of incoming attacks, moving you 25 feet in any direction.
Well since I played with CW I know one stuff. When I hit Teleport I screw up either boos or player because that second I have immunity to any incoming powers.
DC - Dodge >>
Quickly shift out of the way of incoming attacks, moves you 8 feet in any direction.
I have this class character, went through lot of fights, and have been in role to attract monsters in epic dungeon, And even when I am in danger/red area either tiamat, pvp or whatever, If I use Dodge I immune to any incoming hit. So I assume its give immunity.
HR -Shift >> Quickly
shift out of the way of incoming attacks, moving you 8 feet in any direction. This power and all other Tactical dodge powers grant invulnerability frames during and for ~1 second after use. During this time, you cannot be CCed or damaged.
Its written in NWO wiki
So lets compare now with warlock 1s immunity. in possible scenarios pve: U are surrounded by group of monsters or u are in red/danger area. So:
CW hit shift and in that time 1s immunity + move away by 25 feet. = no damage u get. Hr - immune to any incoming hit and move 8 feet. = no damage u get DC - Moving 8 feets away. (never been killed while using shift so = immunity ), u get away.
SW - hit shift, animation got rendered and u already out of 1s immunity> then in your mind u can scream> This is SPARTA!!!. And yet u still don't have 100% guarantee to reach safe position alive.
pvp: CW - gwf, tr start hit u, < = teleport away in range(25 feet)from close range fighters + 1s immunity then u can cast encounters, daily powers whatever..
DC - hit shift 1s immune and move 8 feet from incoming attack. not far 8feet but yet negate incoming strike.
Hr - facing gwf, shift = step away shoot some arrows to a**s, once he try get away, u dash in front of him stab knife in a**s, if try hit u, u jump away once again.
Lets take same situation with warlock. U are attacked either TR, HR. GWF lets say even other warlock. You hit shift< unleash overpowered dodge mechanic called shadow slip< And once on your screen shadow slip animation got rendered u already out of 1s immunity. <<< But wait, we are still overpowered, we try move away from danger< bahh, u hit ground dead -_- << But wait, players told me that this shift mechanic is overpowered even before its release... (sorry for sarcasm).
If u guys think that 1s is a lot use mobile phones chronometer to check its length. And check what u can do in that 1s. Cw's,dc's,hr's,gwf's,gf's,op,sw encounter/daily power, casting take longer. In order utilize this 1s immunity even in pve u will had to hit shift just right on moment when incoming strike reach warlocks skin< Then u could negate incoming strike/cc, And lag will be ugly as ever.
So does it change a lot.< nahh. maybe on paper but not in action. It will boost warlocks survivability but will not change situation in general. After all warlocks dessing itself is around DoT based powers + life steal. And shadow slip where only to slightly boost resist against incoming hit, while DoT effect trigger life steal and restoring HP. Thats why warlock had biggest impact in mod 6 release than other classes. Enough to even check warlocks temptation warlock. All healing comes from life steal. We need not buff deffences/deflects only but life steal too. Or warlocks desing should be rebuild from zero.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
0
Options
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
In reality, the SW gets a couple extra dodges to avoid damage, but at the cost of having stamina regen delayed for a moment after you slip.
The TR and DC on the other hand have their stamina continue to regen immediately after dodging.
It's really not as powerful as people are freaking out over.
Comments
Imagine being a developer and trying to extract useful information about the HR proposed class changes from their preview thread. (It's getting messy and off topic over there and I would hate to see that happen here.)
While I agree with the majority of the feedback everyone is providing regarding Hellbringer, Damnation, and Temptation damage buffs, let's try to wait until these changes hit the preview server and give them a go before we head down the road of theorycrafting negativity. Amenar has been pretty responsive with us and I would love to keep it that way.
Shouldn't we wait until the updated Shadow Slip is on the Test Shard, and we've all had time to actually experimented with it in PvE/PvP before we started crying about 'OP'-ness?
I mean, sure, it looks really good and I think it will be good. Could it be OP? Maybe. However, let's not go all Chicken Little on this and say the sky is falling...
I know, that can be very frustrating but i am expecting changes to temptation and a change to tenacity, maybe not in a near time, tenacity needs rework, not just temptation warlocks, atm we see people dancing for 5-6 minutes until someone comits a failure and dies, when that change comes, 100% DR that can be reactivated upon each shadowslip is definitively too much.
Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Increased speed by 15%.
Scourge Warlock: Shadow Slip: Now provides damage immunity for 1 second after activation, and loses 20% damage resistance per second while it is active, down to a minimum of 40% (this timer persist through rapid reapplications).
By there it states the timer persists through rapid reapplications, so there is a cooldown between immunity for shadwoslip.
What I am lookng forward to test is the changes to Tyrannical Curse once it is fixed. The casting time should be drastically reduced if they haven't already improved that though.
TT->TC it appears a nerf but it was absolutely ridiculous to have to spam this daily right and left to even function in the same bracket than other damage dealers. It had become so important in the playstyle of a majority of SW than we could ask why it wasn't in the class mechanic (yeah just tab and you have TT - I know it offensive my bad) It's not the role of a daily to shore up a conceptual flaw in a class. It got the axe and rightly so.
Multimilion damage puppet -> as explained it was a bug exploit, and a boring one at that. It's normal to clean the game of such.
Very murderous flames -> also an eploit, also logic to clean.
in addition to this 3 modifications that could be taken as 'nerfs' we had a few ups:
Creeping death proccing on any power: fine and dandy
BoVa is a real buzzsaw that now provide to the defense allowing it to be used as it's meant to
several power buffs, most noticeably Fiery bolt with its curse synergy instead of curse consume
several feat update that do away with a lot of the ridiculously low added damage of a few % weapon damage.
Maybe the class will feel it deals less damage, maybe it will be the opposite. In any case the class will be in a saner state, with a more consistent basis for analysis in the event of further tweaking of the class
1 seconds immunity + how SW shift works cant reach live servers (or maybe introduce a cooldown of 6-7 seconds)
So i don't think that 100% damage resistance is gonna be too OP for us, but i agree testing is needed to be sure.
Or.. another system (more complicated but perhaps more flexible): SW's have a 'Shadow Evasion' buff on at all times which is stacked at 2-3x (somewhat depending on how long we're making the immune phase) that grants a brief immunity phase when you next shadow slip. Stacks of this get consumed w/ each shadow slip activation, and each stack has a short refill cd that gets displayed as a self-debuff. This buff could have its max stacks increase by 1-2 w/ a feat, or something.
Anyways, Flames of Phlegethos still hasn't been buffed alongside most of the other dailies. Do the devs think its fine where it is?
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
I'm jsut saying, an harmonization of the durations/number of ticks could have its advantages
Lets see.
CW - Telepor>> Well since I played with CW I know one stuff. When I hit Teleport I screw up either boos or player because that second I have immunity to any incoming powers.
DC - Dodge >> I have this class character, went through lot of fights, and have been in role to attract monsters in epic dungeon,
And even when I am in danger/red area either tiamat, pvp or whatever, If I use Dodge I immune to any incoming hit. So I assume its give immunity.
HR -Shift >> Quickly Its written in NWO wiki
So lets compare now with warlock 1s immunity. in possible scenarios
pve:
U are surrounded by group of monsters or u are in red/danger area.
So:
CW hit shift and in that time 1s immunity + move away by 25 feet. = no damage u get.
Hr - immune to any incoming hit and move 8 feet. = no damage u get
DC - Moving 8 feets away. (never been killed while using shift so = immunity ), u get away.
SW - hit shift, animation got rendered and u already out of 1s immunity> then in your mind u can scream> This is SPARTA!!!.
And yet u still don't have 100% guarantee to reach safe position alive.
pvp:
CW - gwf, tr start hit u, < = teleport away in range(25 feet)from close range fighters + 1s immunity then u can cast encounters, daily powers whatever..
DC - hit shift 1s immune and move 8 feet from incoming attack. not far 8feet but yet negate incoming strike.
Hr - facing gwf, shift = step away shoot some arrows to a**s, once he try get away, u dash in front of him stab knife in a**s, if try hit u, u jump away once again.
Lets take same situation with warlock.
U are attacked either TR, HR. GWF lets say even other warlock.
You hit shift< unleash overpowered dodge mechanic called shadow slip<
And once on your screen shadow slip animation got rendered u already out of 1s immunity. <<< But wait, we are still overpowered, we try move away from danger< bahh, u hit ground dead -_- <<
But wait, players told me that this shift mechanic is overpowered even before its release... (sorry for sarcasm).
If u guys think that 1s is a lot use mobile phones chronometer to check its length. And check what u can do in that 1s.
Cw's,dc's,hr's,gwf's,gf's,op,sw encounter/daily power, casting take longer.
In order utilize this 1s immunity even in pve u will had to hit shift just right on moment when incoming strike reach warlocks skin< Then u could negate incoming strike/cc, And lag will be ugly as ever.
So does it change a lot.< nahh. maybe on paper but not in action.
It will boost warlocks survivability but will not change situation in general.
After all warlocks dessing itself is around DoT based powers + life steal.
And shadow slip where only to slightly boost resist against incoming hit, while DoT effect trigger life steal and restoring HP.
Thats why warlock had biggest impact in mod 6 release than other classes. Enough to even check warlocks temptation warlock. All healing comes from life steal. We need not buff deffences/deflects only but life steal too. Or warlocks desing should be rebuild from zero.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
The TR and DC on the other hand have their stamina continue to regen immediately after dodging.
It's really not as powerful as people are freaking out over.