The PVP queue is dead even during double glory weekend

feanor70118
feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,158 Arc User
This should be a wake-up call to Cryptic to do some real class balancing at long last and to separate the single and group pvp queues. Time will tell.
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Comments

  • elrondknight
    elrondknight Member Posts: 109 Arc User

    This should be a wake-up call to Cryptic to do some real class balancing at long last and to separate the single and group pvp queues. Time will tell.

    Perhaps this should be a wake up call to the pvp community. I TRIED to PvP this weekend. I am a pug player. I had to beg to be allowed to cap 2 times so that I did not waste my 15 mins for NO REWARDS> There is a reason that players choose not to PvP & for most of us, it has nothing to do with class balance.
  • kalina311
    kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    +1 @feanor70118

    This should be a wake-up call to Cryptic to do some real class balancing at long last and to separate the single and group pvp queues. Time will tell.


    I asked The devs in the lastest patch notes

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1217704/maze-engine-preview-patch-notes-nw-62-20160613a-3

  • kalina311
    kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User
    edited June 2016

    This should be a wake-up call to Cryptic to do some real class balancing at long last and to separate the single and group pvp queues. Time will tell.

    Perhaps this should be a wake up call to the pvp community. I TRIED to PvP this weekend. I am a pug player. I had to beg to be allowed to cap 2 times so that I did not waste my 15 mins for NO REWARDS> There is a reason that players choose not to PvP & for most of us, it has nothing to do with class balance.
    If classes and matches and item levels were Balanced you would not have to beg to cap you would have already earned the points needed with game play during the match

    what exactly are you missing that you need to get with these "rewards/ glory " anyways ?
    maybe i can help
  • elrondknight
    elrondknight Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    kalina311 said:

    This should be a wake-up call to Cryptic to do some real class balancing at long last and to separate the single and group pvp queues. Time will tell.

    Perhaps this should be a wake up call to the pvp community. I TRIED to PvP this weekend. I am a pug player. I had to beg to be allowed to cap 2 times so that I did not waste my 15 mins for NO REWARDS> There is a reason that players choose not to PvP & for most of us, it has nothing to do with class balance.
    If classes and matches and item levels were Balanced you would not have to beg to cap you would have already earned the points needed with game play during the match

    what exactly are you missing that you need to get with these "rewards/ glory " anyways ?
    maybe i can help
    Right now i'm just trying to save up enuff glory for the dancing blade. I gave up on the PvP gearz along time ago. The "entry lvl" 60 gearz are 24k glory for the set. I managed to get 8k b4 I hit lv 60 & gave up on regular PvP attempts. BiS is well outside any reasonable farming schedule.


  • vinceent1
    vinceent1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    its not about wake up call

    they only care about playstation launch right now

    they probably already started theorycrafting longterm pvp goal with new mode

    from the forum perspective, nothing will happen till PS launch settle down, after that we will see
  • kalina311
    kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User
    edited June 2016

    kalina311 said:

    This should be a wake-up call to Cryptic to do some real class balancing at long last and to separate the single and group pvp queues. Time will tell.

    Perhaps this should be a wake up call to the pvp community. I TRIED to PvP this weekend. I am a pug player. I had to beg to be allowed to cap 2 times so that I did not waste my 15 mins for NO REWARDS> There is a reason that players choose not to PvP & for most of us, it has nothing to do with class balance.
    If classes and matches and item levels were Balanced you would not have to beg to cap you would have already earned the points needed with game play during the match

    what exactly are you missing that you need to get with these "rewards/ glory " anyways ?
    maybe i can help
    Right now i'm just trying to save up enuff glory for the dancing blade. I gave up on the PvP gearz along time ago. The "entry lvl" 60 gearz are 24k glory for the set. I managed to get 8k b4 I hit lv 60 & gave up on regular PvP attempts. BiS is well outside any reasonable farming schedule.


    There is a glory booster pack you can get to increase how much you get
    also if you get some junk extra equipment and put silvery in the utility slots you will get more glory when the match ends if you temp swap to it ... this will help speed things up a lot like 10-30% more

    silvery enchantments gives glory boost in utility slots
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Many old players already finished pvp rewards and are working on other things....

    Many new players walked into pvp and got the beat down and never went back....

    All that is left are those who have not obtained the rewards, and even they stopped caring about the to titles and boon.
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  • rschrager
    rschrager Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 59 Arc User
    Mixing and matching experienced players and inexperienced players is hard. To keep veteran players involved, they need to give them something to work for - like points to add to skill trees, or better gear. Unfortunately, that just widens the gap between the have's and the have not's.

    In the perfect world, there would be more of a skill/strategy component of PVP, but I see very little of that in this game right now. It's frustrating, but the more you segregate players, the smaller the population is in each group, and the longer it takes for a queue to pop. Both options suck, but I think I'd rather see 'timely' pops and face the risk (ok - the near guaranty) of a beat-down every few matches - but at least the matches happen - than to sit in a queue forever waiting for some magical algorithm to come up with perfect pug matches.
  • voidgift
    voidgift Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 286 Arc User
    Nah, there should definitely be IL brackets. The only problem I see with that is people intentionally keeping their IL right beneeth the limit.

    I tried making a new pvp toon the other day to get some glory for our pvp structure. I admit, I only gave her cheap <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear and free stuff. But in three matches I met three premades. It wouldn't have made a difference if I gave her 10 millions to buy gear for.

    I don't see any way for new people to get into pvp if this is the way it is. Maybe they should make a way so the premades always face premades. And pugs fight pugs.

    Going into pvp now is just stupid for a non pvp player. You spend one hour to get 1k glory.
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  • ayroux
    ayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    voidgift said:

    Nah, there should definitely be IL brackets. The only problem I see with that is people intentionally keeping their IL right beneeth the limit.



    I tried making a new pvp toon the other day to get some glory for our pvp structure. I admit, I only gave her cheap **** gear and free stuff. But in three matches I met three premades. It wouldn't have made a difference if I gave her 10 millions to buy gear for.



    I don't see any way for new people to get into pvp if this is the way it is. Maybe they should make a way so the premades always face premades. And pugs fight pugs.



    Going into pvp now is just stupid for a non pvp player. You spend one hour to get 1k glory.

    The BEST suggestion I have seen to address PVP is to allow for a "dual spec" tab. In which you click on your "PVP tab" which is a very simplistic Character Sheet. You click on the dropdown for each item slot (Helm, Gloves, Chest, etc) and it allows you to pick from ANY item in your inventory or bank to "fill" into that slot. This is the character that is put into domination when it pops.

    Now why this is the best suggestion I have seen is, you can now strip away a bunch of the gear gap that has only increased since the beginning of modules. You can strip awap ALL boons - even stronghold boons, in domination.

    You can strip away ALL mount bonuses, insignias, etc. Pet stats would stay as not affecting domination as well.

    You can strip away secondary artifact stats and only have 1 slot for a primary....

    So when you click on this tab and you select all your gear, its a very trimmed down (stat wise) character that now you have a MUCH smaller gear gap. All that other stuff (Boons, mounts, insignias, artifacts) are all PVE power creep only.

    What you have done is created a much smaller gear gap between the casual and the BIS player where now, sure a few thousand stat points stand between the characters, but currently there are TENS of thousands of stat points (if not maybe even over 100k in stat points) over the casual. Its no wonder why PVP is no fun for anyone.

    This "PVP" tab can then be used to allow players to PVE in full power and full pve gear, select exactly what version of their character (gear wise) goes into a "simplistic" PVP domination and when it pops not have to worry about gear swaps and what not. It can then later evolve into allowing for actual dual character spec too, which would further allow you to have fun in PVE while not "gimping" yourself for another type of play.

    I think this is the only hope Cryptic has in bringing players back to PVP. This and removing the stupid stealth rings...
  • elrondknight
    elrondknight Member Posts: 109 Arc User

    Many old players already finished pvp rewards and are working on other things....



    Many new players walked into pvp and got the beat down and never went back....



    All that is left are those who have not obtained the rewards, and even they stopped caring about the to titles and boon.

    Personally, I gave up on the PvP boons when Burning set became BiS. It was @ this point that it became nearly impossible for a casual player to unlock the killing 100 enemies portion of the boon rewards.
  • rschrager
    rschrager Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 59 Arc User
    While I still don't think balanced 'pairings' would work without increasing the pool of players to draw teams from by about 10x, there are plenty of programmatic ways to keep people from dressing down to get a lower draw match, then throwing on their BIS enchantments and upgraded artifacts once the teams have formed. Hell, if it was me I'd write code specifically to identify people who did that and them mock them openly in the game - like adding an un-removable 'I cheat at PvP' sign around their necks for a week. Vindictive? Ok... maybe a little, but how else do you justify doing that for any reason other than that you're lame and want to game the system to take advantage of weaker players?

    And again, just to clarify, I'm not opposed to a system that better balances the teams, but I don't want to sit in the queue for 4 hours waiting for 9 more guys just like me to show up in order to achieve it.
  • feanor70118
    feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,158 Arc User
    pan17 said:


    ''..pvp is dead even during 2x glory event..'' ...What did you expect ...2k players full of joy to queue solo for pvp dom against 4k players premades ....?
    some months ago i had created a thread for the same event asking the question ''2x glory event is usefull ,for who ... premades..?..''
    No cryptic devs replied of course...

    Yes, thank your for that productive and useful (one L, by the way) response, which trenchantly observes that I must, for some reason, disagree with you even though I raised a point with which you obviously sympathize. Have a nice day.
  • revovlerjesus1
    revovlerjesus1 Member Posts: 481 Arc User
    Beating a dead horse to many times. Game is dead as disco with insignias+ boons + mounts + alot of other broken things. But GL
  • feanor70118
    feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,158 Arc User

    Beating a dead horse to many times. Game is dead as disco with insignias+ boons + mounts + alot of other broken things. But GL

    Thank you for yet another productive comment that is keenly relevant to the topic at hand.
  • fastrean3
    fastrean3 Member Posts: 281 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    Besides the premade and unbalance team mapping factor.

    Some player may be like my situation, glory pool is full and already get full set or farming sh siege aim for lion set. there are not need to do dominantion to farm glory.

    Btw, if u r fresh 70 with no pvp gear, no matter go to domination or sh siege, u are just being easy defeat there and try ur luck if ur side are winning, both are long term pain farmming, then why no just farm sh siege for the final pvp gear lion set instead of burning set?
  • revovlerjesus1
    revovlerjesus1 Member Posts: 481 Arc User

    Beating a dead horse to many times. Game is dead as disco with insignias+ boons + mounts + alot of other broken things. But GL

    Thank you for yet another productive comment that is keenly relevant to the topic at hand.
    I have been giving my input on how to fix the pvp sceen PLENTY of times during the years, but no one listen. Its time to understand that cryptic dont want any endgame users in this game. Why would they? No they only need new players joining the game for a few weeks/ months that spend some $ in the ZEN-store.

    Then realise it will cost them several 1000$ or years to be BiS. Says to them self screw this and moves along. THIS is the best customer for cryptic.
  • urabask
    urabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    fastrean3 said:

    Besides the premade and unbalance team mapping factor.



    Some player may be like my situation, glory pool is full and already get full set or farming sh siege aim for lion set. there are not need to do dominantion to farm glory.



    Btw, if u r fresh 70 with no pvp gear, no matter go to domination or sh siege, u are just being easy defeat there and try ur luck if ur side are winning, both are long term pain farmming, then why no just farm sh siege for the final pvp gear lion set instead of burning set?

    Yeah lol go farm in the queue that pops twice a week or some nonsense.

    I keep hearing this worry that players will change gear to trick matchmaking. The solution to that is leaderboards for each bracket. There will not be much pride in knowing that everyone knows you are BIS in 2k-3k PVP instead of 4k PVP. Shame has a way of changing behaviors.

    Or just don't let them change gear once they've entered a match.

    Beating a dead horse to many times. Game is dead as disco with insignias+ boons + mounts + alot of other broken things. But GL

    Thank you for yet another productive comment that is keenly relevant to the topic at hand.
    I have been giving my input on how to fix the pvp sceen PLENTY of times during the years, but no one listen. Its time to understand that cryptic dont want any endgame users in this game. Why would they? No they only need new players joining the game for a few weeks/ months that spend some $ in the ZEN-store.

    Then realise it will cost them several 1000$ or years to be BiS. Says to them self **** this and moves along. THIS is the best customer for cryptic.
    No it isn't. This is nonsense perpetuated by people that think server MMO publishers/studios somehow try to save money on server costs by churning their players at ridiculous rates. MMO publishers want to avoid that because once they get someone in game and have them spend money AND continue to play the game they're much more likely to spend money again than another random new player. Getting a player to continue to play the game for more than three months is their ultimate goal because those are their best customers.
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  • vinceent1
    vinceent1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    revovlerjesus1 has right if the new player is whole playstation genre. cryptic is not first company who push PC version to the sideline completely when they develop console

    on the other hand once they have nowhere to expand they should focus on overall game improvements and not only whats relevant for playstation launch.

  • urlord283
    urlord283 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,079 Arc User
    Yes it is... and ask yourself why...

    It is not anything the devs can fix

    The player attitude finely drove me away after 3 years

    how many others also?

    That needs to be addressed
  • faerbot
    faerbot Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    I don't think there are more than 40 or so PVPers left (I use the term loosely, as anyone that wants a PVP game has left ages ago). I queue only for the7kish AD you get from your 1st 2 queues and what I usually get on the other side is the same premade. There is nothing Cryptic can do at this point to revive PVP. The level of reward they would have to provide to entice the average player into a Dom que is unacceptable to them, as I have played many games both PVP and PVE and players will only play what nets them the most value for their time. Only rewards will bring any kind of diversity to PVP. Otherwise youre only going to get camp sitters.
  • playasinnombre
    playasinnombre Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    morenthar said:

    @defiantone99



    Lowbies dying more easily is inconsequential to the point.



    I was talking about BiS vs BiS.



    Also, lowbies would be unaffected if bracketing was in place.


    " Lowbies dying more easily is inconsequential... " This is a part of the problem.



  • urabask
    urabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    morenthar said:

    @defiantone99



    Lowbies dying more easily is inconsequential to the point.



    I was talking about BiS vs BiS.



    Also, lowbies would be unaffected if bracketing was in place.

    Rofl this is pretty much the entire problem with PvP in one post.

    vinceent1 said:

    revovlerjesus1 has right if the new player is whole playstation genre. cryptic is not first company who push PC version to the sideline completely when they develop console

    on the other hand once they have nowhere to expand they should focus on overall game improvements and not only whats relevant for playstation launch.

    ...

    Cryptic has released mods at the usual rate and we're still getting PS4 in three weeks. Once they've got it ported to PS4 this is a non-issue because they'll be developing the same content for all three platforms.
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  • icyphish
    icyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    calm down boys the Buelette has just came back in Bulettezilla form yayyyyyy!
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • kalina311
    kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User

    I keep hearing this worry that players will change gear to trick matchmaking. The solution to that is leaderboards for each bracket. There will not be much pride in knowing that everyone knows you are BIS in 2k-3k PVP instead of 4k PVP. Shame has a way of changing behaviors.

    +1