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Announcing The Maze Engine: Guild Alliances!

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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    I'd also like to see what's going to be addressed on the "single player guilds" that many players have just for an additional personal bank instead of actually having a guild. IE those sorts that advertise " pay you 50 gold to form a guild with me, only need two people" etc. These are already a "cheat" on the guild system. I dread thinking of one full guild that draws in say... 20 of those as well.

    This is officially not an exploit. The person who owns a guild like that has to pay for the bank slots and deal with the risk of a guild bank being "uninsured" if their account is hacked.

    If there are people who own a storage guild and are actually trying to do anything SH-related with it, they are a minority. Storage guilds are a place to park alts you don't really play.

    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 932 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    Unless they limit tier 2 and tier 3 guilds from being larger than a certain level this will be a devastating blow to small guilds.

    Pretending that guilds at lever 15+ joining forces will help guilds at level 9- is just laughable.

    If the big guilds is forced to take lower level guilds in alliance it might work else it will be harmful to all guild lower than rank 12

    Oh and almost forgot there is now the what 5th mod in a row with NO NEW CONTENT. That means no new replay able content and no new dungeons. Their is not even a mention of more of the reworked dungeons returning for level 70 players(and please no turning dungeons we loved into demonic encounters)
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • rannonhurannonhu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 41 Arc User
    Guild alliance - why? There's no content for that. Need more epic dungeons and more valuable boe rewards.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    mynaam said:

    Unless they limit tier 2 and tier 3 guilds from being larger than a certain level this will be a devastating blow to small guilds.

    Pretending that guilds at lever 15+ joining forces will help guilds at level 9- is just laughable.

    I take it that you don't know how the Armadas work in STO, then?

    The thing is, it makes perfect sense for higher level guilds to team up with smaller ones - however, it makes most sense if the Alpha guild is already maxed out - that is, has built all structures. In that case, guild members cannot earn guild marks by donating to their own coffins, as there is nothing to spend the donations on.

    The alliance allows them to donate surplus resources to the Beta guilds and everyone benefits, but if the beta guilds were maxed out too, they would not need those resources either.

    There will be advantages to being one of the 9 Gamma guilds in each alliance - bonuses and/or discounts (we will just have to wait for the details), but if the system is set up in a sensible way, those discounts will mostly appeal to the smallest guilds - meaning that the only guilds that will want to be in the bottom tier of the allience are the small ones, and you cannot create a full 13-guild alliance without them.

    (This of course assumes that the bonuses will be sensible...we'll have to wait and see if that's the case).
    Hoping for improvements...
  • elvalianonelvalianon Member Posts: 331 Arc User
    kaloth69 said:

    The STO version of this update included a few management tools for guild leaders, I hope you do the same for Neverwinter. Longer coffer history and the option to export player donations would be really nice, it would make managing big guilds far less work of the officers, so we can spend more time doing fun stuff, like leading raids.

    I second this! Surely hope we will get such features. Also looking forward to the Aliance itself :)
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 932 Arc User
    deathbeez said:

    Why don't smaller guilds disband and/or join/form larger guilds?

    I get a much larger sense of comradery, sense of accomplishment than I have ever gotten in any of the large guilds.

    When You achieve a guildhall upgrade it is a great achievement adding to the joy of the game not a case of we already have enough items for the next 2 buildings(I have seen this happen).

    People complain about grinding in this game because they have never experienced the thrill of a drive to get that last bit of influence/dark gifts/ Tyranny to get that building/ guild hall upgraded. It is much more enjoyable being in a small guild. and it is just plain dumb trying to remove one of the last bits of joy out of this game. No wonder why so many is jumping ship to other games... Hard work is being punished and easy upgrades are being rewarded. A case of pure elitism!!!
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • gphxgphxgphxgphx Member Posts: 184 Arc User
    A problem with a guild based leveling system is guild leaders then pressure members to play content specifically oriented towards the goals of the guild instead of the content the player happens to enjoy playing. This gives players who enjoy an escapist game a boss and the daily demands of a job. As if having to stuff millions of RP into a dozen artifacts wasn't enough of a job already. This game has gotten off on so many tangents and has apparently forgotten what people play this kind of game for - dungeons and killing stuff.
  • instynctiveinstynctive Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,885 Arc User
    gphxgphx said:

    A problem with a guild based leveling system is guild leaders then pressure members to play content specifically oriented towards the goals of the guild instead of the content the player happens to enjoy playing. This gives players who enjoy an escapist game a boss and the daily demands of a job. As if having to stuff millions of RP into a dozen artifacts wasn't enough of a job already. This game has gotten off on so many tangents and has apparently forgotten what people play this kind of game for - dungeons and killing stuff.

    Here's a good idea: don't lump all guild leaders into one bunch.

    Besides, most of the stuff that can be fed into the guild coffer are all rewarded for things that players are doing anyway.. running campaigns and dungeons and stuff.

    So my view on it is simple: if people aren't donating, then they aren't getting a maximum return on their efforts. Or guild marks.
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    "...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
  • rock9000rock9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 67 Arc User

    tilnaft said:


    I just worry that this will turn into a feed Guild structure where all the highest lvl players are in one guild and skim off only the highest members of other Guilds. I can see this turn into a way to demand tribute of the highest players to give the medium players scraps. I find it is best to grow together as a team and a unit while encouraging your Guildies to progress. The feeling of conquering a seemingly un-achievable task is unbelievably satisfying and imbues the members with a lasting sense of pride. I just don't want to see that shattered for the sake of quick gains and boons.

    Exactly what I am fearing. If they do this wrong it will just end with all the low-level guilds being degraded to feeders for the high ones, and the high ones dictating the way the feeders are being managed. ("your guild should do nothing but farm sharandar!", oh joy)
    The high level guilds already have terrible things in place like entrance fees, mandatory donations etc. If you let them they will export these policies to their feeders.
    Really, an easier way would have been to just allow merging of guilds that haven't hit the maximum members yet and raising the limit.
    You are not helping "small guilds" (by what you really mean low level guilds) if the big guilds get the best out of the deal again.

    But let's see how the system will actually work...
    Totally craps. Return to 500 char limit per guild (unlimited account)! They lowered it to create "small guilds"

    gphxgphx said:

    A problem with a guild based leveling system is guild leaders then pressure members to play content specifically oriented towards the goals of the guild instead of the content the player happens to enjoy playing. This gives players who enjoy an escapist game a boss and the daily demands of a job. As if having to stuff millions of RP into a dozen artifacts wasn't enough of a job already. This game has gotten off on so many tangents and has apparently forgotten what people play this kind of game for - dungeons and killing stuff.

    Here's a good idea: don't lump all guild leaders into one bunch.

    Besides, most of the stuff that can be fed into the guild coffer are all rewarded for things that players are doing anyway.. running campaigns and dungeons and stuff.

    So my view on it is simple: if people aren't donating, then they aren't getting a maximum return on their efforts. Or guild marks.
    I can't see your point, a new player, or a new character, or a skilled 1000il get the best return from his own boons not from the coffer nor from the shop. If is a small guild even with mark there's no market, if is an high level guild isn't him to credit.

    If a strong player farm for the guild means he didn't need anything else than the next guild rank or the mark to actually something from an already built shop.
  • phoenix1021phoenix1021 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    Guild leaders are pressuring for donations. The higher level a guild is (what cryptic calls "big"), the more you can assume there was pressure involved. I doubt these guild will let lower guilds just join an alliance for free.
    All this creates is further ingame beaucracy and bigger ingame guild-dictators. Guilds without donation pressure are all about the same in progression anyway. They don't need alliances. There is no content that needs more than 20 people, much less an alliance of several guilds.
    If they do it like someone described STO 's system, then that's what I think will happen. It won't help anyone out at all.
    Already some people want more tools for monitoring donations and more power for guild leaders.

    I'm just glad to be in a guild that doesn't demand entry fees and donations. These things are poison for a game where you are supposed to be playing with others. Bullies and control-freaks rule...
  • plaviaplavia Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    Thx
    as much as PVE cnotenet is nice, this change is needed.

    PVP is dominated by guilds. even after the change from 2 months ago with allowing small guild to progress faster the gap is high.
    PVP can be death with a sec now. and ppl complain u hide
    they kept the +8K armor penetration boon all this time so i guess they have plans for it.

    siege PVP is nearly impossible to Q, for small guild at least.
    you need to have 20 ppl from the same guild or all have to Q solo.
    40 ppl have to Q solo and if one of them don't press the botton within the 1 min bell the all Q get bugged and stuck.

    new players have equip gap problems. while small guilds accepting anyone. some dont have the requirment to do dungeons. you need to help them do the daily staff, build, armor etc.
    guild with 10 active players will have problem dealing with one dragon while other do it solo.

  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 932 Arc User

    Guild leaders are pressuring for donations. The higher level a guild is (what cryptic calls "big"), the more you can assume there was pressure involved. I doubt these guild will let lower guilds just join an alliance for free.
    All this creates is further ingame beaucracy and bigger ingame guild-dictators. Guilds without donation pressure are all about the same in progression anyway. They don't need alliances. There is no content that needs more than 20 people, much less an alliance of several guilds.
    If they do it like someone described STO 's system, then that's what I think will happen. It won't help anyone out at all.
    Already some people want more tools for monitoring donations and more power for guild leaders.

    I'm just glad to be in a guild that doesn't demand entry fees and donations. These things are poison for a game where you are supposed to be playing with others. Bullies and control-freaks rule...

    In small guilds, Guild leaders don't pressure for donations. In fact in our guild the rule is "Don't donate If you need it for yourself". Those few that have maxed their professions and boons are responsible for the donations when they can. meaning about 10% of a small guild can donate. meaning in a guild with 15 players you have 2-3 players donating most of the requirements.

    This seems to be something that the powers that be don't realize. Small/casual guilds put their player base first and actually put guild progressing on the back foot if a guild member needs help.

    I am fortunate t be in a guild where the lower level players actually approach the 3k+ players and ask them to help them on a influence/run. We have even had an instance where a lower level player that have not even started IWD have asked me to help him do the missions to help out. I pointed out he rule above but he stated that he had the time and wanted to help.

    This is just a few examples of what small guilds do and why we are needed in the grander scheme of things. Big guilds is perfect for "Professional" players but you do get players that can(or want to) only play 1 hour every 2 weeks. This is where small guilds come in. With the cap limit these types of players have a negative impact on big/medium guilds but small guilds with a active base of 15 or less player can easily accommodate them.

    As for STO : I really hope that it is going to help small guilds, but everything that have been done in the last 2 mods have hurt small guilds even though we were told it will help us. So most of us are in a fool me once situation. We will not believe it until we experience actual reward.
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • krailovkrailov Member Posts: 302 Arc User
    I am in a small guild - as in, there are only two of us active. We have 11 toons total that we cycle through. We have been playing since pre Mod2, so have been through all the lows and highs of the game. We are about to have our Stronghold go to level 2 (so MUCH Influence is needed -32K - sheesh!). I do not know that we will ever get much higher, as we cannot fight the dragons, but that is OK. We stay in a small guild because we have built it from the beginning, when it was just a shared bank - we stay, because we have grinded and poured into the guild every weekend, and yes, we are way behind everyone else. We are the small band, and we are likely to ALWAYS be the small band, because we just play and chat :) We play the game not for PVP, but because we love DnD. Alliances sounds good, if we can stay small, and yet not be left behind in the boon department - and by that I mean being able to play the content without needing the top-tier boons. We contribute in small ways (and I do put money in - VIP is great!), we grind. I think there are a lot of us out there - I meet them when I play solo and friend them, and every one of them is concerned about their guild. I know bugs need to be fixed, and new content juggled, so just putting in my 2 cents - keep improving (both bugs and content), I think you are on the right path, but be very cautious about how you implement this... We have lost so many already (and an extra dungeon per release is not THAT hard, is it?).

    Might is not always right - the powerful sometimes forget that.

    The Small Band
  • neverwinterdevilneverwinterdevil Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 74 Arc User
    what would be the advantages of being an alpha guild as opposed to being a beta guild ??
  • nimandiirnimandiir Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 90 Arc User
    Announcing:

    Maze Engine: Module That Has nothing to do with Maze Engine!
  • aleblainaleblain Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 76 Arc User
    Sounds pretty good, hope you aply it in the best way possible and become an asset for players rather than a headache (you know, right?). Good luck with the idea Nw staff!
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    We had a guild meeting this evening to discuss our options and the alliances we've already been offered. We're a rank 14-15 guild. We can't even get a guaranteed beta spot in an alliance we'd look to join, so what chance have really small guilds got. We have an overflow rank 2 guild which we'd like to have below us as a gamma, but absolutely no chance.

    What they should do is limit beta and gamma guilds by guild level, and not count the gamma guilds at all in the alliance level so there is less of a disincentive to having really small guilds there.

    It feels like the devs were trying to help small guilds, but this will finally finish them off with their utter lack of understanding of the people who play their game.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,994 Arc User
    As mentioned before, a way to help small guilds would be to reduce the massive amount of resources needed to set up a "basic" stronghold. This could be done pretty easy, and probably within a week.

    After that, the Devs can continue working on their alliance system... and if a small guild wants a bit more then just the basics, the players in it could start looking for a fitting alliance.

    I mean, why is it so hard for the Devs to see the problem with strongholds, but instead of coming up with the obvious solution to it, they go all the way to make it even more complicated?
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • soullesslordssoullesslords Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 54 Arc User
    I'm the leader in a small guild and we have a bunch of great people with real world lives we do our best to help the players first, we don't have any drama its stress free and we play to enjoy the game.

    I do not want a high end guild have the power to kick my guild members or ride them till they quit. If we join the bigger guild alliance we will do our part, but my members come first.

    Talking with my guild members our biggest fear is that we are going to be work slaves for the bigger guilds saying we have to farm a certain area and produce a quota or we will be kicked.

    We have had several players from high end guilds join ours and they tell us horror stories of how the bigger guilds require that you pay 500,000AD and up just to join, then you have to hit a certain quota or be kicked.

    One member had told us that he had to take off do to his wife being sick and came back and he was kicked because he had not logged in for a month not good. The first thing we would have done was ask how is your wife doing and do you need any help in game or real life because we take care of each other.

    I want some assurances that my members will be protected, we are like a family and we all decide what boon structure we want next, everyone has the feeling of ownership in the guild and we all take pride in building our home.

    If there are any smaller guilds that want to form an alliance and think like we do and put people and fun first then give us a shout.

    Our guild is the homeless souls and if you become a member with us you will no longer be homeless.
  • tazz4nowtazz4now Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    @krailov I too have a small guild like you, unfortunately for me the 6 players I had no longer play (1 had to stop in Mod 9 because he could no longer log in, some weird error that is as old as 2013), I just upgraded my guild to level 2 and got a level 1 marketplace now, (just an FYI...the influence needed to go to guild hall level 3 is 64,000....I currently have a little over 3,000) LOL

    When the other 5 members left it left me having to solo content and try to get into various groups for certain content (this is not fun), I hope this Alliance thing is done properly and won't allow the higher guilds to raid the smaller guilds banks, bully members, etc......when we had all 6 of us playing it was nice to be able to just enjoy helping each other and running whatever we decided to do that day, even if only 2 of us logged in.

    I do not want to disband my guild, I do hope my other 5 people will come back some day, but in the meantime, it's just me trudging along with my main and alts, it would be nice to be able to join in an alliance with a higher level guild that doesn't mind mine tagging along not really caring if it takes 1 week or 5 months to level up, but I would love the opportunity to have good people to run dungeons and stuff with...I have been playing since Mod 3 and have not even bothered trying to do any of the Mod 8 or 9 group stuff or even seen the dragon fight in the SH LOL, I guess we'll have to wait and see how this all works out :smile:

  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,994 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    High ranking guilds probably allready have their alt. character guilds on stand by for alliances. They're not going to bother with some lower ranking guilds, unless they can get some active players from there into their own guilds...

    And when you run into any kind of trouble with alliances, i really doubt that the support will be able to provide any help at all.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • phantasynutloverphantasynutlover Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    I'm in a small guild also. I currently have found that large guilds ally with other large guilds. When I've asked about alliance the response is are you Guild Rank 12 or higher?
    Large guilds don't want to ally with small guilds.

    There needs to be a fix that allows small guilds to rise in level with the requirements being set based on the size of the guild.
    I don't mind grinding to raise level to grind to the extent required for Guild Rank 12 insane.

    FYI you can't do master work professions if you are not in a guild rank 12. I don't want to leave my small guild just to be able to do master work professions.
  • darkstarcrashdarkstarcrash Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,382 Arc User


    FYI you can't do master work professions if you are not in a guild rank 12. I don't want to leave my small guild just to be able to do master work professions.

    Since you can visit guilds in your alliance, people in smaller guilds can do Masterwork professions by talking to the Artisan in the Helm guild.

    Access to Masterwork profession, higher-level Marketplaces and Joining forces for Dragonflight are some of the bonuses for the Gauntlet guilds to look forward to.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User


    FYI you can't do master work professions if you are not in a guild rank 12. I don't want to leave my small guild just to be able to do master work professions.

    Since you can visit guilds in your alliance, people in smaller guilds can do Masterwork professions by talking to the Artisan in the Helm guild.

    Access to Masterwork profession, higher-level Marketplaces and Joining forces for Dragonflight are some of the bonuses for the Gauntlet guilds to look forward to.
    Yes that's the theory, but in practice it looks like all the big guilds are banding together, so this is not happening

  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,994 Arc User
    edited May 2016


    FYI you can't do master work professions if you are not in a guild rank 12. I don't want to leave my small guild just to be able to do master work professions.

    Since you can visit guilds in your alliance, people in smaller guilds can do Masterwork professions by talking to the Artisan in the Helm guild.

    Access to Masterwork profession, higher-level Marketplaces and Joining forces for Dragonflight are some of the bonuses for the Gauntlet guilds to look forward to.
    Yes that's the theory, but in practice it looks like all the big guilds are banding together, so this is not happening
    Well, those big guilds will probably start selling any open spots in their alliance at some point... drop a "donation" for the big guild, and you get access to anything you want.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • mahburgmahburg Member Posts: 598 Arc User
    The only donations I think Guilds have a right to expect are Influence, anything else depends on the level and needs of the member and the individual alts.
    We do kick people if they don't do influence and I think that's perfectly fair, if they want the boons and the benefits they should contribute in some form to the progression of their guildies IMHO!
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