Control Wizard Booster PATCH needed

defiantone99
defiantone99 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,634 Arc User
I have heard no word in the many blogs, articles, or comments by authorities that I have read about any upcoming rework of the CW class. But, after the Lostmauth nerf it sure needs one. There have been nerfs with no compensation, as well as many bugs not addressed. Post any and all ideas you would like to see in a Control Wizard Booster PATCH.
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Comments

  • kathrynthered
    kathrynthered Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    Since Lostmouth set has been fixed, CWs all over would like Storm Spell returned to its state previous Patch 20150515a-6:

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/564094/patch-notes-nw-45-20150515a-6

    Part of the complaint was due to its interaction with the very same Lostmouth set if my memory serves me. Please others chime in.

    Thank You
    Post edited by zebular on
  • kathrynthered
    kathrynthered Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 13 Arc User
    Since Lostmouth set has been fixed, CWs all over would like Storm Spell returned to its state previous Patch 20150515a-6:

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/564094/patch-notes-nw-45-20150515a-6

    Part of the complaint was due to its interaction with the very same Lostmouth set if my memory serves me. Please others chime in.

    Thank You
  • fierceeyedfox
    fierceeyedfox Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    I thought Eye of the Storm was the passive that got nerfed, but I agree that it needs to be changed back.
  • martelis1981
    martelis1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 121 Arc User
    Agree too. With the change to the Lostmauth set, the nerf to the Storm Spell doesn't make sense
  • kathrynthered
    kathrynthered Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 13 Arc User
    Storm Spell: This class feature now has a .5 second ICD and can no longer critically strike. That was due to the patch on it last year.
  • blazious11
    blazious11 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 331 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    Well, not all CWs would like that. I would not like that. I just hate, that i'm stuck with storm spell for ages. Also passive damage and procs are not really fun.
    If you want to buff CW, buff the encounter damage or feats. Like elemental reinforcement from the pathetic +5% damage to at least 10 or 15, etc...
    Post edited by blazious11 on
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  • wixxgs1cht
    wixxgs1cht Member Posts: 430 Arc User
    I'd rather stop being dependent on procs and passive damage sources. Just like blazious I'd like to see efforts to bring encounter damage back, just like in the old days. Yet not by a flat damage buff, but by means that require some more wit to get there. Such as strenghtened synergies between powers or by overhauled feats.
  • umsche
    umsche Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 461 Arc User
    One easy solution would be to increase the weapon damage of the orbs.
  • c1k4ml3kc3
    c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    umsche said:

    One easy solution would be to increase the weapon damage of the orbs.

    I'd have to agree with this. This would fix many things for the CW class. But I doubt that this would be easy. In all our experience in the previous mods things like this can lead to many bugs for the main-hand and make the enchantments to not stack/work or simply lost in the process. Oh, yes, that happened many times. I personally lost one Lesser Vorpal once the Artifact weapons got introduced. Never got a substitute. - _ - So I'm not for that even though it sounds perfect.

    What I AM for is that Storm Spell gets returned to the previous state of MOD5. That was the best way to ACTUALLY play the Control Wizard, despite it being high-risk option. Return the critical Storm Spell procs to the Control Wizard class.
    As for people who dislike it, you don't have to play it that way.

    But face the truth, many, many, many Wizards built their way with this on mind. We want to do AOE damage. We're GOOD with AOE damage. We NEED AOE damage to have FUN with the game once more.

    Cryptic can totally sky-rocket the boost to other classes for all I care, but return the Storm Spell to it's previous state and let the electrocution begin.


    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • mamalion1234
    mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,379 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    btw i didnt know creeping frost warped magics get boost from buffs and the tooltip says something about weapon damage: Dealing Cold damage has a 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Creeping Frost. Creeping Frost deals 85% of your weapon damage as cold damage every 2 seconds for 12 seconds. Dealing Arcane damage has a 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Warped Magics. Warped Magics deals 50% of your weapon damage as Arcane damage every 2 seconds for 12 seconds. Warped Magics ignores half of a target's resistance. I have act logs with creeping frost 100k ticks and warped magics around 50k ticks.

    I DIDNT post that to encourage nerf just trying to understand how cryptic thinks. HOW the feat above is wai and not the lostmauth vegeance hit to scale with buffs and debuffs and able to critical? or cleric fire of the gods? another feat with weapon damage scale with buffs-debuffs.

    AND one more question does also the abyss chaos scales with buffs-debuffs since i am renegade and a bit lazy to go test again lf answer;p
  • jobsalotofwork
    jobsalotofwork Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 189 Arc User
    No thank you.

    The feature already hits hard for a random proc and in the past led to statements like - I can do more damage with at wills then most players can do with a full rotation.

    The player thought that meant he was skilled when it was really a testament to how ridiculously overpowered the class feature was at the time. It still accounts for high amounts of damage due to good synergy with CoI and icy terrain in SS builds.

    It would be better to increase damage from fanning the flames or other features with no CC. Alternately increasing target cap on some abilities.

    But they should wait before buffing CW as the class benefits more from dread then other classes due to being encounter centric, and some options to change gear, which will help with dps (I.e. belts with more relevant stats.)

    Cheers
  • c1k4ml3kc3
    c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User


    It would be better to increase damage from fanning the flames or other features with no CC.
    Cheers

    "Cheers"? Hahaha. You can open the thread and ask for MoF buffs, what do you care for the class that you don't main?
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • solbergx
    solbergx Member Posts: 654 Arc User
    Nice idea
  • phoenix1021
    phoenix1021 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    Wizard is so weird in this game. I wish they would start with giving them some d&d iconic spells, like fireball, chain lightning, cone of cold, meteor storm, dispel magic, invisibility. You know, so they could be a ranged blaster/support, instead of a melee freeze-bot.
    Would be great if arcane spells would get some attention as well. Except for Steal Time they are all too weak. Ray of Enfeeblement, Disintegrate, Shard, Repel, Entangling Force; I wish these could be fun again.
    Chill could reduce attack speed/recovery. Lots of stuff they could do with debuffing, now that everything has such high control resist.
    And stormspell was horrible back in mod 5. It was the same problem that the losmauth set had; it was so good that noone used anything else. Might as well make it baseline then or get rid of it.
  • ianthewizard2012
    ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    1. Bug fixes, of course. There are currently lots of bugs.

    2. The Lostmauth issue is about dps. As a player who is playing a full controller, I would like to see more impressive control options.

    Wizard is so weird in this game. I wish they would start with giving them some d&d iconic spells, like fireball, chain lightning, cone of cold, meteor storm, dispel magic, invisibility. You know, so they could be a ranged blaster/support, instead of a melee freeze-bot.
    Would be great if arcane spells would get some attention as well. Except for Steal Time they are all too weak. Ray of Enfeeblement, Disintegrate, Shard, Repel, Entangling Force; I wish these could be fun again.
    Chill could reduce attack speed/recovery. Lots of stuff they could do with debuffing, now that everything has such high control resist.
    And stormspell was horrible back in mod
    6. It was the same problem that the losmauth set had; it was so good that noone used anything else. Might as well make it baseline then or get rid of it.

    I, too, would like to see more D&D iconic spells like those you mentioned. But frankly speaking, Control Wizard is not designed to be a glass cannon because it spares some of its concentration on crowd control. Aside from Control Wizard, 4e rulebooks have also suggested some other interesting "builds" ("classes" if translated into this game). There is a suggested build called War Wizard, which is designed to be a full glass cannon. If highly offensive spells like Fireball, Chain Lightning, Cone of Cold, Meteor Swarm, and Acid Arrow were to be implemented, it would be for War Wizard. As for Dispel Magic and Invisibility, it would be more appropriate for Illusionist Wizard, which is yet another suggested build.
  • c1k4ml3kc3
    c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    "Any class should never have to rely on Class Features for damage"

    It's not relying on it, it's utilizing it to the fullest potential for the sake of most beneficial factors implemented.

    That's like saying that wizards depend upon the spell Disintegrate because of it's high damage. That is not the case.

    Storm spell is a way to utilize the powers for a high-crit build. It's a feature that procs on casts of spells (encounters) that have a fairly low damage (seriously, look up at the basic damage of icy terrain or oppressive force daily).

    It is not like the wizards hold left-click to spam spell-storm procs all the time. There's a certain fine-tuning to it that takes skill, strategy, event, ad investment (and a lot of it btw), without actually gaining much in the process.

    If you think that CW's are dependable upon one skill/feature, what about GWF's indomitable battle strike or TR's Bleed? Both of them constitute far more damage based only on single-cast. I've seen the first doing 2-3 mil damage easy. And it's CD ain't that long either.

    So, no, leaning upon one skill is not bad by any standard. You have to possess your trump card for DPS in this game. That's only NORMAL to do.

    Carry on.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • solbergx
    solbergx Member Posts: 654 Arc User

    Wizard is so weird in this game. I wish they would start with giving them some d&d iconic spells, like fireball, chain lightning, cone of cold, meteor storm, dispel magic, invisibility. You know, so they could be a ranged blaster/support, instead of a melee freeze-bot.
    Would be great if arcane spells would get some attention as well. Except for Steal Time they are all too weak. Ray of Enfeeblement, Disintegrate, Shard, Repel, Entangling Force; I wish these could be fun again.
    Chill could reduce attack speed/recovery. Lots of stuff they could do with debuffing, now that everything has such high control resist.
    And stormspell was horrible back in mod 5. It was the same problem that the losmauth set had; it was so good that noone used anything else. Might as well make it baseline then or get rid of it.

    Maybe we can do both things!!
  • c1k4ml3kc3
    c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited April 2016

    IBS and DF are not class features, they are powers. The features should complement powers, not be the only way to make them viable.

    You do know that in the thaum build Storm Spell is not even in the three top damage dealers, right?

    Why isn't the word "UTILIZATION OF THE FEATURE" ringing any bell to you?

    Practically all pre-mod6 CWs were utilizing it to the fullest potential. They built their CWs with that on mind. They invested time, and effort, to learn and play the melee casting. The CC got nerfed, the Storm Spell got nerfed, Shard of Avalanche got nerfed and many more things, despite the fact that CWs are using powers and feats at their disposal in a smart way. We're not just casting things randomly, there's always a specific procedure, specific timing, specific utilization that's gear-dependent.

    So, when you come and say "CWs should use Storm Spell for damage dealing" you're actually saying "CWs shouldn't be using their powers to the fullest because that is how they deal damage".

    Do you HONESTLY believe that all powers should be equally used? Do you live in a fairy-tale or something? I do not understand your position, not one single bit. As such I'm ending this vague discussion with you.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • phoenix1021
    phoenix1021 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    The point is not that you shouldn't be able to choose the best powers. The problem comes when one power is so superior to everything else that using something else would be foolish. And to top it off that power comes with only one of the paragon paths. It's not "skill" slotting the most powerful passive. Everyone in mod 5 was a spellstorm mage renegade build.
    Spellstorm as it is now is fine. If anything weapon damage for orbs should be increased, so that all powers deal a little bit more damage. (They are lower damage than even cleric symbols atm) That would be a quick fix without needing a big class rework.
  • c1k4ml3kc3
    c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    Haha. Better how much? 5%? 10%. Let's face it, no matter what feature it is at the hand it will forever be the feature that deals the most damage taken since we massively respecced to do just that. Damage. With additional control that, let me stress this out, $ucks!

    Also, what evidence do you have for it to be a quick fix? What evidence do you have to support such a claim?

    Last night while I was working - I was thinking about the solution to this problem.

    1. Numero uno : Spellstorm back to it's original state is the quickest fix since it's already logged in the changelog and it can return to the previous state. That's a huge + for the developers who have a much better thing to do than rework entire CW class.

    2. Numero due : Changing the ORB damage would not just mean to increase just the artifacts of your preference, no, it would mean to increase each artifact weapon damage. So you have to go to the database and items and find each orb separately. That's time-consuming. A lot. Then to test each orb separately in different scenarios and with different class features. YEt another time-consuming abyss
    So, that means that damage (which roughly equals power) is increased so that ALL spells are buffed tremendously instead of just one that ACTUALLY makes you to work for it instead to simply get it as soon as you get the weapon. So, in other words, the proposition for the weapon buff is a lazy one. It's like someone gave you 5000 power for free.

    So, in other words, your proposition is completely not fair.
    SpellStorm proposition, on top of that, would most certainly make the AOE spells YET AGAIN more viable than Disintegrate and/or Ice Knife (although I'll still have them for boss fights).

    So, yes, SpellStorm crits are a better solution than the pure damage increase.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • relativity
    relativity Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    I'd like to see some love and INDICATION to build a CW focused on ARCANE spells. Now it looks like this:

    Cold based at-will does better dmg (with right feats) and aoe dmg at that. Cold based encounters can be enhanced by several feats to do even greater dmg. They also play well to CC. There is no point in opting for arcane spells: at will is single target, feats enhancing arcane dmg are weaker then cold based, Shard of Endless Avalanche is an ultimate C.R.A.P., RoE is single target debuf-boss skill and the ONLY decent arcane spell I can think of is Steal Time. It's a miracle you've left one of two good arcane dailies still of some use, though what you've done to Arcane Singularity is just disgraceful.

    WTF Cryptic. You've forced wizards to opt for cold-based skills, even freakin MoFs, ever since you started messing wizards up. There was once a very good reason to becoming arcane renegade SS - your cap stone enhanced your MM. Now renegade capstone grants random buff nobody cares for and you even forced "chilling presence" feat somewhere on the way, because - you know - who cares for arcane spells! Let's make them even less wanted in opposition to cold based skills. Why the hell you even bother creating all this choices of elemental spells, when all you seam to be doing is to tell us that ice-based skills are the way to go.

    And yeah, SS should be back to where it was before nerf.
    And yeah, Shard should be better then it is now. Mostly for PvP reasons, but also, because it would be second arcane spell and maybe that would be enough to go for full arcane/lightning skills.
    Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
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  • kriptical1
    kriptical1 Member Posts: 284 Arc User
    I'm ok with the spell storm reinstatement, but how would MoF's be boosted to keep pace with spell storms? I know that I don't play the popular wiz build, but it's one I've played since release, and I dig it. Whatever boost gets put forward, I hope it isn't at the expens of mof viability.
    I could use some buffing too..
  • umsche
    umsche Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 461 Arc User

    Haha. Better how much? 5%? 10%. Let's face it, no matter what feature it is at the hand it will forever be the feature that deals the most damage taken since we massively respecced to do just that. Damage. With additional control that, let me stress this out, $ucks!

    Also, what evidence do you have for it to be a quick fix? What evidence do you have to support such a claim?

    Last night while I was working - I was thinking about the solution to this problem.

    1. Numero uno : Spellstorm back to it's original state is the quickest fix since it's already logged in the changelog and it can return to the previous state. That's a huge + for the developers who have a much better thing to do than rework entire CW class.

    2. Numero due : Changing the ORB damage would not just mean to increase just the artifacts of your preference, no, it would mean to increase each artifact weapon damage. So you have to go to the database and items and find each orb separately. That's time-consuming. A lot. Then to test each orb separately in different scenarios and with different class features. YEt another time-consuming abyss
    So, that means that damage (which roughly equals power) is increased so that ALL spells are buffed tremendously instead of just one that ACTUALLY makes you to work for it instead to simply get it as soon as you get the weapon. So, in other words, the proposition for the weapon buff is a lazy one. It's like someone gave you 5000 power for free.

    So, in other words, your proposition is completely not fair.
    SpellStorm proposition, on top of that, would most certainly make the AOE spells YET AGAIN more viable than Disintegrate and/or Ice Knife (although I'll still have them for boss fights).

    So, yes, SpellStorm crits are a better solution than the pure damage increase.


    1. What Original State? The real original state or the Mod 4-5 super state where it was overbuffed to compensate for the loss of damage on every other skill? They Nerfed them all, they can bring them back, they all have it on their changelog. ;)
    2. Time-consuming? Lol, that can be done with one SQL request.

    What about MoFs ? Storm-Spell gives nothing to them.
  • c1k4ml3kc3
    c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    umsche said:



    1. What Original State? The real original state or the Mod 4-5 super state where it was overbuffed to compensate for the loss of damage on every other skill? They Nerfed them all, they can bring them back, they all have it on their changelog. ;)
    2. Time-consuming? Lol, that can be done with one SQL request.

    What about MoFs ? Storm-Spell gives nothing to them.

    1. Loss of CC skills, not other damage options.
    2. Haha, no. "It can be done with one SQL" - And the time that you build an SQL txt that changes multiple weapon damage values [and let' say you actually go and do it for whatever reason(specifically for the artifact weapons which come in 4 distinct values, and it would probably require changing the additional attributes such as power, crit, recovery or to that effect)], you can specifically change one integral value, possibly manually, from "Crit? YES/NO", like some basic I/O principle and invest time to test specifically one feature, instead to test each artifact weapon upgrade separately.

    Also, we do not know whether the Items are accessed the way we assume they are in the database. I take my stand from the position that developers didn't upgrade all the artifact weapons since it took less time, despite the fact that they could also "do it" from "a single sql request" (as if that matters).

    Mh, yes. Bye.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • umsche
    umsche Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 461 Arc User
    edited April 2016

    umsche said:



    1. What Original State? The real original state or the Mod 4-5 super state where it was overbuffed to compensate for the loss of damage on every other skill? They Nerfed them all, they can bring them back, they all have it on their changelog. ;)
    2. Time-consuming? Lol, that can be done with one SQL request.

    What about MoFs ? Storm-Spell gives nothing to them.

    1. Loss of CC skills, not other damage options.
    2. Haha, no. "It can be done with one SQL" - And the time that you build an SQL txt that changes multiple weapon damage values [and let' say you actually go and do it for whatever reason(specifically for the artifact weapons which come in 4 distinct values, and it would probably require changing the additional attributes such as power, crit, recovery or to that effect)], you can specifically change one integral value, possibly manually, from "Crit? YES/NO", like some basic I/O principle and invest time to test specifically one feature, instead to test each artifact weapon upgrade separately.

    Also, we do not know whether the Items are accessed the way we assume they are in the database. I take my stand from the position that developers didn't upgrade all the artifact weapons since it took less time, despite the fact that they could also "do it" from "a single sql request" (as if that matters).

    Mh, yes. Bye.
    update weapons set min_damage = min_damage*1,1, max_damage = max_damage *1,1 where class = CW. Here, done. Changing stuff in a Database is way easier than changing code, which is what was done for Storm Spell.

    Changing some numbers don't need testing of every skill on every item, that's ridiculous.

    Relying on storm spell to deal damage was awful and everyone was against it when it came out, because it didn't need skill to deal damage, only just be in the middle of mobs and cast Icy Terrain.

    Passive damage is bad, active damage is better.
  • willson#2163
    willson#2163 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited April 2016



    I, too, would like to see more D&D iconic spells like those you mentioned. But frankly speaking, Control Wizard is not designed to be a glass cannon because it spares some of its concentration on crowd control. Aside from Control Wizard, 4e rulebooks have also suggested some other interesting "builds" ("classes" if translated into this game). There is a suggested build called War Wizard, which is designed to be a full glass cannon. If highly offensive spells like Fireball, Chain Lightning, Cone of Cold, Meteor Swarm, and Acid Arrow were to be implemented, it would be for War Wizard. As for Dispel Magic and Invisibility, it would be more appropriate for Illusionist Wizard, which is yet another suggested build.

    Except the D&D4 path was altered and removed. D&D5 is very different!
    Wizards were a powerhouse in D&D2-3 and pretty good dps again in D&D5. With those mentioned iconic aoe spells it could tear whole attacking groups to a new one!
    Yeah my heart missed a beat when Orcus used actual Power word: Death! Not to mention there are meteor showers all over the game (Scorpions, Dwarf spellcasters in DV). Triggered spells and real time stop would be very powerfull!

    Thaum clearly need some buff or maybe the release of Sorcerer will put the nuke wizard back in the game.

This discussion has been closed.