test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Lostmauth's Vengeance changes

1356711

Comments

  • sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    I just tested lostmauth on my Master of Flame CW on preview server.
    On preview server, I can see lostmauth damage is increased by debuffs such as plague fire and Swath of Destruction (CW class feature).

    Before nerf (tested two weeks ago on MoF CW with perfect plaguefire)
    lostmauth damagage = 6000 to 10k

    After nerf (tested one hour ago on MoF CW with perfect plaguefire)
    lostmauth damagage = 1300 to 2000

    Should I change to other set? I don't know. maybe not because my build is very much DoT.
  • putzboy78putzboy78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,950 Arc User
    Then modify the imperial set which doesn't even hold up to the Lostmauth set on paper (100% weapon damage vs a"chance" of 25% weapon damage)
  • bittynationbittynation Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    amenar said:

    If you haven't read the Upcoming powers/balance changes please go here to take a look: arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1214505/upcoming-powers-balance-changes

    Here is the related patch note:

    • Lostmauth's Hoard: The damage dealt by the set bonus, Lostmauth's Vengeance, no longer scales with damage bonuses. It now properly deals Weapon Damage, as stated in the tooltip.
    @amenar

    I welcome the change to the LOL set, this is a great step in the right direction. Along with that why not fix the multi-procing of the bonding rune stones? It contributes as much or more to the unintended substantial power creep. This would be a very welcomed fix.
  • jasman23jasman23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 58 Arc User
    Most ppl think nerfing elol is a good thing. I dont think so, at least its not that good at all. Behind all their explanations and excuses, theres a trap... If they really did care about balances they should have fixed the lostmauth set long time ago. Thing is, OP stuffs are the way they use to hook cash from players. They release overpowered stuffs and give a damn about negative feedbacks. At the point when they have harvested enough cash from the ongoing op stuffs, they sastisfy all the negative feedback-givers by giving a major nerf and slowly replace those stuffs with another overpowered ideas. People who want to stay at BiS gears will, once again have to pay cash in order to buy new gears and RP. The process keeps recycling... you see its a both ways- win situation for cryptic.

    This is my prediction: Elol set will become trash and Orcus set will take over the throne. How? the Orcus somehow give u 20% dps all the time and yes they wont fix it in anytime soon, maybe 2 -3 mods later... Who knows?
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    This is Spartan bae.
  • fdsakhfduewhfiuffdsakhfduewhfiuf Member Posts: 604 Arc User
    I just did some tests on preview. Lostmauth's Vengeance now deals 3% of my GWF's total damage against a target dummy. On live it is 33%. While I think that 33% is too much I also think 3% is not enough, especially considering the costs involved in obtaining and upgrading the three set pieces.

    I'd like to know how the set compares to the other damage increasing sets? Unfortunately I don't have those sets, especially the new Demon Lord's Immortality set. Why don't you provide a merchant on the preview server selling those sets? It'll help people make informed decisions.
  • golgorzedgolgorzed Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5 Arc User
    Anything on the black ice set?
    A chance of 10% penetrating weapon damage? Not nearly on par with the other stuff around.
    i would love to use it, if not useless.
    I play a SW, and get sick everytime i see my lostmouth set, instead.
  • zibadawazibadawa Member Posts: 1,266 Arc User


    c) Benefits from [de]buffs

    Um, the entire point for the nerf was that elol was benefitting from buffs, resulting in tons of extra damage, and that they were removing this.

    So now you're telling us that, no, they didn't do that, it still benefits from buffs, they just removed crits?
  • wizardpiffy#2999 wizardpiffy Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    Whoever thinks this nerf is a good idea ur wrong leave the set alone what will it balance if every dps class is currently using it nothing lol just make all of us weaker plus it's been out for over 8 months y bother with it now especially after it was voted overwhelmingly to not be nerfed and especially after people have refined the whole set to legendary just leave it alone
  • masterogamasteroga Member Posts: 446 Arc User
    Not sure if this has been said yet but....lostmauth is better than imperial the instant you reach 26 percent crit chance. ...which everyone should have. So unless the orcus set actually does something good (still not sure what that tooltip means)
    ....all dps classes will still use it.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,404 Arc User
    jasman23 said:

    Most ppl think nerfing elol is a good thing. I dont think so, at least its not that good at all. Behind all their explanations and excuses, theres a trap... If they really did care about balances they should have fixed the lostmauth set long time ago. Thing is, OP stuffs are the way they use to hook cash from players. They release overpowered stuffs and give a damn about negative feedbacks. At the point when they have harvested enough cash from the ongoing op stuffs, they sastisfy all the negative feedback-givers by giving a major nerf and slowly replace those stuffs with another overpowered ideas. People who want to stay at BiS gears will, once again have to pay cash in order to buy new gears and RP. The process keeps recycling... you see its a both ways- win situation for cryptic.

    This is my prediction: Elol set will become trash and Orcus set will take over the throne. How? the Orcus somehow give u 20% dps all the time and yes they wont fix it in anytime soon, maybe 2 -3 mods later... Who knows?

    if you know so much details for orcus what is exactly the bug ?
  • gongaliciusgongalicius Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    Hello,
    I just think they could make eLOL SET proc on HR's DoT's. Makes no sense when like 90% of the damage comming from HR (dot's) don't proc their set, which would make them a "playable" class (judging from opinions of many ppl).

    I love playing HR, it's really fun and there's a lot of stuff you need to do/know besides just autoattacking like GWF does.. But if the set doesn't make the ticks fom the dot's proc, it is a big loss in damage..
  • wizardpiffy#2999 wizardpiffy Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    How do people think this is a good idea Def not everyone will still use the set everyone will just do less damage now all the people thanking cryptic are probably dcs or ops what dps class would thank someone for reducing there damage lol u guys are nuts
  • scathiasscathias Member Posts: 1,174 Arc User
    zibadawa said:


    c) Benefits from [de]buffs

    Um, the entire point for the nerf was that elol was benefitting from buffs, resulting in tons of extra damage, and that they were removing this.

    So now you're telling us that, no, they didn't do that, it still benefits from buffs, they just removed crits?
    debuffs are a different category from buffs. Buffs increase your personal damage. so if you were going to deal 1000(1000) damage and you get a 50% damage buff you now deal 1500(1500) damage. a debuff increases the effectiveness that an attack hits with. so with a 50% debuff (on a training dummy) you now deal 1500(1000), on mobs this is subject still to the mob's DR). Debuffs effect every damage source in the game including the damage from the sharandar/dread ring boons which are fixed damage sources but deal increased damage if the target is effected by debuffs.
    Guild - The Imaginary Friends
    We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
  • rhadamathysrhadamathys Member Posts: 310 Arc User
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts and articulating the solutions. I think this is a fair nerf and well deserved despite the fact that I benefit from it right now. We need more transparency like this. Good start at repairing the trust you have broken with me.
    Ney - HR (max item level)
    The Legendary Outlaws

    Preferences:
    PvE and PvP - Pathfinder Combat
  • orangebangorangebang Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 55 Arc User
    urabask said:

    macjae said:

    So, does this mean the set can also no longer crit? The fact that it could crit was very helpful to SWs in PvP for generating sparks, but hopefully you'll have some boosts for SWs coming soon.

    So preview just proved that cryptic did something not in the patch notes : \

    It can't crit.
    Welcome to the HR Trapper world. We only got crits from the first hit, not our roots which is similar. I have both CW and SW and never had lostmauth on both, now I won't be missing something I never had.
  • cjh1983cjh1983 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    Terrible proposal, they were literally saying a few months ago that they werent going to change it.
  • wizardpiffy#2999 wizardpiffy Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    Don't ignore the community overwhelming majority said leave it alone and don't nerf it listen to the gamers for once
  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User

    urabask said:

    macjae said:

    So, does this mean the set can also no longer crit? The fact that it could crit was very helpful to SWs in PvP for generating sparks, but hopefully you'll have some boosts for SWs coming soon.

    So preview just proved that cryptic did something not in the patch notes : \

    It can't crit.
    Welcome to the HR Trapper world. We only got crits from the first hit, not our roots which is similar. I have both CW and SW and never had lostmauth on both, now I won't be missing something I never had.
    Except HRs were still on par with CWs anyways. SW will still be on top though.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    zibadawa said:


    c) Benefits from [de]buffs

    Um, the entire point for the nerf was that elol was benefitting from buffs, resulting in tons of extra damage, and that they were removing this.

    So now you're telling us that, no, they didn't do that, it still benefits from buffs, they just removed crits?
    They can't change this unless they basically remove debuffs that act as damage bonuses when applied after resistance ignored is maxed out.

    And the numerical evidence is there that most of the straight-up damage multipliers that were also affecting it no longer are. Buffs that are just "you do x% more damage" and have nothing to do with overcoming mitigation.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • ichimaruginxichimaruginx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    @Strumslinger Since there are already many views in terms of GWFs, SWs and in general, I would like to post one from a CW's POV (One who has chosen to uses LM set and not Valindra, and to DPS instead of CC):


    While I agree that LM set fix is making sense but the Devs seem to forget that by changing LM set the most affected class in terms of dps is one which is ALREADY behind in dps - CW. By looking at many ACTs, most will agree that LM set constitute to a MAJORITY of a CW's dps if it is a chosen set for that CW (and NO I'm not talking about CW who use Valindra for CC here, so please refrain on reply regarding that).

    It is indeed true that GWFs and SWs will be more balanced with the LM set changes but it also means CW will be MORE and more behind them in terms of DPS, and THAT isn't balanced. Why? Many of my fellow CWs may recall a certain Storm Spell class feature nerf which was introduced AFTER LM set appears. It caused an uproar back then but CWs still had the LM set and now they lost BOTH SS and LM set... for an initial outcry by other classes because of... Oh wait, it's actually because that SS combined with LM set let CWs do much DPS.

    Now that CWs have NEITHER LM set NOR Storm Spell feature -> I would like to urge the Devs to CONSIDER giving DPS CWs a buff on their DPS, yes BOTH SS and MoF CWs need it, because right now, they are looking extremely like a CCer-which-doesn't-work-as-good-as-written-on-paper. Sure nerf LM set but gives CWs a buff so that they can be once again consider as a DPS class post-LM changes!


    Thanks for listening.
    Post edited by ichimaruginx on
  • gankdalf#8991 gankdalf Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited April 2016

    Since there are already many views in terms of GWFs, SWs and in general, I would like to post one from a CW's POV (One who has chosen to uses LM set and not Valindra, and to DPS instead of CC):


    While I agree that LM set fix is making sense but the Devs seem to forget that by changing LM set the most affected class in terms of dps is one which is ALREADY behind in dps - CW. By looking at many ACTs, most will agree that LM set constitute to a MAJORITY of a CW's dps if it is a chosen set for that CW (and NO I'm not talking about CW who use Valindra for CC here, so please refrain on reply regarding that).

    It is indeed true that GWFs and SWs will be more balanced with the LM set changes but it also means CW will be MORE and more behind them in terms of DPS, and THAT isn't balanced. Why? Many of my fellow CWs may recall a certain Storm Spell class feature nerf which was introduced AFTER LM set appears. It caused an uproar back then but CWs still had the LM set and now they lost BOTH SS and LM set... for an initial outcry by other classes because of... Oh wait, it's actually because that SS combined with LM set let CWs do much DPS.

    Now that CWs have NEITHER LM set NOR Storm Spell feature -> I would like to urge the Devs to CONSIDER giving DPS CWs a buff on their DPS, because right now, they are looking extremely like a CCer-which-doesn't-work-as-good-as-written-on-paper. Sure nerf LM set but gives CWs a buff so that they can be once again consider as a DPS class post-LM changes!


    Thanks for listening.


    Word. I tried the LM on my CW and it is now 3% of our damage in PvP (as MoF). I had the 5 best mount healing bonuses (also Im BiS) and I was fighting against a SW without any mount bonuses and I lost - every time . No companion were used. They can double our damage and I still dont think I can kill a BiS DC. While a GF can one rotate me.

    The CW needs some serious damage buffs for both stormspell and Master of flame.

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • phoenix1021phoenix1021 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    Finally! I didn't believe it yesterday, but it seems to be real. I have been waiting for this for months, I actually caved in and bought this set for my warlock, now I will be happy to throw it out again.
    This entire thing was just a huge paywall for all striker classes. Buy this set for half a million ad or you can't play your character. I'm so glad there is an end to that, it will be great for new players and those with lots of alts.
  • xveganroxxveganrox Member Posts: 27 Arc User

    deathbeez said:

    asterotg said:

    Why do you ask the community, when you ignore the majority vote?

    They didn't. That (fairly leading) poll was made by a regular forum user.

    I recall that the vote was clearly in the majority of leaving the set the way it was.
    So I have to agree with asterotg, they did ignore the input.
    And it wasn't feedback they solicited in the first place, so that doesn't matter either.

    They're doing a thing that needed to be done. Amenar has laid out exactly why it needed to be done, which is exactly what everyone who expressed a need to get it toned down said in that poll.

    Most of the arguments against it are made from a personal perspective, not a good-of-the-game perspective.
    Here's the good-of-the-game argument: all of NW's most active players are about to lose an item set that they spent months or hundreds of dollars grinding out over the course of as long as a year. How many of these players are going to be unwilling to make a similar investment in the future? Who knows, maybe in Mod 10 they'll add purple weapons that are better than Legendary Twisted weapons, why bother getting those?
  • kingramzekingramze Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    So control wizards, which are supposed to be a DPS class, and have been nerfed to oblivion so that they rarely even rank as paingiver when playing with GWFs on say... Tiamat or Demogorgon... now lose their only advantage for a set -- the lostmauth set that adds decent damage to all crits and procs on AOE. Well done! Hey, I have an idea. Why don't you just remove the ability for CWs to wear armor! I mean, heck, they don't need armor -- they're wizards, after all. (May as well -- I have a 2.9K item lvl CW w/ lostmauth and my defense is so low, my only advantage was being a glass cannon with decent DPS (not great w/ 3K GWF's often doing double to triple my DPS).

    MAYBE you should seriously look at the various classes and make some sets class restricted so that only CWs can get the lostmauth set. Or there could be multiple sets (similar to armor) that are class dependent. Nerfing a set b/c GWF's are overpowered does nothing to help CW's catch up when they're using the same nerfed set!
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    All this does is absolutely destroys the CW's viability as a dps class. GWF is enhanced by the set, CW is defined by it. Yep, our class is enabled by the lostmauth set. We are now a support class which can't even hit as hard as a dc or gf and thats only saving grace is its not a paladin.
  • gankdalf#8991 gankdalf Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited April 2016

    All this does is absolutely destroys the CW's viability as a dps class. GWF is enhanced by the set, CW is defined by it. Yep, our class is enabled by the lostmauth set. We are now a support class which can't even hit as hard as a dc or gf and thats only saving grace is its not a paladin.

    In PvP CW are already a a support class on live server. So yeah the CW needs some major buffs on our encounters both as Stormspell and MoF. LM set now gives 3% of our damage in PvP on PTR.

    I also tried the Black i set on my CW and its even worse then the nerfed LM set, under 1% of my total damage.

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • uptondarkdiamonduptondarkdiamond Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    Ok,
    Just ran ACT a bunch of times with my CW and I did keep some of my old ACT files (before lostmauth nerf) so I could compare. My old ACT file was only a 3 min test (I know that that great) but it had my average DPS at 5035.87, Crit % 23, Flank % 30, effectiveness 120.1. I ran 3, 5 min test (I know still not that great) had average of 4052 DPS, 20.6 Crit %, 26.6% Flank, and overall effectiveness of 120.1. So there is a little disparity in the Crit and Flank % (not entirely sure why only thing that changed for this character was the lostmauth nerf) but it shows a decrease of 19.34 % in my characters DPS.
    I run a MoF CW that is full renegade with spell twisting, not ideal for true DPS but good enough in my book. My weapon enchant is a Transcended Dread Enchantment. I have 98 power points and my rotation is COI(tabbed), Icy Terrain, Fanning Flame, and Disintegrate. For my passives I have Chilling Presence and Swath of Destruction slotted. All my powers are maxed at four and I did not have a companion summoned for any tests. I did use a Elixir of Corellin's Blood, and Superior Accuracy Elixir during all testing. I opened each fight with Scorching Burst and rimfire takes over from there once chill is proc'ed which happen as soon as COI is cast. Just in case there where any question about my character during these tests.
    What does this mean for CW's overall? I'm not sure, but as it stands now my CW is showing a pretty significant loss in her already paltry DPS. I don't want to hear about CW's only being secondary strikers, I get that but to the Developers and those supporting this "fix" tell me what I do as a Primary Controller in dungeon runs before and after this "fix". There is no reason for having my primary job around, mobs are pretty CC resistant (even when we are spec'ed for CC) and other classes who's secondary roles is controller, can actually do better at controlling mobs than a majority of CW's can, ohh and not to mention mobs all die pretty fast anyway.
    Again, I will reiterate that the only thing that changed for this testing was the lostmauth set. How am I going to make up for the 19 percent loss in DPS, does it matter? When I get some time this weekend I will test out Valindra's set and see if it make up for any of the loss or will I loss more dps (this more likely being the case). So ATM this is my feedback to all concerned, figure out how to make a Primary Controller more important for dungeon runs (and boost our current control abilities) and thus make our class needed for our primary jobs or find away to keep CW's somewhat competitive (I'm not asking to be TOP dps) with the DPS crowd so we don't lose a spot in dungeon runs or any content for that matter.
    I really want to support this "fix" to the lostmauth set but what I don't want to happen is what happened to during the leadership nerf. It was straight up taken away with nothing put in it place to balance AD sinks until at least a month later and with little AD increases over a 6 month period. I don't want my CW to lose her spot in dungeon runs because her dps is now considered subpar and there is no reason for a controller. Trust me when I say that people will be looking to make up for the loss in DPS by maybe adding more GWF's or SW's to a group which means CW's will be struggling to get into dungeon runs.

    Thanks for reading, just my two cents and my opinion.
    Post edited by uptondarkdiamond on
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    It is a valid point that CW are affected by a change in a set which was not really meant for them in the first place, but which they were basically pushed into using as it was the best one for them.

    I consider the Lostmauth change good and appropriate - it brings the set more in line with the other sets.

    However, it is necessary to look at the big picture - including the effects on the CWs.

    I therefore propose that CWs be adjusted as well...perhaps in the following ways:

    In PvE there are many elites/bosses which are immune to control. So, put the "Control" back in the CW by giving them a %chance to affect those critters.

    Buff one or two of the other sets (Valindra and/or Imperial) to make them of rougly equal performance as Lostmauth, but their stat bonuses should make them a better choice for CWs.

    Buff some of the CW spells in a way that would benefit high-crit DPS builds. The Lostmauth change seems to mean that the best CW DPS builds now lag too far behind other classes.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    asterotg said:

    Two things to comment on here.

    Why do you ask the community, when you ignore the majority vote?

    Second thing is, that you should not 'fix' an effect, that contributed up to 40% of the dps of some classes and be done with it. Thats shortsighted, everything else I could say to discribe my opinion would be censored. Lets say my CW generated 40% of his dps from ELOL-set (I dont know, I dont use ATC). This is a 40% dmg nerf.

    How about other classes. If the SW generates 10% from the set, he loses 10%. A good SW did 50%-100% more dmg than a similar geared CW, now its up to 200%, great balancing.

    If GF and DC did not benefit from the set as much as CW, they might be better DDs, than the CW, with better group utility (buffs/ debuffs tank/heal).

    I dont know, what exact effect this 'fix' will have, but I am sure, that this singular action will not balance anything.

    Okay, firstly when you, as a CW, are using the Lostmauth set purely for its proc bonus, something is clearly wrong. Remind me again what a CWs main attributes are? Well I can tell you with all certainty it isn't DEX or STR, which guess what, the Lostmauth set provides. I will shed no tears for any class that has 'abused' this set over the mods and now has to replace it. This should have happened a long time ago and is a welcome change. No proc effect should be doing anywhere close to the damage Lostmauth set bonus did, maybe at most 10% of your total damage and that might even be too much.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Sign In or Register to comment.