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Remove tenacity from gear and place it on the character sheet.

ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
edited March 2016 in General Discussion (PC)
Why not remove tenacity from gear sets (not including rings and gear set bonuses) and place it on the character sheet. This way all players start with a minimum base tenacity equivalent to a lionsmane set excluding the 3 piece set bonus.

Remove tenacity from gear and place it on the character sheet. 85 votes

Give all players a base tenacity equal to the tenacity of the lionsmane gear set and allow them to chose their gear as they like for bonuses and stats.
61%
micky1p00geoffreysissssshosantralafaxgt31077defiantone99essentibeckylunaticrayrdanvinceent1sangrinegankdalf#8991magenubbiedll32exearcofortep12darlo4ragnarazlandrsweatapodimasclawler22callofkutulu 52 votes
Keep the gear as it is, so new players are more likely to die faster in PVP because they don't have access to tenacity gear. It's better that they should have to acquire tenacity than have it given to them.
16%
solbergxrinat114daryardemonmongerpauliusxasfernuusomeonediescyencejacoboo16trill34dongaroudabeast969ariesden84bigbad#4796 14 votes
I don't care, tenacity or not I won't PVP.
22%
kvetcolierjuleadreamarabaturdarkstarcrashshadw2012damut1elmoregemstonewlinazbitt3rnightmar3liliabelluptondarkdiamondthefabricantwhiteheart80bonninedsn1118deathbeezwildfiredeixiliam 19 votes
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

imgur pics don't work


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Comments

  • wildfiredewildfirede Member Posts: 886 Arc User
    I don't care, tenacity or not I won't PVP.
    so if all players have tenacity would that be not the same as just nerfing pvp dps.... don't mind, don't see profit, don't pvp.
    Please fix Zhentarim Warlock companion's skill "Arcane Warping" to the originally intended "Arcane Boost"
    zhentarim-warlock-companion

    Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
    plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    Give all players a base tenacity equal to the tenacity of the lionsmane gear set and allow them to chose their gear as they like for bonuses and stats.

    so if all players have tenacity would that be not the same as just nerfing pvp dps.... don't mind, don't see profit, don't pvp.

    It puts all players who step foot into PVP a little closer in terms of the gear gap. As it stands if you walk into PVP in PVE gear with no tenacity you're highly likely to be one shotted by a PVPer. If you have this gear then you at least may take a full rotation or more which gives you the opportunity to learn your skills in the PVP arena.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • wildfiredewildfirede Member Posts: 886 Arc User
    I don't care, tenacity or not I won't PVP.
    On this i agree, part of me not doing pvp was the experience : rogue comes, does smokebomb or whatever and before i can move out of it my HP is gone, but i think for that to be different a larger rework of pvp is needed. slapping some tenacity on all toons and saying "we reworked pvp" would just be an excuse to not change anything else in the next 3 mods.
    Please fix Zhentarim Warlock companion's skill "Arcane Warping" to the originally intended "Arcane Boost"
    zhentarim-warlock-companion

    Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
    plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
  • cjh1983cjh1983 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 229 Arc User
    Give all players a base tenacity equal to the tenacity of the lionsmane gear set and allow them to chose their gear as they like for bonuses and stats.
    I have long advocated this as well. I would recommend appending this to say that the pvp sets should get tenacity redistributed top another stat and bumped slightly to make the pvp set worth pvp ing to acquire
  • saskdaddysaskdaddy Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    Give all players a base tenacity equal to the tenacity of the lionsmane gear set and allow them to chose their gear as they like for bonuses and stats.
    PvP has been broken for so long, it's become more than apparent Cryptic couldn't care less about it. A shame really... I came to this game because I liked the pvp set up of smaller groups (my previous game had alliance events with up to 60 people).

    Having said that, I quickly gave up on the pvp when I was consistantly matched by over geared players so far and above my level, I had zero chance of beating them. Being barely above 2K iL (at the time) and being matched with players 4K and above, with full sets of pvp gear I didn't even have access to, got old real fast.

    My own feelings are, there shouldn't be ANY pvp specific stats or gear. You should use whatever you've outfitted your toon with and not be entire sets of gear/items specifically for pvp. Otherwise you end up in the endless cycle players have quickly found themselves in... "You can't get pvp gear if you can't win in pvp... and you can't win in pvp if you don't have the very best of pvp gear".

    Eliminate the gear entirely, remove tenacity completely, and you open the playing field to every player in the game. Adjust the queues, so players will not be matched with those far above or far below their iL level, and you'll have a much more healthy and robust pvp community anxious to test their mettle.
    Queueing for pvp should be done by iL and iL only. Say every 500 iL is another 'rank'. So players 2.2K iL would face players NO higher than 2.5K iL, players they have a legitimate chance of actually beating. Restrict gear changes upon queue, so the whiners don't try removing 1/2 their gear to get into matches with under geared players they can mindlessly stomp.

    All these ideas (and tons more) have been suggested numerous times, and ignored by Cryptic every time, just as they (and any other suggestions made now) will be ignored. Cryptic doesn't care about pvp, not one little bit. And if you haven't realised this yet, you haven't been playing the game long enough.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    I would remove tenacity..

    I would also put limits on
    outgoing healing
    incoming healing
    CC resistance can only be at 20%
    CC duration gain can only be 20% gain.
    AP gain max can be 50% , any and all modifers, would be recuded by 50% of pve levels, while flagged for pvp.
    Crit % stuck at 75% for strikers, 50% for non strikers.
    Crit sev max 100%
    Power rating (put diminishing returns after 20k)
    I would remove all and any drains from game
    I would reduce paladins immunity and damage reduction abilities by half
    I would also reduce GFs damage by about 1/3rd of current.

    I would remove stupid things like perma steath.. or put a ring into play that is MUCH better then the crappy ones giving.
    I would fix shadowclad not to give perma.. (stupid)

    I know that wouldnt be popular.

    But frankly until a list like this is done.. pvp is mostly dead.

    tenacity HAS done nothing after the first wave, except make another additional grind level that isnt needed.

    removal of SAID gate, would encourage new players to join.

  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    Give all players a base tenacity equal to the tenacity of the lionsmane gear set and allow them to chose their gear as they like for bonuses and stats.
    I know a fair number of people who gave up on PvP basically the moment it actually required them to wear different equipment than their PvE gear. They had previously been occasional PvP players, but had no interest in grinding a second set of equipment, or enchant-swapping, or anything of that sort.
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  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    arp stacking is another in the long lines of stupidity.. like 60% should be the cap on that as well , same as pve.

    150% +arp ftw.. holy jebbus.. I had my cw like at 110% when i was still tooling around in pvp alot.. was actually hard to dump it. and this is before the vicious enchants and other junk was involved, never had that arp mount either.

    Who sits around and thinks of these things.. seriously.




  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Keep the gear as it is, so new players are more likely to die faster in PVP because they don't have access to tenacity gear. It's better that they should have to acquire tenacity than have it given to them.
    This proposal is a blatant nerf. I say no to your leading yet misleading poll
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Keep the gear as it is, so new players are more likely to die faster in PVP because they don't have access to tenacity gear. It's better that they should have to acquire tenacity than have it given to them.
    If you want to pvp get pvp gear If you want to pve use pvp or pve gear.. it's that simple... weapons don't change only armor...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • bitt3rnightmar3bitt3rnightmar3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 788 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    I don't care, tenacity or not I won't PVP.
    I liked GG PVP back when you could earn PVP gear from doing GG PVE content dungeons. That was fun! SH PVP is full of lag and people who can kill my PVE self immediately- not worth my time. If the dungeons were back in GG Maybe GG wouldn't be so dead? As of now it's completely useless unless I want to go there and be farmbait for a full premade. :/

    I like doing dungeons. If there was an alternative path to earning gear that was not directly pvp related maybe it would be interesting enough for me to take at least one of my alts through the experience of PVPing.. as of now it seems like the least fun thing possible. No sense of sportsmanship or fair fighting.
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  • yokki1yokki1 Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    where is the option that there is no point to having a poll about that
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    Give all players a base tenacity equal to the tenacity of the lionsmane gear set and allow them to chose their gear as they like for bonuses and stats.
    yokki1 said:

    where is the option that there is no point to having a poll about that

    Right next to the forum trolls are not very creative option.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    ArP without a cap was the worst idea ever. Even if new players slap on some starter pvp gear their defenses will still be reduced to 0% due to 140%+ RI these people have obtained. If dying in 2 hits wasn't enough, They can't even do 100 damage to these people who just regen it back.

    Why has the population been reduced to tumble weeds? This is why. New players and potential investors stand no chance.
  • joyousdecieverjoyousdeciever Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 127 Arc User
    tenacity was introduced back with the old lvl 60 class specific t2 sets you know when there was some variety in gear selection ... it was to get ppl away from using pve sets with bonus' that they just couldn't get balanced out in pvp without ruining them for pve but now that they have gone generic with all set bonus ect it should be added to all sets imo... but that said starter pvp set is easy to get ... blue guild pvp set beats purple pve just because of the tenacity rating in pvp... what they really need to do to balance the gear gap is as i have said many times .... IL brackets with auto kick and sever penalties (24 hr pvp lockout first offense add 2 hours each subsequent offense ) for sandbagging .... stripping down to get into lower il bracket then gearing back up
    make it so each bracket has a separate q checkbox allow players that are great players / with good builds go up one bracket but do not allow ppl to fight in brackets below their il at time of q and kick automatically if il exceeds il bracket top il.... shouldnt be that hard game already recognizes IL for dungeon minimums ect


    suggested brackets at lvl 70
    > 2k
    2k-2499
    2500-2999
    3k-3499
    3500-3999
    4k+


    it would not be perfect by any means but it would allow newer players to play against ppl at at least closely geared and may entice some of the competitive pvp players to run a lower il set to pvp in more active brackets and prove their skill not just that their wallet is fatter.. and having a chance may get players newer to pvp to stick around long enough to spend some money !!!!
  • flehstifferflehstiffer Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
    Give all players a base tenacity equal to the tenacity of the lionsmane gear set and allow them to chose their gear as they like for bonuses and stats.
    I agree 100% with morenthar here. I highly resent the fact that there are only 2 sets to choose from, unless you want to "downgrade" to a set with less stats to get what you want.
  • trill34trill34 Member Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    Keep the gear as it is, so new players are more likely to die faster in PVP because they don't have access to tenacity gear. It's better that they should have to acquire tenacity than have it given to them.
    I like that Tenacity is restricted to PVP gear because it creates a progression and grind that happens strictly within PVP. You start out in PVP blues (or the 65-70 PVP leveling gear) with minimal Tenacity, and you have to fight (and win) your way through stages of acquiring, replacing, infusing, etc. your gear. It doesn't take forever, especially if you're an established player in a guild, and it gives new PVP-ers the chance to work their way through some sort of progression/learning curve before they max out their gear.

    In my opinion, I think the problem is that PVP gear is lagging behind PVE gear when it should be at least as good. Tenacity gear should have at least the same stats as PVE gear of the same tier. I also think there should be more variety of gear and set bonuses, like there is with PVE. It's silly that there wasn't at least one cool Demonic-themed PVP set in Mods 8 or 9. In PVE we got two new sets with marginally interesting set bonuses for the content, but no new PVP sets with interesting, thematically-appropriate PVP set bonuses.

    Caveat: I mostly play PVE, so take the above with that grain of salt.
    Post edited by trill34 on
  • matthiasthehun76matthiasthehun76 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,183 Arc User
    Give all players a base tenacity equal to the tenacity of the lionsmane gear set and allow them to chose their gear as they like for bonuses and stats.
    While i voted for the first option, i still hold on to my belief, this would be just a small step and probably wouldn't change all too much for the lower geared crowds, who are currently missing from the battlefields and we all know, without fresh blood nothing can persist.

    Like your idea @tolkienbuff , it came up a few times, nice try, but for me it's like a road full of holes, does one patch help. I guess not much.

    Removing tenacity would definitely help the mass crowd, cause obtaining PVP gear is now impossible and you wouldn't need to have to upkeep 2 sets. But would it attract more players in the long term? Hmm don't know for sure, my guess for the future would be a clear no. There are simply too much things separating the players, mainly huge boons, mounts (now even worse with stable and insignias) and then i didn't go into class balance. There are some nice ideas above me, no need to repeat them.

    Item level brackets would have helped in the past, but since Mod 7 SH we need something other, simply a new type of GS/IL for PVP at least. I can fight against a 2,8k GWF with my 3,3 TR and at first glance i may look like i would need another bracket, but then again, on second look, i am way weaker then him, cause i have just 2 small boons.
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  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    Give all players a base tenacity equal to the tenacity of the lionsmane gear set and allow them to chose their gear as they like for bonuses and stats.

    While i voted for the first option, i still hold on to my belief, this would be just a small step and probably wouldn't change all too much for the lower geared crowds, who are currently missing from the battlefields and we all know, without fresh blood nothing can persist.

    Like your idea @tolkienbuff , it came up a few times, nice try, but for me it's like a road full of holes, does one patch help. I guess not much.

    Removing tenacity would definitely help the mass crowd, cause obtaining PVP gear is now impossible and you wouldn't need to have to upkeep 2 sets. But would it attract more players in the long term? Hmm don't know for sure, my guess for the future would be a clear no. There are simply too much things separating the players, mainly huge boons, mounts (now even worse with stable and insignias) and then i didn't go into class balance. There are some nice ideas above me, no need to repeat them.

    Item level brackets would have helped in the past, but since Mod 7 SH we need something other, simply a new type of GS/IL for PVP at least. I can fight against a 2,8k GWF with my 3,3 TR and at first glance i may look like i would need another bracket, but then again, on second look, i am way weaker then him, cause i have just 2 small boons.

    It is a first small step but the only way to get to a destination is by taking steps. As for item level brackets there's an even bigger problem than factoring in boons... There simply aren't enough players Qing for PVP to make a bracketed Q system any more. You'd be waiting in Q for hours to be matched only to a specific IL bracket.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • arabaturarabatur Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 778 Arc User
    I don't care, tenacity or not I won't PVP.
    Unless Cryptic can gain financially from this, I would not expect any changes.
    Definitely not an Arc User.
  • sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    Give all players a base tenacity equal to the tenacity of the lionsmane gear set and allow them to chose their gear as they like for bonuses and stats.
    People have been asking to remove Tenacity from pvp since Tenacity was first added to pvp.
    Cryptic would rather design an entire new module focused on pvp, and watch as no one plays it, than to remove Tenacity from gear. You may as well ask Cryptic to nerf Paladins or reduce AP gain. Your requests are futile.
  • solbergxsolbergx Member Posts: 654 Arc User
    Keep the gear as it is, so new players are more likely to die faster in PVP because they don't have access to tenacity gear. It's better that they should have to acquire tenacity than have it given to them.
    I think the pvp system it's good. just the queuing should be fixed so you don't have players with 4k IL fighting 1.1.7k IL newbs
  • gankdalf#8991 gankdalf Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 930 Arc User
    Give all players a base tenacity equal to the tenacity of the lionsmane gear set and allow them to chose their gear as they like for bonuses and stats.
    Its a nobrainer. Ofc everyone should have base tenacity without having to pvp in pve gear to get enough glory to buy tenacity gear. This is just one of the many stupid problems in PvP than can easily be fixed.

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  • santralafaxsantralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    Give all players a base tenacity equal to the tenacity of the lionsmane gear set and allow them to chose their gear as they like for bonuses and stats.
    Cryptic, I am sure, makes much more money getting people to maintain 2 sets of gear.
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