Question to Devs: How does Tyranical Threat work? 3.8M and 9M hits

btfd · January 2016

Starting this post all over...

Hey guys,

I just wanted to show you what can be achieved if the support roles actually support the dps classes and the dps classes know how to use their powers. I am NOT using bonding runestone companion, elol set or puppet. This lead to the case of insane high TT hits, which I was able to record two of them. But how do you get such high hits?

This is my (FLAWED) explanation:
<blockquote class="Quote" rel="btfd">TT scales with buffs. Imagine doing a 10k hit (to keep it simple) to a TTed monster. This, with the right group, will be buffed to like 100k (just to show the principle and again to keep it simple, most of the time it's even more. My Soul Scorches went up to 800k per hit at 15-16k power with a great buff troup). Now TT takes 30% of that 100k hit -> 30k. Again buffs scale this up the same amount like before -> 300k, which is the damage all other targets receive. Now TT the boss and an add with large HP pool, communicate with your team to make them activate all their buffs at the same time and hit the add with Soul Scorch, not the boss. This way the boss will take the TT damage which is way bigger than the actual damage your soul Scorch hit does. All in all I had a run where these buffs were enough to onehit the first two etos Bosses with one single Soul Scorch -> TT hit.</blockquote>

Let's have a look at our first example
3.8M Hit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKxNamxWTcs

@thefabricant about that 3.8M TT hit:<blockquote class="Quote" rel="thefabricant"> "the hit that lead to the boss dying damaged him for roughly 300k (was 298k, but for the sake of easy maths...) this was the hit that triggered the 3.88M hit that killed the boss, so to put it this way...
30% of 300k is ~~100k
3.88M/100k is ~~39
you would need to multiply the damage dealt 39 times to deal that much damage, or a 3900% damage buff. If I am not mistaken, the buffs in the party don't scale anywhere near that much and if they did, your initial hit with soul scorch was 7.6k.

The explanation seems a little flawed as it just doesn't seem like there were enough buffs to make up that much of a difference.. (Sorry for bothering you about this, now that I have started looking into locks again I am trying to gain a complete understanding of TT and it seems like something is missing from the puzzle)"</blockquote>

This doesn't just happen "sometimes". Everytime a GF is in the party SW is able to deal more or less insane TT hits.
Here another 9M Hit:

https://youtu.be/uJmtzPLuz78

If I see it the right way I hit the assassin with a crit of 1.051.760
30% of 1.051.760 = 315.528
now 9.147.498/315.528 = 28,99
this way there'd be a lesser damage buff as in the 3.8m video, resulting in much more dmg, but my initial soul scorch hit would be at 36.280

So anybody who has any ideas about what is missing in my calculation? Any Developer to explain this to us? Let us solve the mystery of TT!

Unknown · January 2016

This content has been removed.

thefabricant · January 2016

magenubbie said:
I would say impressive if you didn't post this for no other reason than to stroke your own ego. "look what I can do if people help me!"
If you wanted to share this for educational purposes you'd have explained who did what and why so you could achieve this number and give people something to think about. Oh well. Ego's need to be stroked too I suppose.

I have actually considered doing this for a while, the issue is, I don't know all the buffs/debuffs from all the different classes. I can explain DC/OP/CW fairly effectively, as well as gear sets and enchants, but I cannot explain the other classes adequately. It would definitely have to be a joint effort.

btfd · January 2016

<blockquote class="Quote" rel="magenubbie">"If you wanted to share this for educational purposes you'd have explained who did what and why so you could achieve this number and give people something to think about."</blockquote>

Well this is actually just to show that there can be more overall damage by supporting instead of everybody doing his "own" damage. I already posted this for educational purpose. I tried to explain this earlier in a post on SW forums as it's a SW thing... at least I told how I was told it worked: for example your Soul Scorch hit does 10k dmg to keep it simple. This gets buffed to 100k. TT takes 30% of this -> 30k. Those 30k get buffed in the same relation your previous hit got buffed, so 30k -> 300k. Most of the times buffs are much higher resulting in much higher TT damage. Biggest TT damage I have ever seen was 16M. But @thefabricant told me there seems to be missing something in that calculation... You can read our posts, see another video about it and the explanation in this thread: http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1205018/soul-madness-pve-build-my-way-to-1-paingiver/p1

But you're right, I should've linked that before.

blinxon · January 2016

Sry..but i still think TT isnt WAI. I think its kinda + 30% from Grp too. And i believe there is a kindy loop that shouldnt be.
But till i dont know how excactly this isnt WAI is all i have to say: Nice Hit

P.S.: Can you do me a favour? I know who you mean with this 16M hit from last year. Maybe you miss him so much that you must tell this lill story over and over again, but a 16M hit with ( you it was at this time) a bugged skill is nothing that you need to write dozen times. No offense. Just saying.

thefabricant · January 2016

blinxon said:
Sry..but i still think TT isnt WAI. I think its kinda + 30% from Grp too. And i believe there is a kindy loop that shouldnt be.
But till i dont know how excactly this isnt WAI is all i have to say: Nice Hit

P.S.: Can you do me a favour? I know who you mean with this 16M hit from last year. Maybe you miss him so much that you must tell this lill story over and over again, but a 16M hit with ( you it was at this time) a bugged skill is nothing that you need to write dozen times. No offense. Just saying.

In the video for our eCC kill, the GWF Snoo Snoo got a 16M IBS on the last hit that killed the boss.

btfd · January 2016

blinxon said:
Sry..but i still think TT isnt WAI. I think its kinda + 30% from Grp too. And i believe there is a kindy loop that shouldnt be.

Actually it would be really nice to know how TT works exactly, as the calculation seems to be missing something. Sad I don't know how to do more extensive research about this or where to approach any further...
I'm always happy about ideas about this, too bad that +X% dmg from group is hard to test
Maybe a mod or even dev can tell us more about it?

thefabricant said:
In the video for our eCC kill, the GWF Snoo Snoo got a 16M IBS on the last hit that killed the boss.

That was my intention, to show the importance of buffs and what a huge influence they can have like we did in our ECC video where everybody wondered how this one got so fast :P

blinxon · January 2016

thefabricant said:

In the video for our eCC kill, the GWF Snoo Snoo got a 16M IBS on the last hit that killed the boss.

Our main gwf made his IBS with 9,9mio and we cant give him HV Set and we got only 1 renegade in grp

. Like snoo in his grp we try to give him all the buffs we can ( i think our GWF is BIS too, but we screw a bit in buffing/debuffing ^^ )....but check the grp from btfd in this vid. I cant see a really helping debuff/buff grp in this vid. Or do i miss something. fabricant, i know if all buffs work properly you can make huge dps ( funny that an encounter power makes most dps on GWF, isnt it? ^^ Shouldnt it be a dailie? ^^), but TT allways was a skill i cant trust that this works WAI. And no one ( and i mean really no one) can explain how it really works.
Like i told to btfd:
It was no offense...its my opinion and last year it was clear not WAI. Thats why they tried to fix it. You dont have to jump in this thread and protect btfd ^^. I know him ingame . He dont need a bodyguard ^^.
So dont be upset. I just told my opinion on this skill. But if you wont it, its absolutely ok for me. Cya in peace.

thefabricant · January 2016

blinxon said:

thefabricant said:

In the video for our eCC kill, the GWF Snoo Snoo got a 16M IBS on the last hit that killed the boss.
Our main gwf made his IBS with 9,9mio and we cant give him HV Set and we got only 1 renegade in grp . Like snoo in his grp we try to give him all the buffs we can ( i think our GWF is BIS too, but we screw a bit in buffing/debuffing ^^ )....but check the grp from btfd in this vid. I cant see a really helping debuff/buff grp in this vid. Or do i miss something. fabricant, i know if all buffs work properly you can make huge dps ( funny that an encounter power makes most dps on GWF, isnt it? ^^ Shouldnt it be a dailie? ^^), but TT allways was a skill i cant trust that this works WAI. And no one ( and i mean really no one) can explain how it really works.
Like i told to btfd:
It was no offense...its my opinion and last year it was clear not WAI. Thats why they tried to fix it. You dont have to jump in this thread and protect btfd ^^. I know him ingame very well. He dont need a bodyguard ^^.
So dont be upset. I just told my opinion on this skill.

Oh I 100% agree, TT, murderous flames, the soul puppet and some other stuff on SW isn't exactly WAI, but you cannot build a SW without any of it, so I let it slide until it gets fixed

I was just providing another example of a high hit.

btfd · January 2016

I always notice that GF buff has the most impact on such hardcore TT hits. But idk if there are other buffs that huge, compared to ITF, that also could have an important role or if its just an addition of many "small" buffs

blinxon · January 2016

thefabricant said:

Oh I 100% agree, TT, murderous flames, the soul puppet and some other stuff on SW isn't exactly WAI, but you cannot build a SW without any of it, so I let it slide until it gets fixed I was just providing another example of a high hit.

I know you provide another example. But when i saw the grp i cant compare to the ecc grp with snoo. And ofc you cant build a SW without it. I also think devs are at least so clueless as we how TT really works ^^. And because its o hard to verify ( you heared terra how he was talking about the unstoppable bug at the stream? that was so funny. I laughed a lot ^^) this, its obvious you must build a SW with it and they never gonna change that, cuzz they cant. And its totally ok for me. Everyone tries to make the best of his class. Thats fine. I let it slide too ^^.
I know Naz is a nice person and he is trying to figure out how TT works and why it can make such huge hit. And i know he knows his SW very well. Better than a dev i bet. So no offense again, Naz.

But no Kuro Hits anymore plz...im beggin you...

benistvan · January 2016

btfd said:
at least I told how I was told it worked: for example your Soul Scorch hit does 10k dmg to keep it simple. This gets buffed to 100k. TT takes 30% of this -> 30k. .

What do you mean by 30%? TT distributes 50% but there were no mobs in this video!

btfd · January 2016

blinxon said:
So no offense again, Naz.

Don't worry, we're cool

benistvan said:

btfd said:
at least I told how I was told it worked: for example your Soul Scorch hit does 10k dmg to keep it simple. This gets buffed to 100k. TT takes 30% of this -> 30k. .
What do you mean by 30%? TT distributes 50% but there were no mobs in this video!

Since Mod6 TT "only" takes 30% of you damage to deal it to surrounding enemies. But because of what I wrote these 30% can be buffed extremely high and if you don't directly attack the boss but a mob like the assassin in the video, the boss becomes one of the "surrounding enemies" getting that extremely high buffed TT damage. As the boss has much more HP he is able to get much more damage compared to mobs.

blinxon · January 2016

benistvan said:

but there were no mobs in this video!

Are you sure? Look very closely at 0:27 min ^^.

kolatmaster · January 2016

This is how Tyrannical Threat operates in the Neverwinter universe:

btfd · January 2016

@kolatmaster as one of the few guys being familiar with SW in NW, do you have any clue about how TT REALLY works?

minaminka · January 2016

benistvan said:

btfd said:
at least I told how I was told it worked: for example your Soul Scorch hit does 10k dmg to keep it simple. This gets buffed to 100k. TT takes 30% of this -> 30k. .
What do you mean by 30%? TT distributes 50% but there were no mobs in this video!

It takes 30%, they nerfed it few monts ago...

benistvan · January 2016

btfd said:

Since Mod6 TT "only" takes 30% of you damage to deal it to surrounding enemies. But because of what I wrote these 30% can be buffed extremely high and if you don't directly attack the boss but a mob like the assassin in the video, the boss becomes one of the "surrounding enemies" getting that extremely high buffed TT damage. As the boss has much more HP he is able to get much more damage compared to mobs.

Nice. Thanks for explanation:)
So that indirect soul scorth on the assasin would make less dmg on Halbryn if it would have been shot on the boss?

Btw I thought 30% is the damage distribution on rank 1. And the "damage link +10%" on the rank upgrades is further +10%.

btfd · January 2016

benistvan said:
So that indirect soul scorth on the assasin would make less dmg on Halbryn if it would have been shot on the boss?

If you fire your soul scorch directly at the boss he gets way LESS dmg as if he was hit by TT (notice: the directly attacked target won't get hit by TT, as he is the point where the damage is split). If you hit him with TT (by not hitting the boss with Soul Scorch, but an assassin close to the boss f.e.) the damage dealt to the boss is MUCH higher

Unknown · February 2016

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blinxon · February 2016

No one says it must be nerfed. We just wanna know how it works. Can you explain it?

scathias · February 2016

etelgrin, TT does not take party damage and pass it through to adds anymore, that was fixed back in mod 4 so it can not have been a GWF hit that made TT do that much damage.
Also, just to expand on your comment about the SW curse mechanic, If you curse 1 target then that target takes 20% more damage, if you curse 2 targets then the damage bonus is split between them and they take +10% damage each. Split between 3 targets and the targets take +6.666% damage each

lerapiso818 · February 2016

btfd said:
I always notice that GF buff has the most impact on such hardcore TT hits. But idk if there are other buffs that huge, compared to ITF, that also could have an important role or if its just an addition of many "small" buffs

Based on this, maybe your 30% TT damage got buffed a second time since it's considered a new source of damage, I don't know anything about SW but if you get a lot of personnal buff + your party buff + the boss debuff, +3900% damage can be reachable, even if this party looks a litle light on the buff/debuff side to reach this amount.

If a gwf can deal 10m damage in a single IBS that deal 100k crit without any buff, it looks ok to me if your 100k became 3.88m.

So I think these 30% get buffed, and you can easily test it on dummies with your GF friend.
If it's not this, I've no clue, there will never be enough debuff in a 5man party to get -3900% DR

ghoulz66 · February 2016

Proly right about that. Popped it in Biggrin's tomb by myself and like usual, everything SLOWLY died. Why can't the bloody class just perform/function plain and simple on it's own. The class that has the least to offer in a group has the most to gain from them.

Question to Devs: How does Tyranical Threat work? 3.8M and 9M hits

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