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State of old dungeons, now that underdark is out the door

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  • evaliraevalira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 245 Arc User
    Maybe they will remove the bosses in the dungeons and replace them with Heroic Encounters, so we get to have HE's in dungeons.
  • yokki1yokki1 Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    evalira said:

    Maybe they will remove the bosses in the dungeons and replace them with Heroic Encounters, so we get to have HE's in dungeons.

    lol. or put HEs in inventory so if you need to use/move/sell something in inventory you have to complete a HE . 100 times *ominous music*
  • santralafaxsantralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User

    ghoulz66 said:

    I'd still love to know why the dungeon reworks are TAKING so much time. The maps are already done, the mobs are there, there is a boss. So it takes a year just to tweak some enemies!?

    That's exactly my reason for not believing they will return as dungeons but will be re-used in "new" content similar to the 2 dungeons we "got back" this mod. That said, I still have a tiny bit of hope left that I'll be proven wrong.
    I hope you are mistaken. In mods 4 & 5, when I got started, I wasn't doing any dungeon crawling, so I haven't gotten to do them YET!!!!

    What two were used in this module? I'm sure they're ones I specifically wanted to do, because I specifically wanted to do ALL of them. Except maybe Dread Vault. My GWF is a wimp. :-)
  • santralafaxsantralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    evalira said:

    Maybe they will remove the bosses in the dungeons and replace them with Heroic Encounters, so we get to have HE's in dungeons.

    Ah, dynamic content. Replayable!
  • sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    My predictions.

    The dungeons will return, but entry will require a new currency that can only be earned by doing hundreds of new HE's. You will need to earn this each time you wish to enter one.

    After each boss, you will need to open a door to continue. Opening the door will require another type of currency only available by donating millions of resources to a stronghold.

    The end of the dungeon will have a final chest. That can only be opened by keys that can only be won from lockboxes.
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited December 2015

    I recall...

    Instead of cross-posting, do read existing threads please. Thread merged and cross-post removed. I addressed this already in a previous reply:
    zebular said:

    Scott (aka Goatshark) said:

    Dungeon reworks are in process. I can't say too much more at this time, but look for more details during the development of our upcoming expansion.
    We have a number of dungeon reworks in process. More information will come out after the launch of Underdark on Tuesday (during the development of our next expansion).
    We are not bringing the dungeons back in Underdark, but they will be coming back in upcoming modules.
    Alex (aka yetweallfalldown) said:
    As Scott mentioned earlier, we'll have some additional details after we get Underdark out the door.
    So, in short: As blogs and information comes out about the next expansion, expect to hear news on the return of the reworked delves.As for the stream you're referring to, there's been quite a number of them where they've responded about the missing delves. Here's a transcript from what they said in the latest one, just prior to the AMA quotes above:

    Sean states: "I'm seeing people ask in chat about the dungeons. None of the dungeons are returning in Mod 8, but it is something that we are working on."

    Lindsay, nodding: "It is something we're looking into, and definitely WANT to bring them back for you guys. We know that it is something we took away so we're definitely trying to get them back to you as soon as we can."

    Andy asks: "So the reason for it, taking them away is to rebalance them?"

    Lindsay replied: "Yeah, when we put in Module 6, we wanted to actually bring all of them up so they would be relevant to the new end games, instead of leaving them where they are so they wouldn't be obsolete. But what happened was that it was just over ambitious for us. We when we pulled them all out, we realized that we were going to have to refactor all the loot rewards for the new end game. We would have to change our level scaling and a lot of stuff that was going on there, and we just didn't have time. The ambitions we had with Strongholds and then Module 8 would require a remodel to the Wizards of the Coast's storyline, we just didn't have time to do them justice. Now we have time now so we're starting to look into those more a bit."


  • santralafaxsantralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    I'll just have to refrain from commenting. What I think of the "new endgame" from April on, what I think of the 8 months since the dungeons were pulled, and much more. I'd just explode.
  • daniloslvdaniloslv Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    I miss them too and would love to play them again.

    But the truth is that, with the current reward system we have in place today, they won't be played. Just like Greater Wolf Den is not played.

    Players will only play the fastest and easiest content available.

    The only reason someone would queue for them is to get loot, and the faster the better. I have been waiting over an hour to see eGWD pop, and that with a tank character, and I get no queue to pop. That is a clear sign that nobody is queuing for it.

    If devs bring them back, they also need a loot rework or they will abandoned ghost content.

    I don't see the Neverwinter player base running Castle Never, Spellplague or Dread Vault, dungeons that would take about an hour to finish, to get some seals + a couple salvageable drops.

    With the current reward system we have in place today, those dungeons would not be played by this game's community.

    It is a sad state, but it is the truth about Neverwinter player base.
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  • rollingonitrollingonit Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    daniloslv said:

    snip

    I agree with this, but it seems to be a product of devs/pubs cutting time/reward as population drops to increase profit in every game.

    Just look at GW2 forums, you are going to see very similiar topics about them cutting rewards. Look at the archeage forums, they have an interesting debacle going on with the dev vs pub communication. CS GO just added a new pistol and adjusted a few things with rifles, the community is blowing up cause the pistol is like a hand cannon and the rifle changes seem to be viewed as unfavorable by the pros. Hearthstone is really starting to see the power creep as a CCG.

    Every pub/dev seems to be squeezing as much as they can for some reason. They are spending too much on marketing and hype rather than focusing on improving the games for the players. But they know these games have a finite life. So IDK it's hard to blame them when you realize they arent making games really for gamers, they are providing services attempting to maximize profit. It's a sad state of affair for the players. But they have short memories and just move to the next hyped thing the same dev/pub puts out.....

    But I completely agree and it looks like that is one thing they are/were looking at with the dungeons. Was trying to balance the rewards. I hope they get it right.


    edit: i have played all these games extensively except archeage. tried it once found it to be a p2w/trollers dream. no thank you. So im basing this off experience not 2nd hand accounts.
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  • vorticanvortican Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 367 Arc User
    daniloslv said:

    I miss them too and would love to play them again.
    Players will only play the fastest and easiest content available...

    If devs bring them back, they also need a loot rework or they will abandoned ghost content.

    I don't see the Neverwinter player base running Castle Never, Spellplague or Dread Vault, dungeons that would take about an hour to finish, to get some seals + a couple salvageable drops.

    With the current reward system we have in place today, those dungeons would not be played by this game's community.

    It is a sad state, but it is the truth about Neverwinter player base.

    This is true. People will run them if they can sell the loot on the auction house. Frankly, we need that activity since most of what's on the auction house that people actually buy is botted stuff. I personally like the fact that the existing dungeons don't take a damn hour to run. There's nothing wrong with fast content as long as it's fun and the rewards are worth the effort. There needs to be a good variety of content if and when they do bring them back. Folks are running Underdark because it's the newest thing. If the dungeons are all brought back at once and have decent balance and a chance at dropping loot that players want and can make decent AD, folks will run them all day long.
  • nahelstania#3804 nahelstania Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    I'll second the rewards issue.
    Content needs to have rewards worth investing time in plus not have them Brickwalled behind ludicrous requirements (aka masterwork, WoD boons for Linu's you can't get unless you play 24/7, etc etc)

    I understand some stuff shouldn't be a walk in the park to get, but what about making it interesting to get them, apart from being difficult ?

    Look at what happened to Tiamat....

    It's bad to make the old stuff become obsolete when new content is rolled out.

    People should be motivated to run those too, not entirely give up on old content as soon as they have reached the "end game" stuff.

    (maybe a bad idea but just a way to think it over differently)
    IE. Put Twisted Ichor Drops in successful Tiamat runs if certain requirements are met (ie people with high iL queue and gather in certain isntances for a run)

    Then queue in some of the newer players working in wod.

    This way, you'll put both old and new people in the same area, fight for different rewards and push both of them forward in the game.

    New players will start doing Tiamat Again, old players will maybe start working on all of the final boons (30 and 50 linu's worth)
    and people working on twisted sets etc will have an alternative (maybe help guildies get WoD boons or artifacts) whilst they get something worth their time and effort (twisted ichor?)
    I understand it will kinda sound out of context (mixing mod 8 rewards into an older mod) but demonic HE's are already in WoD aren't there ?

    Same goes for the few dungeons available now.

    Make random demonic appearances in normal Dungeon runs that give you the chance to some twisted ichor.
    Put them accross the board so that people start queueing for sth else apart eTOS....

    Or introduce them like the daily Mod 8 daily extra reward,

    Today: Get a chance of twisted Ichor Drop in the chest of eGWD
    Today: Get a chance of twisted Ichor drop in chest of eCC
    etc etc...

    It's so easy to bring all of the game;s content back to life. :) see ?
  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    daniloslv said:

    [...] they won't be played. Just like Greater Wolf Den is not played.

    Players will only play the fastest and easiest content available. [...]

    They will when there's no specific incentive. That's been one of the things I liked about the old model: You had to play all the T1s or T2s in order to get your set complete (or fling out often heavy AD on the AH).

    With the Token-ification having taken over ALL the game, it's easier to play the easier dungeons, ofc. Especially since there's absolutely no to extremely little incentive to specifically aim for one set... ...armor, apart from the Elven stuff, is basically twinkable. Meh. Or bought with GuildMarks, or even bought with TarmaBars - the latter being even more Meh and P2W.

    So why would a sane player really want to do the annoying bossfight of GWD, apart from bragging rights, when there's other options where I get the same reward in way less time...


    Face it: With "The Dungeons Strike Back", there should also be an appropriate helping of specific, useful, and _desireable_ gear. A trick that the vilified set bonus did achieve nicely...

    ...so, basically, this could also be the introduction of a new set of artifacts/ArtiGear, or the inclusion of an artifact with a higher-than-0,5%-chance in the bosschest, like those ca. 10% we had had pre-Mod-6. Or there could be a _huge_ bunch of RP, AD, and/or SH token vouchers in that chest - just make running through them matter in any way whatsoever.

    But I'm somewhat optimistic that even the mere re-inroduction will spark interest enough, just if there's only the selfsame Seals to collect, that interest will soon wane - measured in low single digit weeks, I'd presume...
  • clericalistclericalist Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 595 Arc User

    My predictions.

    The dungeons will return, but entry will require a new currency that can only be earned by doing hundreds of new HE's. You will need to earn this each time you wish to enter one.

    After each boss, you will need to open a door to continue. Opening the door will require another type of currency only available by donating millions of resources to a stronghold.

    The end of the dungeon will have a final chest. That can only be opened by keys that can only be won from lockboxes.

    And after all that, the chest will contain a peridot as the reward.
  • xgrandz02xgrandz02 Member Posts: 702 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    Seriously guys!,

    You should start forgetting the old dungeons, old stuff,
    Let the Devs focus on bringing "New & better stuff", instead of old things.
    (we had more than enough of recycling things already inGame..)

    The Devs should focus on:

    - New dungeons,
    - New boss fight dynamics/ more tactics / more risk
    - New challenges and modes
    - New maps / content
    - New Events (with new maps/mini games)
    - New Classes or New "Advancements for our classes" with Unique Skills for each class-


    I'm more than sure if the devs bring the old dungeons back,
    "after a week" you all will call for "new stuff" cuz all this dungeons are Boring again"
    You all will cry about Bad loot, nothing new, too easy etc etc..just QQ.

    For me I dont want to see the old stuff ,
    I will see a completely new things which Impressing me to keep playing the game no matter what!

    let be realistic & serious 2016 is almost here,
    this means "NW need to Grow up ", to keep standing against the "newcomers" like "black desert" and many others.

    <::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    Devs, i just need to remind your dev team.
    please bring back original dungeon seals, even through they need update version of rewards and tradings i am still stuck with 17 drake seals, just short of 20 needed for a bag of diamonds, they are nowhere able to spend.
    i am offering a new concept for seals.
    trade in 50 drakes for 10 zen points, or trade in for designer marks or buy relics, you can create or set some ideas, also if any dungeons that rewards drake or manicore seals, make sure these dungeons similar to Star Trek's PVE que with 30 mins cooldowns if that would help preventing overfarming or exploits by the "bots".

    anyway, about Temple of Elemental, they do exist on Greyhawk's realm, and they can "planar" shift into Forgotten Realms just like Micheal Moorcock's Tanelorn the "Vanishing Tower" in Elric Saga. because every world got those "prime" elemental planes, it could appear mysteriously on Krynn the Dragonlance series or Ravenloft for limited time. his theory of "Conjuntion of Million Spheres", also could appear on HP Lovecraft's Cthulthu series.

    Gary Gygax had made it possible and i am sure Ed Greenwood would want that too.
    remember, these elemental leaders really dont work as team, a group could fight a boss before the next one jump into the fight and push out one of the leader and then repeat til all 4 are nearly exhausted and become more deadly for final fight stage.
  • kitkathdkitkathd Member Posts: 286 Arc User
    Forget about rebalancing. Release them as they were and add in a lesser Genies gift as a common reward and a Genies gift as a rare reward along with some classic artifacts. I don't want day 1 dungeons reintroduced as new content reworked. I'm sick of recycled content, its the reason I stopped playing this game. Release them as is with original level limitations and start working on bringing us a legit real underdark dungeon if you have some "spare time." The new module is a complete joke without a single dungeon. How could you even justify it. Did you even look at the other companies running the Rage of Demons storyline? Do you not see how embarassing your title release is compared to theirs? The other game literally looks like the neverwinter 3 we deserved out of neverwinter online!
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    kitkathd said:

    Forget about rebalancing. Release them as they were and add in a lesser Genies gift as a common reward and a Genies gift as a rare reward along with some classic artifacts. I don't want day 1 dungeons reintroduced as new content reworked. I'm sick of recycled content, its the reason I stopped playing this game. Release them as is with original level limitations and start working on bringing us a legit real underdark dungeon if you have some "spare time." The new module is a complete joke without a single dungeon. How could you even justify it. Did you even look at the other companies running the Rage of Demons storyline? Do you not see how embarassing your title release is compared to theirs? The other game literally looks like the neverwinter 3 we deserved out of neverwinter online!

    Ha you can kiss that dream goodbye. NW has way less staff now since the time of Mod 1-3 release.
  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    ghoulz66 said:

    kitkathd said:

    Forget about rebalancing. Release them as they were and add in a lesser Genies gift as a common reward and a Genies gift as a rare reward along with some classic artifacts. I don't want day 1 dungeons reintroduced as new content reworked. I'm sick of recycled content, its the reason I stopped playing this game. Release them as is with original level limitations and start working on bringing us a legit real underdark dungeon if you have some "spare time." The new module is a complete joke without a single dungeon. How could you even justify it. Did you even look at the other companies running the Rage of Demons storyline? Do you not see how embarassing your title release is compared to theirs? The other game literally looks like the neverwinter 3 we deserved out of neverwinter online!

    Ha you can kiss that dream goodbye. NW has way less staff now since the time of Mod 1-3 release.
    QFT.

    also, I doubt they'll even fill up recent vacancies... ...but I'm a sarcastic guy. Maybe they'll find they'll have to.

    However, the only talent left seems to be in the designs & animations department. Game mechanics has gone downhill at an amazing speed, IMHO...
  • bitt3rnightmar3bitt3rnightmar3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 788 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    Just sitting here... thinking about all the dungeons I can't do makes me wish I didn't curse at the elder brain or rush through that oculous the inflamed. I would have gladly died more times to the second boss in Mad Dragon- back when I was a newb.. or not ran screaming from Mizreal Everdark.. because Imps are bad for you! How I wish I could enter Icespire's Frozen Heart again and laugh everytime I saw the name "Gut Cruncher". Karrundax- Your first boss was almost harder to beat than the dragon at the end-- remember in the beginning Pyrephenia was no joke! Serious bane of all PUG groups. Oh don't even get me started on CN. All these things.. it's been more than a year. I wasn't clear that they'd be gone in mod6. I thought it must have been a joke on preview server. I was sorely mistaken. I'd run PK forever- even though it began to get boring after the 300th or so time. I miss Idris and all the Zombies and wights. I can still remember my very first Craigmire Crypts. xD for some reason the tank couldn't keep threat off my healer. Oh joy of pugs.

    I'm hoping-- one day-- I'll get to see these things again. These are things that kept me logging in. These Heroic Encounters are not memorable. They are all the same everywhere. Nothing changes. Same thing 5+ times a day. Nothing compares to the artistry and level of detail of these dungeons. Most of the people I started playing with are gone. Even more gone in the past year. I swear to you- once I get done with this underdark campaign I'm not touching another demonic HE. I don't care how much rAD you pay me. These things are boring as hell. The skirmishes are basically instanced Heroic encounters and a DPS race to the finish just like every other heroic encounter.

    Maybe I missed something in the lore- but I don't even get why Demons are in so many places? I did the salvatore quest- Some Dwarfs wanted a magic chair and one was angst vampire like a shorter/dwarfier Edward from Twilight. When do I get to fight this guy responsible for making all these demons invade the plane? I'd really like to give him a piece of my mind more than I wanted to for Valindra killing Wilfred and making him into a Zombie! I'd like some kind of challenge to 'take down' the baddie more than 'oh look demons! qer qer qer x infinity' Is it Demogorgon? No. He's just some rando demon spawn bs that's here because 'Some guy' made him come through the rift right? At least in Mod 5 I got that the cultists were crazy people summoning Tiamat. I understood that from the storyline-- but this? Why exactly am I trusting this mindflayer dude? I am not immersed in the story. At ALL.
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  • deathbeezdeathbeez Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 789 Arc User
    xgrandz02 said:


    Let the Devs focus on bringing "New & better stuff", instead of old things.

    And fixing bugs, like the ones I've proven in the bugs forum.
    Class balancing would be nice, but that's not gonna happen till 9 I"m sure.

  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    It's been said before. Dungeons are coming back, but details won't start being released until January. So please be patient.

    Enjoy the holiday events, with lots to look forward to in 2016.
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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    wylonus said:

    Devs, i just need to remind your dev team.
    please bring back original dungeon seals, even through they need update version of rewards and tradings i am still stuck with 17 drake seals, just short of 20 needed for a bag of diamonds, they are nowhere able to spend.

    You can round that off by trading IWD bounty items for drake seals. Only way I know to get them.

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  • tantrumusmaximustantrumusmaximus Member Posts: 215 Arc User
    There is one aspect about the missing dungeons not really discussed much.... What drops in them? Most people want modern drops, not drops that are out of date with current content. I think that is a lot to do with this... perhaps new gear sets? Can we hope? Options?
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    wylonus said:

    Devs, i just need to remind your dev team.
    please bring back original dungeon seals, even through they need update version of rewards and tradings i am still stuck with 17 drake seals, just short of 20 needed for a bag of diamonds, they are nowhere able to spend.

    You can round that off by trading IWD bounty items for drake seals. Only way I know to get them.

    I actually got a Drake Seal yesterday from a bag from a fishing hole.
    Ohhh, yeahhh. I forgot about those. The fishing bags can drop drake and unicorn (unicorn still drops from SCA though, so they're always available).
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
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