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Is This What Cryptic Thought Would Be Fun New Content?

kurtb88kurtb88 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 597 Arc User
edited November 2015 in Player Feedback (PC)
Example 1

The New Elemental Weapons

Element of Water:

1. Get the new Mod8 quest (from an old NPC in PE)
2. Go to Drowned Shore (An old Zone with nothing new added)
3. Fight the crab encounter 100 times (an old simple encounter no one thought they would ever have to do again)
4. The crab encounter spawns every ten minutes: 100 x 10 minutes = 1000 minutes = 16.7 hours wait time

Summary of new content:

You are FORCED to wait in Drowned Shore near the Crab spawn area for a total of SIXTEEN mind-numbing hours
in order to complete the quest to obtain the weapon.

That's example one. There are three more EXACTLY like it for each of the other three elemental types.

Post edited by kurtb88 on
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Comments

  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,349 Arc User
    Actually it takes longer than that. It spawns 10 minutes from the time of its death, which is why everyone is posting time-of-death in zone chat (e.g. 3d24 means the crab in instance #3 died at 24 minutes past the hour, and [email protected] means it will next respawn at 34 minutes past the hour). Factor in the time to kill the crab (1-3 minutes), and you're looking at something like 20 hours.

    If you're very lucky (as I was), you can get into a group that has two instances synchronized such that you can repeatedly jump back and forth. This will get you twelve motes an hour instead of five or so.

    Perhaps Module 8: Underdark (where we don't actually adventure in the Underdark) should have been called something else.

    Module 8: Who has the Old Bay?
    Module 8: Drat, I left my umbrella in the car
    Module 8: Is there a catch limit?
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
    Playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
  • kurtb88kurtb88 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 597 Arc User
    How much development time and effort went into making this new content? Seems like it would take about 30 minutes to create. Fantasy MMO's based upon D&D are supposed to be about new and exciting, dangerous adventures into the unknown. Nothing about this is exciting, dangerous, new, or unknown.

    How hard would it have been to create a small story arc behind each elemental weapon quest that leads to a lair filled with monsters, and ends with a boss and a loot crate? You could have easily created a new watery grotto somewhere in Drowned Shore that contains monsters and a boss fight, and some chance to acquire the weapon in the chest, or some item the NPC needs to create the weapon.

    It's pretty sad.

  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    Phew!

    I'm glad I'm looking for the SH set more than for the Undy weapons...
    I killed enough crab for me and few generations ahead.
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,994 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Well, i'm looking again at
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1207029/developer-blog-quests-by-r-a-salvatore
    and i'm wondering, why they didn't come up with more of such quests with rewards like the weapons in question...
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • tassedethe13tassedethe13 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    hustin1 said:


    Perhaps Module 8: Underdark (where we don't actually adventure in the Underdark) should have been called something else

    You made me smile thanks ;)
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,349 Arc User
    kurtb88 said:

    How much development time and effort went into making this new content? Seems like it would take about 30 minutes to create. Fantasy MMO's based upon D&D are supposed to be about new and exciting, dangerous adventures into the unknown. Nothing about this is exciting, dangerous, new, or unknown.

    How hard would it have been to create a small story arc behind each elemental weapon quest that leads to a lair filled with monsters, and ends with a boss and a loot crate? You could have easily created a new watery grotto somewhere in Drowned Shore that contains monsters and a boss fight, and some chance to acquire the weapon in the chest, or some item the NPC needs to create the weapon.

    It's pretty sad.

    Your first point has a lot to do with why I have major issues with how they cut down the remaining three dungeons, as well as reducing the normal ones to three-man content. At least before, there were side areas that you could explore if you wanted to, though they weren't required. Now it's just a one-dimensional run to the end chest. Worse, in the three-man versions, party roles are even less important than they were in mod 5: now players just run through everything, pulling everything to the next boss (or to the next door they need to open) and kill everything en masse. There's nothing dungeon-like about them anymore.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
    Playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
  • strous1strous1 Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    kurtb88 said:

    Example 1

    The New Elemental Weapons

    Element of Water:

    1. Get the new Mod8 quest (from an old NPC in PE)
    2. Go to Drowned Shore (An old Zone with nothing new added)
    3. Fight the crab encounter 100 times (an old simple encounter no one thought they would ever have to do again)
    4. The crab encounter spawns every ten minutes: 100 x 10 minutes = 1000 minutes = 16.7 hours wait time

    Summary of new content:

    You are FORCED to wait in Drowned Shore near the Crab spawn area for a total of SIXTEEN mind-numbing hours
    in order to complete the quest to obtain the weapon.

    That's example one. There are three more EXACTLY like it for each of the other three elemental types.

    Reading this post and all other posts about the same related things, the mind-numbing repetition is they have inadvertently made the game for bots. Think about it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    PnP Red Box DM & Player (74 - ?). NWN + SoU + HotU (4-03),
    NWN Diamond Edition, Neverwinter Nights Complete (NWN + NWN2).
  • subnoctesubnocte Member Posts: 341 Arc User
    People said foundry quests were dull because some people just took existing maps and stuck a few mobs in.

    So Cryptic did the same.
  • cdnbisoncdnbison Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    You're talking about acquiring a weapon and off-hand for the price of *effort* and *time*. At comparable item levels, it's pretty much BiS (argue about which set ability amongst yourselves).

    So, no, 16-17 hours isn't too bad, all things considered. Dull? Sure, I'll give you that. You could always get a group and go farm other heroics in the zone, too, though. Or do other stuff during the day. The crabs will still be there at the end.

    The point being, if you want what will be a BiS item, how do you propose players acquire it otherwise? Difficulty - must be able to be completed by a solo player.

    As a counter, the Twisted set requires 20 Twisted Ichor (1-2 from *epic* Demogorgon). That fight comes up hourly. Which means 10 hours of play time for the weapon. Then the same for the off-hand. And that assumes gold-level finishes each and every time. If they are all silver level, you only get one from the chest, bumping it to a total of 40 hours.

    So, yes, it's repetitive. I'd prefer to see a bit of relaxation on the zone requirements (or be able to get them from dungeon bosses), but to say it takes too long is a bit ludicrous.
  • pauliusxaspauliusxas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 66 Arc User
    Hmm, in mine opinion this module is pretty fun. Those new dung and skirmish mechanics is awesome, yes you need to sit and waist a bit of time , but that time won't be spent for nothing. You will get insane artifact or insane rings. If you don't like it just go eToS, eLoL and try to get something good from there ... Devs are doing great job with all these changes like markets, ad and daily quest remove. I just can say to devs BRAVO. And btw, I like this cooperating in zone chats and pt invites, I even got new PvP mates for premade matches.
  • nimandiirnimandiir Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 90 Arc User
    I'm done expecting anything from them, it's obvious something is wrong internally. I'm just going to enjoy what I enjoy about the game and ignore the rest...

    Ironically the dailies from the original campaigns are what I enjoy most... I find that hilarious :p
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,349 Arc User
    nimandiir said:

    I'm done expecting anything from them, it's obvious something is wrong internally. I'm just going to enjoy what I enjoy about the game and ignore the rest...

    Ironically the dailies from the original campaigns are what I enjoy most... I find that hilarious :p

    Since mod 7 I've already replayed my Foundry a couple of times, even though I know where everything is (since I created it). If I didn't have to constantly mind the stronghold I'd take a couple of weeks away from the game and work on another.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
    Playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
  • gphxgphxgphxgphx Member Posts: 184 Arc User
    My impression was Dungeons and Dragons based games were about Dungeons and Dragons.

    The model I understood was people do a dungeon to get stuff. The stuff they get allows them to do a harder dungeon to get more stuff. Which allows them to do a harder dungeon to get more stuff... and so on. Progression.

    Once in a while they may use all the stuff they got to kill a world dragon for kicks.

    In this game they've been removing the dungeons and as of this mod getting a weapon consists of farming mobs. The motivation of 'stuff to do' has been entirely replaced with plain old 'getting stuff'. Then when you do get it, there's nothing to do with it.

    And we don't kill a world dragon when we want to for fun, we're supposed to kill hundreds and hundreds of them over and over again for two mods in a row to the point where it no longer bears any resemblance to fun at all.

    The game seems to be going from a world rich in multifaceted D&D content like Wow to a typical Asian produced, quest based, grinder where all you do is grind endless mobs with different skins for eternity.

    Is this a direction others favor?

    Am I missing something?

    What have I overlooked beyond farming heroics and skirmishes?

    Because after 2 hours of beautiful quests all I see left is farm, farm, farm.

    The joy of a mod can't be dead after just 2 hours. It just can't.



  • revan06100revan06100 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    YES +1, BRING THE F....K DUNGEONS BACK, we've been saying that for month ! Now Make this as your priority, or you will keep loosing players and i will stop getting zen ! You admin can check my banks trasactions with you, you'll notice that i've spendt a lot of money... If you keep disappoint players, you'll end up with NO PLAYERS !
  • gphxgphxgphxgphx Member Posts: 184 Arc User
    If I didn't miss anything I'm in a lot of trouble because my first thought when I finished the quest line and looked around for what to do next was 'Uh oh, I finished the game'.
  • ldedric1ldedric1 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    After a couple months away from Neverwinter I logged in yesterday to have a look and see what underdark had to offer. I Ran the Salvadore intro quest, Pwent sounding like a high pitched halfling is insulting. The single line quest with no addons or side quests was a letdown. I really hoped their was going to me more to it.

    I checked out some of the new gear and got bored flipping through pages and pages of gear that still has no way comparison comparing them from each other.

    I ran a couple HE's and talked to some people in party and learned I would have do to these and a couple others 100's of times to get what you needed. Reward based game play big props, however making me repeat the exact same content 100's of times to get it. Nope not gonna do it. If you would have added a lot more variety I would have done it.

    What would you rather do?

    Do the exact same HE 100's of times?

    or

    Complete this HE to get this key for a chest in this skirmish to unlock a random new mini dungeon where the Boss drops the required component 25% of the time.


    I will say now with 100% conviction, I will not return until I have something to do!

    I do "NOT" want to grind yet another cookie cutter game for hours and hours while being forced to play one of 3 dungeons or run in circles doing the exact same HE's over and over.

    I do NOT want professions that simply don't make sense, and have little actual value. You can spend way too many hours making a couple potions that do not do much more than the in game bought ones.

    I do NOT want yet another item/collection based game designed around grinding. The reason I came to neverwinter is because I had OPTIONS with my gear.

    I do NOT want to be steamrolled into playing just 1 character for hours, days or weeks because I simply don't have the energy to do the exact same quest and HE's 100's of times that I just completed on another character.

    I do NOT want to fight tooth and nail and divide my time from enjoying the game for a 3rd type of over-inflated currency (AD) in order to even have any hopes of advancing my character.

    Until some of these (and other) issues that I feel take presidence over any and all new content are dealt with I will not return to neverwinter as a player.

    Thankfully their are a wide variety of other games out there that I am currently enjoying.

    See you all next month for my monthly check in.
  • gphxgphxgphxgphx Member Posts: 184 Arc User
    Exactly my thoughts. When the quest line was finished all that remained was 'Kill HAMSTER 100 times' and I'm not going to do that. People are getting really exhausted waiting for actual content to come back.
  • ldedric1ldedric1 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    That's why I left.
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,111 Arc User
    I must say this last mod is sucking my will to keep going . . . . .
  • skalt112skalt112 Member Posts: 1,089 Arc User
    No , they could not possibly have thought that. This is fulfilling a contract with the least amount of effort and resources possible. That is all this is.
  • deusazzadeusazza Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 63 Arc User
    amen! I can easily drop 8hours playing this game everyday; but since module 5, there's no more reason to do that. the reward to play this game isn't worth my time anymore. looking for another game to play now.
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Here's a long response from the Devs on the mote issue. They're aware of the problem, and are going to make an effort to adjust the method for obtaining those Elemental Weapons.
    asterdahl said:

    Hey everyone, I just wanted to take a brief moment to discuss the nature of these quests as it's become quite a hot topic.

    As you may know, there are currently 6 sets of artifact weapons that start at item level 125. Other than elemental weapons, there are also stronghold and twisted weapons. The barrier to entry to obtain either of those weapons is higher, one requiring an active guild with stronghold investment, the other requiring completion of Epic Demogorgon, which is a fairly difficult fight. In both cases however, progress towards earning those weapons is measurable and comparatively short if the barriers to entry can be overcome. Additionally, their set bonuses are quite strong, with a focus on increasing performance across the board.

    Elemental weapons were designed as an alternative, with a low barrier to entry, more situational set bonuses that you could choose based on your play style, but would require a significant time investment. These weapons were not meant to be earned in a day, or even a week. That is why their base power, set bonuses aside, is comparable to those weapons that require a significantly higher barrier to entry.

    That being said, we are aware of the fact that due to the low drop rates in lower ranked heroic encounters, coupled with the 100% drop rate in epic heroic encounters, as well as the frequency with which encounters of varying ranks appear, and the amount of time it takes to clear them—that there is a feeling that only running the epic heroic encounters is worthwhile. It was never the intent to create a quest that read "Completed 'Cornered by Crabs' 0/100," but we know for a lot of you, that's what "Weapons of Water" has become.

    We're also aware that due to the facts listed above, compounded with the relative popularity of certain weapons vs. others, as well as the difference in difficulty from zone to zone, that some of these weapons feel significantly more difficult to obtain.

    We are currently exploring options to improve the experience in the following ways:

    1. Make it feel more rewarding to run lower rank heroic encounters.
    2. Bring the time investment closer together from weapon to weapon.
    We will be tackling this through the tweaking of drop rates as well as the rate at which certain heroic encounters spawn. We'll also be keeping an eye on the popularity of the elemental weapons and making adjustments accordingly. Rest assured there are no plans to nerf any of the weapons, however, some weapons may receive a bump depending on popularity and balance.

    Also, I know some of you have been asking about the burning weapons and the frequency with which the AP bonus occurs, and I'd like to clarify and apologize for the typo in that tooltip. The chance of receiving the AP bonus is 100%, however, this effect can only occur once every 30 seconds. The tooltip will be updated to be more accurate in the future.

    As a final note, for those currently working on the weapons—although we will be making changes to improve the experience, we will not be significantly reducing the amount of time required to earn these weapons such that current work on them feels wasted. These quests are meant to be a long term investment and that will not change with upcoming adjustments.

    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
  • ldedric1ldedric1 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    Just to be absolutely clear on this.

    The issue every player is having with the recent addons is "NO CONTENT"

    From what we see as the player base is that you have cookie cutted different areas and just changed the name and hue on some of mobs. Foundry authors have done a far far better job at adding content than any and all expansions combined.

    That bars repeating.

    Foundry authors have done a far far better job at adding content than any and all expansions combined.

    We your player base want content, not a cookie cutter game with days, weeks, and months of repeating the exact same cookie cutter encounter.

    How much more clear can we be?
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,163 Arc User
    Simple solution: minor HEs always drop 1 mote. Medium HEs always drop 2. Major ones always drop 5. Daily maximum is 10.
    Duh.
  • tantrumusmaximustantrumusmaximus Member Posts: 215 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    hustin1 said:

    Perhaps Module 8: Underdark (where we don't actually adventure in the Underdark) should have been called something else

    -----------------
    Damn that was good and spot ON!
  • aratecharatech Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User
    Try playing it as a CW with the side bonus of the joy and hope that can only come from finding out that the author that got you into high fantasy (and created your passion for writing) is penning the latest.

    Only to discover it's less R.A. Salvatore's latest story as opposed to his cliff notes and a single brainstorming session, and all the new, fantastic armor sets are basically poison pills. (i.e. yeah, it'll advance my item level and my HP, but it'll also cost me about 2.6K critical strike and at least 1.5K AP compared to my elven stuff. And for what? Recovery? A stat that for 95% of CW builds is completely irrelevant? )
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