SM can spam infinite crescendo and be immoratl thanks to steel defense, not mentioned he has better base damage than IV who need mark to compete with SM... but yeah, @clonkyo 1, nerf mark dmg. BiS SWs killing me faster than i can get them down or even get close to them... 2 HRs can perma root without any window for skill usage. Thats shoud be changed. I can fight against one rooter but 2 or more its nonsense. And im talking from GF/OP perspective. OP is another history... This game need better servers badly, and europenian servers.
SM can spam infinite crescendo and be immoratl thanks to steel defense, not mentioned he has better base damage than IV who need mark to compete with SM... but yeah, @clonkyo 1, nerf mark dmg. BiS SWs killing me faster than i can get them down... 2 HRs can perma root without any window for skill usage. Thats shoud be changed. I can fight against one rooter but 2 or more its nonsense.
what does that mean? i cant fight 2 dc, i cant fight 2 trs, i cant fight 2 paladins, i cant fight 2 gwfs, i cant fight 2 gfs i dont get the point
what does that mean? i cant fight 2 dc, i cant fight 2 trs, i cant fight 2 paladins, i cant fight 2 gwfs, i cant fight 2 gfs i dont get the point
Yeah you will get the point when HR troll camp root+disruptive you till death. You can sit and watch. I fight 2DC, 2TR, 2OP, 2GWF, 2GF = can use my atwills, encounters, dailies. Oh, doubt you never being forced fighting few pallys in SH pvp, gg, dom. And... there is still room for powers usage (even both use OH+aura of truth stun)
GWF is easy, in open terrain even CW can kill him quickly
We have 3 OP things in my opinion first- stamina/ap drain glyphs second- overpowered lags and overpowered trol- comps like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2MIzwvrHvI
Enjoy SH pvp against 6 op + 3 dc, (Special thanks for guild " The Holy Cruseaders" for making super trol comp, GG).
ROFL. You're welcome. I'm just gonna put it out there - They (or you) lost to a PVE oriented guild with half the tenacity and half their gear. This is when skill, brain and tactics come out to play. "OMFGZ KILL ALL TRS NUBZ". Yeah, no.
How is it not tactics to put a group of unkillable people to camp a depot? An immortal BIS Faithful DC camping a node in Dom is ok and this is not? A tankadin camping mid in Dom is obviously super wrong by your logic, right? Broken broken classes, yada yada, QQ's. It's called tactics, get over it.
Yep, cause you've never ever killed or seen a HAMSTER geared Paladin getting wrecked. I mean, since they're OP, they're automatically skilled and can survive everything, right? lmao. I'd offer you a tissue to wipe the tears but meh, you seem fine on that department.
Not gonna bother commenting too much cus we all know GWF is nowhere near the top of the list (and this is clear with the past votes from the guys on the forum) but I would definitely welcome GWF's power to be revised as a lot of them are USELESS in both PvE and PvP, period
I have seen a few useless GWF but I have also seen GWF at 2.5 IL with no weapon or armor chants easily topping the damage parses by a good 50% or more and never facing any risk of death in PVE. This is in 3.5 IL groups and although the greatest source of these GWF's damage tends to be lostmauth they would still be well above the others even if it were not utilized by them (and was still by the other strikers). I have two GWF and I understand the issues they face at certain levels and IL but I also notice how at other points they become unmatched (at least in terms damage) to a degree that they could afk half the time and still contribute more than other strikers. It is different in PvP where it can be much harder for the GWF (especially at lower levels/ILs) but the same points are still obtainable. I like diversity choices in class trees but the GWF deviates so far in terms of damage and is never enough of a tank to make the choices far less than what they should be.
[. . .] An immortal BIS Faithful DC camping a node in Dom is ok [. . .]
No is not. So, dont know from where you got this idea.
Huh, okay then let's play according to this logic. DC is OP, Pallys are OP, TR is OP, perma root Trapper HR is OP, one-shot GF's are OP, CW burst damage and perma dodge is OP, everything's terribly wrong and said classes and paragons are so broken it's not okay to play with any of those. That leaves us with GWF's and SW's, let's all play ones because they're totally bleh in PVP and we'll all get along.
Simple, with the situation at hand, you play by the rules. The rules are simple - you either lose or you win, all measures are completely Kosher as long as they're not bugs or system breaches. Using a CLASS is not abuse, using a wheel in a corner to get all buffs IS abuse. You may whine and cry for changes (and some are justified), but nobody has to play by ANY rules, any combination (rofl, 'troll' in your words) is fair game unless a bug occurs as a result (KV/DP for example).
So letting my DC camp a node will make me look bad? Let the hate tells flow, you don't PVP with a toothbrush. If you can't kill it, move on. (aka group in that video was utterly ridiculous, spending 15 minutes in a lost fight for no reason, as most people do, hence why we won.)
I have seen a few useless GWF but I have also seen GWF at 2.5 IL with no weapon or armor chants easily topping the damage parses by a good 50% or more and never facing any risk of death in PVE.
Name 2 of them. I gonna inv them and check it out. I ilke urban legends...
Lol. "tactics". Two gentlemen decide to duel. One of the two figures out he can easily win if he just brings a gun to the duel and shoot the sword-armed rival in the head. Tactic! But what if the other one figured out that hiding 300 meters away with a sniper rifle would be even smarter. Super tactic! And if the other one goes to the duel with an armored tank? Ultra TACTIC!
NWO tactic: use the most broken tool available to win over your opponent.
Pvp is very unbalnced and is worse than any other time I can remember. Paladins that take so many people to kill them is unbalanced enough. Perma trs too get overlooked and can unbalance a game like paladins. And recnetly HR trapper and roots that can hold you 99% of the time and not only that some have now worked out a way to not take dmg by spamming fox shift with hardly anycool down. The major issue with pvp for me though is making sides equal, I studied 10 matches and every match was completely one sided ( is this fixed?) so i looked at the player item level and gear and noticed that every match the poorly geared where on one side and the near fully geard on the other with 1 or 2 exceptions this to me can't be random it has to be done on purpose for such a high percentage of games to be this way and needs addressing as no wonder ques are so long imagine your new to neverwinter and enter pvp 1st game you'd think never again and many do when it could be so great if balanced corectly and it's not a difficult thing to do. Come on neverwinter don't make me apply for manager at the labs lol I'm a son of a bleeep and I drink spit in my coffee it adds flavor.
To be honest I don't even look at classes anymore, I look at the players on the other side. Usually if I see:
- Haters - Absolute - Black Lotus
On the other side premades or not in GG/Dom, and you don't have comparably skilled/geared players on your side or names you recognize (e.g. P.a.o.k, Minimi, others) you are probably going to have a pretty hard game...Class almost doesn't matter...E.g. you'd see Sophi sporting a SW and well just walk all over most pugs.
Oh btw I really hate it when people accuse you of being in a premade...When its just dumb luck that higher IL or more skilled players or both ended up on one side.
Strongholds has been interesting...You could be totally winning one minute, then half the other team drops out, and in comes skilled/equipped players, and all the sudden you find yourself losing. Yeah seen the annoying DC/OP going on in SH, I don't know why people complain about GWFs when its almost impossible to get BiS DCs/OPs off nodes without 5-6 people
Casamir 3K IL WK Sabo TR Trying to suck less @ pvp near you
0
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited September 2015
it can happen that strong players que as pug an play on one side, but majority of all guildmembers in one team, that is premade. Luckily i see a lot for example absolute players que as solo, but premades from cross guilds are hard to defeat still. There is little secret about pvp guilds. If they talk each other that say they are "unhappy" with pvp, when they say to pug or on the forum, they say hey are "happy". There is still hope
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
1 - its not only ibs, all the damage multiplier the class have allow to hit with anything like it was a fatality. sure strike damage is out of control, lostmauth procs are too, indomitable strenght hits harder than shocking execution.
2 - the class movement speed is the higher in game and probably makes people rage more than a hiding tr. combination of crazy damage and higher attack speed make lifesteal procs once every 3 strike (which is more or less 1 sec ) potentially back to full HP.
3 - have you not seen yet 3 people attacking a GWF laughing going back to full everytime? those people are not pugs.... not really, it must appear a tr with HAMSTER shocking to have a chance to kill him.
4 - so really no, the class is not in a bad shape. it overperforms and the op is right.
5 - nothing comparable to paladins but still something that needs to be fixed.
1 - But that is due IV and its mechanics. Want to remove damage from GWF class?? Easy: remove the damage which class gets from Marks, move "Powerful Challenge" up to T4 and buff it up to 100% damage vs Marked targets (also, move "Disciple of war" from T2 into T4 and, maybe, buff it a little) and these simple moves will drop the damage from Destroyer GWF around -50% on its damage buffs .
Now, from here: Give the class a really viable way to land encounters. Make all "side effects" being not deflectable (this is, no more 0.1secs stuns from FLS or 0.1 slows from NSF, in example), etc. Rework useless moves (i wanted to say "reaping strike i am looking at you!!!", but, in fact, a lot of GWF's powers are really out dated) and turn them into something reliable. Buff a lot of encounter's damage (punishing charge, in example) and then, you will have a really balanced class (is really sad that GF-class with almost half power than "us", GWFs, has more base damage with AoD than a GWF with IBS, in example.)
I will avoid "Lostmauth" subject (but i agree that it needs a nerf) because its an "aviable for everyone" set and i think that those subjects ("accessories aviable for everyone") are other kind of debate.
Also, do not you dare to compare Indomitable Strenght with S.E. for a simple reason: S.E. can not be deflected while I.S. can be. Also, to get those numbers, a GWF needs to stack (and mark) his/her target while S.E. is from "clean hit"
2 - Hope you said that with sprint being "our" both offensive AND defensive mechanic due the lack of gap closers, besides TR (will not count Punishing Charge due its lack of damage) and due the lack of dodges and stamina regenerators outside from Battle Fury (XDDDDD) and Restoring Strike in mind... Otherwise, you are making a BS statement.
3 - I saw too a GWF being one rotated by some CWs (not so often, i must admit) or DoTed to death by SWs (not counting Avalanche, ofc, which needs a fix too) . But that situation will dissapear almost for sure with my suggestion on 1.
4 - The class is in a really bad shape. It only outperforms thanks to "BiS" gear (but this is the lesser issue here), 2 Trans. enchants and 1 set. Whoever thinking otherwise is just liying to him/her self because if you remove those 2 enchants and the set, the class will lost a lot of damage and survivality yet i am not watching players asking for a nerf on that set or those enchants due, basically, a vast majority wear them too (double standars?? where???) . And you can ask to any GWF out there (Mjolnir, Pando, Tyrion, Saber, myself, etc) to remove those enchants and set from our gear and we can rec what will happend on that fight (or run). n_n .
We can talk here about "20% LS + Endless consumption" combo which CAN be another issue (ofc) but i dont think that it is as game breaking as the first combo is (again, this is under my PoV) .
5 - that nothing can be compared with OPs, we agree. That some things need a fix, we agree too, the problem here is that "your fixes" are "nerfs" while "my fixes" are just that "fixes".
is not hard to build stacks with feytouched or any enchant with dot.
Not gonna bother commenting too much cus we all know GWF is nowhere near the top of the list (and this is clear with the past votes from the guys on the forum) but I would definitely welcome GWF's power to be revised as a lot of them are USELESS in both PvE and PvP, period
I have seen a few useless GWF but I have also seen GWF at 2.5 IL with no weapon or armor chants easily topping the damage parses by a good 50% or more and never facing any risk of death in PVE. This is in 3.5 IL groups and although the greatest source of these GWF's damage tends to be lostmauth they would still be well above the others even if it were not utilized by them (and was still by the other strikers).
The hyperbole disguised as a feedback is the great evil of this forum
lol. But if it is a cheap tool all can get, they want it fixed ASAP.
Well yeah, but at least i wouldn't call it tactic XD I'd say "you guys have the cool PvP toys, so us PvE guild just grabbed the one overpowered weapon at hand (geared paladins stacked in one team) to beat you". Which is not strategy, rather fighting broken stuff with another broken thing. If next time the PvP guild brings 6 geared paladins, they can sit on the nodes and stare at each others forever. But that's not a tactic.
Btw. GWF is fine. Seriously, you can counter them. Each class can counter them at same iLvL. It's a class with clear weaknesses and is pretty much the easiest class to kite around.
The only class that i see currently overperforming, is PvP paladin, at higher iLvLs. As rayrdan said, an "immortal" PvP OP is way harder to kill than an "immortal" PvP DC.
- T.Fey vs other weapon enchants - Still, less than in the past, but T.Neg vs other armor enchants - eLoL set - PvP OP
these are imho basically the most critical sources of imbalance in PvP. Items can be fixed either buffing the other enchants/ sets to "match" the current overperforming ones, or toning down the overperforming items/ effects. OP must be balanced a bit but without breaking the class for PvE.
@mamalion: you "eat" the GWF damage at start while bursting him, just bunnyhop to avoid eating his full SS/ rotation (aka, do not facetank), save your dodges/ stamina/ exc... for when he goes unstoppable and then kite unstoppable. Only Plaguefire users can build all stacks while being consistently kited due to the 3xstacks per hit. Enchants with 2xstacks per hit struggle vs good players kiting the GWF during unstoppable. Only real thing hard to dodge is a hidden dagger at full stacks. Other than that, GWF stuff is the easiest to kite, and kiting them is the key to counter the monster damage and lifesteal of a fully stacked GWF.
Comments
This game need better servers badly, and europenian servers.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
Simple, with the situation at hand, you play by the rules. The rules are simple - you either lose or you win, all measures are completely Kosher as long as they're not bugs or system breaches. Using a CLASS is not abuse, using a wheel in a corner to get all buffs IS abuse. You may whine and cry for changes (and some are justified), but nobody has to play by ANY rules, any combination (rofl, 'troll' in your words) is fair game unless a bug occurs as a result (KV/DP for example).
So letting my DC camp a node will make me look bad? Let the hate tells flow, you don't PVP with a toothbrush. If you can't kill it, move on. (aka group in that video was utterly ridiculous, spending 15 minutes in a lost fight for no reason, as most people do, hence why we won.)
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
I ilke urban legends...
"tactics".
Two gentlemen decide to duel. One of the two figures out he can easily win if he just brings a gun to the duel and shoot the sword-armed rival in the head. Tactic!
But what if the other one figured out that hiding 300 meters away with a sniper rifle would be even smarter. Super tactic!
And if the other one goes to the duel with an armored tank? Ultra TACTIC!
NWO tactic: use the most broken tool available to win over your opponent.
- Haters
- Absolute
- Black Lotus
On the other side premades or not in GG/Dom, and you don't have comparably skilled/geared players on your side or names you recognize (e.g. P.a.o.k, Minimi, others) you are probably going to have a pretty hard game...Class almost doesn't matter...E.g. you'd see Sophi sporting a SW and well just walk all over most pugs.
Oh btw I really hate it when people accuse you of being in a premade...When its just dumb luck that higher IL or more skilled players or both ended up on one side.
Strongholds has been interesting...You could be totally winning one minute, then half the other team drops out, and in comes skilled/equipped players, and all the sudden you find yourself losing. Yeah seen the annoying DC/OP going on in SH, I don't know why people complain about GWFs when its almost impossible to get BiS DCs/OPs off nodes without 5-6 people
3K IL WK Sabo TR
Trying to suck less @ pvp near you
I'd say "you guys have the cool PvP toys, so us PvE guild just grabbed the one overpowered weapon at hand (geared paladins stacked in one team) to beat you". Which is not strategy, rather fighting broken stuff with another broken thing. If next time the PvP guild brings 6 geared paladins, they can sit on the nodes and stare at each others forever.
But that's not a tactic.
Btw.
GWF is fine. Seriously, you can counter them. Each class can counter them at same iLvL. It's a class with clear weaknesses and is pretty much the easiest class to kite around.
The only class that i see currently overperforming, is PvP paladin, at higher iLvLs. As rayrdan said, an "immortal" PvP OP is way harder to kill than an "immortal" PvP DC.
- T.Fey vs other weapon enchants
- Still, less than in the past, but T.Neg vs other armor enchants
- eLoL set
- PvP OP
these are imho basically the most critical sources of imbalance in PvP.
Items can be fixed either buffing the other enchants/ sets to "match" the current overperforming ones, or toning down the overperforming items/ effects.
OP must be balanced a bit but without breaking the class for PvE.
@mamalion: you "eat" the GWF damage at start while bursting him, just bunnyhop to avoid eating his full SS/ rotation (aka, do not facetank), save your dodges/ stamina/ exc... for when he goes unstoppable and then kite unstoppable.
Only Plaguefire users can build all stacks while being consistently kited due to the 3xstacks per hit. Enchants with 2xstacks per hit struggle vs good players kiting the GWF during unstoppable.
Only real thing hard to dodge is a hidden dagger at full stacks. Other than that, GWF stuff is the easiest to kite, and kiting them is the key to counter the monster damage and lifesteal of a fully stacked GWF.