LOL that I'm butthurt and all that, or to gearing main and then alts, or about competition etc. I'll totally agree I was wordy. How about this in brief?
You say it's good that it's easy that it is handed to you. I, and others say it isn't.
You feel it is a good thing, that once you have gotten one of your better suited to "PvP action" toons to some threshold, all your other toons now reap the rewards of that. I, and others say it isn't.
You feel it makes it more competitive to have it this way. We say it isn't, (ok, read that ME), contend it is sort of a cheat (I conceed it isn't a cheat since it's WAI). So let's define it as CHEESY.
IMO I feel it is CHEESY, to have the ability to use something that gives you a definitive advantage over a majority of other players classes, minimally subjecting that class to the rigors OTHERS need go through. I find it CHEESY that not only can that be done, but it is bragged about. I find it not unlike (admittedly a game setting analogy) tripping a blind person and putting their cane out of reach, then treating them to "help" finding their cane (as you move it out of reach repeatedly).
You might regret starting this thread. It may encourage the account-wide "anomoly" to be, um, fixed.
Just so there is not any confusion, the account bound status is intentional. In fact, with the release of Module 6 certain equipment such as those pieces purchased with seals of the elements were already account bound, though equipment for other classes was somewhat obscurely buried in the "misc." tab.
As far as the issue of transmutes or dyes changing the bind status without a warning, I can't say that there will be a change to those systems affecting bind status, but we will certainly be looking into the fact that there is no warning message when the bind status is about to change. I would like to apologize for any inconvenience this issue may have caused.
Most players would love to see Artifacts bound (account), but with a minimum level requirement for each upgrade tier (Level 70 required for mythic, so people could not troll low level pvp). An artifact is a collection and large investment item. Having them bound (character) really is part of the large barrier to having more than one main toon. Perhaps most importantly, something such as changing artifacts to Account (bound) would really restore faith/morale and draw and keep players in the game. No doubt.
Can devs please make possible to buy any class Elven gear as account-bound ? This gear is obsolete and it is pity to flush these seals into AD refinement. It is actually "fight the AD inflation" measure.
LOL that I'm butthurt and all that, or to gearing main and then alts, or about competition etc. I'll totally agree I was wordy. How about this in brief?
You say it's good that it's easy that it is handed to you. I, and others say it isn't.
You feel it is a good thing, that once you have gotten one of your better suited to "PvP action" toons to some threshold, all your other toons now reap the rewards of that. I, and others say it isn't.
You feel it makes it more competitive to have it this way. We say it isn't, (ok, read that ME), contend it is sort of a cheat (I conceed it isn't a cheat since it's WAI). So let's define it as CHEESY.
IMO I feel it is CHEESY, to have the ability to use something that gives you a definitive advantage over a majority of other players classes, minimally subjecting that class to the rigors OTHERS need go through. I find it CHEESY that not only can that be done, but it is bragged about. I find it not unlike (admittedly a game setting analogy) tripping a blind person and putting their cane out of reach, then treating them to "help" finding their cane (as you move it out of reach repeatedly).
This is where you and I can't see eye to eye mate. Where is the advantage? I play PVP till I get my main geared... you play PVP till you get your main geared... we are now on even footing. I gear up my alt for PVP, you gear up your alt for PVP... we are now on even footing. We must go through the same paces, the same number of matches, the same hurdles. Now, the only "advantage" is when someone new just hits 70 and Q's up for their first time for SH PVP and has no tenacity or low tenacity gear.. you and I who have "geared up" now have a gear advantage over that guy on our mains and alts, but he keeps Qing and winning sometimes/losing sometimes despite the hardship... Then he gears up, now he can also gear up his alts if he so desires and we are on "even footing".
These crazy analogies you come up with don't even connect with the game man. When you have low gear, whether in PVE or PVP you can only hope that your team mates can help you beat the dungeon or defeat the opposing team. It's that simple. After running enough of the content you are able to gear up and help others get their gear as well. I am fully geared on my main basically now. That said, pugs on my team are probably grateful for having a BIS on their side and the other team probably doesn't like it. However, the very next match that may reverse when my pugs were from the other team last round. In this way BIS players are either hindrances or helpers depending on the luck of the draw.
If a BIS guild happens to Q as 5 or as 10 or as 15 or as a full 20 Group their hope is to fight another full guild Qing as well or at least a matched Q. This doesn't always happen, sometimes they go against a team of pugs. They don't necessarily clap themselves on the back for beating lesser geared pugs, they just collect their winnings and re Q hoping to get a good match the next round. This isn't anything that any other guild can't do though. If you want to Q with a 20 man guild crew then you can as well, there is no barrier to this save what guild you're in and whether they are interested in doing so.
If you have a different suggestion of how we should gear up that is preferable, please feel free to state it, or write your own well thought out forum post. But to make irrelevant analogies and continue to argue a bad argument without substance or an alternative... that's just lazy mate.
As always, thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
When you change gear (transmute, gear, *sometimes* refining/ranking up) - it becomes bound. it has been this way since ALPHA days, it has been this way since alpha of Star trek Online (also Cryptic, same game engine) more than five years ago.
It has always been this way. That it has not been changed or "fixed" lends credence to the presumption it is a technical issue, not a Dev-choice issue. Sure, all technical issues can be fixed/updated/changed - but some at far greater cost than others.
Do you really supposed they (the studio) would spend that kind of money on such a trivial "issue"? They haven't in all these years as of yet, so I wouldn't lend to hope on it.
Firstly, not all of the gear becomes bound upon "changing it", only certain pieces so either they overlooked those pieces and it needs to be fixed, or they need to make the whole set account abound. Secondarily, I don't presume to know what "the studio" would spend time or "money" on. I make suggestions, no matter how "trivial" they may seem to nay sayers.
Whether you support my request or think it is rubbish is completely up to you, but I'd not make assumptions as to what the devs will or may consider based off of your limited perspective or knowledge base.
Thanks for your time.
1) I did't say all gear and I never meant for you or anyone to presume I meant all gear. I should have been more clear about that 2) I never said I don't support your idea. It's a good idea. But I get it: we tend to inject negative slant on comments we read even if there is none. But no worries.
I was simply expressing that I don't think it will happen / get fixed; based on my long time experience playing Cryptic games and being so familiar with the game engine. Though as was officially stated: the lack of a warning is bad form and hopefully they will at least address that.
Can devs please make possible to buy any class Elven gear as account-bound ? This gear is obsolete and it is pity to flush these seals into AD refinement. It is actually "fight the AD inflation" measure.
Hear, hear. It sure would make life easier if I could spend extra Protector's seals on gear for my alts.
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My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
When you change gear (transmute, gear, *sometimes* refining/ranking up) - it becomes bound. it has been this way since ALPHA days, it has been this way since alpha of Star trek Online (also Cryptic, same game engine) more than five years ago.
It has always been this way. That it has not been changed or "fixed" lends credence to the presumption it is a technical issue, not a Dev-choice issue. Sure, all technical issues can be fixed/updated/changed - but some at far greater cost than others.
Do you really supposed they (the studio) would spend that kind of money on such a trivial "issue"? They haven't in all these years as of yet, so I wouldn't lend to hope on it.
Firstly, not all of the gear becomes bound upon "changing it", only certain pieces so either they overlooked those pieces and it needs to be fixed, or they need to make the whole set account abound. Secondarily, I don't presume to know what "the studio" would spend time or "money" on. I make suggestions, no matter how "trivial" they may seem to nay sayers.
Whether you support my request or think it is rubbish is completely up to you, but I'd not make assumptions as to what the devs will or may consider based off of your limited perspective or knowledge base.
Thanks for your time.
1) I did't say all gear and I never meant for you or anyone to presume I meant all gear. I should have been more clear about that 2) I never said I don't support your idea. It's a good idea. But I get it: we tend to inject negative slant on comments we read even if there is none. But no worries.
I was simply expressing that I don't think it will happen / get fixed; based on my long time experience playing Cryptic games and being so familiar with the game engine. Though as was officially stated: the lack of a warning is bad form and hopefully they will at least address that.
Allow me also to clarify, I meant that even in a single set, such as the Lionmane PVP set, only certain pieces are getting bound when dyed or transmuted. Thus this leads one to wonder if none of it should get bound upon changing it, or if all of it should be bound. That is what I was referring to.
I have played this game since beta and have been quite an avid transmuter/dye changer so I'm quite familiar with the bonding technique employed on gear. However this gear set has some newer properties and unique account wide abilities which is why I wanted to post here and see if I could get an answer or perhaps make a suggestion that would be listened to.
Thanks for your time
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
FYI isn't twinking about taking lower level toons into PVP using enchantments etc that would normally not be available to that toon during course of standard play? (i.e. gearing a level 30 with level 12 enchants and transcendent weapon/armor enchants).
The gear in question is level 70 gear. As in.... you need to be level 70 to use it? I don't see anything wrong with using armor gained through game progression on a character that is already at max level and thrown into the fray with people of the same level that have had the chance to attain BiS.
Using transcendents and Level 12 enchants is what kills PvP when there is absolutely ZERO matchmaking when queuing for PVP. We don't LIKE getting a group of 5 Pug 1600 iLvL oppositions when queuing, we'd much prefer a 5man premade vs another high tier guild.
Until you start having the queue recognise iLvL and matchmake accordingly, there will always be the haves and the have nots in PVP coming together for 10 minutes of boredom (for both sides)
Thankfully this change allows for less of the 5 man BiS vs 5 Pug Low iLvL's that make everyone want to gnaw off their arms. If someone needs a hand to farm PvP gear talk to someone who is in the team that just smacked you out for advice/help. Not everyone who is BiS or in a high level PvP guild is a HAMSTER like everyone seems to think.
Guild - Synergy, Australia
SW - Lanfear, GWF - Krivnaar, OP - K'aathorn, DC - Allegria, CW - Mierin Eronaille
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inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
How about just letting us move the seals we earn back and fourth between our alts to even things up a bit, we could all gear up a little easier, large developed guilds will still have the advantage that seems to be what's intended. But smaller guilds and non PVP guild members and even solo players could at least share in the benefits of sharing between their alts of different classes which may or may not have been intended but seems pretty popular with the people who can do it, so why not let us all do it and make us all happy.
FYI isn't twinking about taking lower level toons into PVP using enchantments etc that would normally not be available to that toon during course of standard play? (i.e. gearing a level 30 with level 12 enchants and transcendent weapon/armor enchants).
The gear in question is level 70 gear. As in.... you need to be level 70 to use it? I don't see anything wrong with using armor gained through game progression on a character that is already at max level and thrown into the fray with people of the same level that have had the chance to attain BiS.
Using transcendents and Level 12 enchants is what kills PvP when there is absolutely ZERO matchmaking when queuing for PVP. We don't LIKE getting a group of 5 Pug 1600 iLvL oppositions when queuing, we'd much prefer a 5man premade vs another high tier guild.
Until you start having the queue recognise iLvL and matchmake accordingly, there will always be the haves and the have nots in PVP coming together for 10 minutes of boredom (for both sides)
Thankfully this change allows for less of the 5 man BiS vs 5 Pug Low iLvL's that make everyone want to gnaw off their arms. If someone needs a hand to farm PvP gear talk to someone who is in the team that just smacked you out for advice/help. Not everyone who is BiS or in a high level PvP guild is a HAMSTER like everyone seems to think.
Ok, so some background on "twinking" in that "other" game notsoWoW *hint*. Battle grounds and arenas were in lvl Q's, so L21-30s were Q'd to like lvled toons. L31-40 etc.
Most skills came in or lvled up on "even" lvls. So you would have magic arrow @ L22 and another skill @ L24 etc. The next tier (and thusly more powerful) would come in @32 and 34 etc. So the grouping of players L21-30 wouldn't have a hugely uneven advatage other than some more or less mana/hp etc.
Now to twinkers: There was in game blue/purple gear that came in right at lvl edge. L29, L39 etc. That was real rare or "named boss" drop gear that sold for massive amounts of gold that a player of that lvl would have in reality. The player with that amount of gold was either financing a smaller alt toon, or a gold buyer. They were pocket warriors that liked to grief other players. The gear they would fit out was so, so far beyond what ordinary players could get, or that gear had a buff to a skill or stat that threw the match totally in their favor.
The "twinker" would deliberately choose not to lvl their toon beyond that stage so they could sit atop the rankings etc. or more often happened, grief other players on the other team, they would be so dominate that they would camp the respawn point of the other team and insta-kill them on resurrection. They would draw out matches in battlegrounds that took normally 15 min. to take HOURS, just to get a giggle and a achievement/rank.
The Devs were well aware of this phenomenon and were complicite in it for YRS.
So cut to the current game mechanics and gearing, this games version of "twinking" may not be so onerous, but it is sort of bad. The player does have to actually "earn" it and not be a pocket warrior per se. But after attaining it, it is CHEESY and annoying to those that haven't attained that glorious status.
They play a character that is far sturdier in PvP, it's a simple fact that some classes got it better than others in PvP. They then earn the gear with that class, then they get to take that gear that the rugged PvP toon earned and get to fit it to a toon that may NEVER have played PvP or "earned" gear. That other toon class is now "insta BIS" via the more rugged toons intervention. That toon that may never have played PvP now has it over every other player earning their way through PvP with that far less rugged character. They can now "grief" all the other players of that class type having totally inflated stats via the far superior they never "earned" with that class.
It's like a pro-racer having his race crew remove the engine and tires etc. from his car, installing it in a hoopty looking car, then going down to the hood to the street races and challenging teenagers for pink slips. His car only "looks" like a hoopty, it actuallyhas all the performance of a Nascar racer and is serviced by a professional race team and driven by a professional driver. Were in that is it "fair" competition?
Yes, the player "earned" the gear and it's his/hers, but aren't they sort of "twinking", at least the spirit of "twinking" anyway?They are totally stacking the deck in their favor, without the other player having a realistic chance. And then, actually bragging they beat a teen in his hoopty, with the hopped up professional disguised model the player had all the advantages in.
Can devs please make possible to buy any class Elven gear as account-bound ? This gear is obsolete and it is pity to flush these seals into AD refinement. It is actually "fight the AD inflation" measure.
Im sorry but the Elven Gear is not obsolete, its not because the SH gear is new that its better. For all my classes, i only bought the Dragonflight gear for my cleric, two pieces for my HR only and absolutely none for my cw.
The gear in this game is now just a matter of stats. Take the stats in the gear you wanna have. Some gwf still have the Assault helm that you get in t2 drop just because this helm has a huge crit. Some DC still use High Prophet set because of the bonus, and with all the HP boons you can get, its simply enough. Some CW still use HV set for the same reason.
I think people are often mistaken now by thinking that "new = better OMFG I NEED TO HAVE IT".
I cant talk about pvp set though because i dont pvp, but imho, the pve Dragonflight gear is just not the gear i want for the stats i need.
Actually a pretty interesting read. Definitely cheesy in the way you have described it, because they are deliberately choosing to stay in a lower bracket of PvP and use what's considered BiS gear to troll or make the whole PvP level block unfair or unattainable to those that are playing around them.
That definitely fits with the car analogy you used for that game....
However, the ability to fit a max-level 70 toon out with level 70 gear does NOT fit the same analogy.
If you want to use the same NASCAR/racing analogy, what you are arguing against is a driver who normally drives in the best car available, with sponsors and a bank account to allow him to be good at his job after working his way to the elite of the race and owns and uses good equipment coming up against a kid who got given literally the oldest shittiest race car from the 1970's for his 18th (or whatever driving age in your country is) birthday, coming into the big leagues where everyone has the same max horsepower and maximum fuel load rules as they are now competing at the highest level available, he knows he's gonna get busted up but he keeps trying to compete in his stock standard junk pile.
He then starts complaining when the expert race car driver changes to a different car that he also owns and still has the support of his sponsors to basically try to kit his new car out with similar engines, wheels, trans etc as the one he drove last week.
'That's unfair' the new-kid says, 'I just got here and he can beat me cos he has a better car, but it's not the car he was driving last week, so he should start off as a HAMSTER 1970's crapbox like mine otherwise it's really unfair to me'.
Why should that driver that's been there for ages, kick himself back into a HAMSTER car from 1970's that technically is allowed at the top level of that style of racing drop himself back to a HAMSTER car without using some of the sponsership he's already gained over the last 3 years of driving at that level to kit out his new car with some decent gear to continue to compete with the other drivers still in their original high level race cars?
If you fill up the race with more HAMSTER cars the quality of the races will go to HAMSTER and there will be an even larger disparity between the cars when other drivers decide to drive their best cars on race day.
When you think about it like that it makes a bit more sense to allow all equipment for all toons at the MAX level....
HOWEVER Lower levels should have restrictions on the levels of enchants etc that are allowed. Just like lower bracket races have limits on horsepower etc on the cars that drive in them.
(Or even better start matchmaking in PVP Cryptic, that might help a little more yeah?)
Guild - Synergy, Australia
SW - Lanfear, GWF - Krivnaar, OP - K'aathorn, DC - Allegria, CW - Mierin Eronaille
KK I'll concede I oversimplified with the car analogy, but you got a bit wrong as well. Nascar and other race organizations bracket car races. You have the amateur, semi-pro and pro lvls. You also have cars having rules that make them very, very much the same cars. The engines can't exceed x amount of horse power, the tires have to be within a spec, the cars have to be so many inches above the surface, the car body can't be shorter or longer than a certain perameters etc. etc. It truly comes down to driver skill, crew skill, and some amount of luck.
With it this way on the armor switch etc. it would be more like, the racer was always a funny car driver, he competed with other funny car drivers, he "earned" any trophies he got because of skill and longevity and with prize purse he yes, got to get the top notch crew and quality of vehicle. It was totally fair he got the better stuff, he raced for it and spent wisely etc. BUT he did it within the parameters that the league required of his bracket (the tires, engine etc. couldn't exceed what the rules said.)
So now along comes this race car driver, with his funny car and all the rules and stuff in place and the league decides that all racers that have gotten X trophy gets to ignore the gear parameters and they don't have to stay in their bracket, they can race amateur or semi-pro if they desire, but not have to tell they actually are a pro racer.All new racers get to use only the old gear but trophy guys get to slap anything he wants in, irregardless of HP and specs of other cars.
So this pro-now-gets-to-claim-amateur racer decides it will be fun to race go-carts. Now everyone can see he is actually in a funny car, and he is up against go-carts, but everyone pretends he is a new inexperienced driver vs. other go-carts. So yes, he didn't drive go-carts before, so I guess you can say he is "amateur" go-cart driver, but he still has all the power and crew of the funny car! Do we really have to pretend he "earned" the go-cart trophy that he was clearly over matching other drivers? Was it a sporting race for the other drivers? They were all in with what they had, but with that real pro-racer called amateur in they will NEVER get the top purse so they too can get the better quality car, crew and sponsor.
Here's what I learned from this thread, "Level 70 gear on a level 20 character is awesome if you have a level 70 main. It's even more awesome in PvP because one person with this gear can solo rofflestomp an entire 5 man team of newbs." I'll bet anyone who has started playing this game in the past few months would strongly disagree with those who feel this way. I'm also willing to bet people who feel this way now, wouldn't if they were new players.
Rewards for long time players are logical, this is how you reward your customers for their loyalty, even if said rewards tip the power scale a little bit to quite a bit in the favor of long time players. I could give two hippo farts if people can use this gear in PvE. Level 70 gear with full stats on level 20 characters in PvP takes the power scale, smashes it with a hammer then melts said scale to molten metal with a nuclear missile. Anyone who can't understand this is either a donkey's rear end or someone who fits the "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." description. I'm sure the people in favor of this would all make fine dictators and tyrants, their parents must be proud.
I'm pretty much PVE only, and have a couple toons that regularly get autobooted from PUG dungeon runs. Yeah, my gear isn't awesome, that's why I'm trying to run the dungeons, mate. So, if one of my better toons can help out with obtaining some better gear pieces, to help the others, that's fine.
I can see the resentment in the PVP situation, but if my decent DPS toon can help gear up my lowly GF to tank for the guild dungeon runs, the whole guild wins.
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I'm pretty much PVE only, and have a couple toons that regularly get autobooted from PUG dungeon runs. Yeah, my gear isn't awesome, that's why I'm trying to run the dungeons, mate. So, if one of my better toons can help out with obtaining some better gear pieces, to help the others, that's fine.
I can see the resentment in the PVP situation, but if my decent DPS toon can help gear up my lowly GF to tank for the guild dungeon runs, the whole guild wins.
Do you understand the thread? We are discussing PvP gear that can be earned by a L70 toon in PvP (with pvp stats) being able to take that gear and legacy it to their little toons (being a totally other class) in PvP, giving the little toons, a unprecidented advantage over all the other players that AREN'T L70 nor the same class as the L70 they earned the gear through.
It had nothing to do about dungeons or guilds. However in case you did understand the thread, per your quote about helping gear your GF for your guilds run. Are you arguing the end justify the means? It's o.k. to screw every other player in the game as long as it enhances you ability to help your guild run dungeons? Are you really that callous?
Sort of when Stalin of the USSR was told that his policy and central planning was going to doom 20m+ people to starve and freeze to death, his response was a "end justify the means" answer. "They aren't were I need them to be, in the factories, modernizing our great society, if millions must die to achieve my great plan, so be it." Are you arguing that sort of thing? That because your friends and you benefit everyone else can go and get stuffed...if so, well we won't be friends. 0.o
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Just so there is not any confusion, the account bound status is intentional. In fact, with the release of Module 6 certain equipment such as those pieces purchased with seals of the elements were already account bound, though equipment for other classes was somewhat obscurely buried in the "misc." tab.
Very awesome to hear, @asterdahl! Thanks! I'm sure you all remember that I am totally against anything in an MMO being bound at all. However, if we must have things bind, I do feel pretty much everything should be Account Bound. The game has strayed very far from an alt-friendly game as it used to be for the first few modules. More account bound and less character bound is a great way to bring the game back to your alt-o'holic playerbase.
As far as the issue of transmutes or dyes changing the bind status without a warning, I can't say that there will be a change to those systems affecting bind status, but we will certainly be looking into the fact that there is no warning message when the bind status is about to change. I would like to apologize for any inconvenience this issue may have caused.
Yeah, anything that makes something become character bound, regardless of it's prior bind status, should give a promt as a warning so people can make better decisions. However, as I stated above, I do feel there really shouldn't be any "character" binding in the game, most everything that binds should be account bound. Aye.
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited October 2015
Pity the T2 elven gear isn't bound to account. Freakin annoying trying to find runs and people are all ready capped on DPS and need healers or tanks, when I freakin want to get seals for some of my DPS characters.
Just so there is not any confusion, the account bound status is intentional. In fact, with the release of Module 6 certain equipment such as those pieces purchased with seals of the elements were already account bound, though equipment for other classes was somewhat obscurely buried in the "misc." tab.
Very awesome to hear, @asterdahl! Thanks! I'm sure you all remember that I am totally against anything in an MMO being bound at all. However, if we must have things bind, I do feel pretty much everything should be Account Bound. The game has strayed very far from an alt-friendly game as it used to be for the first few modules. More account bound and less character bound is a great way to bring the game back to your alt-o'holic playerbase.
As far as the issue of transmutes or dyes changing the bind status without a warning, I can't say that there will be a change to those systems affecting bind status, but we will certainly be looking into the fact that there is no warning message when the bind status is about to change. I would like to apologize for any inconvenience this issue may have caused.
Yeah, anything that makes something become character bound, regardless of it's prior bind status, should give a promt as a warning so people can make better decisions. However, as I stated above, I do feel there really shouldn't be any "character" binding in the game, most everything that binds should be account bound. Aye.
I completely agree that everything, and I mean everything should be account bound. I mean from RP to gear, from artifacts to mounts, from SH banners to tarmalune bars. If these changes were made I think you could see a lot of people purchasing more character slots for alts to play and gear up!
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
KK I'll concede I oversimplified with the car analogy, but you got a bit wrong as well. Nascar and other race organizations bracket car races. You have the amateur, semi-pro and pro lvls. You also have cars having rules that make them very, very much the same cars. The engines can't exceed x amount of horse power, the tires have to be within a spec, the cars have to be so many inches above the surface, the car body can't be shorter or longer than a certain perameters etc. etc. It truly comes down to driver skill, crew skill, and some amount of luck.
With it this way on the armor switch etc. it would be more like, the racer was always a funny car driver, he competed with other funny car drivers, he "earned" any trophies he got because of skill and longevity and with prize purse he yes, got to get the top notch crew and quality of vehicle. It was totally fair he got the better stuff, he raced for it and spent wisely etc. BUT he did it within the parameters that the league required of his bracket (the tires, engine etc. couldn't exceed what the rules said.)
So now along comes this race car driver, with his funny car and all the rules and stuff in place and the league decides that all racers that have gotten X trophy gets to ignore the gear parameters and they don't have to stay in their bracket, they can race amateur or semi-pro if they desire, but not have to tell they actually are a pro racer.All new racers get to use only the old gear but trophy guys get to slap anything he wants in, irregardless of HP and specs of other cars.
So this pro-now-gets-to-claim-amateur racer decides it will be fun to race go-carts. Now everyone can see he is actually in a funny car, and he is up against go-carts, but everyone pretends he is a new inexperienced driver vs. other go-carts. So yes, he didn't drive go-carts before, so I guess you can say he is "amateur" go-cart driver, but he still has all the power and crew of the funny car! Do we really have to pretend he "earned" the go-cart trophy that he was clearly over matching other drivers? Was it a sporting race for the other drivers? They were all in with what they had, but with that real pro-racer called amateur in they will NEVER get the top purse so they too can get the better quality car, crew and sponsor.
Dude, what is with the analogies? They are lengthy, verbose, and confusingly unnecessary. Just say why you don't like something in English because your analogies are like comical, are you a philosophy or theology fan or something? Because it's not like we're debating complex topics here until you start trying to weigh in with these nonsensical posts.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
FYI isn't twinking about taking lower level toons into PVP using enchantments etc that would normally not be available to that toon during course of standard play? (i.e. gearing a level 30 with level 12 enchants and transcendent weapon/armor enchants).
The gear in question is level 70 gear. As in.... you need to be level 70 to use it? I don't see anything wrong with using armor gained through game progression on a character that is already at max level and thrown into the fray with people of the same level that have had the chance to attain BiS.
Using transcendents and Level 12 enchants is what kills PvP when there is absolutely ZERO matchmaking when queuing for PVP. We don't LIKE getting a group of 5 Pug 1600 iLvL oppositions when queuing, we'd much prefer a 5man premade vs another high tier guild.
Until you start having the queue recognise iLvL and matchmake accordingly, there will always be the haves and the have nots in PVP coming together for 10 minutes of boredom (for both sides)
Thankfully this change allows for less of the 5 man BiS vs 5 Pug Low iLvL's that make everyone want to gnaw off their arms. If someone needs a hand to farm PvP gear talk to someone who is in the team that just smacked you out for advice/help. Not everyone who is BiS or in a high level PvP guild is a HAMSTER like everyone seems to think.
At lower levels the rank 12 enchants give twinkers a huge advantage in PVP. Using these in combination with gear that lets you use weapon/armor enchants makes it even more evident. The big problem as I've stated elsewhere is that there aren't enough players, imho, to separate the Q any more, Ilvel or otherwise. If the Q tried to do that noone would ever get into PVP. If this had been implemented originally (as it should've been) I think it would've been a lot less annoying for all involved and could have potentiated more interest in PVP.
At this point though, it has finally become just a matter of biding your time in SH (if you can ever get it to pop now) to get your banners so you can gear up. Rank 10-12 enchants are now cheaper than ever to build. Getting into SH is the main setback at this point. There are other things that need to be addressed but they are larger in scope than what was ever intended by this simple forum post.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Comments
You say it's good that it's easy that it is handed to you.
I, and others say it isn't.
You feel it is a good thing, that once you have gotten one of your better suited to "PvP action" toons to some threshold, all your other toons now reap the rewards of that.
I, and others say it isn't.
You feel it makes it more competitive to have it this way.
We say it isn't, (ok, read that ME), contend it is sort of a cheat (I conceed it isn't a cheat since it's WAI). So let's define it as CHEESY.
IMO I feel it is CHEESY, to have the ability to use something that gives you a definitive advantage over a majority of other players classes, minimally subjecting that class to the rigors OTHERS need go through. I find it CHEESY that not only can that be done, but it is bragged about. I find it not unlike (admittedly a game setting analogy) tripping a blind person and putting their cane out of reach, then treating them to "help" finding their cane (as you move it out of reach repeatedly).
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This gear is obsolete and it is pity to flush these seals into AD refinement.
It is actually "fight the AD inflation" measure.
— (The unwritten rule)
These crazy analogies you come up with don't even connect with the game man. When you have low gear, whether in PVE or PVP you can only hope that your team mates can help you beat the dungeon or defeat the opposing team. It's that simple. After running enough of the content you are able to gear up and help others get their gear as well. I am fully geared on my main basically now. That said, pugs on my team are probably grateful for having a BIS on their side and the other team probably doesn't like it. However, the very next match that may reverse when my pugs were from the other team last round. In this way BIS players are either hindrances or helpers depending on the luck of the draw.
If a BIS guild happens to Q as 5 or as 10 or as 15 or as a full 20 Group their hope is to fight another full guild Qing as well or at least a matched Q. This doesn't always happen, sometimes they go against a team of pugs. They don't necessarily clap themselves on the back for beating lesser geared pugs, they just collect their winnings and re Q hoping to get a good match the next round. This isn't anything that any other guild can't do though. If you want to Q with a 20 man guild crew then you can as well, there is no barrier to this save what guild you're in and whether they are interested in doing so.
If you have a different suggestion of how we should gear up that is preferable, please feel free to state it, or write your own well thought out forum post. But to make irrelevant analogies and continue to argue a bad argument without substance or an alternative... that's just lazy mate.
As always, thanks for your reply.
2) I never said I don't support your idea. It's a good idea. But I get it: we tend to inject negative slant on comments we read even if there is none. But no worries.
I was simply expressing that I don't think it will happen / get fixed; based on my long time experience playing Cryptic games and being so familiar with the game engine. Though as was officially stated: the lack of a warning is bad form and hopefully they will at least address that.
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I have played this game since beta and have been quite an avid transmuter/dye changer so I'm quite familiar with the bonding technique employed on gear. However this gear set has some newer properties and unique account wide abilities which is why I wanted to post here and see if I could get an answer or perhaps make a suggestion that would be listened to.
Thanks for your time
The gear in question is level 70 gear. As in.... you need to be level 70 to use it? I don't see anything wrong with using armor gained through game progression on a character that is already at max level and thrown into the fray with people of the same level that have had the chance to attain BiS.
Using transcendents and Level 12 enchants is what kills PvP when there is absolutely ZERO matchmaking when queuing for PVP. We don't LIKE getting a group of 5 Pug 1600 iLvL oppositions when queuing, we'd much prefer a 5man premade vs another high tier guild.
Until you start having the queue recognise iLvL and matchmake accordingly, there will always be the haves and the have nots in PVP coming together for 10 minutes of boredom (for both sides)
Thankfully this change allows for less of the 5 man BiS vs 5 Pug Low iLvL's that make everyone want to gnaw off their arms. If someone needs a hand to farm PvP gear talk to someone who is in the team that just smacked you out for advice/help. Not everyone who is BiS or in a high level PvP guild is a HAMSTER like everyone seems to think.
SW - Lanfear, GWF - Krivnaar, OP - K'aathorn, DC - Allegria, CW - Mierin Eronaille
Most skills came in or lvled up on "even" lvls. So you would have magic arrow @ L22 and another skill @ L24 etc. The next tier (and thusly more powerful) would come in @32 and 34 etc. So the grouping of players L21-30 wouldn't have a hugely uneven advatage other than some more or less mana/hp etc.
Now to twinkers: There was in game blue/purple gear that came in right at lvl edge. L29, L39 etc. That was real rare or "named boss" drop gear that sold for massive amounts of gold that a player of that lvl would have in reality. The player with that amount of gold was either financing a smaller alt toon, or a gold buyer. They were pocket warriors that liked to grief other players. The gear they would fit out was so, so far beyond what ordinary players could get, or that gear had a buff to a skill or stat that threw the match totally in their favor.
The "twinker" would deliberately choose not to lvl their toon beyond that stage so they could sit atop the rankings etc. or more often happened, grief other players on the other team, they would be so dominate that they would camp the respawn point of the other team and insta-kill them on resurrection. They would draw out matches in battlegrounds that took normally 15 min. to take HOURS, just to get a giggle and a achievement/rank.
The Devs were well aware of this phenomenon and were complicite in it for YRS.
So cut to the current game mechanics and gearing, this games version of "twinking" may not be so onerous, but it is sort of bad. The player does have to actually "earn" it and not be a pocket warrior per se. But after attaining it, it is CHEESY and annoying to those that haven't attained that glorious status.
They play a character that is far sturdier in PvP, it's a simple fact that some classes got it better than others in PvP. They then earn the gear with that class, then they get to take that gear that the rugged PvP toon earned and get to fit it to a toon that may NEVER have played PvP or "earned" gear. That other toon class is now "insta BIS" via the more rugged toons intervention. That toon that may never have played PvP now has it over every other player earning their way through PvP with that far less rugged character. They can now "grief" all the other players of that class type having totally inflated stats via the far superior they never "earned" with that class.
It's like a pro-racer having his race crew remove the engine and tires etc. from his car, installing it in a hoopty looking car, then going down to the hood to the street races and challenging teenagers for pink slips. His car only "looks" like a hoopty, it actuallyhas all the performance of a Nascar racer and is serviced by a professional race team and driven by a professional driver. Were in that is it "fair" competition?
Yes, the player "earned" the gear and it's his/hers, but aren't they sort of "twinking", at least the spirit of "twinking" anyway?They are totally stacking the deck in their favor, without the other player having a realistic chance. And then, actually bragging they beat a teen in his hoopty, with the hopped up professional disguised model the player had all the advantages in.
Yeh, it's CHEESY.
The gear in this game is now just a matter of stats. Take the stats in the gear you wanna have.
Some gwf still have the Assault helm that you get in t2 drop just because this helm has a huge crit.
Some DC still use High Prophet set because of the bonus, and with all the HP boons you can get, its simply enough.
Some CW still use HV set for the same reason.
I think people are often mistaken now by thinking that "new = better OMFG I NEED TO HAVE IT".
I cant talk about pvp set though because i dont pvp, but imho, the pve Dragonflight gear is just not the gear i want for the stats i need.
That definitely fits with the car analogy you used for that game....
However, the ability to fit a max-level 70 toon out with level 70 gear does NOT fit the same analogy.
If you want to use the same NASCAR/racing analogy, what you are arguing against is a driver who normally drives in the best car available, with sponsors and a bank account to allow him to be good at his job after working his way to the elite of the race and owns and uses good equipment coming up against a kid who got given literally the oldest shittiest race car from the 1970's for his 18th (or whatever driving age in your country is) birthday, coming into the big leagues where everyone has the same max horsepower and maximum fuel load rules as they are now competing at the highest level available, he knows he's gonna get busted up but he keeps trying to compete in his stock standard junk pile.
He then starts complaining when the expert race car driver changes to a different car that he also owns and still has the support of his sponsors to basically try to kit his new car out with similar engines, wheels, trans etc as the one he drove last week.
'That's unfair' the new-kid says, 'I just got here and he can beat me cos he has a better car, but it's not the car he was driving last week, so he should start off as a HAMSTER 1970's crapbox like mine otherwise it's really unfair to me'.
Why should that driver that's been there for ages, kick himself back into a HAMSTER car from 1970's that technically is allowed at the top level of that style of racing drop himself back to a HAMSTER car without using some of the sponsership he's already gained over the last 3 years of driving at that level to kit out his new car with some decent gear to continue to compete with the other drivers still in their original high level race cars?
If you fill up the race with more HAMSTER cars the quality of the races will go to HAMSTER and there will be an even larger disparity between the cars when other drivers decide to drive their best cars on race day.
When you think about it like that it makes a bit more sense to allow all equipment for all toons at the MAX level....
HOWEVER Lower levels should have restrictions on the levels of enchants etc that are allowed. Just like lower bracket races have limits on horsepower etc on the cars that drive in them.
(Or even better start matchmaking in PVP Cryptic, that might help a little more yeah?)
SW - Lanfear, GWF - Krivnaar, OP - K'aathorn, DC - Allegria, CW - Mierin Eronaille
With it this way on the armor switch etc. it would be more like, the racer was always a funny car driver, he competed with other funny car drivers, he "earned" any trophies he got because of skill and longevity and with prize purse he yes, got to get the top notch crew and quality of vehicle. It was totally fair he got the better stuff, he raced for it and spent wisely etc. BUT he did it within the parameters that the league required of his bracket (the tires, engine etc. couldn't exceed what the rules said.)
So now along comes this race car driver, with his funny car and all the rules and stuff in place and the league decides that all racers that have gotten X trophy gets to ignore the gear parameters and they don't have to stay in their bracket, they can race amateur or semi-pro if they desire, but not have to tell they actually are a pro racer.All new racers get to use only the old gear but trophy guys get to slap anything he wants in, irregardless of HP and specs of other cars.
So this pro-now-gets-to-claim-amateur racer decides it will be fun to race go-carts. Now everyone can see he is actually in a funny car, and he is up against go-carts, but everyone pretends he is a new inexperienced driver vs. other go-carts. So yes, he didn't drive go-carts before, so I guess you can say he is "amateur" go-cart driver, but he still has all the power and crew of the funny car! Do we really have to pretend he "earned" the go-cart trophy that he was clearly over matching other drivers? Was it a sporting race for the other drivers? They were all in with what they had, but with that real pro-racer called amateur in they will NEVER get the top purse so they too can get the better quality car, crew and sponsor.
Rewards for long time players are logical, this is how you reward your customers for their loyalty, even if said rewards tip the power scale a little bit to quite a bit in the favor of long time players. I could give two hippo farts if people can use this gear in PvE. Level 70 gear with full stats on level 20 characters in PvP takes the power scale, smashes it with a hammer then melts said scale to molten metal with a nuclear missile. Anyone who can't understand this is either a donkey's rear end or someone who fits the "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." description. I'm sure the people in favor of this would all make fine dictators and tyrants, their parents must be proud.
I'm pretty much PVE only, and have a couple toons that regularly get autobooted from PUG dungeon runs. Yeah, my gear isn't awesome, that's why I'm trying to run the dungeons, mate. So, if one of my better toons can help out with obtaining some better gear pieces, to help the others, that's fine.
I can see the resentment in the PVP situation, but if my decent DPS toon can help gear up my lowly GF to tank for the guild dungeon runs, the whole guild wins.
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It had nothing to do about dungeons or guilds. However in case you did understand the thread, per your quote about helping gear your GF for your guilds run. Are you arguing the end justify the means? It's o.k. to screw every other player in the game as long as it enhances you ability to help your guild run dungeons? Are you really that callous?
Sort of when Stalin of the USSR was told that his policy and central planning was going to doom 20m+ people to starve and freeze to death, his response was a "end justify the means" answer. "They aren't were I need them to be, in the factories, modernizing our great society, if millions must die to achieve my great plan, so be it." Are you arguing that sort of thing? That because your friends and you benefit everyone else can go and get stuffed...if so, well we won't be friends. 0.o
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I'm already packed on seals with my healer/tank.
Thanks for your reply.
At this point though, it has finally become just a matter of biding your time in SH (if you can ever get it to pop now) to get your banners so you can gear up. Rank 10-12 enchants are now cheaper than ever to build. Getting into SH is the main setback at this point. There are other things that need to be addressed but they are larger in scope than what was ever intended by this simple forum post.
Thanks for your reply.