There is a definite trend against solo and casual players, fine Cryptic suit yourselves was fun whilst it lasted, my limited time and my credit card will go elsewhere
I've made about 50k per day using only three character (one level 70, two level 60s) and just invoking on a level 30-something. It's not so bad. And that was with relatively minimal playtime added to my usual routine of farming for gear with my level 70. That's like 350k per week for just playing the game. I think that's just fine.
When I commented on this in PE, I got a bunch of people telling me I was lying. Clearly those people haven't just gone out and tried playing the game to earn AD. Too many people reacted to this change by just sitting around complaining rather than exploring how to generate AD now.
And this actually is an increase in my daily AD income compared to before (I had no leadership army, and actually no characters with max leadership).
after 2 days about 4 hours a day I made 164k ad that's not to bad I don't think just takes more work and leaves no time for my campaign stuff but if need to farm diamonds its possible.
Please explain how you got it. I have already posted my very detailed 4 hour farming today and only got 24k ad.
Likewise. I'm eager to see a breakdown. Because so far, I've run 4 dungeons (with VIP) across two characters and gotten a whopping 8K. And no. I didn't get any 3K bonus AD. And the last dungeon gave my a whopping 75.
part of the problem is people do not relize the ad are a drop from the final boss you don't pick it up you don't get it lost count how many times seen ranged classes and even melee kill boss and exit never running over to pick up there ad
after 2 days about 4 hours a day I made 164k ad that's not to bad I don't think just takes more work and leaves no time for my campaign stuff but if need to farm diamonds its possible.
Please explain how you got it. I have already posted my very detailed 4 hour farming today and only got 24k ad.
Likewise. I'm eager to see a breakdown. Because so far, I've run 4 dungeons (with VIP) across two characters and gotten a whopping 8K. And no. I didn't get any 3K bonus AD. And the last dungeon gave my a whopping 75.
part of the problem is people do not relize the ad are a drop from the final boss you don't pick it up you don't get it lost count how many times seen ranged classes and even melee kill boss and exit never running over to pick up there ad
It doesn't work. It's been posted several times on the bug thread. Even when everyone tries keep running around boss and everywhere just in case it's not in boss' body, you still can't get the 3k+. I only get above 3k 30% of the time. This is in the first 2 runs btw.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
after 2 days about 4 hours a day I made 164k ad that's not to bad I don't think just takes more work and leaves no time for my campaign stuff but if need to farm diamonds its possible.
Please explain how you got it. I have already posted my very detailed 4 hour farming today and only got 24k ad.
Likewise. I'm eager to see a breakdown. Because so far, I've run 4 dungeons (with VIP) across two characters and gotten a whopping 8K. And no. I didn't get any 3K bonus AD. And the last dungeon gave my a whopping 75.
part of the problem is people do not relize the ad are a drop from the final boss you don't pick it up you don't get it lost count how many times seen ranged classes and even melee kill boss and exit never running over to pick up there ad
It doesn't work. It's been posted several times on the bug thread. Even when everyone tries keep running around boss and everywhere just in case it's not in boss' body, you still can't get the 3k+. I only get above 3k 30% of the time. This is in the first 2 runs btw.
hmm I have had no trouble getting mine I always get the full amount plus bonus everytime I run usauly end up with 7 to 8k for after 2 runs
after 2 days about 4 hours a day I made 164k ad that's not to bad I don't think just takes more work and leaves no time for my campaign stuff but if need to farm diamonds its possible.
Please explain how you got it. I have already posted my very detailed 4 hour farming today and only got 24k ad.
Likewise. I'm eager to see a breakdown. Because so far, I've run 4 dungeons (with VIP) across two characters and gotten a whopping 8K. And no. I didn't get any 3K bonus AD. And the last dungeon gave my a whopping 75.
part of the problem is people do not relize the ad are a drop from the final boss you don't pick it up you don't get it lost count how many times seen ranged classes and even melee kill boss and exit never running over to pick up there ad
It doesn't work. It's been posted several times on the bug thread. Even when everyone tries keep running around boss and everywhere just in case it's not in boss' body, you still can't get the 3k+. I only get above 3k 30% of the time. This is in the first 2 runs btw.
hmm I have had no trouble getting mine I always get the full amount plus bonus everytime I run usauly end up with 7 to 8k for after 2 runs
Broken here, i've done more than 20 runs in the past 2 days. Everyone gets the same amount sometimes we get 4k in one run, but most of the time it's just between 1-2k.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
I've made about 50k per day using only three character (one level 70, two level 60s) and just invoking on a level 30-something. It's not so bad. And that was with relatively minimal playtime added to my usual routine of farming for gear with my level 70. That's like 350k per week for just playing the game. I think that's just fine.
When I commented on this in PE, I got a bunch of people telling me I was lying. Clearly those people haven't just gone out and tried playing the game to earn AD. Too many people reacted to this change by just sitting around complaining rather than exploring how to generate AD now.
And this actually is an increase in my daily AD income compared to before (I had no leadership army, and actually no characters with max leadership).
This confuses me. You keep saying that the people that are complaining aren't giving enough efforts in, but you won't even put in the effort to detail your numbers.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
Lemme jump into this and be a part of the choir going "Yay, you screwed over the casual player".
With limited time on hand due to real life (you know, some of us are adults right?) I, as many others have already stated, used the low leadership income to make long term goals - and even though the income was low, it was an income. Whenever I have had time, I have played the different aspects of the game, to increase the income a little. Now, you have just gone "If you have a life, and cannot spend hours playing this bugged game daily, or do not want to overload your credit card; Bugger off".
And whilst I am pointing towards the game being bugged; Did you ever consider, revisiting the rewards for the leadership tasks, and the time they take, when you decided to remove AD from 'em? I mean, seriously....some of 'em are just downright silly now.
Oh, and could you actually bother to fix the broken-for-months invocation?
I've made about 50k per day using only three character (one level 70, two level 60s) and just invoking on a level 30-something. It's not so bad. And that was with relatively minimal playtime added to my usual routine of farming for gear with my level 70. That's like 350k per week for just playing the game. I think that's just fine.
When I commented on this in PE, I got a bunch of people telling me I was lying. Clearly those people haven't just gone out and tried playing the game to earn AD. Too many people reacted to this change by just sitting around complaining rather than exploring how to generate AD now.
And this actually is an increase in my daily AD income compared to before (I had no leadership army, and actually no characters with max leadership).
This confuses me. You keep saying that the people that are complaining aren't giving enough efforts in, but you won't even put in the effort to detail your numbers.
what details do you want I said 8 char 2 runs each plus salvage that's all I did what more info do you need?
ok let me chart it out char 1 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 2 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 3 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 4 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 5 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 6 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 7 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 8 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot
day two see day 1
end of day 2 transferred all ad to main char got total logged out for the day went to fourms made post with results and as I stated it took about 4 hours to do all 8 chars which left me no time to do any of my campaign dailes
I managed one LoL run last night and pulled 7.7k (4.7k from Lostmauth drop and 3k from the chest item) with no other drops along the way. With that and the 2 Invokes that's 8k for that toon, for 20 minutes effort. Claims of the first post don't seem far fetched if all you are doing is farming for the AD.
Now if there is a bug (and that wouldn't surprise me) I can also imagine that some people are having a hard time getting any reasonable amount of AD, but the truth is I happened to be looking right at Lostmauth as the AD dropped and so it was chance that I got it at all, so I also find it likely that people are just not getting the AD.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I've made about 50k per day using only three character (one level 70, two level 60s) and just invoking on a level 30-something. It's not so bad. And that was with relatively minimal playtime added to my usual routine of farming for gear with my level 70. That's like 350k per week for just playing the game. I think that's just fine.
When I commented on this in PE, I got a bunch of people telling me I was lying. Clearly those people haven't just gone out and tried playing the game to earn AD. Too many people reacted to this change by just sitting around complaining rather than exploring how to generate AD now.
And this actually is an increase in my daily AD income compared to before (I had no leadership army, and actually no characters with max leadership).
This confuses me. You keep saying that the people that are complaining aren't giving enough efforts in, but you won't even put in the effort to detail your numbers.
what details do you want I said 8 char 2 runs each plus salvage that's all I did what more info do you need?
ok let me chart it out char 1 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 2 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 3 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 4 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 5 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 6 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 7 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 8 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot
day two see day 1
end of day 2 transferred all ad to main char got total logged out for the day went to fourms made post with results and as I stated it took about 4 hours to do all 8 chars which left me no time to do any of my campaign dailes
Wow all your alts can do epics? I guess you're not going to be affected then, and the key thing from what i said is of course numbers, but if all your characters are geared, you're quite the exception.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
It is very hard to post responses when it is very clear the only response many of you want to see is that the leadership changes will be reversed.
Many of you see AD as a fixed value so you see less AD generation as less value gained when in truth you could be gaining less AD at more value than before. Supply and demand is an economic law even when applied to currency and the rate of AD generation just could not be counterbalanced between all of the leadership farming by bots and players alike. If the economy was healthy then we wouldn't have been sitting at 500:1 AD:Zen for nearly two years.
It reached a point where creating AD sinks to counteract the leadership farming would be exactly what many of you are calling this: detrimental to casual and new players. The economy was being completely offset by those with large farms and especially by the bots who sat and did nothing but farm leadership all day every day. You can't balance the economy with sinks to combat that AD revenue without making it unbearably hard on players who are new or do not want to manage leadership farms like a second job.
The old system was broken and it couldn't be fixed. My only complaint when I heard about this change was that it should have been done a long time ago.
People will have more AD than others due to the old system but that will balance out in time and is absolutely not a reason to cite the old broken as hell system to remain.
Bots will still exist but it will be far harder for them to create bots to grind game content than it will be for them to create account hopping leadership farms.
That doesn't mean it is perfect. The Community Team is not happy with the new Leadership Rewards to start and we definitely want AD to be generated more commonly for more in game activities. The best bit of feedback I collected from this thread was a player saying that he was forced to choose between running dungeons/skirmishes/pvp for AD or doing campaign missions for the one to two hours he had to play and I agree it that is a huge problem.
We are silent because many of you make it clear there is no common ground communication. It's hard to communicate and work together with people who make it clear the only thing they want to hear is 'the broken system is coming back.' The old system was broken and for most of the reasons advocates for it cite as the problem with the direction of the current changes.
The new system is not perfect. It needs tweaking and a lot of it and we are looking through threads such as this one to collect feedback for improvements like the example I provided earlier. If you want more two way communication you are going to have to step beyond the knee jerking 'we want the old system' and look towards what is truly wrong with this system.
If there's only one reason for bringing "the old system" back, it's so the developers can have more time to come up with an actual replacement for the system instead of just yanking the carpet out from under us with absolutely nothing in return to start. This is no "system" we've got right now, the changes to AD gain from dungeons/skirmishes/pvp is not only nothing for most but actually a loss in AD for a lot of people.
The new "system" is just ripping out a big chunk of the game with promises of improvement "later". This happened with the dungeons, and months later we still have no dungeons. So is it going to be months until we get an actual new system or are we going to be stuck with an economy more broken than it was before.
Leadership farms were a crutch that never should've been in the game in the first place, but it's the crutch that was given to us. They can't just knock it out from under our feet and gives us absolutely nothing in return, because we aren't going to just sit and crawl around on our hands and knees hoping for the best. Because when was the last time we got anything close to the best?
If all you hear from us is "we want the broken system back" then there really is no point in communicating. Especially when this all started with the complete bald faced lie of combating bots. Who'd want to talk with a bunch of liars?
Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance! CW: Rodrant Turnbul TR: Rodran DC: Rodrat GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL Other GWF: Shieldrant HR: Bowdrant SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!) OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
I've made about 50k per day using only three character (one level 70, two level 60s) and just invoking on a level 30-something. It's not so bad. And that was with relatively minimal playtime added to my usual routine of farming for gear with my level 70. That's like 350k per week for just playing the game. I think that's just fine.
When I commented on this in PE, I got a bunch of people telling me I was lying. Clearly those people haven't just gone out and tried playing the game to earn AD. Too many people reacted to this change by just sitting around complaining rather than exploring how to generate AD now.
And this actually is an increase in my daily AD income compared to before (I had no leadership army, and actually no characters with max leadership).
This confuses me. You keep saying that the people that are complaining aren't giving enough efforts in, but you won't even put in the effort to detail your numbers.
what details do you want I said 8 char 2 runs each plus salvage that's all I did what more info do you need?
ok let me chart it out char 1 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 2 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 3 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 4 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 5 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 6 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 7 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 8 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot
day two see day 1
end of day 2 transferred all ad to main char got total logged out for the day went to fourms made post with results and as I stated it took about 4 hours to do all 8 chars which left me no time to do any of my campaign dailes
Lemme jump into this and be a part of the choir going "Yay, you screwed over the casual player".
With limited time on hand due to real life (you know, some of us are adults right?) I, as many others have already stated, used the low leadership income to make long term goals - and even though the income was low, it was an income. Whenever I have had time, I have played the different aspects of the game, to increase the income a little. Now, you have just gone "If you have a life, and cannot spend hours playing this bugged game daily, or do not want to overload your credit card; Bugger off".
And whilst I am pointing towards the game being bugged; Did you ever consider, revisiting the rewards for the leadership tasks, and the time they take, when you decided to remove AD from 'em? I mean, seriously....some of 'em are just downright silly now.
Oh, and could you actually bother to fix the broken-for-months invocation?
You know...the most important thing in a game is to make the player feel in control. Professions capable of generating AD was just that: players were able to set a goal and work towards it slow and steady. You also had the power to do whatever you wanted and still get rewarded for playing your way.
All these changes do is slap the player in the face and say "Nope, you're going to play OUR way whether you like it or not".
It's not having less AD, it's about not being able to play ANY of the (little) content besides the 6 dungeons, 4 skirmishes and broken PvP the game has and get any sensible progression towards that. When I looked up NWO reviews before starting to play, I saw that one of the many flaws was "too many currencies". I was intrigued by that, because I figured it would lead to players having to be smart, and balance them out for profit and fun. Instead, what I found was that 99% of the currencies in the game (Including GOLD) were nigh useless for pretty much everything, and hardly if ever convertable to others. The game's so-called "economy" is out of whack, because of a single currency making collecting any other a moot point, and making obtaining the few that are actually worth collecting a chore to repeat at infinitum.
And that is not making the player feel in control. That's the exact opposite: puppet-stringing the player into only doing certain actions and deny them any form of progression if they "stray" from this path. The amount of control a player has is pretty much the same as Pac-Man in this point: You can decide how you move and little more.
- our ability to earn AD has been cut by perhaps 70-90% - fixed-price items that are absolutely required to progress are priced exactly the same
To me, this is inexcusable. Changing leadership in this way is an earth-shaking change and demands due diligence. How else can we react except to ask, "why is this so?" Is it laziness? Is it a knee-jerk reaction to the present sad state of the NWO economy? Or, is it a calculated move to try to nudge -- in a rather forceful way -- players to buy Zen that they can convert to AD?
The way that this was done does not engender trust. The utter lack of communication to valid questions and suspicions does not, either -- AT ALL. You do not do something like this to a playerbase and then initiate a complete communication blackout.
EARN? Earn you say? How? You log in and pushed a button and got AD the next day. YOU EARNED NOTHING! You did NOT fight, you did NOT quest, You put no TIME in for your new AD, your BOTS did!! That's the point here. You don't get to just push a button and reap the rewards. And Don't give me or any one else any bull about how you put so much time to doing Leadership should get to the AD. Every scrap of my AD I got from having to play with some dork in burning this or that armor and spend half of the run picking THEM off of the floor. If anyone who saw this flaw early on should have had the Integrity to notify the devs so the BS doesn't happen!!!
Basically instead of slowly steering the game into the right direction, we were suddenly forced to go a different direction at full speed without even know where we are supposed to go. Reading the new patch note, apparently we will continue in this limbo direction for another week. I don't want to have to repeat what I did today (8 hours of TOS, Kessels, eLOL) everyday for the next 7 days, and I still have my VIP active for another 5 months.... The community aspect of this game is gone, this might as well be some action game I play on my phone.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
1. Cryptic never could foresee that people would be loyal and roll alts. Even since pre-alpha the attitudes were "Ahhh people will play for two weeks, quit for a while, come back later". So good people just played the game the way it was intended and it hurt the bottom line.
2. Botters. But not just AD bots. ALL EXPLOITERS have cost Cryptic. Blaming just AD botting was simply terribly misleading. Exploiters already have a plan to strike it rich, and will fine tune within a few days.
Guilds like Tyrs have many guildies with 5, 10 15 alts.. easy. These are all honest players that do not exploit. Many are paying customers with over TWO + YEARS of play.
To ask players to go from 5-10 alts (a matter of pride and accomplishment for many) to 1 or 2 characters after 2+ years is terribly defeating.
This is an IDEA ON PAPER that has gone horribly wrong in motion. Its more than a catch 22, it is a perfect storm.
Solutions are many though, and Cryptic has a CHANCE to make this right.
So, HOW does Cryptic get this game back on track? Well the way you get ANY game back on track... there needs to be a GAME PLAN. And it needs to be announced asap, because to use a real estate term.... "time is of the essence."
So what we need as guild leaders first and foremost is a PLAN. We need ask our guildies to be patient because a fix is on the way and this is the plan. Without this, we are swimming upstream.
Guild leaders WILL HELP YOU stop the bleeding. We just need something to go with....
so i wonder what the AD rate is at it was at 450 within 9 hrs i havnt loged in for a day or 2 but im betting its below 400 now making the old cost of $4000 for a char to be fully upgraded $5000, soon it might actualy be cheaper to buy directly for zen on stuff like refinement, but not till it hits $6000 or so a character. wonder what the login numbers look like, ive been playing champions and looking about for other games myself im sure im not the only one
It is very hard to post responses when it is very clear the only response many of you want to see is that the leadership changes will be reversed.
Many of you see AD as a fixed value so you see less AD generation as less value gained when in truth you could be gaining less AD at more value than before. Supply and demand is an economic law even when applied to currency and the rate of AD generation just could not be counterbalanced between all of the leadership farming by bots and players alike. If the economy was healthy then we wouldn't have been sitting at 500:1 AD:Zen for nearly two years.
It reached a point where creating AD sinks to counteract the leadership farming would be exactly what many of you are calling this: detrimental to casual and new players. The economy was being completely offset by those with large farms and especially by the bots who sat and did nothing but farm leadership all day every day. You can't balance the economy with sinks to combat that AD revenue without making it unbearably hard on players who are new or do not want to manage leadership farms like a second job.
The old system was broken and it couldn't be fixed. My only complaint when I heard about this change was that it should have been done a long time ago.
People will have more AD than others due to the old system but that will balance out in time and is absolutely not a reason to cite the old broken as hell system to remain.
Bots will still exist but it will be far harder for them to create bots to grind game content than it will be for them to create account hopping leadership farms.
That doesn't mean it is perfect. The Community Team is not happy with the new Leadership Rewards to start and we definitely want AD to be generated more commonly for more in game activities. The best bit of feedback I collected from this thread was a player saying that he was forced to choose between running dungeons/skirmishes/pvp for AD or doing campaign missions for the one to two hours he had to play and I agree it that is a huge problem.
We are silent because many of you make it clear there is no common ground communication. It's hard to communicate and work together with people who make it clear the only thing they want to hear is 'the broken system is coming back.' The old system was broken and for most of the reasons advocates for it cite as the problem with the direction of the current changes.
The new system is not perfect. It needs tweaking and a lot of it and we are looking through threads such as this one to collect feedback for improvements like the example I provided earlier. If you want more two way communication you are going to have to step beyond the knee jerking 'we want the old system' and look towards what is truly wrong with this system.
I think you (if we are now phrasing responses as you), have made a significant mistake with this change.
Ok, you may have decided that Leadership had to be revised - the mistake was not taking more time and implementing a viable and realistic replacement.
There was no panic rush to do this, the current Leadership mechanisms have been with us - (the player base) for years. A few more weeks while you thought this through better wouldn't have resulted in the roof falling in. These bots already have their millions of AD after all.
The major and damaging error is not the Leadership change, although it was your system that the players where using - it is in the way you have poorly thought out any replacement for this, which is for many people, a significant change.
Now to the really worrying part of your communication: "many of you.......no common ground...."
That by itself indicates a complete breakdown between business and customer. That will have, is already having, a terrible effect on player participation and player feeling toward the company.
Unfortunately, this implementation of the Leadership change is only the latest negative that has been introduced.
The situation wasn't perfect before Mod 6, with long standing bugs left unresolved and the same for various class abilities. But that module really started the slide downwards, issues created by that module are still with the player base today. By itself, it created a really negative outlook with it's re-skinning of old zones, the removal of popular dungeons (still not returned).
And now on top of that we get this.
My biggest concern is not the change - that was bad enough. It is the rushed manner in which it has been introduced, which unfortunately continues a pattern of implementing change - then looking at the fall out.
That is an inherently incorrect way to operate.
It is no surprise therefore to find you have created a situation where there is no common ground.
The time to look at player feedback is not after a significant change, it is before. You should be involving the player base ahead of any major changes, engaging with them to work toward mutually agreeable alternatives ----- then you implement.
What the player base has seen recently is the opposite of this good practice.
We have experienced an ignoring of feedback prior to module introductions, an ignoring of feedback prior to patch implementations. An apparently dictatorial approach to the player base.
No common ground?
No wonder.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
1. Cryptic never could foresee that people would be loyal and roll alts. Even since pre-alpha the attitudes were "Ahhh people will play for two weeks, quit for a while, come back later". So good people just played the game the way it was intended and it hurt the bottom line.
2. Botters. But not just AD bots. ALL EXPLOITERS have cost Cryptic. Blaming just AD botting was simply terribly misleading. Exploiters already have a plan to strike it rich, and will fine tune within a few days.
Guilds like Tyrs have many guildies with 5, 10 15 alts.. easy. These are all honest players that do not exploit. Many are paying customers with over TWO + YEARS of play.
To ask players to go from 5-10 alts (a matter of pride and accomplishment for many) to 1 or 2 characters after 2+ years is terribly defeating.
This is an IDEA ON PAPER that has gone horribly wrong in motion. Its more than a catch 22, it is a perfect storm.
Solutions are many though, and Cryptic has a CHANCE to make this right.
So, HOW does Cryptic get this game back on track? Well the way you get ANY game back on track... there needs to be a GAME PLAN. And it needs to be announced asap, because to use a real estate term.... "time is of the essence."
So what we need as guild leaders first and foremost is a PLAN. We need ask our guildies to be patient because a fix is on the way and this is the plan. Without this, we are swimming upstream.
Guild leaders WILL HELP YOU stop the bleeding. We just need something to go with....
I am begining to believe that they don't even have a solid plan.
It is very hard to post responses when it is very clear the only response many of you want to see is that the leadership changes will be reversed.
Many of you see AD as a fixed value so you see less AD generation as less value gained when in truth you could be gaining less AD at more value than before. Supply and demand is an economic law even when applied to currency and the rate of AD generation just could not be counterbalanced between all of the leadership farming by bots and players alike. If the economy was healthy then we wouldn't have been sitting at 500:1 AD:Zen for nearly two years.
It reached a point where creating AD sinks to counteract the leadership farming would be exactly what many of you are calling this: detrimental to casual and new players. The economy was being completely offset by those with large farms and especially by the bots who sat and did nothing but farm leadership all day every day. You can't balance the economy with sinks to combat that AD revenue without making it unbearably hard on players who are new or do not want to manage leadership farms like a second job.
The old system was broken and it couldn't be fixed. My only complaint when I heard about this change was that it should have been done a long time ago.
People will have more AD than others due to the old system but that will balance out in time and is absolutely not a reason to cite the old broken as hell system to remain.
Bots will still exist but it will be far harder for them to create bots to grind game content than it will be for them to create account hopping leadership farms.
That doesn't mean it is perfect. The Community Team is not happy with the new Leadership Rewards to start and we definitely want AD to be generated more commonly for more in game activities. The best bit of feedback I collected from this thread was a player saying that he was forced to choose between running dungeons/skirmishes/pvp for AD or doing campaign missions for the one to two hours he had to play and I agree it that is a huge problem.
We are silent because many of you make it clear there is no common ground communication. It's hard to communicate and work together with people who make it clear the only thing they want to hear is 'the broken system is coming back.' The old system was broken and for most of the reasons advocates for it cite as the problem with the direction of the current changes.
The new system is not perfect. It needs tweaking and a lot of it and we are looking through threads such as this one to collect feedback for improvements like the example I provided earlier. If you want more two way communication you are going to have to step beyond the knee jerking 'we want the old system' and look towards what is truly wrong with this system.
I think you (if we are now phrasing responses as you), have made a significant mistake with this change.
Ok, you may have decided that Leadership had to be revised - the mistake was not taking more time and implementing a viable and realistic replacement.
There was no panic rush to do this, the current Leadership mechanisms have been with us - (the player base) for years. A few more weeks while you thought this through better wouldn't have resulted in the roof falling in. These bots already have their millions of AD after all.
The major and damaging error is not the Leadership change, although it was your system that the players where using - it is in the way you have poorly thought out any replacement for this, which is for many people, a significant change.
Now to the really worrying part of your communication: "many of you.......no common ground...."
That by itself indicates a complete breakdown between business and customer. That will have, is already having, a terrible effect on player participation and player feeling toward the company.
Unfortunately, this implementation of the Leadership change is only the latest negative that has been introduced.
The situation wasn't perfect before Mod 6, with long standing bugs left unresolved and the same for various class abilities. But that module really started the slide downwards, issues created by that module are still with the player base today. By itself, it created a really negative outlook with it's re-skinning of old zones, the removal of popular dungeons (still not returned).
And now on top of that we get this.
My biggest concern is not the change - that was bad enough. It is the rushed manner in which it has been introduced, which unfortunately continues a pattern of implementing change - then looking at the fall out.
That is an inherently incorrect way to operate.
It is no surprise therefore to find you have created a situation where there is no common ground.
The time to look at player feedback is not after a significant change, it is before. You should be involving the player base ahead of any major changes, engaging with them to work toward mutually agreeable alternatives ----- then you implement.
What the player base has seen recently is the opposite of this good practice.
We have experienced an ignoring of feedback prior to module introductions, an ignoring of feedback prior to patch implementations. An apparently dictatorial approach to the player base.
No common ground?
No wonder.
THIS!^ THIS!^ we need a like button here so devs know which comments are most reflective of the player bases' feelings.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
I used to make over 100k per day with 6 chars before the nerf to leadership. Had plenty of time to pick and choose which part of the game I wanted to play each day. Somedays I felt like PvP. Others, dungeons and skirmishes. And others, Sharandar and Dread Ring.
After two days of trying things out, I can max out 1 char (24k) and a few more runs on other chars, but I that's doing only AD dungeons, skirmishes and pvp. I don't have time to run anything else. I don't make anywhere near what I was making.
It's nice to see the exchange active again, but as pointed out earlier, the price of GMoPs and CWs make leveling out of reach now. It's going to take way too long to level everything on my main char, and then my alts, and then my guild hall. And everything is buggy, laggy, and old content that I've played over and over again for the past 2 years (since open Beta).
It's really disappointing to see so many things that I invested many hours to acquire just arbitrarily removed from game.
So I disagree with the OP of this post....until Cryptic fixes the bugs, fixes the lag on their servers (Stronghold was especially hard to play today) and bring in new content that's good!
So I've run dailies for Sh + WOD yesterday on 6 chars, got time left for 2 epics after = got maybe 5k from invokes and maybe 12k from the runs (salvage included). Now I don't really have a life, but maybe I should cut some on sleeping if I want ads? Or forget donating anything to SH and just do dungeons whole day? They are more interesting for sure, we have such a variety of them and it's not like I've seen them all that many times already...
I've made about 50k per day using only three character (one level 70, two level 60s) and just invoking on a level 30-something. It's not so bad. And that was with relatively minimal playtime added to my usual routine of farming for gear with my level 70. That's like 350k per week for just playing the game. I think that's just fine.
When I commented on this in PE, I got a bunch of people telling me I was lying. Clearly those people haven't just gone out and tried playing the game to earn AD. Too many people reacted to this change by just sitting around complaining rather than exploring how to generate AD now.
And this actually is an increase in my daily AD income compared to before (I had no leadership army, and actually no characters with max leadership).
This confuses me. You keep saying that the people that are complaining aren't giving enough efforts in, but you won't even put in the effort to detail your numbers.
what details do you want I said 8 char 2 runs each plus salvage that's all I did what more info do you need?
ok let me chart it out char 1 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 2 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 3 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 4 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 5 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 6 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 7 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 8 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot
day two see day 1
end of day 2 transferred all ad to main char got total logged out for the day went to fourms made post with results and as I stated it took about 4 hours to do all 8 chars which left me no time to do any of my campaign dailes
explain, dungeon level, key cost.
...and 4hour playing them via queue or guild premade or any premade.
..just want know if this content is easy farm... oh, maybe they remove it then, :* .
I've made about 50k per day using only three character (one level 70, two level 60s) and just invoking on a level 30-something. It's not so bad. And that was with relatively minimal playtime added to my usual routine of farming for gear with my level 70. That's like 350k per week for just playing the game. I think that's just fine.
When I commented on this in PE, I got a bunch of people telling me I was lying. Clearly those people haven't just gone out and tried playing the game to earn AD. Too many people reacted to this change by just sitting around complaining rather than exploring how to generate AD now.
And this actually is an increase in my daily AD income compared to before (I had no leadership army, and actually no characters with max leadership).
This confuses me. You keep saying that the people that are complaining aren't giving enough efforts in, but you won't even put in the effort to detail your numbers.
what details do you want I said 8 char 2 runs each plus salvage that's all I did what more info do you need?
ok let me chart it out char 1 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 2 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 3 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 4 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 5 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 6 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 7 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot char 8 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot
day two see day 1
end of day 2 transferred all ad to main char got total logged out for the day went to fourms made post with results and as I stated it took about 4 hours to do all 8 chars which left me no time to do any of my campaign dailes
explain, dungeon level, key cost.
...and 4hour playing them via queue or guild premade or any premade.
..just want know if this content is easy farm... oh, maybe they remove it then, :* .
He is probably VIP. Bottom line is, he has 8 characters that can run Epic, hence average players can not relate to the OP.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
I used to make over 100k per day with 6 chars before the nerf to leadership. Had plenty of time to pick and choose which part of the game I wanted to play each day. Somedays I felt like PvP. Others, dungeons and skirmishes. And others, Sharandar and Dread Ring.
After two days of trying things out, I can max out 1 char (24k) and a few more runs on other chars, but I that's doing only AD dungeons, skirmishes and pvp. I don't have time to run anything else. I don't make anywhere near what I was making.
It's nice to see the exchange active again, but as pointed out earlier, the price of GMoPs and CWs make leveling out of reach now. It's going to take way too long to level everything on my main char, and then my alts, and then my guild hall. And everything is buggy, laggy, and old content that I've played over and over again for the past 2 years (since open Beta).
It's really disappointing to see so many things that I invested many hours to acquire just arbitrarily removed from game.
So I disagree with the OP of this post....until Cryptic fixes the bugs, fixes the lag on their servers (Stronghold was especially hard to play today) and bring in new content that's good!
Pretty much this.
I had 5 toons doing Leadership at lvl 25 and I was doing okay before the change. Now I am making AD from invoking alone as I don't like being forced to run dungeons, skirmishes and pvp every day. I am in a guild and we do plenty of each of those but I don't have the time nor do I feel like going through all the effort to play each of those 5 toons every day doing the same content over and over to make anything close to what I was making before the game doing what I wanted to do, not what I am being forced to do.
I run the DR lair and Tower of Celadaine every day on 3 toons, along with the Shar daily. Then I do the Tyranny of Dragons campaign on my latest alt as I am working on the boons. I may or may not have time to do the Well of Dragons dailies. Not a single AD given for playing the game because I didn't play it how YOU want us to play it. How about awarding AD for the solo player pls?
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
did't have to quit my job as I said did't play more then 4 hours a day and only ran 2 dungens across my 8 char between the salvage and the daily reward was more then enough ad.
I fear most of you are just not trying to earn it and are suffering from the give me like little kids do give me this give me that please I don't want a job just give it to me lol.
Comments
When I commented on this in PE, I got a bunch of people telling me I was lying. Clearly those people haven't just gone out and tried playing the game to earn AD. Too many people reacted to this change by just sitting around complaining rather than exploring how to generate AD now.
And this actually is an increase in my daily AD income compared to before (I had no leadership army, and actually no characters with max leadership).
NW-DHNVMMGVJ Dragons horde part one.
http://youtu.be/0KbqTWeJqxc
NW-DHNVMMGVJ Dragons horde part one.
http://youtu.be/0KbqTWeJqxc
With limited time on hand due to real life (you know, some of us are adults right?) I, as many others have already stated, used the low leadership income to make long term goals - and even though the income was low, it was an income. Whenever I have had time, I have played the different aspects of the game, to increase the income a little.
Now, you have just gone "If you have a life, and cannot spend hours playing this bugged game daily, or do not want to overload your credit card; Bugger off".
And whilst I am pointing towards the game being bugged; Did you ever consider, revisiting the rewards for the leadership tasks, and the time they take, when you decided to remove AD from 'em? I mean, seriously....some of 'em are just downright silly now.
Oh, and could you actually bother to fix the broken-for-months invocation?
DO NOT DONATE. DO NOT PLAYING. We can "vote with feet" only.
ok let me chart it out
char 1 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot
char 2 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot
char 3 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot
char 4 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot
char 5 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot
char 6 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot
char 7 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot
char 8 qued for dungen finished dungen then queed for second dungen finished salvaged loot
day two see day 1
end of day 2 transferred all ad to main char got total logged out for the day went to fourms made post with results and as I stated it took about 4 hours to do all 8 chars which left me no time to do any of my campaign dailes
NW-DHNVMMGVJ Dragons horde part one.
http://youtu.be/0KbqTWeJqxc
Now if there is a bug (and that wouldn't surprise me) I can also imagine that some people are having a hard time getting any reasonable amount of AD, but the truth is I happened to be looking right at Lostmauth as the AD dropped and so it was chance that I got it at all, so I also find it likely that people are just not getting the AD.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
The new "system" is just ripping out a big chunk of the game with promises of improvement "later". This happened with the dungeons, and months later we still have no dungeons. So is it going to be months until we get an actual new system or are we going to be stuck with an economy more broken than it was before.
Leadership farms were a crutch that never should've been in the game in the first place, but it's the crutch that was given to us. They can't just knock it out from under our feet and gives us absolutely nothing in return, because we aren't going to just sit and crawl around on our hands and knees hoping for the best. Because when was the last time we got anything close to the best?
If all you hear from us is "we want the broken system back" then there really is no point in communicating. Especially when this all started with the complete bald faced lie of combating bots. Who'd want to talk with a bunch of liars?
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
You know...the most important thing in a game is to make the player feel in control. Professions capable of generating AD was just that: players were able to set a goal and work towards it slow and steady. You also had the power to do whatever you wanted and still get rewarded for playing your way.
All these changes do is slap the player in the face and say "Nope, you're going to play OUR way whether you like it or not".
It's not having less AD, it's about not being able to play ANY of the (little) content besides the 6 dungeons, 4 skirmishes and broken PvP the game has and get any sensible progression towards that. When I looked up NWO reviews before starting to play, I saw that one of the many flaws was "too many currencies". I was intrigued by that, because I figured it would lead to players having to be smart, and balance them out for profit and fun. Instead, what I found was that 99% of the currencies in the game (Including GOLD) were nigh useless for pretty much everything, and hardly if ever convertable to others. The game's so-called "economy" is out of whack, because of a single currency making collecting any other a moot point, and making obtaining the few that are actually worth collecting a chore to repeat at infinitum.
And that is not making the player feel in control. That's the exact opposite: puppet-stringing the player into only doing certain actions and deny them any form of progression if they "stray" from this path. The amount of control a player has is pretty much the same as Pac-Man in this point: You can decide how you move and little more.
1. Cryptic never could foresee that people would be loyal and roll alts. Even since pre-alpha the attitudes were "Ahhh people will play for two weeks, quit for a while, come back later". So good people just played the game the way it was intended and it hurt the bottom line.
2. Botters. But not just AD bots. ALL EXPLOITERS have cost Cryptic. Blaming just AD botting was simply terribly misleading. Exploiters already have a plan to strike it rich, and will fine tune within a few days.
Guilds like Tyrs have many guildies with 5, 10 15 alts.. easy. These are all honest players that do not exploit. Many are paying customers with over TWO + YEARS of play.
To ask players to go from 5-10 alts (a matter of pride and accomplishment for many) to 1 or 2 characters after 2+ years is terribly defeating.
This is an IDEA ON PAPER that has gone horribly wrong in motion. Its more than a catch 22, it is a perfect storm.
Solutions are many though, and Cryptic has a CHANCE to make this right.
So, HOW does Cryptic get this game back on track? Well the way you get ANY game back on track... there needs to be a GAME PLAN. And it needs to be announced asap, because to use a real estate term.... "time is of the essence."
So what we need as guild leaders first and foremost is a PLAN. We need ask our guildies to be patient because a fix is on the way and this is the plan. Without this, we are swimming upstream.
Guild leaders WILL HELP YOU stop the bleeding. We just need something to go with....
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
wonder what the login numbers look like, ive been playing champions and looking about for other games myself im sure im not the only one
Ok, you may have decided that Leadership had to be revised - the mistake was not taking more time and implementing a viable and realistic replacement.
There was no panic rush to do this, the current Leadership mechanisms have been with us - (the player base) for years. A few more weeks while you thought this through better wouldn't have resulted in the roof falling in. These bots already have their millions of AD after all.
The major and damaging error is not the Leadership change, although it was your system that the players where using - it is in the way you have poorly thought out any replacement for this, which is for many people, a significant change.
Now to the really worrying part of your communication:
"many of you.......no common ground...."
That by itself indicates a complete breakdown between business and customer. That will have, is already having, a terrible effect on player participation and player feeling toward the company.
Unfortunately, this implementation of the Leadership change is only the latest negative that has been introduced.
The situation wasn't perfect before Mod 6, with long standing bugs left unresolved and the same for various class abilities.
But that module really started the slide downwards, issues created by that module are still with the player base today.
By itself, it created a really negative outlook with it's re-skinning of old zones, the removal of popular dungeons (still not returned).
And now on top of that we get this.
My biggest concern is not the change - that was bad enough. It is the rushed manner in which it has been introduced, which unfortunately continues a pattern of implementing change - then looking at the fall out.
That is an inherently incorrect way to operate.
It is no surprise therefore to find you have created a situation where there is no common ground.
The time to look at player feedback is not after a significant change, it is before.
You should be involving the player base ahead of any major changes, engaging with them to work toward mutually agreeable alternatives ----- then you implement.
What the player base has seen recently is the opposite of this good practice.
We have experienced an ignoring of feedback prior to module introductions, an ignoring of feedback prior to patch implementations.
An apparently dictatorial approach to the player base.
No common ground?
No wonder.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
After two days of trying things out, I can max out 1 char (24k) and a few more runs on other chars, but I that's doing only AD dungeons, skirmishes and pvp. I don't have time to run anything else. I don't make anywhere near what I was making.
It's nice to see the exchange active again, but as pointed out earlier, the price of GMoPs and CWs make leveling out of reach now. It's going to take way too long to level everything on my main char, and then my alts, and then my guild hall. And everything is buggy, laggy, and old content that I've played over and over again for the past 2 years (since open Beta).
It's really disappointing to see so many things that I invested many hours to acquire just arbitrarily removed from game.
So I disagree with the OP of this post....until Cryptic fixes the bugs, fixes the lag on their servers (Stronghold was especially hard to play today) and bring in new content that's good!
To sum it up: fun with profit... NOT.
...and 4hour playing them via queue or guild premade or any premade.
..just want know if this content is easy farm... oh, maybe they remove it then, :* .
I had 5 toons doing Leadership at lvl 25 and I was doing okay before the change. Now I am making AD from invoking alone as I don't like being forced to run dungeons, skirmishes and pvp every day. I am in a guild and we do plenty of each of those but I don't have the time nor do I feel like going through all the effort to play each of those 5 toons every day doing the same content over and over to make anything close to what I was making before the game doing what I wanted to do, not what I am being forced to do.
I run the DR lair and Tower of Celadaine every day on 3 toons, along with the Shar daily. Then I do the Tyranny of Dragons campaign on my latest alt as I am working on the boons. I may or may not have time to do the Well of Dragons dailies. Not a single AD given for playing the game because I didn't play it how YOU want us to play it. How about awarding AD for the solo player pls?
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.