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Astral Diamond Changes

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  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    Darnit, my long post is going to be skipped over by people because it's at the end of the previous page! Noooooooo
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    You can make more AD by running dungeons or skirmishes, how?

    Many players did the math, I tried this BS for two days and it is a joke. You dont even get the promised 3k RAD for your first skirmish. Even if their numbers would be correct, without dungeon/skirmish hour the RAD you can get are insignificant, compared to the prices they have and RAD earned before, without leadership.

    Where in the world should a guild, regardless of the number of members or money spent get the +500 MILLION AD, to build up their stronghold. You could buy several cars for the kind of money needed, to max your guilds stronghold.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • grim4152grim4152 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    screw them boycott time, show them by not logging in for a week or mont that you wont stand for constant nerfing and now this leadership move when im sure 99.5 percent of players woulod not agree to. Guilds having hard enough time with the insane requirments of the wealth drain called stronghold. I refuse to put any more donations in their coffers. I urge everyone to take a month off i will be startting tomorrow. Lets see what their graphs and how happy they are about fighting bots. Almost everything since mod 6 was a big mistake, havent heard good news in long time.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Lesse... at maximum exchange rate, AD is worth 100 dollars per 5 million, so 500 million would be worth 10000 dollars. You could definitely buy several lemons for that, but I don't know what the quality of these rustbuckets is going to be.

    Honestly though, this shows what's fundamentally wrong with the dev team's idea of how this game works. They want time = money, but it's historically been true that the amount of money you have to pay to get time out of the game is just too much. Instead of adjusting player AD values, maybe they should have lowered zen shop prices.
  • teatewteatew Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 61 Arc User

    Teatew, believe me, I share your frustration. But don't post while in the heat of rage. When you make direct attacks on a personal level your post will get deleted.

    Go ahead and vent all you want, but don't make it personal. Keep it to the issue at hand and the decisions and choices made, which are indeed hard to swallow.

    Your little roleplay was pretty fun though.

    I really did believe in this game, I even got several of my co-workers to play, they enjoyed the game too. 2 of them even gave them money for game packs one of the guy loves unicorns and thought it was awesome to ride around on one. Another loved the weapons and the armored horse you get from the pack I bought so he bought that back too. Long story short, this game was great, it could still be great if they do some major PR. They need to come out and apologize for this hasty remove AD leadership patch. They need to treat all customers (even the ones that didn't pay) as people and not some random number.

    It wouldn't be crazy to say they need to opening up leadership weekend and give x10 ad in leadership for this up coming weekend and change the times from 1 day down to 1 hour. I know that's crazy talk and impossible to believe, just like it would be crazy talk and unbelieve to make a profession that takes the LONGEST to level up and makes it completely worthless over a coffee break meeting.

  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited September 2015
    It is very hard to post responses when it is very clear the only response many of you want to see is that the leadership changes will be reversed.

    Many of you see AD as a fixed value so you see less AD generation as less value gained when in truth you could be gaining less AD at more value than before. Supply and demand is an economic law even when applied to currency and the rate of AD generation just could not be counterbalanced between all of the leadership farming by bots and players alike. If the economy was healthy then we wouldn't have been sitting at 500:1 AD:Zen for nearly two years.

    It reached a point where creating AD sinks to counteract the leadership farming would be exactly what many of you are calling this: detrimental to casual and new players. The economy was being completely offset by those with large farms and especially by the bots who sat and did nothing but farm leadership all day every day. You can't balance the economy with sinks to combat that AD revenue without making it unbearably hard on players who are new or do not want to manage leadership farms like a second job.

    The old system was broken and it couldn't be fixed. My only complaint when I heard about this change was that it should have been done a long time ago.

    People will have more AD than others due to the old system but that will balance out in time and is absolutely not a reason to cite the old broken as hell system to remain.

    Bots will still exist but it will be far harder for them to create bots to grind game content than it will be for them to create account hopping leadership farms.

    That doesn't mean it is perfect. The Community Team is not happy with the new Leadership Rewards to start and we definitely want AD to be generated more commonly for more in game activities. The best bit of feedback I collected from this thread was a player saying that he was forced to choose between running dungeons/skirmishes/pvp for AD or doing campaign missions for the one to two hours he had to play and I agree it that is a huge problem.


    We are silent because many of you make it clear there is no common ground communication. It's hard to communicate and work together with people who make it clear the only thing they want to hear is 'the broken system is coming back.' The old system was broken and for most of the reasons advocates for it cite as the problem with the direction of the current changes.

    The new system is not perfect. It needs tweaking and a lot of it and we are looking through threads such as this one to collect feedback for improvements like the example I provided earlier. If you want more two way communication you are going to have to step beyond the knee jerking 'we want the old system' and look towards what is truly wrong with this system.

  • davidsibdavidsib Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    My first post, most of the time I just read.

    This new way of obtaining rad pretty well sux.

    5 characters on 2 accounts. My leadership prof. were fairly new and I was making 4-9k a char. per day when I just logged in and did leadership tasks.

    On day's when I played and normally did only the daily dungeon and leadership my chars. made 9 - 16k a day.

    Today I only ran dungeons, CC to be correct in the normal queue. Only have 1 char at 70 so most days I don't have time to run dungeons twice a day but the results were not good. Best char got 6749 RAD, the others that an twice got 5792 and 3286. What a joke. 2 dungeon runs and I get 3286 and by mistake I opened the chest during the 2nd run so my net on that char is 686 RAD since the key cost 2500 AD, I won't make that mistake again.

    Chests do not contain rad, on the 2nd run that character initially had 1750 rad but after stepping over the boss it went to 1875.

    They better figure out how to fix this because it doesn't work this way.


  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User

    Bots will still exist but it will be far harder for them to create bots to grind game content than it will be for them to create account hopping leadership farms.

    Hate to say it, but bots can do just about anything in the game already. They will have little issue adapting without leadership and racking in large profits.

  • teatewteatew Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 61 Arc User
    Thank you for an official post, all I asked was for someone from the game to make some kind of statement and you have provided one.

    It is a shame that leadership happens to be the escape goat of the problem of the decline of the population but as I stated this game is good, it just sucks that me (others too) which have paid to support the game since we believe in it got the shaft.

    What would be fair is if the company figures out a fair balance, and wipes all accounts to start over with the new set of rules in place. I for one would really hate it since I have over 18 months of time on just my hunter. But it would be nice to have everyone start off on the same playing field. Currently the only ones that will really profit from this change are the ones that botted leadership as you pointed out. They farmed enough AD to be set for awhile and as you read, many of the people who were paying customers will switch to buying that AD from the bot farmers... So its really a lose lose for the company.

    Granted if they wiped the game and started fresh, many people will be so pissed and quit (but probably not as many that just quit over this leadership back breaking nerf).

    But you will gain more new players since everyone will be level 1 and starting fresh...

    For the record my Hunter has maxed all skills (I have all rank 4s in all my abilities) I also unlocked every boon and completed every quest offered to this date in the game. Im an achievement wh0r3 and Im even willing to start from square 1.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,385 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    This is what I see:

    - our ability to earn AD has been cut by perhaps 70-90%
    - fixed-price items that are absolutely required to progress are priced exactly the same

    To me, this is inexcusable. Changing leadership in this way is an earth-shaking change and demands due diligence. How else can we react except to ask, "why is this so?" Is it laziness? Is it a knee-jerk reaction to the present sad state of the NWO economy? Or, is it a calculated move to try to nudge -- in a rather forceful way -- players to buy Zen that they can convert to AD?

    The way that this was done does not engender trust. The utter lack of communication to valid questions and suspicions does not, either -- AT ALL. You do not do something like this to a playerbase and then initiate a complete communication blackout.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
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  • fishwhisperer#8695 fishwhisperer Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    I wish I could get my cash back for VIP status.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    I definitely agree that the problem is that, there are some very legitimate arguments to be made, but that the overall level of toxicity makes it impossible to have a productive conversation.
  • shadowgod244shadowgod244 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    they really are just ignoring the fanbase in favour of money grabbing which is a first class way to alienate the players, overnight the whole action house has crashed in value and is just bleeding out money and as a result the very few ways to make stable money (dread ring, WoD's) have literally been cut in half. people have offered a few different solutions to the bot problem such as capture but instead they choose the nuclear option as always (look at keys and coal wards) but this is a step to far you need to stick to the business model of the game being free to play and zen being a way of accelerating progression not have be the only way to get ahead.

    not only has the removal of daily AD task SEVERELY crippled new and old players alike but it also means that pvpers are unable to get the needed seals of triumph required to obtain armour to be able survive the mess that is PVP. it is blatant that the wont do anything about bots because it inflates numbers in game which make the game look more popular than it actually is.

    as for strongholds whilst is has brought new and old players alike into the game it has caused a wide gap between the small guilds who value community and the big players who just desire the newest weapons (still very annoyed about the stronghold weapons requiring rank 16 and not 8 as first stated) there are relativity simple fixes for this make the currencies scale to the amount of players you have so the more players you have the more you need, also have the appropriate currencies vouchers drop in the respective area (e.g VT gives dark vouchers).

    a possible fix for the current AD problem would be to reintroduce old content as it was with the need or pass system so we can get nice gear bought and sold on the AH like we used to with castle never that way you would appease the fanbase whilst introducing another viable way to make diamonds after all this is meant to be a free game.
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited September 2015
    ghoulz66 said:

    Bots will still exist but it will be far harder for them to create bots to grind game content than it will be for them to create account hopping leadership farms.

    Hate to say it, but bots can do just about anything in the game already. They will have little issue adapting without leadership and racking in large profits.

    That isn't what I meant.

    I meant, logically, what will generate more revenue in less time: creating a bot to hop between characters and accounts to set and collect leadership tasks or having a single character grind for AD.

    The obvious answer is that having one computer tied up to one character bot grinding for AD will generate far less than a bot hopping between hundreds of characters and/or accounts assignign set it and forget it leadership tasks.

    neither the developers or myself think bots will have a hard time programming things to do. The change will effect how much AD they can generate in a given amount of time. Bots won't stop. They just won't have it easy. Think of it like a speed limit drop from a thousand miles per hour to 60. They'll still bot but they won't make far more than any player could hope to generate as the botting that they will have to do will be time gated by in game activities instead of number of accounts/characters hopped to.
  • rollingonitrollingonit Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited September 2015

    Snip

    So, you are telling us now. They made this change, with no obvious plan of direction to balance it for legit players?

    "My only complaint when I heard about this change was that it should have been done a long time ago."
    I agree with this, and really I personally dont have a issue with this change in particular. If you read my posts its the 1 after another changes that came; not just this one alone. Terrible foresight.

    People in this thread and others are giving you suggestions. We've noticed that in many cases before they largely go ignored. The prior track record and lost trust is really what hurt you guys the most.




    We can pretend.
    Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
    Oh Wonder - Without You

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    - Dylan Thomas
  • lestylolestylo Member Posts: 11 Arc User

    It is very hard to post responses when it is very clear the only response many of you want to see is that the leadership changes will be reversed.

    Many of you see AD as a fixed value so you see less AD generation as less value gained when in truth you could be gaining less AD at more value than before. Supply and demand is an economic law even when applied to currency and the rate of AD generation just could not be counterbalanced between all of the leadership farming by bots and players alike. If the economy was healthy then we wouldn't have been sitting at 500:1 AD:Zen for nearly two years.

    It reached a point where creating AD sinks to counteract the leadership farming would be exactly what many of you are calling this: detrimental to casual and new players. The economy was being completely offset by those with large farms and especially by the bots who sat and did nothing but farm leadership all day every day. You can't balance the economy with sinks to combat that AD revenue without making it unbearably hard on players who are new or do not want to manage leadership farms like a second job.

    The old system was broken and it couldn't be fixed. My only complaint when I heard about this change was that it should have been done a long time ago.

    People will have more AD than others due to the old system but that will balance out in time and is absolutely not a reason to cite the old broken as hell system to remain.

    Bots will still exist but it will be far harder for them to create bots to grind game content than it will be for them to create account hopping leadership farms.

    That doesn't mean it is perfect. The Community Team is not happy with the new Leadership Rewards to start and we definitely want AD to be generated more commonly for more in game activities. The best bit of feedback I collected from this thread was a player saying that he was forced to choose between running dungeons/skirmishes/pvp for AD or doing campaign missions for the one to two hours he had to play and I agree it that is a huge problem.


    We are silent because many of you make it clear there is no common ground communication. It's hard to communicate and work together with people who make it clear the only thing they want to hear is 'the broken system is coming back.' The old system was broken and for most of the reasons advocates for it cite as the problem with the direction of the current changes.

    The new system is not perfect. It needs tweaking and a lot of it and we are looking through threads such as this one to collect feedback for improvements like the example I provided earlier. If you want more two way communication you are going to have to step beyond the knee jerking 'we want the old system' and look towards what is truly wrong with this system.

    Last time I checked the devs and everyone else involved are not children. If they cannot deal with harsh criticisms then they should find another line of work. Many of us actually work in professions where we deal with people and deal with these kind of issues and we do not send out people to cover for us and imply we are fragile flowers in hopes people will go easy. That's nonsense. Words on a screen that are actually pretty tame aren't an issue. Yes people are ready to leave because why shouldn't they? This is one of MANY issues that are grinding their gears. But somehow we're at fault for being upset and not being empathetic when next to none has been shown by the staff. I mean really now.

    The plan they pulled off is heavy-handed and devoid of common sense and is very much in line with actions from Cryptic in other games where such actions negatively affected those communities. I mean really now, how exactly did they think the community was going to take this? What exactly did they think would happen in the long run? How exactly, among the sea of other issues they have before them (foundry issues, pvp issues, stronghold issues, pve balance issues, so on and so on), did they think people would deal with such a change? At the end of the day they did not think this through and it shows and will continue to do so with a dwindling population, less income, bad PR, and outright hate from former players let alone the lack of trust many remaining players may have on top of the ones whose willingness to stay will be shaken by seeing many of their friends go. This is utter mismanagement and it is appalling. I mean, come on.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User

    ghoulz66 said:

    Bots will still exist but it will be far harder for them to create bots to grind game content than it will be for them to create account hopping leadership farms.

    Hate to say it, but bots can do just about anything in the game already. They will have little issue adapting without leadership and racking in large profits.

    neither the developers or myself think bots will have a hard time programming things to do. The change will effect how much AD they can generate in a given amount of time. Bots won't stop. They just won't have it easy. Think of it like a speed limit drop from a thousand miles per hour to 60. They'll still bot but they won't make far more than any player could hope to generate as the botting that they will have to do will be time gated by in game activities instead of number of accounts/characters hopped to.
    There's also the bots farming ghost stories and other areas endlessly piling up god knows how much loot to sell. If it weren't profitable they wouldn't be doing it still. Now how can they let them abuse that for so long without notice?

    That to me sounds pretty bloody easy.

  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator

    Snip

    And this level of word twisting is why you guys don't get responses.

    I am saying that everything was done with the intention to balance it for legitmate players as the old system did everything to penalize legitimate players as they could NEVER hope to compete the AD generation of bots and players who had large leadership farms.

    The change is far from finalized but the one sure thing is that the old system was beyond broken.
  • rollingonitrollingonit Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited September 2015

    Snip

    And this level of word twisting is why you guys don't get responses.

    I am saying that everything was done with the intention to balance it for legitmate players as the old system did everything to penalize legitimate players as they could NEVER hope to compete the AD generation of bots and players who had large leadership farms.

    The change is far from finalized but the one sure thing is that the old system was beyond broken.
    Terrible foresight, Ill just leave it at that. I dont have to twist your words, the actions show through.

    Anyways, I just hope you guys figure it out.

    We can pretend.
    Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
    Oh Wonder - Without You

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    - Dylan Thomas
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited September 2015
    ghoulz66 said:

    snip

    Easy but not as fast.
    Nowhere near the same speed. Additionally that is not generating AD, it is generating RP.

    All of this is not harsh criticism: it is simply logically incorrect comparisons.
  • untamedengineer#6733 untamedengineer Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 100 Arc User

    It is very hard to post responses when it is very clear the only response many of you want to see is that the leadership changes will be reversed.

    Many of you see AD as a fixed value so you see less AD generation as less value gained when in truth you could be gaining less AD at more value than before. Supply and demand is an economic law even when applied to currency and the rate of AD generation just could not be counterbalanced between all of the leadership farming by bots and players alike. If the economy was healthy then we wouldn't have been sitting at 500:1 AD:Zen for nearly two years.

    It reached a point where creating AD sinks to counteract the leadership farming would be exactly what many of you are calling this: detrimental to casual and new players. The economy was being completely offset by those with large farms and especially by the bots who sat and did nothing but farm leadership all day every day. You can't balance the economy with sinks to combat that AD revenue without making it unbearably hard on players who are new or do not want to manage leadership farms like a second job.

    The old system was broken and it couldn't be fixed. My only complaint when I heard about this change was that it should have been done a long time ago.

    People will have more AD than others due to the old system but that will balance out in time and is absolutely not a reason to cite the old broken as hell system to remain.

    Bots will still exist but it will be far harder for them to create bots to grind game content than it will be for them to create account hopping leadership farms.

    That doesn't mean it is perfect. The Community Team is not happy with the new Leadership Rewards to start and we definitely want AD to be generated more commonly for more in game activities. The best bit of feedback I collected from this thread was a player saying that he was forced to choose between running dungeons/skirmishes/pvp for AD or doing campaign missions for the one to two hours he had to play and I agree it that is a huge problem.


    We are silent because many of you make it clear there is no common ground communication. It's hard to communicate and work together with people who make it clear the only thing they want to hear is 'the broken system is coming back.' The old system was broken and for most of the reasons advocates for it cite as the problem with the direction of the current changes.

    The new system is not perfect. It needs tweaking and a lot of it and we are looking through threads such as this one to collect feedback for improvements like the example I provided earlier. If you want more two way communication you are going to have to step beyond the knee jerking 'we want the old system' and look towards what is truly wrong with this system.

    We know that the past system is not and will never be restored.. and to be honest that is alright. What most of us are upset about is the simple fact in which it was implemented with very little thought and an absolutely horrid execution.

    The players (and maybe even the current development team) were not that ones who designed the game so that each account was capable of having 50 characters and who made trading between characters on the same account possible. Yet most played the game as it was designed without exploiting known loopholes, setting up automating scripts, and the many other similar structures that were built into the game.

    We the players invested both our time and money into the game enjoying it how we felt it was most rewarding (playing the AH for profit, working our way through crafting, adventuring, fighting fellow players, etc.) Now the game that many of us have played since beta has been radically changed limiting our ability to enjoy and advance our characters in the game in what most feel was a meaningful way.

    The implementation as previously mentioned was carried out with a dull axe when what was needed was a scalpel and input from the player. As others have noted, many alternatives were offered by players... all were met by silence. To me and probably many, silence equates to one thing.. that the company does not care about to players (and or the game enough) to ask for constructive comments from the players and a way forward for the betterment of the game's health.

    Would it have been so hard to have a post stating that 'Here is a problem we see in the game, what our your thoughts to help the game improve for its long term health'.

    In either way, what was done is done.. the past way of being able to afford to advance our characters is no more and will not be coming back... but so to is the trust and confidence of many of the player base. That is the problem that the game must now face and try to cope with if it hopes to be around for long.

    So.. even though it is late.. how about post saying here is the problem that the game is facing.. how do you the players see a constructive way forward?
  • untamedengineer#6733 untamedengineer Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 100 Arc User
    As to your comment about many seeing AD as a fixed value, that is because the cost needed by many to advance their characters are fixed by the Wonderous Bazaar. It would be no different if the AD value was held the same and the cost of MoPs increased 10 fold.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited September 2015

    ghoulz66 said:

    snip

    Easy but not as fast.
    Nowhere near the same speed. Additionally that is not generating AD, it is generating RP.

    All of this is not harsh criticism: it is simply logically incorrect comparisons.
    They're finding a lot more than just RP in the nodes.

    Besides, it's fair for a botter to mass farm then sell loot for ADs but players get squat for actually playing the game?
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,385 Arc User
    edited September 2015

    The change is far from finalized but the one sure thing is that the old system was beyond broken.

    (emphasis mine)

    I should hope so, and here is my problem with how this was handled. Only the negative portion comes first, with no announcement as to how legitimate players will me made whole. Out income is cut by at least half, yet fixed-price items remain the same. Then, over the course of four days, we are left twisting in the wind as to how to reconcile the two. I appreciate your responses today, but even those don't answer the question: "how will these changes be altered so as to not screw over legitimate players?" It's a valid question, because, at 8:52 PM EDT 9/16/2015 it DOES.

    The secondary question, legitimate due to the lack of communication, is also valid: "why only the nerf and no compensation?" Is it due to laziness, incompetence, or is it deliberate? Once again, we are left twisting int he wind for four days with no answer. This change isn't a minor tweak, and a response is warranted.

    I want to give the devs the benefit of the doubt and attribute it to lack of due diligence -- I really do, but that also leaves me disappointed. I'm only glad that they don't work where I work. I want our aircraft staying in the air, and I'm sure that our servicemen do as well.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
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    Playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
  • sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    edited September 2015



    The change is far from finalized but the one sure thing is that the old system was beyond broken.

    And that right there is the largest issue people have with it. If the changes arn't finalized, why the need to rush in with half finished fixes?

    Wouldn't it of been better to hold off on the leadership changes until they had a complete fix, rather then a promise that more will come in time? It would of gone a long way to reduce the venom here.

    You cant honestly blame the community for feeling angry and betrayed for this half finished mess. There was no reason to rush into this, the problem was years in the making. A few more weeks would of changed nothing. And might of actually allowed Cryptic to implement a finalized, complete fix, rather then a hasty nerf and empty promises.
  • aratecharatech Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User
    Another First Dungeon Run. ToS. AD upon completion: 2300. So much for that 3K bonus. I feel like an idiot for getting VIP.

    I wouldn't have minded the change so much, if there were AD rewards for dailies or something like that. Heck, as I've said multiple times, make them part of a Vigilance Quest. Might give us a reason to actually want to do them. Because I've got one Beta toon, and two that are less than two months old. And due to this pesky thing called a "job" I don't have the time to run TOS, Abberant Assault, or what have you, for six hours a day to try and hit the quota across three toons. It's just not going to happen. And given that GMOPs aren't coming down in price as I can see any time soon, they're basically never going to advance.

  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited September 2015

    I definitely agree that the problem is that, there are some very legitimate arguments to be made, but that the overall level of toxicity makes it impossible to have a productive conversation.

    Indeed.

    I mean I can explain everything but I made one post and have had my words twisted completely to the point I end up backtracking and arguing against statements I never said to begin with.

    Valid arguments are being considered but two way communication requires people to stop twisting words and comparing apples to oranges.

    Botting RP by farming nodes and such in ghost stories is not the same as botting AD. Certainly it needs to and is being addressed but it really is not relevant to the botting and farming of Leadership which generated AD at a rate which players could not hope to compete with. This is why the Zen Exchange has been capped for nearly two years and is why these changes are being made.

    Yes they could just keep making more AD sinks but the more sinks they add the more hurt people who play the game instead of farm leadership become. As such the necessary act is to switch rewarding NW Farmville to rewarding playing Neverwinter.
  • shurato2099shurato2099 Member Posts: 171 Arc User

    It is very hard to post responses when it is very clear the only response many of you want to see is that the leadership changes will be reversed.

    Many of you see AD as a fixed value so you see less AD generation as less value gained when in truth you could be gaining less AD at more value than before. Supply and demand is an economic law even when applied to currency and the rate of AD generation just could not be counterbalanced between all of the leadership farming by bots and players alike. If the economy was healthy then we wouldn't have been sitting at 500:1 AD:Zen for nearly two years.

    It reached a point where creating AD sinks to counteract the leadership farming would be exactly what many of you are calling this: detrimental to casual and new players. The economy was being completely offset by those with large farms and especially by the bots who sat and did nothing but farm leadership all day every day. You can't balance the economy with sinks to combat that AD revenue without making it unbearably hard on players who are new or do not want to manage leadership farms like a second job.

    The old system was broken and it couldn't be fixed. My only complaint when I heard about this change was that it should have been done a long time ago.

    People will have more AD than others due to the old system but that will balance out in time and is absolutely not a reason to cite the old broken as hell system to remain.

    Bots will still exist but it will be far harder for them to create bots to grind game content than it will be for them to create account hopping leadership farms.

    That doesn't mean it is perfect. The Community Team is not happy with the new Leadership Rewards to start and we definitely want AD to be generated more commonly for more in game activities. The best bit of feedback I collected from this thread was a player saying that he was forced to choose between running dungeons/skirmishes/pvp for AD or doing campaign missions for the one to two hours he had to play and I agree it that is a huge problem.


    We are silent because many of you make it clear there is no common ground communication. It's hard to communicate and work together with people who make it clear the only thing they want to hear is 'the broken system is coming back.' The old system was broken and for most of the reasons advocates for it cite as the problem with the direction of the current changes.

    The new system is not perfect. It needs tweaking and a lot of it and we are looking through threads such as this one to collect feedback for improvements like the example I provided earlier. If you want more two way communication you are going to have to step beyond the knee jerking 'we want the old system' and look towards what is truly wrong with this system.

    The changes are making it hard on players in any event and as to "second jobs" I suggest you look at some of the copious examples of just how long it will take to hit AD cap on even a single character. THAT is a second job.

    Bots can, and do, nearly everything a live player can do and they do it 24/7. Now they're just going to camp dungeons, skirmishes and PvP matches while continuing to farm RP. Between that and the huge bankrolls they've almost certainly got stashed away becoming even more valuable, they're not losing a thing while those of us who made 'legitimate' use of Leadership have lost one of our most reliable sources of in-game income. I don't have anything resembling BiS gear so I'd be kicked from Dungeon runs faster than I coud blink, PvP is even worse and that leaves Skirmishes.

    As to the reason for your silence ... I call that rank cowardice. Sure many people just want the old system back regardless of the supposed reasons for its removal but a great many have also been putting forth ideas for offsetting its loss and/or ways to hit the botters and goldsellers where they live. Hiding your face because some people are being reactionary is to do a disservice to those that ARE open to discussion. Your silence isn't helping matters because those who are being unreasonable on this matter are the very same people who will point to that silence and use it as tacit proof of any conspiracy theory they may happen to subscribe to. An actual discussion is needed, not silence.
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