spending the free time doing dungeons and playing the game? isn't that what people do on most MMOs?
Sure, if you want to be literal.
I'm pretty sure most games I've played have had a reasonable difficulty curve, where rewards and progression are commensurate to the content though.
Do you think that running normal Temple of the Spider forty or fifty times a day - which would still likely fall short of most peoples' Leadership income - is an enjoyable and productive use of leisure time?
I agree with that, I jsut wanted to point out that the problem is not that we have to run dungeons and skirmishes to progress, but the amount of times we have to do it to earn enough AD to pay for the items required to progress, instead of having the dungeons directly reward us with those items needed.
On top of that, they are capping dungeon/ skirmish income at 7200 AD each. That would hopefully double to 14.4 on 2xAD events, which is far below what I made in the last event (400k). So, they're trying to stabillize the income, and making no attempts on fixing the expense side of the economy.
Opera summary : whales are gods in the game, formers exploiters are gods in the game, bots continue cashing thousands of dollars at the expense of the company and the player who occasionally helps because not part of much of the community " leeching " will be nothing than just contributors will be forced to " live " with all the trash up! there is a clear reversal of values that industry takes account of MMOs. after all no one more dimme on my part.
... I am very close to believe too, that they want to get out of contract and this is a "mild" way to get rid of us and being able to shut down the servers or keep them only alive like a mummy as a decoy, only with a select few on board.
Even the worst manager on earth would now, he is killing the game slowly, but surely, i have no doubts here. ...
Pretty much this, it's hard to imagine a developer unintentially making sooooo many horrible decisions that punish players... But hey, what do I know, maybe they really are that out of touch with what the players actually want to see?
well i hope there is some revamping of the profession system as it is virtually useless to level to 25 in each of your character usefull professions besides making the appropriate underwear, after that well you wasted 3 weeks of 2-3 times logging into professions to get only 2 items. maybe some thing to help strongholds or rp for weapons for weaponsmithing,,,,,,,,, lol im no expert at coding or game economics........... but something to make those professions useful again.......... please keep in mind............ i enjoy crafting in game......its one of the more intriguing parts
I highly doubt they will revamp the proffessions. Not right away. Sadly they forget who they replaced the last time the devs did something silly and the players rebelled, left, or other. They tend to forget they work for us really, we keep them employed by paying or playing or what not. AD will be useless unless you drop cash. Those are the elitists and they do not keep the game going.. sadly if nothing is done.. so is this game..
I checked out the changes that were made to leadership on preview and the devs have to give something in return for the loss of AD....level 25 leadership is a hefty time investment and there has to be at least some benefit to leveling it that high. Also I don't understand the point of gaining profession xp from max level tasks...
You guys just destroyed the last 2 years of me working my butt off to get Leadership maxxed on all 9 of my toons. There has to be a better answer other than destroying this profession.
I JUST spent $100 REAL MONEY to buy Heroes on the AH not knowing this change was coming. Guess what you just STOLE MY $100. Guess that explains why Heroes are less than 1/2 the going rate.
Last Cryptic/Perfect World game I ever play.
You smack every REAL customer with every change you make.
0
flambridgeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 191Arc User
The time of Leadership tasks need be lowred, or it dont make sense.
From economy, I dont know. Maybe it unbalance AD/ZEN again (for AD side this time). Maybe the prieces of Leadership comps will fall with comet. And the prices of Marks will be raise again. I dont know, I dont know.
I haven't seen this yet in the 36+ pages of ranting - one obvious source of AD no one seems to mention that is totally lacking - getting AD as a reward from ALL quests - from the very beginning of the game to hitting level 70. Not everyone has time to sink into more than one character to even come close to earning enough to advance. I have two of every class so I can try each paragon without having to respec. I did not create them to be Leadership drones but that's pretty much how more than half of them ended up - it COSTS TOO DAMN MUCH to get any decent gear, or to refine artifacts. The reason I mention adding AD rewards to ALL quests is due to a very simple fact: once you hit level 60(70 now) you never finished the main storyline quests and moved on to end game content BECAUSE THERE IS NO POINT TO CONTINUING! Every quest should have an AD reward and a RP reward from the start of the game to the end of the storyline. ALL dungeon chests and skirmish chests should have AD and RP rewards.
ALL reward chests should have a chance to drop minor/lesser/normal/greater marks of potency, power, union, and stability.
You want to stop botting?! Give the players a F@$#ING WAY TO EARN THE STUFF THEY NEED THEMSELVES INSTEAD OF PAYING A BOT TO DO IT FOR THEM!
Edit: scale the percentage chance of getting the greater marks as the character levels, so by the time you are at level 69 you may only have a 10% chance of getting a a mark of any kind, it is weighted so at low levels there is a minuscule chance for a greater mark but a great chance of a minor mark, and as you level, the same 10% chance of getting a mark - but the chance of a certain type scales accordingly like so: 10% chance reward for any quest low levels would get the below table (ballpark) 80% minor 10% lesser 7% normal (blue) 3% greater
lower/midlevel 20% minor 60% lesser 15% normal 5% greater
mid/high level 5% minor 20% lesser 77% normal 5% greater
high level 5% minor 10% lesser 70% normal 15% greater
I am trying to be constructive - flame on.
2nd edit: why not have a chance to get zen items from reward chests also? like epic mounts, dyes, bags etc?
Could someone please explain to me why all the effort I put into leadership so I could earn ad, trade it into zen, and purchase product was a bad thing? It's hard to believe this was the best way to fight bots when leadership and gateway were a design decision from day 1. Again I say it, how does this compare to the other games cryptic runs. How is nwo's economy working differently?
They can't do that, since leveling up is not a problem for botters, it only takes time, and bots can run 24/7. Therefore they could benefit extremely from an increased drop chance for anything.
And isn't this change against botters? Or to rephrase it, they can't accept any real improvement for players, that botters could exploit too.
I'm not against an increased loot chance for some goodies on the way to the max level, but they will probably ignore or refuse any idea/suggestion, that doesn't increase their income through the ZEN shop (hello AD boosters next week...) as well.
Just look at this thread, any other company with that kind of massive negative feedback from their players on their hands, would have stepped in and either scraped the whole thing, and come up with something else, or at least offered some insight on the big plans they have in mind for the whole issue. Not to mention, they might have also come up with some real compensation, when the removal of an important ingame element is really necessary.
Could someone please explain to me why all the effort I put into leadership so I could earn ad, trade it into zen, and purchase product was a bad thing? It's hard to believe this was the best way to fight bots when leadership and gateway were a design decision from day 1. Again I say it, how does this compare to the other games cryptic runs. How is nwo's economy working differently?
Same thing of Keys change. Is it a great modification in economy, and exist risk of failure.
So since I had to change my password I thought I'd make my first post ever to the forums.... SO this is great IF you have the time to spend two hours a day running all these various things to get your diamonds... I don't... Ive seen it posted in a few places... If you guys are gonna make us run dallies, these need to drop diamonds... not many but something, Sharandar ... Dread Ring.... IWD .... TOD ... ok problem is of course that these are only level 70 areas now, what about the lower players? End of zone mini lairs?? Something...
Also if i understand this correctly all the timed events are being removed, during pvp o clock we get 5% glory... so umm thats just gone as well??
With an account limit for refining AD, it wouldn't matter where the rAD would come from, they could just threw in rAD with any daily quest. Even the daily quests from the druid in PE could reward you with rAD, or the quests in the Elemental Evil areas. People have to grind through them to level anyway, so the Devs could at least make it worth it.
GMoPs used yo drop in VT from the first boss, but I haven't seen one since to BtA loot change
but that's only a slim chance and you have to roll for it among 5 players - the odds of actually getting a GMOP may as well be zero for all intents and purposes.
we are also looking at ways for the solo player to earn this time currency. We are evaluating content like Heroic Encounters and Campaigns as likely places to make adjustments, while watching the above changes to make sure they're having the desired effect on group play.
I hope you do this quickly. I usually only do some dailies and stronghold dailies and talk a bunch with friends. Im not going to earn more ad with this; Ill not get much for a while.
if they want to nerf bots just put in the same fixes they put in to archery HR. No one will want to play the game once they realize their characters do 1/4th of the dps they use to do. or better yet change the amount of AD you can refine from 24k to 24ad
0
alphastreamMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 209Arc User
I would love for the game to be all about playing and not about the Gateway. Professions are a huge waste of time when I would rather play. BUT, at the same time, I am earning about 23,000 RAD per day via Leadership and I have invested a ton of time to get it there. I don't play PvP and I find Dungeons to be long and boring. Where is my RAD supposed to come from??? I can deal with 2 skirmishes, but that gets me only 3,000 RAD. Unless you bring down the daily RAD to AD rate and bring down the AD cost of most things, I won't be able to afford anything.
I want to do things like HEs around the Stronghold, daily quests in zones, and the like. Why are these not considered to be part of playing the game?
Learn more about Dungeons & Dragons tabletop at Alphastream.org.
Opera summary : whales are gods in the game, formers exploiters are gods in the game, bots continue cashing thousands of dollars at the expense of the company and the player who occasionally helps because not part of much of the community " leeching " will be nothing than just contributors will be forced to " live " with all the trash up! there is a clear reversal of values that industry takes account of MMOs. after all no one more dimme on my part.
Exactly!
I saw a female toon today in Sharandar, who's owner did the same exploiting on the same spot, where i have reported her 8 months ago and of course the toon was nearly BiS. I don't know, shall i cry or laugh, it is so pathetic. Now if changes go live, these persons will laugh out loud, cause they have a maxed or nearly maxed out toon and can go on the old route, namely exploit Sharandar further.
We on the other hand, we paying and decent customers are shown the door to leave or will have no way to develop our toons, that pitiful AD, we shall get after change won't be enough for anything. Is the world standing now upside down or what? I think it is. We are punished and those exploiters, who got rich on our back are now rewarded. They will easily adopt or don't have to adapt at all, they can exploit Sharandar, Icespire Peak, Ghost Stories, etc. further.
Grats Mr. Schicoff on the worst decision!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Despite what some people have been commenting on, prices will not go down in a meaningful way. Coalescent wards, preservation wards, and marks of potency are sold through the cash shop or Wonderous Bazaar. [...]
...and what do you think the ZEN-price will do when the AD volume in circulation slowly gets depleted and not refilled by all those LShip earnings?
My bet: It'll fall...
...which then will also lead to less ZEN purchase, probably. So at some point market equilibrum will establish itself. I bet it'll be way below 500 AD per ZEN. Unless too many whales migrate on to tastier plankton, that is.
Not sure if I'm reading your comment correctly... I'll take that your question was in earnest.
First of all, it's important to note that the state of the ZAX (zen exchange) does not equal the overall state of the economy in Neverwinter. Yes, it's a small part of it, but what isn't immediately apparent to the "things will drop in price" people is that a high exchange rate is actually better for the players. Cryptic, and only Cryptic, tightly controls the actual economic factors that have an impact on the game. They want the ZAX to have a lower conversion rate, too.
Here is what I think will happen after the change. Zen will become cheaper to convert from AD by using the ZAX. Coal wards/pres wards will be "cheaper" than they currently are using that method. While this looks good on the surface, our overall buying power will be considerably lower than it is now due to the rate at which AD can possibly be earned.
Without BoE drops that can be sold from PVE content, I suspect most will live off of what they can refine from RAD (rough astral diamonds) after the change which caps at 24K per day. I have 500K RAD built up on my 2 year old main, so why play it now? The benefit, and probably only benefit to players, will be that we will no longer have to suffer the inconvenience of waiting a few days to convert AD into Zen. Players that use only one toon will feel the limitations of 24K a day, so at some point they will need to gear up a second AD hungry toon to deal with the stock of RAD they've built up from "playing the game" on their main character.
Keep in mind that buying a Coal ward (1000 zen/$10 USD) or whatever from the cash shop will not lower in actual price. The conversion of real money to Zen will still yield $1 USD to 100 zen no matter where the current state of the economy resides. The prices of zen store items will remain the same for straight cash, but the AD you'll need for items that require being purchased with that currency will take up that perceived AD to Zen slack to Cryptic's coffers due to the new rarity of AD. If Zen sells for 500:1 now and goes for 250:1 at some later date, then GMOPs (100K AD without r12 VIP, 86K from the AH) have suddenly become twice as expensive at that point.
Now ask yourself, what currency do you need more of to gear up a character in this game - Coalescent wards or GMOPs and you'll see why Cryptic is making this move. Also consider the cost of companion/mount upgrades, cubes of augmentation, transmutes, boon costs, and auction house purchases goes up exponentially in relation to the Zen/AD conversion rate. In essence, what's happening here is that we're going from a limited need yet very expensive set of items that must be purchased with Zen into a much more plentiful and soon to be very very much more expensive set of items that must be purchased with AD.
Trickle down effects to AD gain will be felt from the leadership nerf in other areas, as well. It will become completely unnecessary to unlock all 9 profession spots. That means no more AH flipping for items that sold very well in the past to unlock Alchemy in particular, but also profession pack workers and tools in all areas. Who cares if Platesmithing takes a few extra weeks to rank up now? Why do it all when the shirt/pant crafters have become so numerous that they have to sell below manufacturing just to get them out of their inventory? Sort of makes sense they're giving away keys to VIPers, doesn't it? My guess is that this plan to eliminate AD gain has been in place since Mod 3 and we're just at the point of execution that they've been working towards all this time.
Comments
I'm pretty sure most games I've played have had a reasonable difficulty curve, where rewards and progression are commensurate to the content though.
Do you think that running normal Temple of the Spider forty or fifty times a day - which would still likely fall short of most peoples' Leadership income - is an enjoyable and productive use of leisure time?
But hey, what do I know, maybe they really are that out of touch with what the players actually want to see?
Last Cryptic/Perfect World game I ever play.
You smack every REAL customer with every change you make.
From economy, I dont know. Maybe it unbalance AD/ZEN again (for AD side this time).
Maybe the prieces of Leadership comps will fall with comet. And the prices of Marks will be raise again.
I dont know, I dont know.
This is much drastic for me.
The reason I mention adding AD rewards to ALL quests is due to a very simple fact: once you hit level 60(70 now) you never finished the main storyline quests and moved on to end game content BECAUSE THERE IS NO POINT TO CONTINUING! Every quest should have an AD reward and a RP reward from the start of the game to the end of the storyline. ALL dungeon chests and skirmish chests should have AD and RP rewards.
ALL reward chests should have a chance to drop minor/lesser/normal/greater marks of potency, power, union, and stability.
You want to stop botting?! Give the players a F@$#ING WAY TO EARN THE STUFF THEY NEED THEMSELVES INSTEAD OF PAYING A BOT TO DO IT FOR THEM!
Edit: scale the percentage chance of getting the greater marks as the character levels, so by the time you are at level 69 you may only have a 10% chance of getting a a mark of any kind, it is weighted so at low levels there is a minuscule chance for a greater mark but a great chance of a minor mark, and as you level, the same 10% chance of getting a mark - but the chance of a certain type scales accordingly like so:
10% chance reward for any quest
low levels would get the below table (ballpark)
80% minor
10% lesser
7% normal (blue)
3% greater
lower/midlevel
20% minor
60% lesser
15% normal
5% greater
mid/high level
5% minor
20% lesser
77% normal
5% greater
high level
5% minor
10% lesser
70% normal
15% greater
I am trying to be constructive - flame on.
2nd edit: why not have a chance to get zen items from reward chests also? like epic mounts, dyes, bags etc?
And isn't this change against botters?
Or to rephrase it, they can't accept any real improvement for players, that botters could exploit too.
I'm not against an increased loot chance for some goodies on the way to the max level, but they will probably ignore or refuse any idea/suggestion, that doesn't increase their income through the ZEN shop (hello AD boosters next week...) as well.
Just look at this thread, any other company with that kind of massive negative feedback from their players on their hands, would have stepped in and either scraped the whole thing, and come up with something else, or at least offered some insight on the big plans they have in mind for the whole issue.
Not to mention, they might have also come up with some real compensation, when the removal of an important ingame element is really necessary.
But nothing here.
Is it a great modification in economy, and exist risk of failure.
SO this is great IF you have the time to spend two hours a day running all these various things to get your diamonds... I don't...
Ive seen it posted in a few places... If you guys are gonna make us run dallies, these need to drop diamonds... not many but something, Sharandar ... Dread Ring.... IWD .... TOD ... ok problem is of course that these are only level 70 areas now, what about the lower players?
End of zone mini lairs?? Something...
Also if i understand this correctly all the timed events are being removed, during pvp o clock we get 5% glory... so umm thats just gone as well??
Even the daily quests from the druid in PE could reward you with rAD, or the quests in the Elemental Evil areas. People have to grind through them to level anyway, so the Devs could at least make it worth it.
I want to do things like HEs around the Stronghold, daily quests in zones, and the like. Why are these not considered to be part of playing the game?
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I saw a female toon today in Sharandar, who's owner did the same exploiting on the same spot, where i have reported her 8 months ago and of course the toon was nearly BiS. I don't know, shall i cry or laugh, it is so pathetic. Now if changes go live, these persons will laugh out loud, cause they have a maxed or nearly maxed out toon and can go on the old route, namely exploit Sharandar further.
We on the other hand, we paying and decent customers are shown the door to leave or will have no way to develop our toons, that pitiful AD, we shall get after change won't be enough for anything. Is the world standing now upside down or what? I think it is. We are punished and those exploiters, who got rich on our back are now rewarded. They will easily adopt or don't have to adapt at all, they can exploit Sharandar, Icespire Peak, Ghost Stories, etc. further.
Grats Mr. Schicoff on the worst decision!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
First of all, it's important to note that the state of the ZAX (zen exchange) does not equal the overall state of the economy in Neverwinter. Yes, it's a small part of it, but what isn't immediately apparent to the "things will drop in price" people is that a high exchange rate is actually better for the players. Cryptic, and only Cryptic, tightly controls the actual economic factors that have an impact on the game. They want the ZAX to have a lower conversion rate, too.
Here is what I think will happen after the change. Zen will become cheaper to convert from AD by using the ZAX. Coal wards/pres wards will be "cheaper" than they currently are using that method. While this looks good on the surface, our overall buying power will be considerably lower than it is now due to the rate at which AD can possibly be earned.
Without BoE drops that can be sold from PVE content, I suspect most will live off of what they can refine from RAD (rough astral diamonds) after the change which caps at 24K per day. I have 500K RAD built up on my 2 year old main, so why play it now? The benefit, and probably only benefit to players, will be that we will no longer have to suffer the inconvenience of waiting a few days to convert AD into Zen. Players that use only one toon will feel the limitations of 24K a day, so at some point they will need to gear up a second AD hungry toon to deal with the stock of RAD they've built up from "playing the game" on their main character.
Keep in mind that buying a Coal ward (1000 zen/$10 USD) or whatever from the cash shop will not lower in actual price. The conversion of real money to Zen will still yield $1 USD to 100 zen no matter where the current state of the economy resides. The prices of zen store items will remain the same for straight cash, but the AD you'll need for items that require being purchased with that currency will take up that perceived AD to Zen slack to Cryptic's coffers due to the new rarity of AD. If Zen sells for 500:1 now and goes for 250:1 at some later date, then GMOPs (100K AD without r12 VIP, 86K from the AH) have suddenly become twice as expensive at that point.
Now ask yourself, what currency do you need more of to gear up a character in this game - Coalescent wards or GMOPs and you'll see why Cryptic is making this move. Also consider the cost of companion/mount upgrades, cubes of augmentation, transmutes, boon costs, and auction house purchases goes up exponentially in relation to the Zen/AD conversion rate. In essence, what's happening here is that we're going from a limited need yet very expensive set of items that must be purchased with Zen into a much more plentiful and soon to be very very much more expensive set of items that must be purchased with AD.
Trickle down effects to AD gain will be felt from the leadership nerf in other areas, as well. It will become completely unnecessary to unlock all 9 profession spots. That means no more AH flipping for items that sold very well in the past to unlock Alchemy in particular, but also profession pack workers and tools in all areas. Who cares if Platesmithing takes a few extra weeks to rank up now? Why do it all when the shirt/pant crafters have become so numerous that they have to sell below manufacturing just to get them out of their inventory? Sort of makes sense they're giving away keys to VIPers, doesn't it? My guess is that this plan to eliminate AD gain has been in place since Mod 3 and we're just at the point of execution that they've been working towards all this time.