VIP benefits depreciates Lathander set bonus

beckylunatic · August 2015

Whatever criticisms you want to make about how injuries are inflicted, or whether or not it's easy to afford enough injury kits, I think we can all agree that immunity to injuries is a pretty nice convenience.

Immunity to injuries was kind of a big flippin' deal to people who had collected a full Lathander set. Yes, the group buff if you get raised is still nice, but it's really situational too, since it requires that you either run SF or be in a position where someone can pick you up.

It might be worth considering to take a look at the bonus on this set again, and see if something can be added to make it once again as special as the difficulty in acquiring the artifact warrants.

(One idea - immunity to res sickness)

iandarksword · August 2015

Where is the evidence they are nerfing that particular bonus? I can't find it in any patch notes from Preview...

beckylunatic · August 2015

One of the perks of a VIP rank is immunity to injuries, which makes this set bonus irrelevant if you're also buying VIP.

iandarksword · August 2015

So the bonus isn't exclusive to the set anymore is what you're saying? Or are you saying they are removing the bonus entirely from the set itself?

beckylunatic · August 2015

Isn't exclusive, and can effectively be purchased.

iandarksword · August 2015

Well then, I won't have to hand out as many kits in dungeons as I have been. The immunity to resurrect sickness certainly is a good suggestion though.

oliboyph · August 2015

Or maybe they could buff up lathander set bonus. It is very hard to complete after all.

kreatyve · August 2015

I am very sad about this as well.

I do hope they do something different and maybe better with the Lathander set bonus. I don't know if I should hang on to my set after I get a new one or use it to refine whatever new set I decide to go with.

theycallmetomu · August 2015

The introduction of new gear is not a nerf to old gear. The introduction of the VIP system is not a nerf to the Lathander set. The Lathander set's existing features being less useful with the addition of new gameplay elements is simply the result of evolving game play.

lirithiel · August 2015

theycallmetomu wrote: »

The introduction of new gear is not a nerf to old gear. The introduction of the VIP system is not a nerf to the Lathander set. The Lathander set's existing features being less useful with the addition of new gameplay elements is simply the result of evolving game play.

So we should take this as gospel because you say so? LOL no it's definitely a nerf to the Lathander set any way you slice it.

theycallmetomu · August 2015

Only if you use an arbitrarily ridiculous definition of the word "nerf." When artifact weapons were released, that wasn't a nerf to T1 and T2 weapons. Those weapons became irrelevant, sure, but they weren't reduced in power or effectiveness; they are just no longer useful due to new options that become available.

To nerf something is to adjust its stats or how it works in the gameplay environment. You can sort-of-kind-of-maybe argue that this is a "stealth nerf" to the Lathander set, in the way that decreasing enemy HP might be considered a stealth nerf to an effect that deals damage as a percentage of the target's HP. But this is nonsensical sophistry, designed to come to the conclusion that something that does not change the functionality of the item set itself is any way is a nerf.

If you call the VIP pass a nerf to the Lathander set, then every module ever that has gear even marginally better than existing gear is a nerf to all existing gear. This is such a ridiculously broad definition of the word "nerf" that it loses all meaning.

pando83 · August 2015

That bonus is not the main bonus of lathander set. Main bonus is also the HP resurrection at 50% which, with new HP pools being much bigger than a potion, is a good thing. For PvP too, after changes to negation and ArP interaction, i believe SF+Lathander set could now be again a very good survivability option.

Also, keep in mind: to keep that bonus active you need to first reach rank 7 = 7 months of active VIP = 7000 zen total, then after that you need, if i got it right, to keep it active or it deactivates after 30 days.
So basically, correct me if i'm wrong, you need to keep paying 1000 zen= 500k AD converted each month for 7 months. After 7 months you get rank 7 which grants the immunity for the next 30 days, after which VIP expires and you need to re-activate it.

Lathander set is cheaper, 100% active all the time plus the resurrection healing bonus.

Much better.

jaydenomega812 · August 2015

You know...I forgot the lathander's set did have that one last little line you are immune from injuries. Well I'll be....guess the set is getting a nerf then after all from the VIP stuff. -.- How amusing.

My DC disapproves!

The bonuses from the greater cloak and greater belt are still useful to her though, but it would make sense to do something else with the 3 piece set bonus now though since it's going to be redundant.

I like the rez sickness immunity idea. I honestly haven't paid attention to if you get rez sickness when lathander's procs or not though. Doesn't seem like you should get rez sickness. Too something to consider is maybe including a defense/deflect bonus on resurrect to work like the recovery bonus does.

Or just change it altogether to a flat 10% defense and deflect for 10 seconds on resurrect bonus, dump the recovery, tone down the 50% heal to 35%, and add in the immunity to rez sickness for 5 minutes and give the whole thing an ITC of 10 minutes for each player it procs on (meaning player A dies he gets resurrect immediately and has to wait 10 minutes to be eligible again and player B dies 3 seconds after player A....player B gets resurrect immediately and has to wait 10 minutes while that 3 seconds of time lapsed player A's ITC is now at 9 minutes 57 seconds). That would be a nice 3 piece set bonus keeping within the confines of give and take.

azlanfox · August 2015

beckylunatic wrote: »

Whatever criticisms you want to make about how injuries are inflicted, or whether or not it's easy to afford enough injury kits, I think we can all agree that immunity to injuries is a pretty nice convenience.

Immunity to injuries was kind of a big flippin' deal to people who had collected a full Lathander set. Yes, the group buff if you get raised is still nice, but it's really situational too, since it requires that you either run SF or be in a position where someone can pick you up.

It might be worth considering to take a look at the bonus on this set again, and see if something can be added to make it once again as special as the difficulty in acquiring the artifact warrants.

(One idea - immunity to res sickness)

I don't remember cryptic caring about invalidating/depreciating/etc. anything in their game.

Also, what about those who choose not to buy that level of VIP or invest in VIP at all? Why should your status and those like you affect those who are not as endowed? Why not make changes to the VIP level instead to keep the Lathander set viable?

jaydenomega812 · August 2015

pando83 wrote: »

<snipped>

After 7 months you get rank 7 which grants the immunity for the next 30 days, after which VIP expires and you need to re-activate it.

Lathander set is cheaper, 100% active all the time plus the resurrection healing bonus.

Much better.

You have a valid point here no doubt. Still remains though for those that are VIP and have the Lathander set too...there sorta get a shaft versus 7 month still active VIP's without Lathander's.

darkstarcrash · August 2015

I might as well say "I never rush companion training, so I'm getting the shaft for rank 7-12 VIP! They should change it because I personally will not get value from it!"

The primary bonus on Lathander's set was rezzes giving a 50% healthbar heal for your entire team. That is still unique to the set.

oliboyph · August 2015

pando83 wrote: »

That bonus is not the main bonus of lathander set. Main bonus is also the HP resurrection at 50% which, with new HP pools being much bigger than a potion, is a good thing. For PvP too, after changes to negation and ArP interaction, i believe SF+Lathander set could now be again a very good survivability option.

Also, keep in mind: to keep that bonus active you need to first reach rank 7 = 7 months of active VIP = 7000 zen total, then after that you need, if i got it right, to keep it active or it deactivates after 30 days.
So basically, correct me if i'm wrong, you need to keep paying 1000 zen= 500k AD converted each month for 7 months. After 7 months you get rank 7 which grants the immunity for the next 30 days, after which VIP expires and you need to re-activate it.

Lathander set is cheaper, 100% active all the time plus the resurrection healing bonus.

Much better.

This is true, but still there is a redundancy. When having certain status renders another useless you really need to make some changes, no matter how small.

silence1x · August 2015

As a person that has never seen the Eye drop on any of my 6 daily lair toons (in two years), I have to say MEH to this

vordayn · August 2015

jaydenomega812 wrote: »

Or just change it altogether to a flat 10% defense and deflect for 10 seconds on resurrect bonus

I would second something like this, in addition to its current bonuses.

However, with the immunity to rez sickness, one of the boons from the Temple is a reduction in the duration of Revive Sickness (-30s at Rank 3, and -4min at Rank 10), which would devalue that boon for wearers of Lathander's cloak ... although that would free up another utility boon, so maybe it might be worth it ... hmm

I was thinking about getting a Transcendent SF (which has a cooldown of 75s), and with a 1min Revive sickness duration, my character could be tactically dying to heal everybody in tough situations.

theycallmetomu · August 2015

The Lathander set is still viable. The redundancy of two similar game mechanics does not justify giving the Lathander set a boost. Dungeons and Dragons has lots of historical instances like that. "Oh, you're DR 5/- from one class, and DR 4/- from another class? TOO BAD THEY DON'T STACK! What's that? Your race gives you fire resistance, but your prestige class gives you fire resistance? NOPE, NO STACKING FOR YOU!"

This is just how new gear works in games. New gear invalidates old gear. The fact that this time it's VIP passes instead of actual gear doesn't change that. I can't imagine why anyone would place any significant effort into complaining about this. It's like people are simply unhappy because they're special because they have their item set, and now people who are paying money (or using AD to buy zen, as is my case-though I'm only rank 3, so I'm not injury immune) are also special, so they're not special anymore.

It's like when a kid gets a birthday present, and the kid's siblings complain, so the parent gives the sibling a birthday present as well.

I mean, would a minor buff to the Lathander set be game breaking? Probably not. But this attitude of "waaah, how dare they nerf my set! just comes off as whiney entitlement. I mean, I don't know why I care-it doesn't affect me either way, so really I'm complaining about something when I have no skin in the game, but still. C'mon people. C'mon.

suicidalgodot · August 2015

I'd be all for adding in an additional perk to Lath set bonus, because a) it's already on the weak end of the set bonus spectrum, and b) its all on the defense/convenience side, as opposed to massive offensive buffs other sets contribute.

I'm all against nerfing the VIP bonus, though.

inyawayupdeep · August 2015

Beckylunatic is 100% correct on this, I have a TR with the set which was effectively nerfed once before by Mod 6's artifact upgrading process. The greater version of the set changed the stats bonuses to give Wisdom for no apparent reason.(I think the stats changed on the cloak and I think it came at the expense of Dex or Cha but server is down right now so I can't look it up), Wisdom is not that helpful for my TR so to me it was a big hit, I thought about changing the set then to something that gave better stats for my class but I had liked the set so much in the past, I couldn't bring myself to do it. I still love using it to resurrect team members in dungeons because it can be done from a long distance and resistance to injurys is also very helpful in the dungeons I run. it would be nice if you tried to compensate a little bit for what whats been done to it by giving it something extra to set it apart, keep the VIP the way it is it will be good for all, but the set is very rare it should remain something special.

thanks

instynctive · August 2015

What set bonus.. still haven't gotten the Eye to drop. *sadface*

:-)

colier · August 2015

To some it may be considered a nerf....to others that do not purchase the VIP option it will not!

VIP benefits depreciates Lathander set bonus

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