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Oathbound Paladin don't die.
luiztizo
Member Posts: 4 Arc User
Well, I'm revolted about OP, there are a lot of players who dont die, dont take damage and heal a huge amount of life every time when damaged, stay imune everytime using stamina for many time. And HR traper have a combo of skills rooting and stunning for infinite time. Is not possible have in this game a honest balance? I don't have fun playing NW more, cause everything is a mess, lag, economy and pvp!!
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the thing that does so much damage is bugged avalanche, paladin damage sucks. its only fair that class that cant kill anything cant be killed by anyone, or you want pala to die in 1v1, while still being unable to kill anything with their 10k hits from encounters and some 15k, if you are lucky, from only damage daily they have
get 2 cw or hr+tr on pala and hell die in notime , GF in some combinations works too
paladin is a tank, designed to take hits that have enough damage to kill 5 ppl and still have some left(like 550k from last boss in eToS), you really think a single player should hit through THAT ?
PS: I have all classes in my account all lvl 70!!
The majority of the time the paladin just sits on the node and stops fighting back and people give up trying to kill it because they just cant
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
2 roaming cws while you have nodes contested, paladins cant kill quite a few classes as long as they are played properly that can contest nodes against a pala. stuff a single pala or dc on a node and only gf/tr comp will be able to clear them, same might apply for a cw and tank GF, at bis lvl also feytouched GWF is really hard to kill, though im not BiS and dont know how this matchup plays out. perma should also be able to contest a node or 2. replacing 2 OP with 2 CW in your example can win
ofc if you split you team 2-2-1 you probably wont get far, but 1-1-1+2 roamers should be able to win, but then again its easier to whine on forums trying to get paladins nerfed to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
That's why they're impossible to kill, and thats why whenever you catch them in a CC chain they die quickly. Its also why Trickster Rogues with smoke bomb are able to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> all over them.
Trapper Hunter Rangers are able to constantly spam roots, which is why you find yourself perma dazed. The roots don't last a long time, nor does the daze. But being able to root infinitely means that you are basically infinitely dazed. The problem is that Trapper Hunter Rangers get so much cooldown reduction for free that they can literally use Encounters like at wills.
Fixes should be forthcoming, until then just grunt and bear it. Or stop playing. (That's what I did.)
If OP cannot buff/absorb dmg/heal for his team but for himself only, then I guess there would be less complains, but with a highly geared OP standing on one node, and people being unable to take them as well as anyone next to them down, that doesn't sound very fair...
Now OP are saying 'If you have this class and that class combined, then you can kill OP', and how are we going to expect having BOTH very specific classes available that are also Geared Enough to take down the OP...? (yes a 4K+ OP can survive 2~3 x 3k+ CW/TR/HR, no problem, unless you send more than half of your team (3 people+) otherwise there is no chance of killing the OP... oh and if the OP team has a DC or another OP.. then you can forget about killing him...) now, sending half of your team on an OP... what's going to happen to two other nodes... when there are 4 other ppl whacking 1~2 of your members... the result is very obvious...?
The problem is not as simple as not being able to take down OP 1 vs 1, the fact is you need to have the Right Class Combination that are Geared Enough and know what they are doing to have the chance to take down OP... and the chance of this in a pug team vsing a 4k OP is....? yea, we all know... again like said above, even if you have 5 players ganking on the OP, as long as there is a DC or OP right next to the one you are ganking... there is still no chance u r gonna kill him..... I think Dragon Bait's first 170 NCL DOM matches with only 2 death explains a lot....
Paladin is OP not just because how well they can survive, but also how ridiciously they make the people around them near invicible, and if there is a DC for the OP... you might as well forget about it..
True story is, last week there was a Premade vs Premade DOM from two Big PvP guilds, the players in the game consist of 4 OP, 3 DC, 3 DPS.... and guess what... that game lasted 1Hours 45 Minutes, almost nobody died in the game, and people only decided to call off after someone got disconnected by the server... I don't think anyone would think this kinda PvP is fun...? Its really a patience test, see who gets bored and decides to quit first....
And no, if that someone did not get disconnected, the game could last another few more hours....
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
DCs have a bugged mechanic as well - guess why you cant do anything to OP + DC combo?
P.S. Top 1000 players in NCL - just 148 OPs. Doesnt sound like a broken class
exactly, playing agains pala isnt fun, but that doesnt make it overpowered, playing against perma, feytouched gwf, control stacking cw that can push you every 5 sec, trapper and dc isnt fun either.
also paladin needs decent team to win, since you cant just run between nodes murdering everything in your path and carrying your team
yes paladins can contest forever, but to win contesting isnt enough, you need to be able to clear node and paladins cant do that against at least half of the classes. i wrote a topic explaining why there is a problem but it is easier just to ask for paladin nerfs than learning to play against them
want to test ? get 5cw vs 5paladins match its about 95% win chance for cw team
You clearly didnt fight me or some other paladin that i know..
ANd they are wrong, i am still protector and i'm doing well like it
Anyway, another blabla story about paladin
As far as i can see, top Tr die less than top paladin, this, is a true story.
LoL..ofc Burkaanc defending his class....and all OP ofc...
for example = how about take out stealth ability from TR ....theres a timer cd for 30s until you can stealth again?
or....reduce all dmg from GWF, GF....reduce CC ability from Control wiz? will they defended his/her class?
....zzzzzzzz
from casteth
Anyway, another blabla story about paladin.......
+1000..yea blabla..story again...
As far as i can see, top Tr die less than top paladin, this, is a true story.
TRUE...++++...
this thread is not going anywhere.....
into flame war....unconstructive thread...
please Mod look into this
Whenever a Paladin steps into a PvP match, one player on the other team is going to have the inevitable displeasure of having a little staring contest with him. If said Paladin is dressed in cotton wraps and toilet paper, and you are packing something BiS, you might as well just be beating on a training dummy.
Come to think of it, we don't have Tenacity dummies. OP would make good dummies. Alternative ways of having fun when fighting an OP includes;
/sit
/juggle
water balloons
Throne of the Lion
If I came to play PvP, I expect not to AFK for half the match on the domination node, watching 8 out of 10 players actually get to do it.
You're either brain dead or just bad player. You dont need to seen god knows how many players to kill enemy tank, because even one 2k item lvl CW can win that fight with repel spam. In worst case scenario you can make it a tie.
Playing against OP tank might be boring, not only for you but for the OP as well. Most of OP tanks would gladly trade some survivality for non buggy shift and GF burst, so we can 3-shot everyone instead of stare at them.
Pretty much this. I dont understand how people only say they won when you kill the enemy. 2k CW wins vs 4k OP in 1vs1 because of bleeding points. Only thing that needs a fix are bug exploits with OP/DC that make everybody in the game immortal, because of perma DP cast even under heavy cc fire
Only exception being that, playing as or against a TR and DC still involves actual "playing". Astral Shield has a downtime which gives you a sliver of hope to clear them, or some really good healer DC can still kill you or push you off the node. Fighting against a TR is a good game of hide and seek, 90% of the time ends up with you dead, but still... there is some "playing" involved.
Playing against a Paladin always quickly degenerate into a BRB moment. Just as soon as the OP realizes you're not fighting back, and it would still take him 10 minutes to clear your AFK <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, enough time to brew some coffee and a quick YouTube vid on the laptop.
I don't give a damn whether OP's personal strengths are balanced or not. I call <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on the fact that they are the most boring class, and they bring you down with them. Like those kids in highschool that nobody wanted to hang with, because they thrived in long awkward silence.
Idk who's Icypphish is and what does it have to do with this thread? If you're so afaird that enemy team will have Paly and your team wont have CW, then find one and queue with him. You can make a tie on the flag with Paly and win it on other flags.
Btw, if im so bad (page 5 in NLC atm with 2.5k itemlvl) then what does that make of the rest who are behind me?
lol have you even seen him play? he is near bis gwf who owns everyone and is in purple dragons. prob pretty high up on the ncl leaderboard also. you should think before you start talking <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. if hes such a bad player then 1v1 him WITHOUT a pally. pally's are op stop pretending its not just because you play it.
Yes, since when one player can hold off your entire team, something is really screwed up. Yes the queue does sometimes give slightly unfair matchups, but the 1 winning in 1v5 should not happen. Yeah it's a tank, ok I 've killed GF's before and they're not too hard if you know what you're doing, but when you're facing a DC and GF by yourself, you can't win. Pally is DC and GF in one character, and you can't kill off the DC first then the GF when it's one character.
I didnt judge his play style or character but what he wrote. His mindset of winnig the game only by killing others speak for itselfs. Anybody with some decent pvp experience will not waste his time trying to kill geared OP tank. They will either send a CW or tie on that one point and try to win elsewhere.
Only noobs spend several mins chasing OP tank and trying to kill him while enemy team is winning on 2 other points. I'd even say that OP tank add some depth to the game, because it often encourage entire team to rotate and switch abilities depending on enemy rotation.
Problems starts only when there's more than 1 tank and healer per team, but that's matchmaking issue.
As someone who has leveled a pally in pvp... this statement is pretty much true...
tab, tab, tab, banish, tab tab, templar's wrath, tab tab repeat...
My feelings though, pertain to pre level 70 pvp. I haven't tried level 70 pvp yet so I can't say that the game play is the same. Based on encountering pallys on my other toons at level 70 though... I'm very concerned that it is.
The sad thing is I'm equipped in greens and blues with no enchants. If I meet a fully geared pally with transcendent enchants, etc... he/she STILL can't kill me. The class is very very broken in pvp.
You are on page 5 with 2.5k item level, can survive against anyone. Of course you are happy. Try to do it with 2.5k item level GWF or SW then I will listen what you say.
Yeah, I'm sure this is the devs' mentality as well. They've known for some time that improving pvp balance would require an extensive overhaul and they're not going to bother with that (lack of resources).
Dev: "We know that there's no semblance of pvp class balance, but that's okay! It's team play anyways. If you don't have the right mix of classes for your team, well, keep queuing or pre-make! Certain classes can't be killed 1v1? That's okay too! Because they can't kill anyone either! (Or, you don't have to kill them because it's not death match pvp!). Some 1v1s are either lopsided (rock, paper, scissor) or result in a stalemate? That's okay too! Just read all of the points above!"
A few things to prove you obviously dont THINK before you TALK.
Team A - 2 OP, 1 DC, GWF, TR
Team B - 2 OP, 2 DC, 1 TR (1 DC is DPS)
(Most players in that game are within top 10 NCL page, a few were within first 3 pages, needless to say their gear and premade experience.) So where is your CW and how do you Repel in this fight, Mr. Brain Dead...?
Oh, now there is better, you quoted " In worst case scenario you can make it a tie." Oh yea, how do you end a game with a "Tie"? Are you a bad player or just someone that doesn't know what he's talking about....?
So now you assume my "Play Style" and "Mindset of Winning only by killing others" Did I say that, or where did you get that from...? Also, what makes you think anyone in the team was chasing after OP Tank? So you assume-after-assume but did not get one single thing right....?
Enough said, I only see someone that is not very smart but loves to assume things, Mr Brain-dead.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
1) fighting a paladin is boring only for dc and paladin, because no one will kill the other ( excepting sometime a paladin die )
2) paladin got more than 3 skill, dont even think we only use 3 of them
3)tab, tab, tab, banish, tab tab, templar's wrath, tab tab repeat... ok
but the other class will always use the same kind of rotation during a fight, it's not paladin's privilege
4) banish? on a pvp? come on..
5) if you don't wanna some tactic on an mmorpg, let me suggest to play some fps instead of it
6) Once again, if a paladin can hold an entire team, it means that the player are terrible bad player ( for non being able to kill him and for not going on the other points)
7) playing against a paladin degenerate into a BRB moment, if you are a dc or a paladin with egal gears, maybe, if not, you will have to fight for your life against a real player
8) i agree that we shouldnt be able to have 2 paladin in same team, last pvp i made ( true story, you like this sentence ), i fought :
- 2 dc + 2 gf + 1 gwf ( all bis )
Troll comp arent always made with paladin, so stop with this arguement, it's worth peanuts
It never ended because of maintenance but after 40 min it was 700 for them 600 for us
9) You are on page 5 with 2.5k , good for ya, im on page 2 and nobody can kill me 1 vs 1, it doesnt makes me feel like god ( like i was page 10 1 week ago), i just do my job, but i loose like everyone, and rank means absolutly nothing about the players
10) myth about immortality, again, if you know your char and have the right build, you can survive to a paladin, if 2 of your team know their char and have the right build, they can kill any paladin
11) i will say it again, Top Tr dies less than Top paladin, can tank ( in a different way ) an entire team too
12) i think that i will not say something wrong but, i made few pvp till a year, and i never saw anyone immortal excepting the one who goes off the map
13) what is wrong is not the paladin, but the matchmaking ( and some of you.)
A 2.5k OP can get killed by 3.5k+ CWs or bleed points against opressor CWs, yes.
The other guy wrote about a premade v premade fight between top PvP guilds. Their IL is most likely 3.5-4k, OP included. Their OPs are near to immortal. Even if you team up on them and get them to 30% HP with their heals, THP etc on CD after a few minutes, they wont die bc it is a premade fight and it most likely goes like this in TS: OP: 'they teamed up on me, need some help' Faithful DC: 'one second.' DC runs to OP, procs feat. OP: 'OK all dandy, see you in another 10 minutes.'
BTW, I had the same combo a few days ago, when I got qued with a PvP semipremade. Enemy had 2 DCs, OP etc. We fought for something like a hour and I got DCed, score was at ca. 700 for either team. I dont mind long fights. My best matches have been taking ca. 45 min, bc the teams were balanced and knew tactics, but to fight for more than an hour with no end in sight and the ony way to end it is, to hope for a DC, a team to quit or a player to take a bathroom break is no fun.
Protection Pally is broken. That temporary HP has to be an incorrect value.
Ya well I'll disagree with several points here because I guess I can make certain encounters work to my advantage situationally (i.e. banishment). Your point about every class using tab in a fight is valid, but consider the outrage if TR's could have a capstone that would replenish their encounters every time they pressed tab. Imagine the ITC rage? The problem here lies with the fact that the paladin can spam tab up to 3 times (I'm at level 66, I think it increases to 4 at 70?) and get the benefits of reducing cooldowns 3 times in a row.
And just because other classes (like HR's) are broken in a similar manner, doesn't mean that it's still valid for paladins to be broken as well as your argument is stating. This is a "2 wrongs don't make a right" maxim.
As far as the leaderboards are concerned. Pre-level 70 pvp means nothing to me as builds change once you get to 70. I assume you haven't gotten to 70 yet since you are on the leaderboard as well. I don't know what page someone is on has anything to do with this discussion as the difference between page 2 and 5 is a difference of 2 close matches against the right teams. Congrats I guess.
I do agree with several other points you made though, namely limiting comps in pvp and what its like facing off against another paladin.
This is matchmaking issue, not class balance problem. Also even if you tie on 3 flags, you still get points (depending on who's controling the point) but in a lot slower rate, like 1 point per 120s or so.
Even full BIS 5k OP will die to 1 TR with frist strike + SE and 1 CW or some other class with good CC. SE with first strike on a BIS geared TR will do about 120k+ and then it's quite easy to finish. As it is, OP wont have perma CC immunity so it's a matter of good timing.
lol? ( sorry, that was cynical..)
banishement, is totally/absolutly useless on pvp excepting against impressionable players..
About tr, they already have something for resplnish their stealth, but i was talking about a rotation, everyone during a pvp will fight with 3 encounter 2 at will and 1 or 2 daily, without changing it until the end, will do exactly same rotation against all ( it's not paladin's privilege )
Paladin have almost itc as well ( difference is that we cannot hit while cc immune )
Difference in page means nothing, it's exactly what i said.