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CW nerfs revisited

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  • query523query523 Member Posts: 1,515 Arc User
    prettycelt wrote: »
    I especially saw it in recent skirmishes and dungeons...suddenly I was dropping to 2nd or 3rd place in Paingiver.

    3rd is middle and 2nd means you were a (as in one of 2) primary DPS. So your complaint is ????? That your controller is not also not primary DPS? That other classes (most of which have less utility) are competitive with you in DPS? The horror. The shame. Truly this game is now broken.
  • query523query523 Member Posts: 1,515 Arc User
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    Fine. But remove all damage from all CC powers then. I know SW's are complaining that the prone is broke on Harrowstorm, but according your philosophy, that's how the power should be to begin with. It does damage, therefore it shouldn't CC.

    Or they can remove the damage from Harrowstorm and keep the CC.

    Which is it?

    Who said all damage? All he said was that if you have damage and CC your damage should be less than a class without as much CC. Which would be, y'know, balanced.
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    smulch wrote: »
    Most players can't understand that a CW should almost always top paingiver charts simply because of their intended role (which is, aoe damage dealer).
    In the older Dungeon content? For sure, as there were mega-eff-tons of Adds there...

    In the newer Dungeon content such as eLoL, the single target DPS should shine as there are significantly less Adds then in older content.

    #JustSaying ;)

    va8Ru.gif
  • UndefinedUndefined Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    Well kolat. Your signature successfully made me turn of images. Thx.
    What's with people who put their Ilvl in their Signatures? They probably have a big gold chain and saggy pants too.
  • MiseryMisery Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Yeeeha, yes, it was so bad can't stack CWs any more. Seriously, all you CWs just go and shove off, pissses me off seeing your class complaning as well as sabot TRs saying executioner and scoundrel trees suck now (probably because they can't farm people 1v3 with those lol) . Your class NEVER suffered severe nerfs NE-VE-R. If you want to feel what the severe nerfs were - go ask some PvE TR veterans, they'll ask you for a gmop though. Like you CWs used to ask TRs for picking them with you so they don't have to sit for hours waiting for a group. Or maybe pre m2 GWFs and those that happened to play after they nerfed m2 GWF abominations. Pretty sure some GFs would put bits of their bitter experience with CWs stacking too. TIME YOUR SINGS, become control wizards that control, not cuntroll wizards that both DPS like no class and control like noone else does ffs.

    Oh and just another cent on CWs, none class has been able to oneshot me in PvP yet in m6 but a CW with fire wheel, shows what base damage your class has got.
    3.8k PvP SW.
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited June 2015

    Some kind of a stormspell change was probably in the post since the start of mod 6. At the start of mod 4 when we got stuck with it it was 20% chance to proc and could crit or not. They felt that was too often so it got changed to proc 30% chance on crit but it always crit. That was apparently fine. It proced less but bigger. What kept ss damage in check was the amount of crit you could get stack. When they made crit a linear stat that got out of control. Like I stand around at 65% chance to crit and I immediately go to 70% once I crit and if the capstone procs right its 100% chance to crit. So I get more procs than I did in mod 4. Obviously the effect of the curve shift wasn't thought through very well. Although perhaps comparing mod 4 to mod 6 balance may not be valid

    But to go back in time for a sec because its relevant back in mod 2 wizards did the best damage alongside gwfs. CW might have been slightly ahead if absolutely max geared but it was a small enough difference. In mod 3 gwf pve damage took a major hit. Most of it was coming from a bugged feat called deep gash. It didn't really matter to most people where it was coming from but it was good to have another strong class in the game. Apart from the clowns who clowns who love classes other than their own being nerfed no one was especially happy with the nerf. So next on the chopping block was CW because they figured the encounters did too much, The reduction in encounter damage was brutal and the devs recognised it as being too much so they buffed some things chief among them stormspell to mitigate the changes they had made. It was pretty last minute.

    And here we are in mod 6 with crit rates run wild, weak encounter powers and a nerfed passive we still cant do without. No one especially liked stormspell but you play the game they make and everything everyone built for was proccing it. Just like the intimidation GWFof not so long ago where you stacked power to get bigger procs. So at the moment Wizards are a good bit behind in pve damage for the first time. GWF is wildly stronger when built right and it seems like SW is too but its hard to tell with SW because the class is amazingly buggy and puppets hitting for millions of damage may not be intentional, but maybe it is. This is Neverwinter after all.

    I'm personally happy to ditch stormspell but I can't at all despite everything its still the only show in town. I would like my encounter damage back.

    What I found very funny was this week was the lol set not getting nerfed. So free stormspell got nerfed but the stormspell you have to pour millions of rp into goes on being the only relevant choice.

    Apart from some gimmick builds we can all recognise fairly quickly what the optimal path is unless there is some not WAI power of feat and you'll here all about it real fast when there is.
    Post edited by lewstelamon01 on
  • query523query523 Member Posts: 1,515 Arc User
    But to go back in time for a sec because its relevant back in mod 2 wizards did the best damage alongside gwfs. CW might have been slightly ahead if absolutely max geared but it was a small enough difference. In mod 3 gwf pve damage took a major hit. Most of it was coming from a bugged feat called deep gash.

    Here you illustrate why Mod2 was complete garbage. The deabte was wether it was 3 CWs and 2 GWFs or 4 CWs 1 GWF was optimal for dungeons. Stupidest. Meta. Ever. The only people who liked Mod2 were the one's serial farming CN (OK they gave us the HR I like the HR). And DG was amajor portion of GWF DPS in Mod2 as well. LOike StormSpell was amajorportionof CW DPS.
  • smulchsmulch Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 625 Arc User
    CW damage was right where it should have been before the nerf. Nerfing spell storm (and cutting a top CW damage by 20-25%) without compensating elsewhere is just plain stupid.
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 937 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    The CW now have less control than the HR and TR since they can control the fight with there grasping roots and smoke bomb. These control abilities should be looked at to balance the control ability of the CW.Then the CW's out there will not be so unhappy about the offensive ability being taken away.

    Edit due to typo
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    smulch wrote: »
    Most players can't understand that a CW should almost always top paingiver charts simply because of their intended role (which is, aoe damage dealer).
    In the older Dungeon content? For sure, as there were mega-eff-tons of Adds there...

    In the newer Dungeon content such as eLoL, the single target DPS should shine as there are significantly less Adds then in older content.

    #JustSaying ;)

    even in old style content smth like gwf as pure glass cannon dps should be ahead of a control class
    Paladin Master Race
  • quspivquspiv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    CW is freaking OP , still. With very good survivality and range on top of that. You can frezze group of mobs over and over again and deal good dmg in the same time.


    Just lol @ players who think TR have better CC. I'll gladly trade any TR's CC (which is melee range) for a ranged one like Entangling Force. GL dodging my SE then.


    CW should get a ~20% dmg debuff every time they cast CC for ~15-20s and a buff which increases duration of their next CC by ~20% for "X" sec.

    That way they would've to chose if they want to be strikers (with good dmg) or Controllers.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    mynaam wrote: »
    The CW now have less control than the HR and TR since they can control the fight with there grasping roots and smoke bomb. These control abilities should be looked at to balance the control ability of the CW.Then the CW's out there will not be so unhappy about the offensive ability being taken away.

    Edit due to typo

    Really? I hope you aren't serious about that, because if you are, then I will have to say, you are doing something wrong.
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 937 Arc User
    mynaam wrote: »
    The CW now have less control than the HR and TR since they can control the fight with there grasping roots and smoke bomb. These control abilities should be looked at to balance the control ability of the CW.Then the CW's out there will not be so unhappy about the offensive ability being taken away.

    Edit due to typo

    Really? I hope you aren't serious about that, because if you are, then I will have to say, you are doing something wrong.
    I can solo nearly all content (not dungeons) My problem is the only offensive weapon the CW has is Disintegrate. As for control icy terain is not nearly as effective as the smoke bomb or grasping root's you can only lift one at a time meaning that is not realy useful to Control a mob ice ray only freezes one at a time not good for ontrol either. the only spell the wizard has for left to control is icy terrain and that is not nearly as good as the HR an TR's Control abilities. I am merely suggesting if the CW needs to be the Controler nerf those control abilities of other classes or admit that it is not the controller as initially intended and stop nerfing it's offensive abilities.
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • quspivquspiv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    I think you're underestimating dps increase from Ray of Enfeeblement on TAB.
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Ye that's not a clever thing to say. No one uses tab enfeeeblement in pvp because tab shield is mandatory no exceptions and no one uses it in pve is because the cooldown is the same for both bursts so in practice there's no difference between tab and no tab in any extended fight.

    Post edited by lewstelamon01 on
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    CW is a control class, control class shouldnt do more dps than dps classes. cws are plenty strong as it is

    and if death is best cc, then killing enemies is best way to protect your party, give my paladin 100x more damage. and add controller to gwf description since its the best class at murdering stuff atm.
    Paladin Master Race
  • romotheoneromotheone Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 729 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    burkaanc wrote: »
    CW is a control class, control class shouldnt do more dps than dps classes. cws are plenty strong as it is

    and if death is best cc, then killing enemies is best way to protect your party, give my paladin 100x more damage. and add controller to gwf description since its the best class at murdering stuff atm.

    See the difference between a CW bringing up arguments and an OP/GWF QQing? A huge gap in quality and quantity.
  • group5egroup5e Member Posts: 294 Arc User
    Undefined wrote: »
    Well kolat. Your signature successfully made me turn of images. Thx.

    Yup, same with me. Between the forums new layout and that signature, I feel like I'm getting motion sickness.
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    burkaanc wrote: »
    CW is a control class, control class shouldnt do more dps than dps classes. cws are plenty strong as it is

    and if death is best cc, then killing enemies is best way to protect your party, give my paladin 100x more damage. and add controller to gwf description since its the best class at murdering stuff atm.

    On the other hand every class has control aspects and cw has been dps since open beta, what game have you been playing?
  • group5egroup5e Member Posts: 294 Arc User
    mynaam wrote: »
    The CW now have less control than the HR and TR since they can control the fight with there grasping roots and smoke bomb. These control abilities should be looked at to balance the control ability of the CW.Then the CW's out there will not be so unhappy about the offensive ability being taken away.

    Edit due to typo

    Not sure if this is a joke or not... I'm choosing to take it as such. Nice one!!! Well played!

  • daeduswolfedaeduswolfe Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    As someone who has been on the development/marketing side of things, change=revenues. Believe it or not, but some things are purposely designed to be changed down the road. And not all at once .. bit by bit. every change requires the player to "adapt" and, hopefully, spend money in order to do so.

    As to PVP on this game. I don't think the core system is designed to deal with dual data for combat. At least from what I can glean from the way things have been working for me it isn't. Guild Wars was designed around the idea of PVP combat being seperate from PVE
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    romotheone wrote: »
    burkaanc wrote: »
    CW is a control class, control class shouldnt do more dps than dps classes. cws are plenty strong as it is

    and if death is best cc, then killing enemies is best way to protect your party, give my paladin 100x more damage. and add controller to gwf description since its the best class at murdering stuff atm.

    See the difference between a CW bringing up arguments and an OP/GWF QQing? A huge gap in quality and quantity.

    like what?

    control is not about kill or aoe. proved here (2 posts to green quots... 0 personal opinions, just a analyze of discourse ):
    http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/4435761/#Comment_4435761
    wh

    say "kill is the best control" is just a figure of speech reinforced by a lot of bugs (aoe bonus in the past/storm now). if you try bring that to literal sense, so, yes, "the best defence is the attack, so, buff tanks".

    cw is a secundary striker, so just should do more damage/have better mobility than a non striker. seens obvious enough to "debate".
    Post edited by zacazu on
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    I'm really sick of these stupid points about striker/controller roles.

    1) Its been pointed out to you before many times what the definition of a controller is
    2) It doesn't matter what the definition in 4ed dnd is this is an mmo
    3) If you follow the role logic to its obvious conclusion you would see gwf massively nerfed to bring it in line with tr
    4) You're only point contrary to that ever has been fanfiction
    5) I don't even know what reality you live in to think gwf has any singletarget problems in pve right now. Go read a build.
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I'm really sick of these stupid points about striker/controller roles.

    1) Its been pointed out to you before many times what the definition of a controller is
    2) It doesn't matter what the definition in 4ed dnd is this is an mmo
    3) If you follow the role logic to its obvious conclusion you would see gwf massively nerfed to bring it in line with tr
    4) You're only point contrary to that ever has been fanfiction
    5) I don't even know what reality you live in to think gwf has any singletarget problems in pve right now. Go read a build.

    wrong:
    Strikers specialize in mobility and damage output. These combatants focus on disposing threats as quickly as possible by doing as much damage as they can, as quickly as they can, without enemies retaliating.


    to REINFORCE a point, nothing proven:
    A striker primarily eliminates single threats by closing with a target quickly and safely, then rapidly dealing damage to it. The rogue is the classic striker class.[PH:15]

    gwf DONT HAVE TOOLS to do that w/o retaliation (only a daily). in fact, between strikers and secundary strikers, gwf is the most weak in this.

    rogues have stealth. the best mobility tool BY FAR. the difference in this you see in pvp.

    if you considering the "secundary function", that is, rogue is far better controller than gwfs defenders( dungeons) well ...

  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    Great thanks for more fanfiction
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    ah, destroy your poor points using the devs/game definitions and FACTS is fanfiction? ok

    the reality is what you think. i hate the modernity...
  • helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I'm never sure whether you're just really stupid or if its just google translate <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you. You didn't destroy any point I made. You think you argued with one of them but you didn't. You didn't know how to make a gwf last mod and I doubt that's changed this mod. Maybe its because you think you are playing dnd, you aren't
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