I soled cn, it wasn't a big deal. If you really want to look for vidoes you can find a 16k sw doing it.
Godot cw was already down to earth being wildly outdpsed by gwf. I'm sure the clown above will disagree.
OutDPSed when >50% of red HP are sitting in bosses, officers, and tanky brutes. And that should be this way, because single target DPS is what the GWF does best, should do best, and is supposed to do.
When there's plenty of critters, the CW still is faster, and would also outDPS GWF again.
Also, wait and see what will happen with/to Lostmouse...
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Who knows. Maybe they just felt they hadn't annoyed enough folk this month.
And the problem with the whole "control vs dps" thing is that not many people actually want to be a controller.
I always choose mage/wizard types in RPGs and it's not because I want to slow/freeze/distract enemies. It's because I want to set their feet on fire, apply 50,000 volts to their nether regions and mash their head with an improbably large chunk of ice, preferably all at the same time. I chose a Control Wizard because there didn't seem to be a Route-One-Unsubtle-Nuclear-Warhead Wizard on the list.
People choose to be a mage in D&D because: FIREBALL....KA-BOOM!!!
Or is that just me?
Well blame Cryptic for this. Naming the wizard a Control Wizard but giving the class tools to out-damage everything else in the game. Yes, you aren't the first and won't be the last to play a CW just to blow stuff up, but control should be their main focus so getting rid of this silly SS damage is a step in the right direction.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
When there's plenty of critters, the CW still is faster, and would also outDPS GWF again.
Every equal geared gwf can easy out dps an cw. And if lost set get nerfed, they still do it.
Even in mod 5 with intimidation build you dpsed over 90% CWs out as gwf.
Yea, stopped reading there. Even with TT SW's still could not compare to a competent CW. The only CW's that a SW could out pace were the bad ones.
Oh noes, you had one power balanced. Least you didn't ahve two specs ripped out from under you and made completely useless. *frowns at the state of Fury and Temptation for SWs*
That is complete Bull. Any competent SW was outdpsing the best CWs on the server in Mod 5.
The nerf was needed but making it unable to crit as well as giving it an ICD is overkill , I'm sure that CW will manage to survive like it has every other time it has been hit with the nerf bat .
Anyway if we see so many tears for one class feature being nerfed then I cannot wait for the inevitable Lostmauth nerf , the sweet sweet tears will nourish my soul.
Why, you want the server to be completely empty by next month? That is what gets you off? Numbers are down again over the previous month. At the rate they keep pissing off players, there will be no one left by September.
Storm Spell: This class feature now has a .5 second ICD and can no longer critically strike.
As expected many people are confused or upset about these changes.
In the following I would like to give my personal explaination the reason,
the specific way and the expected outcome of this update mainly from a macro level view. Therefore I post this thread in the General Discussion section!
Let's take a look at the Class Feature itself first:
In addition an Artifact Offhand can apply following effect to your character:
Storm Spell: Storm Spell now has a 5% chance to deliver an additional strike.
Storm Spell itself is buffed by damage boni and profits from debuffs. The proc chance is way higher and works different as the tooltip describes which makes Storm Spell quite powerfull in general. In addition the 5% chance from the Offhand Bonus apply to all attacks not only critical ones. It seems the Storm Spells triggered from those 5% are still able to crit.
The Past:
This change came quite sudden and unexpected even for me as an avid Neverwinter player.
Historically the Control Wizard has been a strong class. His ability to use an additional spell in his "Spell Mastery (Tab)" slot, his shift mechanic granting immunity and the amount of AoE and Control his powers offer made the CW a very solid class.
Upon release back at the very first Beta Weekend when I started playing Neverwinter I started up the game and was confronted with the Character Creation screen. With the ability of that many races and classes to choose from I needed some information to choose the best one for me personally and as a player (as I am very competitive). After creating and deleting and every class to have access to feats and powers I could choose from and communicating with other Beta players I choose the CW (Tiefling) as my first real Neverwinter Character and played it actively and nearly on a daily basis for over a year.
The CW has been the target of "nerfs" (mostly necessary changes that benefit the state of the game and the class balance). Many players remember how overpowered the Action Point gain from "Shield" or "Entangling Force on Tab" was, up to a point were you could look these encounters with "Arcane Singularity". Eye of the Storm was another strong class feature basically granting you 100% for a short duration, but since the CW also had a number of strong Dailies and Encounters he was pretty much able to clear rooms within the time of the Eye of the Storm proc. If one CW failed another one took over. People made groups with 3-4 maybe even 5 Control Wizards as they were overall stronger compared to other classes (apart from the DC who kept parties alive and boosted party DPS just like now) and fitted the way Dungeons are build perfectly.
This went so far that some players dubbed the game Control Wizard Online instead of Neverwinter Online.
With the rework of the class on launch of Module 4 many changes came, but the Control Wizard was still a top tier (arguably necessary) addition to groups. The "Eye of the Storm" Class Feature got nerfed and the damage of "Sudden Storm" reduced as these were big factors why the Control Wizard was overpowered and canceled out other classes from play.
The Devs also started to introduce a new structure to dungeons. People who played in Module 4 and 5 will definitly remember the strong difference between old content pre Module 4 and the Shores of Tuern skirmish, the Lair of Lostmauth dungeon and the areas that came after M4.
The general idea was to decrease the quanity of enemies and increase their quality. Small groups of 5-8 enemies which a few critters and one or two elites is the picture you will see in content past Module 4.
However, the Devs went further and with Module 6 many necessary changes were made and they took the chance to rework pre-M4 content with the structure they introduced later. While Malabogs Castle and Valindras Tower still stay with lots of mobs the quality of these is quite decent so no changes were made. The new agenda is noticable in Cragmire Crypts, Temple of Spider and Gray Wolf Den. Not to forget, the Devs also wanted to make boss fights more "epic" and thats why the bosses in those dungeons got some new mechanics and powers.
Another big influence on the CW was the introduction of the Scourge Warlock (SW) to Neverwinter.
Previously the CW was what many considered a "Ranged AoE Damage Dealer", however it is quite easily noticable that nearly all CW Encounters have not only a damaging effect they also apply chill, buff yourself with Arcance Mastery stacks or have debuff/control effects - In short CW encounters pay a "fee" on their damage numbers for the additional effect.
The SW did not have something like this on most of his Powers. He was a pure Damage Dealer who also had some utility (definitly more than for example a GWF), but far less control and not much debuffing.
With the new SW, finally the role of the Control Wizard could be defined properly again. While he still had the most AoE he was not necessarily the main damage dealer of the party.
Back in Module 2 every class in Neverwinter got a new "Paragon" with different Mechanics, At-wills, Encounters, Feats and Class Features than the standard paragon.
For the CW that was the "Master of Flame": http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Master_of_Flame
The opinion was split and many people looked at it and saw that they lost the "Sudden Storm" Encounter and "Eye of the Storm" and "Storm Spell" as Class Features. Since these things were top contributiors to the damage output the majority of CWs stayed with the old "Spellstorm" paragon.
However, over the time of Module 2 I started to play with a number of Master of Flame CWs and my opinion started change. I realized that the class feature "Swath of Destruction" (http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Swath_of_Destruction) and the use of the Renegade Featpath (pretty much everybody ran Thaumaturge back then) are very potent at buffing the damage output of the group. I considered every good party needs one Spellstorm Thaumaturge for it's great damage AND a Master of Flame Renegade CW for the amazing buffing.
Sadly, the casual player can not always understand the power of utility and that along with other reasons is why the Master of Flame paragon never really took off.
Speaking of feath paths the Thaumaturge reigned supreme for the longest time like Spellstorm over Master of Flame and repeated nerfs up to M6 result in Renegade being the most common choice nowadays. While Thaumaturge CWs will still put out more personal damage over a Renegade, the damage increase to the party and still excellent personal damage from a Renegade make him overall more effective.
Let's recap:
The rework of dungeons and the introduction of the SW (over other possible DnD classes) was mostly aimed to bring back class balance and a healthy state of the game.
The Spellstorm Paragon has been nerfed repeatedly due to it overperforming and changing the role of the Control Wizard in an unhealthy way. Furthermore the Master of Flame Paragon got canceled out of play like other classes by the Control Wizard as a whole. To move away from the ranged DD role more the Thaumaturge Featpath has been nerfed and the more group focused Renegade is now top choice.
So what is up now?
Module 6 brings the new theme to dungeons and Control Wizards don't have a massive advantage over other classes anymore. Primary damage dealers like SW* and GWF clearly fullfil the role much better than the Control Wizard, however his control and utility of the Renegade feathpath are great additions to every party and make the CW still a top tier choice for groups. But now 1-2 CWs are standard and not 3-4 of them! *The SW is a little weak at the moment while Damnation clearly overperforms the class as a whole needs a buff, just a minor ones to make him the best ranged DD again.
That is great right? CWs are good, but not OP.
No.
Because there still are issues. If you look at the damage output spectrum of a CW the biggest part comes from "Storm Spell" (if he has a Lostmauth Set it might be that, however that is a different story). Yes, a class feature is the major part of a CWs damage, that is just messed up. Nearly every CW is using Icy Terrain and Stealtime because these encounters proc Spell Storm so well. It is also on every CWs bar.
A big number of CWs uses the offhand bonus for Spell Storm over every other one, with the exception of PvP players who use Chilling Presence for it's excellent bonus and the synergy of RoF.
So this is the point!
The Control Wizard in itself is still missunderstood. He is still confused with a ranged Damage Dealer as MAIN Role. Just because of his AoE he surely does deal good damage, but he is not build for and around that.
It seems like the Devs had a keen eye on how the CW performs now in Module 6 and finally pulled the trigger to destroy the last "Bane of the Control Wizard". Yes, it was a curse! Horrible. It is over everyone, let's celebrate!
We can play Master of Flame without being crucified. Do you know which other Class Features the CW has? I play for 2 years, I don't (just kidding I could recite them any time).
The Outcry:
Now to the people who claim all the damage is gone, the CW is garbage now, this nerf is bad, I spilled my milk now I have to cry and mum why you don't buy me the candy I want.
The internal cooldown and locking the Storm Spells on non-crits won't hurt people who are in need of damage.
The CW is still a potent class and if your geared you will not have issues with Solo Content all of the sudden.
In group play the CW is by far not the best damage dealer in Module 6.
Every experience player will know that a GWF is capable of dealing at least 1/3 more or up to 3 times more personal damage in a dungeon. SWs are also great damage dealers despite the nerfs, however as mentioned above quite weak. TRs just to mention here suck in PvE while they are still great in PvP, the current TR reminds me of PvE TRs in Module 2 - does something, but other classes simply do better.
So the CW will still be great for parties! Renegade is awesome, you can use MoF and maybe go more support than ever before! CW will still do more damage than primary support classes that is sure and you can also use cool spells like Shard of Endless Avalance again and many more!
For new CWs and people with low gear. The change may be noticable, however a player with low crit won't crit much withing 0.5 seconds anyway or crit on the Storm Spell proc itself. It doesn't break the class, it does not make it unplayable.
If your a CW player who wants to deal maximum PERSONAL DAMAGE you already go a non-effective way in my view, however I believe you will still be able to make that work, if you really want. I personally would like to mention that for pure damage you can always play another class in Neverwinter *cough GWF cough SW cough*.
The Future:
CWs won't go extinct, they won't even go down. The CW is still a top tier class in Neverwinter the change is for the game a good one, a necessary one and one of the examples that the Devs do understand their job and deliver good work at times or at least catch up on mistakes.
Im personally excited to see more Master of Flame CWs around since they are one of my favourite and in my view best designed Paragons.
For more information about the Master of Flame check out: http://laggygamerz.com/forum/index.php?/topic/392-master-of-flame-a-cws-handbook/
and http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?768881-Chem-s-Comprehensive-MoF-guide-%28PvE-Mod4%29
Remember please that this information is partly outdated!
All opinions and data in this thread is my personal view and therefore biased, im open to discussion and other opinions.
Overall I wanted to share my side of things with all the new and all the old players of Neverwinter.
they should remove the 30% indicated then since the ICD will reduce it's value, (same as with other skills/feats/items that have a %chance but has an ICD) since if you crit 100 times (hypothetically ofc) in less than the ICD's timer you'd only proc 1%.
Misfits
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
edited June 2015
Everyone put the rulers away and zip up your pants... no one cares about the triviality of who is best.
A nerf is a nerf is a nerf.
When there are multiple options, the first thing done is a knee-jerk reaction instead of a subtle response.
If they did play, they would know what, how much/ little needed to be done when it needs to be done. Would the Preview server be there if they did play? Honestly... would you want to play a game that you spent all day working on?
Please understand this... their focus is on Strongholds and beyond. As a corporation, their focus is on growth and the future. It is the way business works. They are trying to clean up a mess that was left by the previous "administration". When you have multiple areas that are broken, and you are not even sure about the gravity and depth of the situation because you were aware of a very small part... where do you start?
They know that we will adapt to the changes. The biggest problem is that so many have grown accustomed to the status quo of M1 through M5. Things are not as they were expected to be... with the release of M6. There are multiple options that many of us have had to use... some ran away for a greener pasture, some stayed and some paid to embrace the status quo as it was before.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
I find it funny that every class is obsessed with being "outdpsed" by another class. Seems kind of lame to be honest. DPS isn't the only thing a class should bring to the table. Calling someone a "bad" <insert class here> because they couldn't outdps another class is really immature and makes me think more about the people who are doing the badmouthing as being completely incompetent at playing their class.
As far as the CW changes go, we'll see how it actually affects gameplay in the coming week. I can't help but think that many people who complain don't really test anything beforehand and go off half-cocked before trying it first on preview or waiting for it to come out live.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
ya real cool, work ur *** off to get the lostmau set, put ur hard earned legendaries into it to get it up to snuff an now they are going to wreck it, and when they do, i am done with this game, as i am sure many others will be to, cause having to remake a whole new set of what ever, forget it, this game is nothing but a rp grind and isnt really got any decent content , nothing new, remade bogus maps an they call that new content, whooo hoo different mobs , big friggen deal, oh an by the way with the way they have change crit, the lostmau set already isnt that great.
Tbh if you were stupid enough to refine the whole LM set to legendary/mythic without thinking that it would get nerfed (because doing 25%-plus of your damage is cool and lazy) then I have no sympathy for you. The set should not even have made it to live and should have been fixed ages ago - but this is how Cryptic works: make something stupidly OP and watch the horde splash the cash on it before nerfing it much later on.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
0
juleadreamMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 372Arc User
edited June 2015
This nerf makes me very happy I rolled a Master of Flame as my main CW... but my poor SS will suffer.
they should remove the 30% indicated then since the ICD will reduce it's value, (same as with other skills/feats/items that have a %chance but has an ICD) since if you crit 100 times (hypothetically ofc) in less than the ICD's timer you'd only proc 1%.
Thrilling question: What about simultaneous procs...
...I guess we'll have to wait until the first ACT parses are there. If, e.g. an opening IT with EotS still triggers StSp on every affected mob, no big deal. If only one mob gets struck by lightning then - uh-oh.
That was well written BlackyLuke. Thanks for taking the time to explain the developments of the CW. I only started in Mod 5, and looking at the past modules it seems there were many road bumps leading to where we are now.
I see your perspective in how this might elevate the MoF over the SS CW. I main a spellstorm mage, and yes my class feature is going to be nerfed, but I'm not going to abandon my paragon just yet. I've invested a lot into this particular build and enjoy how it plays. Hope you don't go looking down on your spellstorm mage cousins though, usually other classes don't really differentiate between the two, just saying .
If anything, this change to storm spell will probably be remembered just like the previous class re-balances you outlined in your post, and nothing more. The wheel continues to turn ...
The Outcry:
Now to the people who claim all the damage is gone, the CW is garbage now, this nerf is bad, I spilled my milk now I have to cry and mum why you don't buy me the candy I want.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Excellent post. I, for one, am happy to finally be able to consider alternate class features. As a side note, did they remember to update the tooltip to mention the internal cooldown ?
Thrilling question: What about simultaneous procs...
since it DID crit, i think it should get that 30% chance of proccing again.
imo, just removing the crit is fine, Adding an ICD on top of that is too much.
When I was a new player in mod 4, I mained a MoF CW. I remember getting kicked frequently because I was using a plague fire debuff enchant with master of flame, and not a vorpal SS mage.
'You don't do max DPS, you're a weight for the group, we kick you'
That's about when I started getting into warlock, and I haven't stopped since.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
The control wizard is first controller and second Striker, however the GWF is Striker and Defender, however, as well as the GWF is not a good tanker as OP or GF CW should not be a equivalent DPS the GWF.
I hope this ends the trendy LosthM.Combo in CW, and thus they worry more in performing its primary function of Controller (VT combo for example)
That's a really all over the road way of saying I don't think you should do dps because I divined the intention from mind's of the devs because I think so.
Cw isn't even 2nd top damage this mod. The nerf is a haircut of 20% of all damage. Will it kil the class, no obviously not. You're out of your might mind if you think its anything but irritating.
MoF has always been the lol of course you contribute path.
CW has always been a heavy damage class. Maybe not at the absolute top but always pushing it for 5 mods.
This role talk is always amusing because it always seems to come when it suits people. I could care less what some flavour text says. Striker just entitles you to decent single target damage, should gwf be better at tanking and more in line with tr single target? Oh? no. I wouldn't suggest it either. Lets not bandy about the grognardisms then.
We've also missed a key point in the road before the begging of mod 4 where the devs decided to reduce the damage on a lot of cw encounters. It was hardly just sudden storm, shard is a dead power. For what its worth I thought the eots change was a buff the way it ended up. Anyway they buffed the stormspell because they recognised they went too far and it was getting close to launch. My point here is it was in as a compensation. No one wanted all their damage to be coming off a proc but we made the most of it. Now we're just going to have a bunch of wet noodle encounters
The devs gutting the sw isn't my fault. I've said it should be buffed on a number of occasions. I don't think the class I main should be balanced on the basis of their wrecking another one.
Comments
OutDPSed when >50% of red HP are sitting in bosses, officers, and tanky brutes. And that should be this way, because single target DPS is what the GWF does best, should do best, and is supposed to do.
When there's plenty of critters, the CW still is faster, and would also outDPS GWF again.
Also, wait and see what will happen with/to Lostmouse...
Well blame Cryptic for this. Naming the wizard a Control Wizard but giving the class tools to out-damage everything else in the game. Yes, you aren't the first and won't be the last to play a CW just to blow stuff up, but control should be their main focus so getting rid of this silly SS damage is a step in the right direction.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Every equal geared gwf can easy out dps an cw. And if lost set get nerfed, they still do it.
Even in mod 5 with intimidation build you dpsed over 90% CWs out as gwf.
That is complete Bull. Any competent SW was outdpsing the best CWs on the server in Mod 5.
Why, you want the server to be completely empty by next month? That is what gets you off? Numbers are down again over the previous month. At the rate they keep pissing off players, there will be no one left by September.
the patchnotes for the day (11.06.2015) include some changes to
one of the Class Features specific to the Storm Spell paragon for the Control Wizard.
As expected many people are confused or upset about these changes.
In the following I would like to give my personal explaination the reason,
the specific way and the expected outcome of this update mainly from a macro level view.
Therefore I post this thread in the General Discussion section!
Let's take a look at the Class Feature itself first:
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Storm_Spell
In addition an Artifact Offhand can apply following effect to your character:
Storm Spell: Storm Spell now has a 5% chance to deliver an additional strike.
Storm Spell itself is buffed by damage boni and profits from debuffs. The proc chance is way higher and works different as the tooltip describes which makes Storm Spell quite powerfull in general. In addition the 5% chance from the Offhand Bonus apply to all attacks not only critical ones. It seems the Storm Spells triggered from those 5% are still able to crit.
The Past:
This change came quite sudden and unexpected even for me as an avid Neverwinter player.
Historically the Control Wizard has been a strong class. His ability to use an additional spell in his "Spell Mastery (Tab)" slot, his shift mechanic granting immunity and the amount of AoE and Control his powers offer made the CW a very solid class.
Upon release back at the very first Beta Weekend when I started playing Neverwinter I started up the game and was confronted with the Character Creation screen. With the ability of that many races and classes to choose from I needed some information to choose the best one for me personally and as a player (as I am very competitive). After creating and deleting and every class to have access to feats and powers I could choose from and communicating with other Beta players I choose the CW (Tiefling) as my first real Neverwinter Character and played it actively and nearly on a daily basis for over a year.
The CW has been the target of "nerfs" (mostly necessary changes that benefit the state of the game and the class balance). Many players remember how overpowered the Action Point gain from "Shield" or "Entangling Force on Tab" was, up to a point were you could look these encounters with "Arcane Singularity". Eye of the Storm was another strong class feature basically granting you 100% for a short duration, but since the CW also had a number of strong Dailies and Encounters he was pretty much able to clear rooms within the time of the Eye of the Storm proc. If one CW failed another one took over. People made groups with 3-4 maybe even 5 Control Wizards as they were overall stronger compared to other classes (apart from the DC who kept parties alive and boosted party DPS just like now) and fitted the way Dungeons are build perfectly.
This went so far that some players dubbed the game Control Wizard Online instead of Neverwinter Online.
With the rework of the class on launch of Module 4 many changes came, but the Control Wizard was still a top tier (arguably necessary) addition to groups. The "Eye of the Storm" Class Feature got nerfed and the damage of "Sudden Storm" reduced as these were big factors why the Control Wizard was overpowered and canceled out other classes from play.
The Devs also started to introduce a new structure to dungeons. People who played in Module 4 and 5 will definitly remember the strong difference between old content pre Module 4 and the Shores of Tuern skirmish, the Lair of Lostmauth dungeon and the areas that came after M4.
The general idea was to decrease the quanity of enemies and increase their quality. Small groups of 5-8 enemies which a few critters and one or two elites is the picture you will see in content past Module 4.
However, the Devs went further and with Module 6 many necessary changes were made and they took the chance to rework pre-M4 content with the structure they introduced later. While Malabogs Castle and Valindras Tower still stay with lots of mobs the quality of these is quite decent so no changes were made. The new agenda is noticable in Cragmire Crypts, Temple of Spider and Gray Wolf Den. Not to forget, the Devs also wanted to make boss fights more "epic" and thats why the bosses in those dungeons got some new mechanics and powers.
Another big influence on the CW was the introduction of the Scourge Warlock (SW) to Neverwinter.
Previously the CW was what many considered a "Ranged AoE Damage Dealer", however it is quite easily noticable that nearly all CW Encounters have not only a damaging effect they also apply chill, buff yourself with Arcance Mastery stacks or have debuff/control effects - In short CW encounters pay a "fee" on their damage numbers for the additional effect.
The SW did not have something like this on most of his Powers. He was a pure Damage Dealer who also had some utility (definitly more than for example a GWF), but far less control and not much debuffing.
With the new SW, finally the role of the Control Wizard could be defined properly again. While he still had the most AoE he was not necessarily the main damage dealer of the party.
Back in Module 2 every class in Neverwinter got a new "Paragon" with different Mechanics, At-wills, Encounters, Feats and Class Features than the standard paragon.
For the CW that was the "Master of Flame": http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Master_of_Flame
The opinion was split and many people looked at it and saw that they lost the "Sudden Storm" Encounter and "Eye of the Storm" and "Storm Spell" as Class Features. Since these things were top contributiors to the damage output the majority of CWs stayed with the old "Spellstorm" paragon.
However, over the time of Module 2 I started to play with a number of Master of Flame CWs and my opinion started change. I realized that the class feature "Swath of Destruction" (http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Swath_of_Destruction) and the use of the Renegade Featpath (pretty much everybody ran Thaumaturge back then) are very potent at buffing the damage output of the group. I considered every good party needs one Spellstorm Thaumaturge for it's great damage AND a Master of Flame Renegade CW for the amazing buffing.
Sadly, the casual player can not always understand the power of utility and that along with other reasons is why the Master of Flame paragon never really took off.
Speaking of feath paths the Thaumaturge reigned supreme for the longest time like Spellstorm over Master of Flame and repeated nerfs up to M6 result in Renegade being the most common choice nowadays. While Thaumaturge CWs will still put out more personal damage over a Renegade, the damage increase to the party and still excellent personal damage from a Renegade make him overall more effective.
Let's recap:
The rework of dungeons and the introduction of the SW (over other possible DnD classes) was mostly aimed to bring back class balance and a healthy state of the game.
The Spellstorm Paragon has been nerfed repeatedly due to it overperforming and changing the role of the Control Wizard in an unhealthy way. Furthermore the Master of Flame Paragon got canceled out of play like other classes by the Control Wizard as a whole. To move away from the ranged DD role more the Thaumaturge Featpath has been nerfed and the more group focused Renegade is now top choice.
So what is up now?
Module 6 brings the new theme to dungeons and Control Wizards don't have a massive advantage over other classes anymore. Primary damage dealers like SW* and GWF clearly fullfil the role much better than the Control Wizard, however his control and utility of the Renegade feathpath are great additions to every party and make the CW still a top tier choice for groups. But now 1-2 CWs are standard and not 3-4 of them!
*The SW is a little weak at the moment while Damnation clearly overperforms the class as a whole needs a buff, just a minor ones to make him the best ranged DD again.
That is great right? CWs are good, but not OP.
No.
Because there still are issues. If you look at the damage output spectrum of a CW the biggest part comes from "Storm Spell" (if he has a Lostmauth Set it might be that, however that is a different story). Yes, a class feature is the major part of a CWs damage, that is just messed up. Nearly every CW is using Icy Terrain and Stealtime because these encounters proc Spell Storm so well. It is also on every CWs bar.
A big number of CWs uses the offhand bonus for Spell Storm over every other one, with the exception of PvP players who use Chilling Presence for it's excellent bonus and the synergy of RoF.
So this is the point!
The Control Wizard in itself is still missunderstood. He is still confused with a ranged Damage Dealer as MAIN Role. Just because of his AoE he surely does deal good damage, but he is not build for and around that.
It seems like the Devs had a keen eye on how the CW performs now in Module 6 and finally pulled the trigger to destroy the last "Bane of the Control Wizard". Yes, it was a curse! Horrible. It is over everyone, let's celebrate!
We can play Master of Flame without being crucified. Do you know which other Class Features the CW has? I play for 2 years, I don't
The Outcry:
Now to the people who claim all the damage is gone, the CW is garbage now, this nerf is bad, I spilled my milk now I have to cry and mum why you don't buy me the candy I want.
The internal cooldown and locking the Storm Spells on non-crits won't hurt people who are in need of damage.
The CW is still a potent class and if your geared you will not have issues with Solo Content all of the sudden.
In group play the CW is by far not the best damage dealer in Module 6.
Every experience player will know that a GWF is capable of dealing at least 1/3 more or up to 3 times more personal damage in a dungeon. SWs are also great damage dealers despite the nerfs, however as mentioned above quite weak. TRs just to mention here suck in PvE while they are still great in PvP, the current TR reminds me of PvE TRs in Module 2 - does something, but other classes simply do better.
So the CW will still be great for parties! Renegade is awesome, you can use MoF and maybe go more support than ever before! CW will still do more damage than primary support classes that is sure and you can also use cool spells like Shard of Endless Avalance again and many more!
For new CWs and people with low gear. The change may be noticable, however a player with low crit won't crit much withing 0.5 seconds anyway or crit on the Storm Spell proc itself. It doesn't break the class, it does not make it unplayable.
If your a CW player who wants to deal maximum PERSONAL DAMAGE you already go a non-effective way in my view, however I believe you will still be able to make that work, if you really want. I personally would like to mention that for pure damage you can always play another class in Neverwinter *cough GWF cough SW cough*.
The Future:
CWs won't go extinct, they won't even go down. The CW is still a top tier class in Neverwinter the change is for the game a good one, a necessary one and one of the examples that the Devs do understand their job and deliver good work at times or at least catch up on mistakes.
Im personally excited to see more Master of Flame CWs around since they are one of my favourite and in my view best designed Paragons.
For more information about the Master of Flame check out:
http://laggygamerz.com/forum/index.php?/topic/392-master-of-flame-a-cws-handbook/
and
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?768881-Chem-s-Comprehensive-MoF-guide-%28PvE-Mod4%29
Remember please that this information is partly outdated!
All opinions and data in this thread is my personal view and therefore biased, im open to discussion and other opinions.
Overall I wanted to share my side of things with all the new and all the old players of Neverwinter.
BlackyLuke
i agree sw's gained the nickname the "nuke" back in mod 5 for a reason. they took down dragons in no time flat.
A nerf is a nerf is a nerf.
When there are multiple options, the first thing done is a knee-jerk reaction instead of a subtle response.
If they did play, they would know what, how much/ little needed to be done when it needs to be done. Would the Preview server be there if they did play? Honestly... would you want to play a game that you spent all day working on?
Please understand this... their focus is on Strongholds and beyond. As a corporation, their focus is on growth and the future. It is the way business works. They are trying to clean up a mess that was left by the previous "administration". When you have multiple areas that are broken, and you are not even sure about the gravity and depth of the situation because you were aware of a very small part... where do you start?
They know that we will adapt to the changes. The biggest problem is that so many have grown accustomed to the status quo of M1 through M5. Things are not as they were expected to be... with the release of M6. There are multiple options that many of us have had to use... some ran away for a greener pasture, some stayed and some paid to embrace the status quo as it was before.
As far as the CW changes go, we'll see how it actually affects gameplay in the coming week. I can't help but think that many people who complain don't really test anything beforehand and go off half-cocked before trying it first on preview or waiting for it to come out live.
There fixed that for you
Tbh if you were stupid enough to refine the whole LM set to legendary/mythic without thinking that it would get nerfed (because doing 25%-plus of your damage is cool and lazy) then I have no sympathy for you. The set should not even have made it to live and should have been fixed ages ago - but this is how Cryptic works: make something stupidly OP and watch the horde splash the cash on it before nerfing it much later on.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Thrilling question: What about simultaneous procs...
...I guess we'll have to wait until the first ACT parses are there. If, e.g. an opening IT with EotS still triggers StSp on every affected mob, no big deal. If only one mob gets struck by lightning then - uh-oh.
I see your perspective in how this might elevate the MoF over the SS CW. I main a spellstorm mage, and yes my class feature is going to be nerfed, but I'm not going to abandon my paragon just yet. I've invested a lot into this particular build and enjoy how it plays. Hope you don't go looking down on your spellstorm mage cousins though, usually other classes don't really differentiate between the two, just saying
If anything, this change to storm spell will probably be remembered just like the previous class re-balances you outlined in your post, and nothing more. The wheel continues to turn ...
Nice analysis! And this part was hilarious!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
since it DID crit, i think it should get that 30% chance of proccing again.
imo, just removing the crit is fine, Adding an ICD on top of that is too much.
'You don't do max DPS, you're a weight for the group, we kick you'
That's about when I started getting into warlock, and I haven't stopped since.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
I hope this ends the trendy LosthM.Combo in CW, and thus they worry more in performing its primary function of Controller (VT combo for example)
Cw isn't even 2nd top damage this mod. The nerf is a haircut of 20% of all damage. Will it kil the class, no obviously not. You're out of your might mind if you think its anything but irritating.
MoF has always been the lol of course you contribute path.
CW has always been a heavy damage class. Maybe not at the absolute top but always pushing it for 5 mods.
This role talk is always amusing because it always seems to come when it suits people. I could care less what some flavour text says. Striker just entitles you to decent single target damage, should gwf be better at tanking and more in line with tr single target? Oh? no. I wouldn't suggest it either. Lets not bandy about the grognardisms then.
We've also missed a key point in the road before the begging of mod 4 where the devs decided to reduce the damage on a lot of cw encounters. It was hardly just sudden storm, shard is a dead power. For what its worth I thought the eots change was a buff the way it ended up. Anyway they buffed the stormspell because they recognised they went too far and it was getting close to launch. My point here is it was in as a compensation. No one wanted all their damage to be coming off a proc but we made the most of it. Now we're just going to have a bunch of wet noodle encounters
The devs gutting the sw isn't my fault. I've said it should be buffed on a number of occasions. I don't think the class I main should be balanced on the basis of their wrecking another one.