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Cap on spending astral diamonds

chinspinnerchinspinner Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited May 2015 in General Discussion (PC)
I am trying to buy an item from the auction house, but I keep getting a message telling me that I am limited on the amount of astral diamonds I can spend. My character is level 60.

A few questions:

1) What is the limit, and at what level is it removed?

2) Why the hell is there not a warning when you purchase these things for rl life cash/ zen that there is a limit imposed? It is a fundamentally IMPORTANT piece of information for the consumer if they can't use the product in question until they have fulfilled certain requirements first.

I am also getting a message that I cannot use Astral Resonators due to a recent transaction. My only recent transaction was buying Zen via Steam.

What is going on? Why am I being prevented from using items I have purchased in good faith?
My new quest:

WIP
Post edited by chinspinner on
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Comments

  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    There is a limit? You must've gone far up the ladder to hit that. I've never run into it so far...

    Or did you miss out on clicking the "Withdraw" button in the ZEN-AD-exchange, maybe? Because you can only bid for the amount of AD that the bidding character has on board. If your millions of AD are sitting in the bottom line of the ZAX, you can't spend them on AH or WB...
  • rhoriangelusrhoriangelus Member Posts: 703 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Buying Zen through Steam causes a TON of problems, and in the future, I would recommend just not doing so if it can at all be avoided. When you buy Zen through Steam you automatically end up 'on probation'. How long it's going to last is anyone's guess, answers vary.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?719681

    Buying directly through Arc (the website, not the program) usually prevents this.
  • alisi1alisi1 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Buying Zen through Steam causes a TON of problems, and in the future, I would recommend just not doing so if it can at all be avoided. When you buy Zen through Steam you automatically end up 'on probation'. How long it's going to last is anyone's guess, answers vary.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?719681

    Buying directly through Arc usually prevents this.

    Ty for the answer. I don't use steam so I was wondering if he was just bugged. Good to know though.
  • chinspinnerchinspinner Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Buying Zen through Steam causes a TON of problems, and in the future, I would recommend just not doing so if it can at all be avoided. When you buy Zen through Steam you automatically end up 'on probation'. How long it's going to last is anyone's guess, answers vary.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?719681

    Buying directly through Arc (the website, not the program) usually prevents this.

    That is crazy. There is clearly an agreement in place for Zen to be purchased via the Steam store, and they have received my payment. This is how the world operates, goods are sold by retailers... without a bloody wait before you are allowed to use them. I can only assume this is a ruse to prevent people from using Steam for purchases and the legality of it is questionable.
    My new quest:

    WIP
  • k3ll0k3ll0 Member Posts: 373 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Nobody likes paying a middleman if they can avoid it, and PW obviously and none too subtly tries to discourage people from working via such.

    Also, not like Valve has sued them over the matter or anything. And their legal team >>>>>> your Intarnets lawyer sk33lz.
  • darkstarcrashdarkstarcrash Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,382 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    That is crazy. There is clearly an agreement in place for Zen to be purchased via the Steam store, and they have received my payment. This is how the world operates, goods are sold by retailers... without a bloody wait before you are allowed to use them. I can only assume this is a ruse to prevent people from using Steam for purchases and the legality of it is questionable.

    The thing with Steam is they hold all the purchase money in escrow until the end of the month, and then send it to PWE in a lump sum.

    So there is a stretch of time where the purchaser has Zen, but PWE does not have your money. PWE can't confirm the validity of your purchase, because they don't have your credit card information or whatever, Steam does. So, to minimize being burned by charge-backs, etc., PWE puts your account on probation.

    During your probation, any Zen items you buy will be account-bound, and you are limited on AH purchases.

    It sucks, but PWE needs to protect itself.
  • trill34trill34 Member Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It sucks, but PWE needs to protect itself.

    No, PWE needs to provide service to their paying customers. If they can't handle Steam-related billbacks then they shouldn't put their game on Steam. I've never encountered this with other game companies that allow you to purchase virtual currency through Steam.
  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It could be something to do with this - http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?719681
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
  • linoge63linoge63 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 373 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    trill34 wrote: »
    No, PWE needs to provide service to their paying customers. If they can't handle Steam-related billbacks then they shouldn't put their game on Steam. I've never encountered this with other game companies that allow you to purchase virtual currency through Steam.

    Very good point...

    This world truly needs more intell business entities..
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited May 2015
    As others have pointed out it has to do with the fact you purchased Zen with Steam.

    When you purchase Zen with Steam you get your purchase instantly but PWE does not have verification that your purchase was valid for a period of time. Until your purchase is verified you will not be able to purchase more Zen via the Steam Store but you should have no issues purchasing it directly through the Zen Shop.

    Quite honestly, as a player, this is the much better means to pay for any MMO for reasons already pointed out in this thread by other users. I love steam for the single player and co-op experience but I don't think using it to pay for an MMO is a good practice whether there is an agreement or not.
  • chinspinnerchinspinner Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    linoge63 wrote: »
    Very good point...

    This world truly needs more intell business entities..

    I agree with Trill, if you bought a tin of soup and were told to return to the supermarket to pick it up in three weeks after Heinz have received your payment there would be more than a few complaints. Why should it be different for PW?
    My new quest:

    WIP
  • chinspinnerchinspinner Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    As others have pointed out it has to do with the fact you purchased Zen with Steam.

    When you purchase Zen with Steam you get your purchase instantly but PWE does not have verification that your purchase was valid for a period of time. Until your purchase is verified you will not be able to purchase more Zen via the Steam Store but you should have no issues purchasing it directly through the Zen Shop.

    Quite honestly, as a player, this is the much better means to pay for any MMO for reasons already pointed out in this thread by other users. I love steam for the single player and co-op experience but I don't think using it to pay for an MMO is a good practice whether there is an agreement or not.

    No, the issue is that I am not allowed to use certain in game items because I purchased a product from a PWE approved retailer. If it is not good practice to use Steam then PWE should not offer their product via Steam. What happens between PWE and Steam is of no interest to me, it is not my job to review the contracts that exist between a manufacturer and a retailer, and as a consumer I should not be penalised because PWE considers these inadequate.

    I would add that the items I am unable to use pre-existed on my character.
    My new quest:

    WIP
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It is not that PWE "considers them inadequate" by any means. It is the simple fact that payments through Steam are NOT considered final and verified until the money has been received from Valve. Transactions through Steam are NOT directly paid to PWE. What happens is that Valve charges the customer for ZEN at PWE's full price on their behalf. What Valve is actually paying is a pre-negotiated rate in bulk. They then transmit the user information along with the bulk payment to PWE for a given time period, so that PWE can then finalize the transaction for the period provided.

    In short, the money goes from the player's CC to Valve. Valve takes their prenegotiated cut, and then transmits the rest to PWE en masse. PWE then finalizes the transaction based on the information provided by Valve.

    Whether or not "you care about how businesses work", knowing HOW the process works can be helpful and alleviate a LOT of headaches in the future.

    This is how payment verification works with ANY merchant. The measures are not in place to "inconvenience the customer" but to protect PWE from fradulent credit card use. When you've had to eat several MILLION dollars in losses due to fradulent purchases, putting some kind of security measure in place would outweigh any potential inconveniences, unfortunately, and they reserve the right to institute the procedures they--not we--deem fit. PWE institutes the exact same practice for direct credit card purchases, however, credit card purchases are usually finalized within 3-5 business days, but can take up to 10 in some cases.

    Because some have chosen to abuse the system for illegitimate reasons, everyone has to deal with the measures put in place to minimize such abuse. Such is life.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

    PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
  • chinspinnerchinspinner Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Then I repeat, PWE should not be using Steam or should be providing appropriate warnings to those intending to purchase from Steam as part of the purchasing process.
    My new quest:

    WIP
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Then I repeat, PWE should not be using Steam or should be providing appropriate warnings to those intending to purchase from Steam as part of the purchasing process.

    It isn't JUST Steam. It's ALL new or unverified payment sources. If you're using a credit card for the first time, for example, you'll run into the same restrictions.

    As I said, the actions of those who would illegitimately use credit cards for theft have resulted in this requirement for ALL customers, in order for PWE to protect itself from liability and loss.

    I'll requote myself here for emphasis:
    Because some have chosen to abuse the system for illegitimate reasons, everyone has to deal with the measures put in place to minimize such abuse. Such is life.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

    PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
  • chinspinnerchinspinner Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I don't mean to go on here, but the payment is authorised and the money has left my account. I have fulfilled my end of the bargain. Any issue from here on in is between Steam and PWE. Any delay from here on in is between Steam and PWE. It has nothing to do with the possibility of my card being fraudulent.
    My new quest:

    WIP
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I don't mean to go on here, but the payment is authorised and the money has left my account. I have fulfilled my end of the bargain. Any issue from here on in is between Steam and PWE. Any delay from here on in is between Steam and PWE. It has nothing to do with the possibility of my card being fraudulent.

    Problem is, PWE doesn't know that until the money is in their hands. Bear in mind that for Steam purchases, Valve is the merchant that deals with your CC issuer--NOT PWE. Therefore, PWE does NOT receive your credit card information as there are two transactions involved here. One is the transaction between your CC issuer and Valve for the purchase of the ZEN. This is processed as a credit card transaction normally would, and finalizes (or "hard posts") to your account within 5-10 business days.

    (TL;DR: When you purchase ZEN from Valve, it's two steps. The first step happens like a normal credit card purchase would. However, there's more involved.)

    The second transaction does not involve the end user, but a bulk payment by Valve to PWE based on a predetermined rate. In this transaction, Valve ONLY provides the ingame account information (read: NOT CC number) to PWE so that PWE is notified of the accounts that have purchased ZEN for the time frame in which Valve is submitting payment. The credit card info is NOT remitted to PWE, as PWE is NOT the payment processor, and in such case has no legitimate reason for the information to be sent to them.

    (TL;DR : Valve sends PWE a check and a list of player accounts that have made a ZEN purchase on an agreed-upon interval, but does NOT send the CC information.)

    This is where the probation period comes in (as well as the reason why it affects Steam users far more regularly than direct CC payments): As PWE does NOT receive your credit card information, but only notice that you have purchased ZEN and Valve has verified the payment, PWE has no way of knowing if the ZEN you just purchased on Steam is from a valid card. Again, in the matter of Steam transactions, it is Valve, not PWE, that handles the verification of payments posted. Until the payment has been remitted to PWE for that account, PWE has to assume that the payment is made from an unverified method--regardless of how many times Valve has processed that method on their end. Thus, the restriction is applied in each case that a purchase is made on Steam.

    It's not so much an issue of the business relationship between Valve and PWE as the fact of how the actual transaction takes place.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

    PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Maybe, just as as a suggestion to avoid this ever-repeating issue it could be possible add some kind of "warning" label, pre-payment, to the payment dialog???

    Basically, IMHO that would be the minimally appropriate thing to do.

    Because if I e.g. get the bill from public services and I say "OK, yay, You deserve you money, but well, I'll pay at the end of the month, because my neighbor has been without electricity for a day two years ago" you can guess what their reaction would be...
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,183 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Let me put it this way. Whatever reason PWE wants to present, they do not behave like any other game vendors using Steam service for purchase as any normal consumer would expect. Although it is PWE's own funny practice and they probably have the right to do so, it is not in industrial norm and is far from any normal consumer's expectation.
    I also don't know any internet vendor will need to take 5 business day to clear a credit card transaction. Most of them is instant.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    plasticbat wrote: »
    Let me put it this way. Whatever reason PWE wants to present, they do not behave like any other game vendors using Steam service for purchase as any normal consumer would expect. Although it is PWE's own funny practice and they probably have the right to do so, it is not in industrial norm and is far from any normal consumer's expectation.
    I also don't know any internet vendor will need to take 5 business day to clear a credit card transaction. Most of them is instant.

    You may see the charge posted to your card, but I assure you that the payment is not "instant". There's a difference between a pending transaction and a hard posted one. Simply because the money is deducted from your available credit or balance does not mean the transaction is finalized. What usually happens is that the amount of your transaction is pre-authorized and "held" until the actual transaction processing is completed.

    Again, it is not "PWE's funny practice". As explained before, VALVE, not PWE, is the merchant actually processing your credit card transaction at the time of purchase. Valve is charging the full amount of the ZEN as if the ZEN was actually being purchased directly from PWE, but you are paying VALVE for the transaction. Valve then remits their negotiated price to PWE as actual payment for the ZEN in bulk.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

    PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,183 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    You may see the charge posted to your card, but I assure you that the payment is not "instant". There's a difference between a pending transaction and a hard posted one. Simply because the money is deducted from your available credit or balance does not mean the transaction is finalized. What usually happens is that the amount of your transaction is pre-authorized and "held" until the actual transaction processing is completed.

    Again, it is not "PWE's funny practice". As explained before, VALVE, not PWE, is the merchant actually processing your credit card transaction at the time of purchase. Valve is charging the full amount of the ZEN as if the ZEN was actually being purchased directly from PWE, but you are paying VALVE for the transaction. Valve then remits their negotiated price to PWE as actual payment for the ZEN in bulk.

    My point was what is the difference between PWE and other game producers who also use Valve service. Why are those company able to do that instantly (no, they may not get the money right at that moment but they allow their product be used instantly) and PWE cannot? There is only one answer for me. It is PWE chose that way although it is not the norm.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    plasticbat wrote: »
    My point was what is the difference between PWE and other game producers who also use Valve service. Why are those company able to do that instantly (no, they may not get the money right at that moment but they allow their product be used instantly) and PWE cannot? There is only one answer for me. It is PWE chose that way although it is not the norm.

    Then allow me to pose this question to you: If you were the one eating a ton of losses due to credit card fraud, wouldn't you want to lock down the ZEN purchased until you received the payment in full and verified?

    That's what PWE is doing. Until the money is received from Valve, they want to make sure that ZEN is locked in place until the money is verified as good. (e.g. not from a fraudulent charge or a stolen card)

    Re-reading your post, though, I don't think you entirely understand what I'm saying. Valve processes your payment through your CC provider, not PWE. The length of time to finalize the payment has absolutely NOTHING to do with the part where Valve sends their payment to PWE. PWE sends Valve an invoice for ZEN purchases made through them and Valve sends the money that they have agreed to pay PWE for the ZEN. Since the credit card information is never sent to PWE (again, that's already been handled by Valve) PWE cannot verify Steam purchases by credit card information. Therefore, the probation period hits Steam purchases every time because PWE is forced to assume that all such purchases are made through unverified methods.

    The bolded portion is due to CC issuer regulations. Credit card numbers are literally treated on a "need-to-know" basis. If the transaction can be handled between Valve and PWE without the exchange of CC info, that is the requirement. Less parties handling sensitive info = more security for that info.

    The bottom line, though, is this: Whether we agree with it, think it's an inconvenience or otherwise, it boils down to an agreement between two businesses about how a bulk transaction is handled. Ultimately, we have no say over how this is done. Whether you, or I, or anyone else thinks it should be done a different way is largely irrelevant and inconsequential; the two businesses involved (Valve and PWE) have arranged matters in a fashion that, in their judgement, is based on sound business principle.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

    PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
  • alisi1alisi1 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    So wouldn't the loss be steams if the money wasn't there? They buy it in bulk from cryptic for a discount. What does cryptic care if steam gets screwed? Surely cryptic didn't agree to a deal to where steam gets the zen up front and then takes the hit on fraudulent charges.
  • allself44allself44 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    PWE cannot verify Steam purchases by credit card information, because PWE thinks that Steam/Valve cannot verify their own credit card information? Why doesn’t PWE trust Steam/Valve.

    Answer: because all companies inherently don’t trust one another. Meaning every company is in business for their own self interest, eager to steal profits from any other company to stay in business. Its all about competition, not cooperation.

    If everyone cooperated, they can get a lot more done. Competition is a flawed model for humanity to live by, resulting in haves and have nots. It divides people, pitting groups, cities, nations against each other.
    Shining on the stupidity of it all, in all its glory
    Was going with that for sig, but changed my mind. Or did I?
  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    This is all nice and well, again.

    But so I ask again: Doesn't the buyer deserve a hint at that it might take some time until his delivery is made? Like, a popup dialog box?

    Finding out about that afterwards, without any up-front notice just causes dissatisfaction, bad feeling and unnecessary forum threads. Also, a dissatisfied, wary customer will be less likely to contribute repeat business, and a sour aftertaste will always remain...
  • chinspinnerchinspinner Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    To me it is simple- if there is a history of delay when purchasing via Steam then the customer should be warned about it prior to purchase.

    PWE can explain time and again why they operate differently to most other company that use Steam, but it does not explain why they do not warn the customer of the delays or account restrictions associated with purchasing PWE products via Steam.
    My new quest:

    WIP
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    After few purchases, you will be able to use ZAX without any delay.
    Still I feel your pain, but it is how it is.
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • ashnvfashnvf Member Posts: 294 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It is not that PWE "considers them inadequate" by any means. It is the simple fact that payments through Steam are NOT considered final and verified until the money has been received from Valve. .

    That is just bogus. So if you buy a car from a dealer, you shouldn't get the key till the car manufacturer gets it's money from the dealer?

    The bottom line is, IF Valve is an official reseller of Zen for PWE (I.e. officially approved), you should get your in game currency as soon as you buy it on Steam. If that is not the case, and PWE can't "verify" the payment till a later point in time, then Steam should not be an official reseller of Zen.

    Think about it for a second. If you get better and faster service buying from bots than from an official source, don't you think there is a BIG issue with their methodology?
  • twoedge1twoedge1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    This change affected me as well and I was quite disappointed with it. Before they implemented this last year I was purchasing all my zen through steam wallet. It doesn't matter how much you buy. Buy $5.00 worth of zen, one week probation. All zen is put in probation not just the zen you buy. They also don't track your purchase history through steam. You can have a history of several months of good credit purchasing through steam you will still be placed on probation.

    In the end I gave up on it and signed up with ARC. It's not all bad, you at least get a bonus for purchasing some zen packages through arc which you do not get through steam.

    You can always send steam a message about the issue, maybe at some point they will make a change that will address it. In the end steam is the one getting screwed out of money. As a user we have other options for us, even though it may not be as convenient.
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