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So this is what it comes down to.

arcanaxearcanaxe Member Posts: 192 Arc User
edited April 2015 in General Discussion (PC)
Half the people complaining how broken the game is now, and the other half is complaining unplayable the game is, this goes without saying the (x)% of people who left because of the worst Mod up to date.

Complaints everywhere, there is nothing good to read on the forums anymore. Normally a person can come here and read interesting facts about the game etc. But now its from bugs, zen complaints, mod complaints, no feedback from dev complaints etc.

In my honest opinion this game needed a reboot, and that is just what they did. The huge amount of bugs that is currently in game is to be expected when you launch a new module. It's been only a week give it some time. The dev team don't always respond to most of the stuff, but believe me the are reading the forums.

The new content is hard, I know. Will I spend any money on the game as the game is now, of course not, but wait and while and see what happens, maybe they will iron these stuff out(lets hope). Until then lets create some positive feedback of some good response for the community to read again.
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  • edited April 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tousseau wrote: »
    I will just say...

    Many of the bugs that made it to the live server had been reported on during the test runs. Despite those reports, the devs have knowingly released this mod (resulting in a product that feels quite unfinished), complete with these bugs. Many, it seems are exploitable.

    So yes... people are not happy.

    It is, and will always be, a game of balance in regards to when a product is released. Eventually, the powers that be are going to say "either release what you have or look for new jobs". Marketing wants a product to release. The QA team wants a perfect product. There has to be a happy medium in there somewhere. Sometimes you have to put out whatever you have and brace yourself for the storm that follows, working on the future in the meantime. I'm fairly certain that Panderus knew that there were still some things that needed addressing but not enough to justify another postponement of mod 6 launch--hence the statement about having a build they wanted to get out on the 23rd (and I really want to stress that's a target date they had in mind--it shouldn't be taken as set in stone).
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

    PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    From my view, Mod 6 has made all gear we've accumulated so far all but obsolete, effectively removed a lot of the variety from the game (Armor Set bonuses to mention the foremost example), made it all but impossible to keep more than one or maybe two toons in fighting trim via excessive refinement demands. And in exchange given us a few dozen new monster types, which aren't really benigned with the sharpest AI in the game, and a few new skills and feats, some of which are buggy again, and some of which are rather subpar.

    Laggy, buggy, recycled maps overcrowded with those new monster types, rolled up the other way round - which doesn't make them better. Heck, even my old, existing companions go buggy...

    Why in heavens name should I be anything else but "not amused"???
  • drezzatdrezzat Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    tousseau wrote: »
    I will just say...

    Many of the bugs that made it to the live server had been reported on during the test runs. Despite those reports, the devs have knowingly released this mod (resulting in a product that feels quite unfinished), complete with these bugs. Many, it seems are exploitable.

    So yes... people are not happy.

    You know this kind of stuff started a long time ago with software and I don't know why people, including myself, put up with it. you buy a game or an application, like maybe hmmmm windows? And it don;t work right so you have to wait for updates to make it right, sometimes again and again or continually. And they certainly will not take a game back that is buggy no they covered that little loophole right off. You buy a game or software and it's buggy or it just sucks there are no returns baby. And yet we continue to purchase and put up with inferior, incomplete or defective products as a rule. I mean would you do that with , say , a car?
    What if you bought a car that wouldn't turn left whe you got it? The company says well we will have a guy coming out wiht and update in a week or so so just make 3 rights when you need to turn left until we get the update ...LMAO
    But people still rush out to buy new games first or pre order them at full price knowing there will be bugs. It has made many of us tho, wait a month or so til the 60 dollar games come down to 50% or less even. So many people do this game manufacturers are now using tactics to make people buy their defective products such as the game pass to play online. The new game comes with it but the used or later games do not. just ridiculous what will accept these days.
    Having said that, a free game should still work but I guess a free game should get a little slack
  • phr33d0m123phr33d0m123 Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    From my view, Mod 6 has made all gear we've accumulated so far all but obsolete, effectively removed a lot of the variety from the game (Armor Set bonuses to mention the foremost example), made it all but impossible to keep more than one or maybe two toons in fighting trim via excessive refinement demands. And in exchange given us a few dozen new monster types, which aren't really benigned with the sharpest AI in the game, and a few new skills and feats, some of which are buggy again, and some of which are rather subpar.

    Laggy, buggy, recycled maps overcrowded with those new monster types, rolled up the other way round - which doesn't make them better. Heck, even my old, existing companions go buggy...

    Why in heavens name should I be anything else but "not amused"???

    I'll just quote this. I have nothing else to say and couldn't have said it better.
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    drezzat wrote: »
    Having said that, a free game should still work but I guess a free game should get a little slack

    This part is what I take issue with. It fuels the argument of "it's a free game, so it's going to be inferior to a sub-based game". Problem is...how many sub-based games you see anymore that aren't either a) WoW or b) a niche game?

    Free to play or some hybridized version thereof seems to be the way the MMO industry is going. When the entire industry is F2P, what then?

    Also, I've seen patches and fixes that make me facepalm from sub-based games just as much (I played FFXI for about 7 years prior to NW). If you're going to grade a game as good or bad, then do so on its own merits, not just from its revenue stream alone.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

    PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
  • ogariousogarious Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    At the same time the hit they're taking is in the area they can least afford to take it. The player base. The decision should have been this. Either we delay things and put out a working mod and frustrate the people who hold the purse strings, or....We release the mod and lose the player base, and then frustrate the people who hold the purse strings...
    They took the second choice, and if you ask me it was obviously the wrong one. Myself I haven't touched the game in days, the lag in the new zones and bordem of doing the same missions over again are keeping me away pretty effectively.

    The people talking against the new zones and missions in contrast to the people who are for them appears to be a 30 to 1 ratio, so Neverwinter doesn't have that going for it.

    Neverwinter went from a game (Pre mod 6) where the haves could do everything without any problems and the have nots struggled with everything to a (Post mod 6) where the haves and have nots both cant do the content unless they huddle together in full groups and get a lucky break with the lag.

    If the purpose of this mod was to close the gap between the two groups (First of all, why!?) congratulations, now everybody gets to be frustrated with the game. Good business model.
  • fastrean3fastrean3 Member Posts: 281 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I can stand with current mod and suffer those bugs/bad contents and still wish/waiting they fix/improve those issues, but the server's stability, the lag , the disconnect make the game unplayable!
  • fdsakhfduewhfiuffdsakhfduewhfiuf Member Posts: 604 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    arcanaxe wrote: »
    In my honest opinion this game needed a reboot, and that is just what they did.

    I agree. The old stat curves were hitting a wall - apart from power and HP.

    But the reboot was done halfhearted. They should have taken the time and adjust level 1-60 too. How is a new player supposed to understand that he gets weaker and weaker after level 60? There is no gear to compensate for the loss the new stat curves bring.
  • matthiasthehun76matthiasthehun76 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    It is, and will always be, a game of balance in regards to when a product is released. Eventually, the powers that be are going to say "either release what you have or look for new jobs". Marketing wants a product to release. The QA team wants a perfect product. There has to be a happy medium in there somewhere. Sometimes you have to put out whatever you have and brace yourself for the storm that follows, working on the future in the meantime. I'm fairly certain that Panderus knew that there were still some things that needed addressing but not enough to justify another postponement of mod 6 launch--hence the statement about having a build they wanted to get out on the 23rd (and I really want to stress that's a target date they had in mind--it shouldn't be taken as set in stone).

    While i still can't find any nice words for what has been done, i appreciate your response.

    We needed this and not "just" from you, but from a Dev or a Management Team official, who made this bad choice.

    Sadly damage has been done, guilds in ruins and many people lost faith, still i personally thank you for talking at last with us.

    Talk is a progress, a huge one.

    People got angry in first place, cause we didn't hear a single word.

    Now if you could only forward to them, work like Speedy Gonzales and i would advise something as a person, who's job is interaction with many customers, get something, even the slightest thing and give it as a small present, a token of coming good intentions. (We do it so here and it works like a charm!;))
    The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
    Robert E. Lee

    I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
    Winston Churchill

    The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
    David Icke

  • magnusolammagnusolam Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 82
    edited April 2015
    ogarious wrote: »
    Either we delay things and put out a working mod and frustrate the people who hold the purse strings, or....We release the mod and lose the player base, and then frustrate the people who hold the purse strings... Good business model.
    Relax they found a new revenue stream...the Powries. Now they get to kick player butt they're investing heavily (of course if the player base gets too low they might lose interest...hmmm). But for now, the Powries will save Neverwinter!!
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Honestly, the most insulting part of this mod is the gear. Not only did they make everything we have useless, but they now turned getting gear into another horrible grind fest.
  • cloud990plcloud990pl Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Are you surprised it came to this? New things doesn't bring anything new and old things are "the same". Nothing was improved:
    -Was something done about refinement?
    -Was something done about boss mechanics?
    -Was scaling done properly?
    -Were previous campaigns updated?
    -Were rewards for new encounters updated (upfrade from R4 to R5 doesn't count)?
    Instead you have:
    -More profession grinding
    -More RP farming
    -More boring XP farming
    -Same dungeons with stronger enemies and messed up loot tables (Valindra didn't drop anything for me but seals of shadowmantle for 4 times and I can't do anything with them).

    Game is not being improved but instead its packed with more of the same stuff so tell me why people should be happy about it?
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    First and foremost these things need to be done ASAP.

    1. Put seals back into pvp, what a lark guys.
    2. Fix bloodtheft, this week, (it needs to be half as effective in pvp , AT least if not more)
    3. Fix lag in spinward, its hard to stay in there.
    4. Add effective way for players to earn salvage again, you should be rewarded for your time. Dropping blues even in the t1s is a disgrace, they are MUCH harder. Players that play should be rewarded, not penalized.
    5. Dragon Hoard drop effects seem to be not working right.. like at all in certain areas (somehow did all of arcane reservoir today with zero.. ZERO drops for the hoards in place on lvl 70 gear.

    There has to be a fine line between hard and un-doable, if you WANT to leave the difficulty level in place, ok , reward the effort. Also, PLEASE increase limit on DDs, 1600 and 2k is too little, it should be like 2000 and 2500. Tiamat should be at least 2500 as well.

    That is a huge issue atm. Its not that gear item level is everything.. but you make is too easy to enter and it hurts everyone. a 1600 GF is going to get rolled in two seconds in most t1s, even with a DC support.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    cloud990pl wrote: »
    Are you surprised it came to this? New things doesn't bring anything new and old things are "the same". Nothing was improved:
    -Was something done about refinement?
    -Was something done about boss mechanics?
    -Was scaling done properly?
    -Were previous campaigns updated?
    -Were rewards for new encounters updated (upfrade from R4 to R5 doesn't count)?
    Instead you have:
    -More profession grinding
    -More RP farming
    -More boring XP farming
    -Same dungeons with stronger enemies and messed up loot tables (Valindra didn't drop anything for me but seals of shadowmantle for 4 times and I can't do anything with them).

    Game is not being improved but instead its packed with more of the same stuff so tell me why people should be happy about it?

    RP farming is still a major issue, Ill agree with that, however, its too early to see full return of leadership will provide in that area, we have to wait a month or two to see return on it.

    I still do not like the process, its too gated, too much and it requires to much time, it locks you out of alt play, especially now.
  • neirgaraneirgara Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    silverkelt wrote: »
    5. Dragon Hoard drop effects seem to be not working right.. like at all in certain areas (somehow did all of arcane reservoir today with zero.. ZERO drops for the hoards in place on lvl 70 gear.

    Dragon Hoard drops are collected automatically now. They don't lie around but are added directly to your inventory instead. You can still see them in the little pictures of freshly collected items.

    You should empty your inventory of stones and check it again after some farming. :)
  • stevedudemanstevedudeman Member Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Having been around STO for 4 season releases, I have (very slowly) learned to be patient with new expansions by Cryptic. Let them patch things up over the next few weeks and then decide if it's good or not. Some of the bugs are very annoying but really, Cryptic releasing unfinished content is nothing new. I knew delaying 3 weeks wasn't going to do much... Unfortunately, until MMO's are somehow regulated, this is how it's gonna be...
  • haelrahaelra Member Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I'm trying hard to convince myself that it's worth staying and continuing. I'm not a high-end player; my best is usually the lower-end of the top tier. Prior to Mod-6, I had one character I had invested my time and effort into; I had Tier-2 gear from back when it was fairly plentiful; I had a few rank 7 regular enchants and even a "Greater" weapon and armor enchantment. I could run dungeons, but did so very rarely since the difficulty level, while doable, simply wasn't fun to me. I preferred the campaign areas, at a fairly casual level, sometimes partnered with a friend or two; and sometimes some foundry adventures. It's a fun game, or was until Mod-6. Normally, with a substantial game update in any game I play, I buy some convenience items from their cash shop as a way of 'paying my way' as a satisfied customer. I'm not doing that this time.

    There's still a lot of promise here, but I think it needs some serious tuning. The lag and server performance issues need to be resolved. Half my characters powers don't seem to work right, and Neverwinter requires some decent timing, like any action game, and the current latency problems fail to support this game model. Players will accept severe difficulty, they will develop the eye-hand, keyboard and mousing skills to meet those challenges, but the game has to meet them on that too. They will not accept dieing because the server could not keep up with the response timing of the action.

    I think the game is now too harsh on casuals. Sure, people belittle casuals in games, but they're important. If the game is so hard only a few people can play it well, then the developer should not be surprised if fewer people play it. Even free casuals are important, since without them, the community suffers, and the high-end paying players will have less community to keep them. I hope this is a matter of tuning, and that the upcoming patches will address some of it. But in making more room at the top, it feels like we all had twenty levels' worth of capability stripped away from us. Think of it this way: the level cap wasn't increased, it was simply renumbered. 70 is the new 60, and 40 is the old 60, with ten new levels tweaked inside. When there's a level-cap increase in any game, we expect new heights of power to be now achievable; but instead, we got dropped back down to the valley, and have to scale back up just to get to where we were before. I'm hoping this is just a matter of tuning, that the sharp edges can be smoothed out, but I fear it isn't. I think that's a mistake for any broad appeal game to regress the progression curve, but an especially grave mistake for the heir to the online D&D franchise.
  • neirgaraneirgara Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    b3llist0r wrote: »
    How can one companion of same rarity give double the bonus of a companion of the same rarity (Dancing Blade/Erinye)?

    One is available only through a special Booster Pack, the other is available for free. What sense does a special promotion or an exclusive booster pack make, if the content is not special or exclusive? So nothing to balance there.

    Also I don't see a bug with Vorpal debuff. For me it seems to work correctly, granting 50% reduces defense and 20% reduced strength to targets (I don't find this funny but creepy and insane). Only "bug" I see is the wrong tooltip. But tooltips have been incomplete or wrong for a long time. It's some kind of a tradition in this game, it seems. :)
  • generaldiomedesgeneraldiomedes Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I have no doubt the layoffs affected the quality of the release, but I don't think it would have affected the 60-70 level grind, or the new maps, or the stat balancing, or pushing the end game out to 70, etc. Those decisions were already made I presume.

    We may have gotten less bugs, more communication (being real optimistic there), all the levelling dungeons would have been retrofitted to three-man, less lag, stuff like that. Would it have been enough?
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    neirgara wrote: »
    One is available only through a special Booster Pack, the other is available for free. What sense does a special promotion or an exclusive booster pack make, if the content is not special or exclusive? So nothing to balance there.

    Also I don't see a bug with Vorpal debuff. For me it seems to work correctly, granting 50% reduces defense and 20% reduced strength to targets (I don't find this funny but creepy and insane). Only "bug" I see is the wrong tooltip. But tooltips have been incomplete or wrong for a long time. It's some kind of a tradition in this game, it seems. :)

    Its not 20 percent but 2 at pure and at trascendent and those are even bugged in strange ways.
    Red glyphs for example do more damage with perfect vorpal and like 30 damage less/tick with pure
  • neirgaraneirgara Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    rayrdan wrote: »
    Its not 20 percent but 2 at pure and at trascendent and those are even bugged in strange ways.
    Red glyphs for example do more damage with perfect vorpal and like 30 damage less/tick with pure

    This is weird. The additional damage I deal after critical hits seems to be something around 50% and the reduce of damage seems to be high enough to think it is more than 20% (though with the incoming damage I'm not sure as it is difficult to check)

    But if it works strange with other components, then perhaps it's some power or item I'm using?

    They definititely should look into it. (But I prefer if they prioritize the lag in Spinward Rise and the PVP Seals)
  • drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    As much as I m not pleased with the current bugs... the dc's during PvP, the lag and the grinding... Lew has a point, actually a few valid points. I played WoW for years... and got sick of the "blah, blah, blah" rhetoric from the elite raiding people.

    All content has to start somewhere. We also have to remember that Cryptic has employees that need to be paid, supporters that need to be satisfied with the forward motion of the game. A stagnant game is a dead game. We will all adapt, or we won't, but things will not always be perfect. In fact no one ever promised perfection at all times.

    We have to be patient and understand that just like everyone has to earn their artifacts, the devs need to do what they need to do in order to make everyone happy. There is no use *****ing about it during the first weeks... because it will not change things as they are now. All we can do is offer constructive criticism and hope that they had the time to fix OUR specific complaints.

    If we do not send bug reports, when we see an issue, then we do not want to help. We just want to sit and play for free.

    Since the release of Mod 6, I have reported at least 3 to 4 different bug reports a day. Posting in the Forum helps you get support for your cause, but it may not actually do anything to change things in the future.

    We don't ever ask for the heads of the Weatherperson who tells us that it will be sunny all week, when it rains every day. All we can do is accept what is, for now, adapt to it and address the issues as we see them to the powers that be. Otherwise, it creates extra bull**** in our lives that we may not need.

    As every parent knows... pick your battles. Off support and a different POV, when it is not worth fighting against something.

    We are all in this together... trust me... the devs are in the **** until many of these things are fixed.
    ez0sf4K.png
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  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    neirgara wrote: »
    One is available only through a special Booster Pack, the other is available for free. What sense does a special promotion or an exclusive booster pack make, if the content is not special or exclusive? So nothing to balance there.

    Dancing Blade for free? Really? I was ripped off big time then coz the cow at the Bizarre of Wonders charged me 700k AD for it...Gimme a refund now!
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • neirgaraneirgara Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    lirithiel wrote: »
    Dancing Blade for free? Really? I was ripped off big time then coz the cow at the Bizarre of Wonders charged me 700k AD for it...Gimme a refund now!

    Sorry, my bad. I forgot that some people only want to rant. Otherwise I would have worded it with less need for you to think and understand.

    What I meant (and thus should have said) is:

    "CAN be free, with which I mean, is obtainable without the need to invest real money."
  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    neirgara wrote: »
    "CAN be free, with which I mean, is obtainable without the need to invest real money."

    But then so can the SW booster be bought without spending an actual dime on the game. Still doesn't make it free ;)
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • soditalloversoditallover Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 88 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I can’t stand the argument that an item, any item is free no such thing as a free lunch.
    How much is your time worth really think about it factor in power costs hardware housing internet charges tax’s all totalled you spend with or without spending a penny on the Zen currency. Now say its free, it is far far from free some items are and still is cheaper to spend real cash on some aren’t but don’t be fooled into thinking you time energy and life is worthless. Cos as soon as you think an hour of your or anybody’s time is free your wrong dead wrong.
  • djarkaandjarkaan Member Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I can’t stand the argument that an item, any item is free no such thing as a free lunch.
    How much is your time worth really think about it factor in power costs hardware housing internet charges tax’s all totalled you spend with or without spending a penny on the Zen currency. Now say its free, it is far far from free some items are and still is cheaper to spend real cash on some aren’t but don’t be fooled into thinking you time energy and life is worthless. Cos as soon as you think an hour of your or anybody’s time is free your wrong dead wrong.

    You can spend a child's entire childhood and teenhood trying to explain it to them, but they won't understand until they have to pay their own bills.
  • edited April 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • katbozejziemikatbozejziemi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 856 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    drkbodhi wrote: »
    As much as I m not pleased with the current bugs... the dc's during PvP, the lag and the grinding... Lew has a point, actually a few valid points. I played WoW for years... and got sick of the "blah, blah, blah" rhetoric from the elite raiding people.

    All content has to start somewhere. We also have to remember that Cryptic has employees that need to be paid, supporters that need to be satisfied with the forward motion of the game. A stagnant game is a dead game. We will all adapt, or we won't, but things will not always be perfect. In fact no one ever promised perfection at all times.

    We have to be patient and understand that just like everyone has to earn their artifacts, the devs need to do what they need to do in order to make everyone happy. There is no use *****ing about it during the first weeks... because it will not change things as they are now. All we can do is offer constructive criticism and hope that they had the time to fix OUR specific complaints.

    If we do not send bug reports, when we see an issue, then we do not want to help. We just want to sit and play for free.

    Since the release of Mod 6, I have reported at least 3 to 4 different bug reports a day. Posting in the Forum helps you get support for your cause, but it may not actually do anything to change things in the future.

    We don't ever ask for the heads of the Weatherperson who tells us that it will be sunny all week, when it rains every day. All we can do is accept what is, for now, adapt to it and address the issues as we see them to the powers that be. Otherwise, it creates extra bull**** in our lives that we may not need.

    As every parent knows... pick your battles. Off support and a different POV, when it is not worth fighting against something.

    We are all in this together... trust me... the devs are in the **** until many of these things are fixed.
    You'd have a point if it weren't for the fact that this content was on preview for months and hundreds of thread pages of feedback have been written. This did not come out of nowhere.
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