(and I have no respect for any HRs using red glyphs...)
While I can agree with ur other points to an extend, what do u do these days when premade vs premade and GFs/CWs/other HRS using these glyphs? Do u stand afk in spawn? Or have u just stopped pvp?
If its the latter, then ur a hypocrite, because u dont take part in actually gameplay but still judging people who do. If its the former, ur honor may shine, but ur loosing the game for ur team.
I tested without and with glyphs, and not using them means sure defeat against any very good HR who uses them and u dont.
Are they stupid OP? Yes. And 1000 times more than PB. You stated that urself: the dmg output will be only marginal lower with the nerf of PB, and will depend more on the targets immunity frames and resistances, favoring some classes and some not (poor CWs...).
But as we will see, all the crybabies will not stop even with the nerf because HRs will still shred people in seconds, because of glyphs and their fast attack speed. The PB nerf will accomplish NOTHING in the current meta. Mark my words.
Premades are a joke with red glyphs these days. There's not any point to doing premades when everyone's cheesing with glyphs. But yes, I do pvp.
Also, red glyphs will be getting fixed in the future, possibly around the time piercing gets fixed, so while you do have a valid point about PB being overshadowed by glyphs, when both are toned down things should be a BIT better.
Regardless of red glyphs or not, piercing blade should get fixed. Both PB and red glyphs are cheese mechanics and should not have been introduced into the game the way they are now.
And just how are you supposed to deal with losing the only source of damage for a damage dealing class?
It will be unplayable unless other powers/feats are buffed or un-nerfed.
We're not losing the 'only source of damage' at all. It's still there, just working as intended. There is no way anyone can justify PB hitting targets through damage immunity or hitting targets that actually DODGE the triggering power. Likewise the change to doing 40% of the damage post-DR rather than pre-DR. It's just common sense.
In practice this will have little effect on damage against squishier targets (and may actually BOOST DPS in PvE due to stacking debuffs) and a moderate effect against tankier targets. The main change is having to actually HIT targets to damage them, which is a Good Thing.
If I want easy-mode gameplay I take my CW for a spin.
This dude is trashing CWs and HRs since the classes appeared.
Some people have a pathological fear of certain classes/archetypes. There are some guys here that hate GWFs and it shines through all their posts, other hate HRs, and lots and lots seem to hate CWs. GFs were OP for not enough yet to get to hated stage, but I think in time we'll come to that.
Basically nobody hates DCs though and you can see why.
This dude is trashing CWs and HRs since the classes appeared.
Some people have a pathological fear of certain classes/archetypes. There are some guys here that hate GWFs and it shines through all their posts, other hate HRs, and lots and lots seem to hate CWs. GFs were OP for not enough yet to get to hated stage, but I think in time we'll come to that.
Basically nobody hates DCs though and you can see why.
They're cute&cuddly and cannot hurt you.
So there you go, class hate mystery solved
Never understood that attitude myself. I have one of every class except GF at 60 and I enjoy playing them all. Sure, I have my favourites. But I don't hate any class.
Never understood that attitude myself. I have one of every class except GF at 60 and I enjoy playing them all. Sure, I have my favourites. But I don't hate any class.
Never understood that attitude myself. I have one of every class except GF at 60 and I enjoy playing them all. Sure, I have my favourites. But I don't hate any class.
I play mostly CW/HR but do GG daily with GWF, DC and now a lowby CW. Each of these chars I kept at 10K GS-ish. I didn't slot enchants asides from some free Rank 5 that I got for reaching 60 lol and some forthelulz experimenting with a perfect bile GWF yesterday.
I find each of these chars fun. I "hate" CWs when I am on my GWF and HR, I hate HRs when I'm on my GWF, I hate GFs when on my CW.
None of the "hate" being serious.
When my leadership SW, TR and GF clones get to 60, I intend to gear them up in Grim armor and play GG with them as well.
In my opinion playing at least 2 classes at the highest potential you're able to is a great start to get rid of this pathological "antiXclass" feelings. You will come to understand each class has weaknesses and strengths, and still fun to play if you choose to make it fun.
Or you can choose to hate and come to forums and demand nerfs on any class but yours, lol.
I play mostly CW/HR but do GG daily with GWF, DC and now a lowby CW. Each of these chars I kept at 10K GS-ish. I didn't slot enchants asides from some free Rank 5 that I got for reaching 60 lol and some forthelulz experimenting with a perfect bile GWF yesterday.
I find each of these chars fun. I "hate" CWs when I am on my GWF and HR, I hate HRs when I'm on my GWF, I hate GFs when on my CW.
None of the "hate" being serious.
When my leadership SW, TR and GF clones get to 60, I intend to gear them up in Grim armor and play GG with them as well.
In my opinion playing at least 2 classes at the highest potential you're able to is a great start to get rid of this pathological "antiXclass" feelings. You will come to understand each class has weaknesses and strengths, and still fun to play if you choose to make it fun.
Or you can choose to hate and come to forums and demand nerfs on any class but yours, lol.
+1. Somebody here gets it!
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Learn to read... Nerf =/= fix, deal with that and stop crying.
And this is not a "GWF was OP 2 modules, now it's my turn", for the god sake, GWFs are now trash, GFs are being fixed, Assilant was fixed, etc... stop crying, seriously.
Learn to laugh. It helps make life easier.
GWF should nore really complain about were they are now. After mod 2 and 3.
And those GWF who adopted are still good in pvp. Ill return advice - adopt and stop crying.
Stop being so serious dude. HRs are fixed - learn to read right stuff first before perma whine baby.
I know for a fact, that the majority of HR prefer easy mode gameplay and/or i win buttons, i also think this is why they will be quite shocked about their own lack of class understanding, once said class has been brought on par with the other classes. (just like all the roar abusing GWF are useless without said skill, in it's broken version)
Try this: Observe, learn, adapt, instead of relying on broken class mechanics. It works 99% of the time.
I wont argue with you about "Observe, learn, adapt". But to note - this is all that HRs do constantly. each module 2-3 times since all crybabies who can not adapt open milion of such thread to cry who they now to press 2 buttons.
I main a BiS HR and I find any HR that can defend piercing blade ridiculous.
Skill is broken OP on live as it is, same with red glyphs (and I have no respect for any HRs using red glyphs...).
I welcome this fix.
Instead of being a flat 40% damage bonus to all damage pre-mitigation (therefore doesn't take mitigation/deflect/dodge into effect), it's now a 40% damage increase to skills that you LAND. And that's perfectly fine and how it should be.
As do I. HR is my main. Not as close as good as ralexinor but this fix is correct and it should be so. There will be more skill now for HR. That is all. And i do hope that after this devs will focus on other "practically impossible" to dodge things.
Thoose +5% in ACL are for sure comming from broken stuff
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited October 2014
Here is what I see the game has become, a continued indistinguishable class due to continued nerfing and balance issues for pvp. Every major pvp decision impacts pve even more.
Its not that pve is hard, but it becomes increasingly boring by this.
In pvp, EVERY mmo has classes that are better then others, but for some reason , this game, every other class thinks theirs should be that one , instead of just rolling another class, nor have I seen a game bend so far over backwards to appease this crowd.
Frankly, Balance was about 100% closer in mod 3, also, every time there is a game increase of power, it will impact this balance.
YOU can never have 100% balance in this game, nor any other mmo, Ive never seen it in 20 years.
BUT there is things you can do to eliminate some of the need for balance.. 5 on 5 is the worst type of pvp game, if they increase it to ten vs ten in matching, this would help a little with the balance, as #s increase , need for BiS type builds decrease.. The funnest times Ive had in other games pvp were massive open world battles.. 100 vs 100 types.
not saying it has to be that massive, but it really does create a better environment in the end.
I main a BiS HR and I find any HR that can defend piercing blade ridiculous.
Skill is broken OP on live as it is, same with red glyphs (and I have no respect for any HRs using red glyphs...). HR will still be strong after the Piercing Blade nerf but not as broken as it is currently. It'll mean you need to redo parts of your build possibly, and time your skills better instead of spamming things knowing you'll still get a lot of damage even if it gets dodged. At it stands, the only way to avoid damage from Fox Shift is to not be in its range when activated - you still take a lot of damage even if you dodge it because of Piercing Blade, and that's stupid. If you dodge a skill that's a dodge, not a "oh, you missed a skill, here, have a free 40% damage consolation prize".
Also one of my friends was saying that Piercing Blade sometimes actually did more damage than the original skill's damage (i.e. 5k Slasher's Mark, 7k Piercing Blade). While I haven't actually tested this or seen it, if it's true, then this is more than enough reason to fix the stupid feat. Piercing Blade is an overpowered and skill-less feat in its current form, almost as bad as red glyphs. Once PB and red glyphs are fixed then maybe skill can come into play.
I welcome this fix.
And as a final note, to anyone who's trying to defend this feat and saying that HR will be extremely weak after the fix, please learn how to build correctly and time your skills. Piercing Blade is usually around 40% damage in matches for me, and no more than 45% at maximum (ACT logs). This is because I don't waste my skills on people dodging. After the fix, Piercing Blade will still be around 30-40% damage on low defense classes such as HR and TR, and will probably drop down to around 20-30% against tankier classes such as GF/GWF (20-30% compared to live, technically, it's still a 40% bonus proportional to your damage). This is NOT the end of the world for HRs. You still have your healing and your damage is still very very good. You just need to learn to aim properly, not spam needlessly, and not attacking people that are dodging.
Instead of being a flat 40% damage bonus to all damage pre-mitigation (therefore doesn't take mitigation/deflect/dodge into effect), it's now a 40% damage increase to skills that you LAND. And that's perfectly fine and how it should be.
My friend, I believe that more than PB what we have to tone down here is your self-celebration. Reasoning as a BIS means that you are not taking into account the perspective of less geared HR, which actually are the majority of the game and whose words should have much more weight than yours, IMHO.
Second and most important thing, i WILL NEVER believe this is a bug, simply because the DEVS tested it for a long time on the preview and raised it 2 times before reaching the current value, to "balance" it. After 3 months of continuosly testing it, raising it, to get the best value to optimize and balance, now you wanna tell me that nobody noticed it was applied before DR???
Come on, this is unbelievable to anyone. I believe instead that the "bug" was just "discovered" now to mitigate people complaining and to justify the thousandth HR nerf to the community.
And i will not stop repeating, we have tons of broken things in pvp, beginning with glyphs, icy rays, and so forth. Really too many. And what will be the priority? PB, the most tested talent in the last three months that inexplicably TODAY was founded bugged.
Unfortunately in any MMORPG guidelines for devs are not real balancing needs, but people complainings or god-mode monologues saying "I am an end-game one so listen to me my pupils, it is broken". Until this won't change a lot of bugs will appear time by time in perfect coherence to people gripes, that's a matter of fact.
I am afraid to disappoint you but this is a NERF, and for a class whose healing depends on its damage is a CRITICAL NERF.
Even further, in the remote case there are wretch people that dare playing without being BIS.
Second and most important thing, i WILL NEVER believe this is a bug, simply because the DEVS tested it for a long time on the preview and raised it 2 times before reaching the current value, to "balance" it. After 3 months of continuosly testing it, raising it, to get the best value to optimize and balance, now you wanna tell me that nobody noticed it was applied before DR???
Oh good - another one who wants to call GC a liar.
There are many bugs which have gone unnoticed for much longer. The testing on Preview just looked at how much damage was being done, not the fine detail of how it was being applied. And the limited number of people on Preview sometimes limits how well things can be tested.
Just man up and stop whining for goodness sake. PB is broken and WILL be fixed. It's not a nerf. Adapt.
You seriously, seriously CANNOT believe that completely undodgeable damage regardless of whether the initial skill hit or not is WAI. Piercing Blade is undodgeable and unmitigatible damage. It IS broken, you cannot deny that, and although there are things that are quite possibly more broken, it doesn't justify not fixing this. Also, the tooltip of piercing blade:
"Melee attacks do an additional 40% damage as Piercing damage. Piercing damage is Physical damage that cannot be resisted or deflected."
Note the 40% additional damage, meaning 40% damage of your original attack. It should be obvious that piercing damage should be calculating the damage from the original attack /after/ resistance + deflect, and not before, which is how it's acting right now.
Also, regardless of gear or no gear, you should not have attacks that cannot be dodged, that have a 100% proc rate regardless of whether you landed the original skill or not. That is what PB is doing right now and which is why it should be fixed. You might argue that PB being affected by deflect/defense will affect you, but again, if you're fighting a similar geared opponent, unless they're a GWF or GF, then the PB fix will not affect you too much. Let's put it into perspective:
Let's say, as a 13-15k GS HR (Profound Combatant/Royal Guard set, rank 7s, blue/epic artifacts), you have 25% armor penetration. Realistically if you're properly spec'd, you'll have almost 30% even with that gear, but let's just say 25% for now.
I'm taking potshot guesses here since I don't know the actual numbers, but let's assume classes of similar gear to you will have:
CW: 25% DR
DC: 25% DR (pre-buffs)
SW: 25% DR
TR: 25% DR
HR: 25% DR
GWF: 35% DR
GF: 40% DR
I'd actually probably put CW/DC/SW at 30-35% realistically but let's just use those numbers for now, and also assume 20% tenacity. For classes with 25% DR and 20% tenacity, you will be reducing their DR to 0%, so that becomes irrelevant. Tenacity is multiplicative so you have base incoming damage * (1-0.2) = 80% damage (aka 20% damage reduction). Let's say your skill does 1000 damage base before tenacity. After tenacity is applied, that becomes 800 damage on the original attack. As for PB, it now takes 40% of the damage post-mitigation instead of the base damage, therefore 800 * 0.4 = 320 damage.
Live: 800 original attack damage, 400 piercing blade damage
After PB fix: 800 original attack damage, 320 piercing blade damage
Well what do you know, on a class whose DR you can reduce to 0 with arp, it's only a 10-20% damage nerf to piercing blade depending on the tenacity rating. Deflect is also variable on this and will probably further reduce damage by about 5-7%. Overall, this isn't more than a 5-10% damage nerf (40% * 10%).
As for tankier classes, if we just take a base 35% DR as an example, you have 10% DR leftover. Damage in PvP = base damage * (1 + RI % – DR %) * (1- TeR%).
So with 1000 base damage, you get:
1000 * (1 + 0.25 - 0.35) * (1 - 0.2)
= 720 damage on the original attack, which is then 288 damage on piercing blade.
Comparatively:
Live: 720 damage on original attack, 400 on piercing blade
After PB nerf: 720 damage on original attack, 288 on piercing blade
Which is a 28% damage reduction from live, which is a 11.2% overall DPS decrease. After deflect, that's probably closer to 13-15%.
So realistically, the nerf only really applies to classes with high DR and tenacity. If you're pugging, most of the time you'll meet players with 10-15% tenacity and therefore you'll only receive a 10-15% damage decrease on piercing blade, which is a 4-5% damage decrease overall.
To sum it up:
On low DR classes you will receive around a 10% DPS decrease.
On high DR classes you will receive around a 15% DPS decrease.
Of course, that'll be more if you miss your skills, but that's not the fix's problem, that's a skill issue and therefore an entirely different matter. Fix overall sounds pretty fair to me.
Also, regardless of gear levels, I do know my class well enough to make a valid opinion on the matter.
Second and most important thing, i WILL NEVER believe this is a bug, simply because the DEVS tested it for a long time on the preview and raised it 2 times before reaching the current value, to "balance" it. After 3 months of continuosly testing it, raising it, to get the best value to optimize and balance, now you wanna tell me that nobody noticed it was applied before DR???
mod2 Deep Gash ?
and even low geared HR are strong as f... on my 12k gs hr i can easily kill most 15~17k gs ppl
The devs weren't the ones testing on preview. Players were. And for players, lots of other issues were more important to look into. And people were testing different builds and playstyles, which means details may have been missed; the particulars of this HR build also probably appeared less deadly, as most people hadn't fully refined every detail of it yet.
Most of focus was actually was on WM. It has dozens of pages of whining about it - mods deleted most of them but still there is a lot to remain. WM was really nerfed to almost useless or impossible state. It is hardly ever at 6 stacks. Especially in pvp. Off course those who "play HR in theory" will still say opposite and will be whining about it still.
To sum it up:
On low DR classes you will receive around a 10% DPS decrease.
On high DR classes you will receive around a 15% DPS decrease.
side of this = it will be around 1-2% loss of healing on HRs since now deflected and dodges attacks wont get PB damage. Should not be a bigger then that. I do expect nerfbabies cry about WM next anyway.
Lol find irony in my sentance and deal with it .Guess i should have put big brackets on it. Ice rays don't require any skill btw. Same as Piecing proc. Deal with it.
you do realize you can see ice rays comming from a mile away, and thus if it was dodgeable it would be the most useless skill in the game, comperable to CW at will Storm Pillar, piercing blade is instant damage which drastically increases your dps on people which probably should be addressed, and dont try to act smart with me because your the one who will look like a fool defending something hypocritical. assailiant = resistable >>> piercing blade = resistable
you cant just compare a feat to an encounter and expect me or anyone else to actually take you seriously *facepalm*
you best be comparing a feat to another feat, assailiant which was posted above had similar autoprocs to piercing blade, and the devs realized it was a mistake and corrected it, its only fair that piercing blade be the same, sorrry that your op damage is not fair for the rest of the players
epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
For this post I agree 100% that pb needs to go... while my main is a hr I know this is not ballance in pvp and needs to be fixed...
for this fix you must raise hrs off hand damage or removeing pb will be unfair. No attack even 40% should not avoid an opponets dr befor their ri takes effect its unfair.
Devs pb needs to go but in its place hr off hand blades need the base damage of bows in its place for real ballance...
Fix pb to take effect of 100% of equiped bow damage instead thats ballance
Yep simple fix remove pierceing blades and replace it with say 20%40%60%80%100% bow damage for off hands.
PB is being fixed, not deleted. There's a patch coming which will make it proc off damage that has already been affected by DR as was originally intended. No damage from the triggering power (dodged, deflected, defended. blocked, whatever) = no damage from PB. No more piercing through damage immunity either.
PB is being fixed, not deleted. There's a patch coming which will make it proc off damage that has already been affected by DR as was originally intended. No damage from the triggering power (dodged, deflected, defended. blocked, whatever) = no damage from PB. No more piercing through damage immunity either.
Rejoice.
Yep im glad about true ballance like the fact sws op tt has been fixed now we still need to ballance out cws dps over other classes.
Paingiver should be equal contest for any class simmilar gs + power + ri + ability stat that improves dmg.
you should have stopped right there really. smart does not look like your way sorry. What is the activation time of IR "from long away" ? Does activation time changes it you target it on enemy close or far? it matters that CW have the biggest range now?
And do you aware that PB has to trigger on encounter or at will? not as just your desire? So you compare time of activation of encounters ,not feet, with PB bonus to "nearly impossible to dodge " CW encounter? Same CW that have longest range in game while HR need to get in damage area of CW to activate encounters and still have huge proc from assailant?
Have you accully read what GS sad? or come just to put your "valuable" opinion about HRs nerf?
And btw why you so much defending power that GS stated as nearly impossible to dodge if let me quote you " I kill 2/3 without any problems" ?
PS. so really just stop saying that smart is not your way. Really. PB is being fix. Not nerfed as you desired. You were really one on not many CWs that was crybaby on preview for HR changes - I don't remember any power that you have not cried about yet.
Comments
While I can agree with ur other points to an extend, what do u do these days when premade vs premade and GFs/CWs/other HRS using these glyphs? Do u stand afk in spawn? Or have u just stopped pvp?
If its the latter, then ur a hypocrite, because u dont take part in actually gameplay but still judging people who do. If its the former, ur honor may shine, but ur loosing the game for ur team.
I tested without and with glyphs, and not using them means sure defeat against any very good HR who uses them and u dont.
Are they stupid OP? Yes. And 1000 times more than PB. You stated that urself: the dmg output will be only marginal lower with the nerf of PB, and will depend more on the targets immunity frames and resistances, favoring some classes and some not (poor CWs...).
But as we will see, all the crybabies will not stop even with the nerf because HRs will still shred people in seconds, because of glyphs and their fast attack speed. The PB nerf will accomplish NOTHING in the current meta. Mark my words.
Also, red glyphs will be getting fixed in the future, possibly around the time piercing gets fixed, so while you do have a valid point about PB being overshadowed by glyphs, when both are toned down things should be a BIT better.
Regardless of red glyphs or not, piercing blade should get fixed. Both PB and red glyphs are cheese mechanics and should not have been introduced into the game the way they are now.
In practice this will have little effect on damage against squishier targets (and may actually BOOST DPS in PvE due to stacking debuffs) and a moderate effect against tankier targets. The main change is having to actually HIT targets to damage them, which is a Good Thing.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
If I want easy-mode gameplay I take my CW for a spin.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
This dude is trashing CWs and HRs since the classes appeared.
Some people have a pathological fear of certain classes/archetypes. There are some guys here that hate GWFs and it shines through all their posts, other hate HRs, and lots and lots seem to hate CWs. GFs were OP for not enough yet to get to hated stage, but I think in time we'll come to that.
Basically nobody hates DCs though and you can see why.
They're cute&cuddly and cannot hurt you.
So there you go, class hate mystery solved
slurp slurp GF tears anyone?
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
maybe you hate your parents then?
I play mostly CW/HR but do GG daily with GWF, DC and now a lowby CW. Each of these chars I kept at 10K GS-ish. I didn't slot enchants asides from some free Rank 5 that I got for reaching 60 lol and some forthelulz experimenting with a perfect bile GWF yesterday.
I find each of these chars fun. I "hate" CWs when I am on my GWF and HR, I hate HRs when I'm on my GWF, I hate GFs when on my CW.
None of the "hate" being serious.
When my leadership SW, TR and GF clones get to 60, I intend to gear them up in Grim armor and play GG with them as well.
In my opinion playing at least 2 classes at the highest potential you're able to is a great start to get rid of this pathological "antiXclass" feelings. You will come to understand each class has weaknesses and strengths, and still fun to play if you choose to make it fun.
Or you can choose to hate and come to forums and demand nerfs on any class but yours, lol.
+1. Somebody here gets it!
Learn to laugh. It helps make life easier.
GWF should nore really complain about were they are now. After mod 2 and 3.
And those GWF who adopted are still good in pvp. Ill return advice - adopt and stop crying.
Stop being so serious dude. HRs are fixed - learn to read right stuff first before perma whine baby.
I wont argue with you about "Observe, learn, adapt". But to note - this is all that HRs do constantly. each module 2-3 times since all crybabies who can not adapt open milion of such thread to cry who they now to press 2 buttons.
As do I. HR is my main. Not as close as good as ralexinor but this fix is correct and it should be so. There will be more skill now for HR. That is all. And i do hope that after this devs will focus on other "practically impossible" to dodge things.
Thoose +5% in ACL are for sure comming from broken stuff
Its not that pve is hard, but it becomes increasingly boring by this.
In pvp, EVERY mmo has classes that are better then others, but for some reason , this game, every other class thinks theirs should be that one , instead of just rolling another class, nor have I seen a game bend so far over backwards to appease this crowd.
Frankly, Balance was about 100% closer in mod 3, also, every time there is a game increase of power, it will impact this balance.
YOU can never have 100% balance in this game, nor any other mmo, Ive never seen it in 20 years.
BUT there is things you can do to eliminate some of the need for balance.. 5 on 5 is the worst type of pvp game, if they increase it to ten vs ten in matching, this would help a little with the balance, as #s increase , need for BiS type builds decrease.. The funnest times Ive had in other games pvp were massive open world battles.. 100 vs 100 types.
not saying it has to be that massive, but it really does create a better environment in the end.
My friend, I believe that more than PB what we have to tone down here is your self-celebration. Reasoning as a BIS means that you are not taking into account the perspective of less geared HR, which actually are the majority of the game and whose words should have much more weight than yours, IMHO.
Second and most important thing, i WILL NEVER believe this is a bug, simply because the DEVS tested it for a long time on the preview and raised it 2 times before reaching the current value, to "balance" it. After 3 months of continuosly testing it, raising it, to get the best value to optimize and balance, now you wanna tell me that nobody noticed it was applied before DR???
Come on, this is unbelievable to anyone. I believe instead that the "bug" was just "discovered" now to mitigate people complaining and to justify the thousandth HR nerf to the community.
And i will not stop repeating, we have tons of broken things in pvp, beginning with glyphs, icy rays, and so forth. Really too many. And what will be the priority? PB, the most tested talent in the last three months that inexplicably TODAY was founded bugged.
Unfortunately in any MMORPG guidelines for devs are not real balancing needs, but people complainings or god-mode monologues saying "I am an end-game one so listen to me my pupils, it is broken". Until this won't change a lot of bugs will appear time by time in perfect coherence to people gripes, that's a matter of fact.
I am afraid to disappoint you but this is a NERF, and for a class whose healing depends on its damage is a CRITICAL NERF.
Even further, in the remote case there are wretch people that dare playing without being BIS.
There are many bugs which have gone unnoticed for much longer. The testing on Preview just looked at how much damage was being done, not the fine detail of how it was being applied. And the limited number of people on Preview sometimes limits how well things can be tested.
Just man up and stop whining for goodness sake. PB is broken and WILL be fixed. It's not a nerf. Adapt.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
"Melee attacks do an additional 40% damage as Piercing damage. Piercing damage is Physical damage that cannot be resisted or deflected."
Note the 40% additional damage, meaning 40% damage of your original attack. It should be obvious that piercing damage should be calculating the damage from the original attack /after/ resistance + deflect, and not before, which is how it's acting right now.
Also, regardless of gear or no gear, you should not have attacks that cannot be dodged, that have a 100% proc rate regardless of whether you landed the original skill or not. That is what PB is doing right now and which is why it should be fixed. You might argue that PB being affected by deflect/defense will affect you, but again, if you're fighting a similar geared opponent, unless they're a GWF or GF, then the PB fix will not affect you too much. Let's put it into perspective:
Let's say, as a 13-15k GS HR (Profound Combatant/Royal Guard set, rank 7s, blue/epic artifacts), you have 25% armor penetration. Realistically if you're properly spec'd, you'll have almost 30% even with that gear, but let's just say 25% for now.
I'm taking potshot guesses here since I don't know the actual numbers, but let's assume classes of similar gear to you will have:
CW: 25% DR
DC: 25% DR (pre-buffs)
SW: 25% DR
TR: 25% DR
HR: 25% DR
GWF: 35% DR
GF: 40% DR
I'd actually probably put CW/DC/SW at 30-35% realistically but let's just use those numbers for now, and also assume 20% tenacity. For classes with 25% DR and 20% tenacity, you will be reducing their DR to 0%, so that becomes irrelevant. Tenacity is multiplicative so you have base incoming damage * (1-0.2) = 80% damage (aka 20% damage reduction). Let's say your skill does 1000 damage base before tenacity. After tenacity is applied, that becomes 800 damage on the original attack. As for PB, it now takes 40% of the damage post-mitigation instead of the base damage, therefore 800 * 0.4 = 320 damage.
Live: 800 original attack damage, 400 piercing blade damage
After PB fix: 800 original attack damage, 320 piercing blade damage
Well what do you know, on a class whose DR you can reduce to 0 with arp, it's only a 10-20% damage nerf to piercing blade depending on the tenacity rating. Deflect is also variable on this and will probably further reduce damage by about 5-7%. Overall, this isn't more than a 5-10% damage nerf (40% * 10%).
As for tankier classes, if we just take a base 35% DR as an example, you have 10% DR leftover. Damage in PvP = base damage * (1 + RI % – DR %) * (1- TeR%).
So with 1000 base damage, you get:
1000 * (1 + 0.25 - 0.35) * (1 - 0.2)
= 720 damage on the original attack, which is then 288 damage on piercing blade.
Comparatively:
Live: 720 damage on original attack, 400 on piercing blade
After PB nerf: 720 damage on original attack, 288 on piercing blade
Which is a 28% damage reduction from live, which is a 11.2% overall DPS decrease. After deflect, that's probably closer to 13-15%.
So realistically, the nerf only really applies to classes with high DR and tenacity. If you're pugging, most of the time you'll meet players with 10-15% tenacity and therefore you'll only receive a 10-15% damage decrease on piercing blade, which is a 4-5% damage decrease overall.
To sum it up:
On low DR classes you will receive around a 10% DPS decrease.
On high DR classes you will receive around a 15% DPS decrease.
Of course, that'll be more if you miss your skills, but that's not the fix's problem, that's a skill issue and therefore an entirely different matter. Fix overall sounds pretty fair to me.
Also, regardless of gear levels, I do know my class well enough to make a valid opinion on the matter.
mod2 Deep Gash ?
and even low geared HR are strong as f... on my 12k gs hr i can easily kill most 15~17k gs ppl
Most of focus was actually was on WM. It has dozens of pages of whining about it - mods deleted most of them but still there is a lot to remain. WM was really nerfed to almost useless or impossible state. It is hardly ever at 6 stacks. Especially in pvp. Off course those who "play HR in theory" will still say opposite and will be whining about it still.
side of this = it will be around 1-2% loss of healing on HRs since now deflected and dodges attacks wont get PB damage. Should not be a bigger then that. I do expect nerfbabies cry about WM next anyway.
HTH
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
You have nothing to worry about.
No good HR uses it in high level PvP.
Also that combo puts the HR at HUGE disadvantage, as it remains without Boar or Marauders.
Not to mention that if you're actually as tanky as you should be in PvP, this combo should not present much of a challenge after PB fixes.
you do realize you can see ice rays comming from a mile away, and thus if it was dodgeable it would be the most useless skill in the game, comperable to CW at will Storm Pillar, piercing blade is instant damage which drastically increases your dps on people which probably should be addressed, and dont try to act smart with me because your the one who will look like a fool defending something hypocritical. assailiant = resistable >>> piercing blade = resistable
you cant just compare a feat to an encounter and expect me or anyone else to actually take you seriously *facepalm*
you best be comparing a feat to another feat, assailiant which was posted above had similar autoprocs to piercing blade, and the devs realized it was a mistake and corrected it, its only fair that piercing blade be the same, sorrry that your op damage is not fair for the rest of the players
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
for this fix you must raise hrs off hand damage or removeing pb will be unfair. No attack even 40% should not avoid an opponets dr befor their ri takes effect its unfair.
Devs pb needs to go but in its place hr off hand blades need the base damage of bows in its place for real ballance...
Fix pb to take effect of 100% of equiped bow damage instead thats ballance
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
if yes, they want to do something about it in the coming weeks?
| Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
< Guild: Pugno Fiammante >
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Rejoice.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Paingiver should be equal contest for any class simmilar gs + power + ri + ability stat that improves dmg.
Ballance is more fun in a mmorpg
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
you should have stopped right there really. smart does not look like your way sorry. What is the activation time of IR "from long away" ? Does activation time changes it you target it on enemy close or far? it matters that CW have the biggest range now?
And do you aware that PB has to trigger on encounter or at will? not as just your desire? So you compare time of activation of encounters ,not feet, with PB bonus to "nearly impossible to dodge " CW encounter? Same CW that have longest range in game while HR need to get in damage area of CW to activate encounters and still have huge proc from assailant?
Have you accully read what GS sad? or come just to put your "valuable" opinion about HRs nerf?
And btw why you so much defending power that GS stated as nearly impossible to dodge if let me quote you " I kill 2/3 without any problems" ?
PS. so really just stop saying that smart is not your way. Really. PB is being fix. Not nerfed as you desired. You were really one on not many CWs that was crybaby on preview for HR changes - I don't remember any power that you have not cried about yet.