Yeah... 1 second after they being frozen, they recover because CoI causes too much damage.
At which point you keep refreshing chill stacks and/or use Steal Time (Which you can call Time Stop and enjoy the RP rationale. ). At that point, they should be dead or close enough that one teleport away and chilling cloud should do it.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
To be fair, nothing really generates AP as much as EF on Tab when used on a large mob, sucking in the maximum number of opponents each time (5?). Two of those and you ought to have a full bar. If I'm in a situation which demands daily after daily then I do slot this, but it always feels like it's at the expense of a more rounded loadout. Dailies are nice, but I often have sudden storm critting for over 15k and shard or time stop ( ) is almost as effective as oppressive force.
Most of the time your encounters should be enough and the dailies only really become absolutely necessary in at crucial moments in boss fights. The way I play, that's most of the time
If you fire off CoI first by the way, it's IT that does the freezing. Leave them alone and its poor damage becomes an advantage. They'll stay frozen for ages. Try it while soloing. I often sit and stare at a frozen mob while watching my other encounters recharge
Tele Savalas, Dwarf Thaumaturge CW
Putting the Buff into Debuff since 2013 \o/ (Does that even make sense)?
Entangling force is not nearly as useful as AoE control/damage skills for the majority of content. It can be useful for particularly difficult single enemies who aren't immune to it, but there are other ways to generate AP quickly that are more helpful to your group.
Entangling force in a group of adds is more beneficial than any other spell in a group, unless its a dps race. This is from the viewpoint of a GWF, GF and CW (for sudden storm). But theres no need to have more than 1 wizard using it on mastery
Only other thing i could think of that is more useful would be chill strke for high vizier debuffs, but you have other spells for that.
Entangling force in a group of adds is more beneficial than any other spell in a group, unless its a dps race. This is from the viewpoint of a GWF, GF and CW (for sudden storm). But theres no need to have more than 1 wizard using it on mastery
Only other thing i could think of that is more useful would be chill strke for high vizier debuffs, but you have other spells for that.
Interesting, thanks. That has in general not been my experience with any of my characters. Using the Champion Mage set with CoI on tab combined with IT usually means lots of wonderfully debuffing clouds and frozen enemies for the GWF, GF, TR, and DC to smash through.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
I kept EF when I respect but I rarely slot it in dungeons these days. I usually go with CoI, SotEA, IT, and Steal Time, unless I'm doing single target work, or it's a push situation needing Shield and Repell. It may be the way that I'm feated, but throwing down a single IT onto a large enough mob that has no chill stacks can give me as much AP as EF on tab. Combined with ST and SotEA, I don't usually have problems with getting another Daily.
So many mobs now, elite or not, have immunity to EF's CC effect that if you fire at a group and it doesn't hang something, you've just slotted a single target minor damage spell. For my GF, I'd have to say that ST is the single most useful encounter. What, everything standing still and not moving? Nice. The worst by far is Oppressive Force. Whatever the reason you like it or not, it tosses mobs all over the place and wipes all my nice Marks. Very annoying.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
[...] The worst by far is Oppressive Force. Whatever the reason you like it or not, it tosses mobs all over the place and wipes all my nice Marks. Very annoying.
Oppressive Force has no target limit, is doing a lot of damage and also does CC. Use Entangling Force (on Tab) after you use Oppressive Force, to draw them back together (same after usage of Shard of the Endless Avalanche). That only for a short amount of time, spreads the MOBs around a bit.
Most of the times, I run with a fixed group of another CW, a GF, a DC and whoever wants to join us. The other CW (Thaumaturge, for this setup I use my Renegade), does Arcane Singularity first, we both precast Shard of the Endless Avalanche, use Steal Time and after the MOBs are back on ground we send in the Shard, I use Oppressive Force, directly followed by an Entangling Force and after that Sudden Storm. With that we burn through the trash pulls like nothing and the melee's love it, because the adds are either grouped in front of them or dead.
Oppressive force is in my opinion the best CC hands down, as well as aoe damage. you can pull 3 packs at a time and survive due to its daze effect. great for stopping large red spamming attacks attacking melee too.
Oppressive force is in my opinion the best CC hands down, as well as aoe damage. you can pull 3 packs at a time and survive due to its daze effect. great for stopping large red spamming attacks attacking melee too.
Yea, I love when someone says something like "Steal time is awesome, but OppFor sucks" When OppFor is basically steal time turbo charged. More damage, more stun, more baddies hit, and near instant effects without any charge up time.
Why this power seems so unpopular is beyond me. Its one of the more overpowered wizzie powers out there.
Thank you! I get so sick of being in parties with other CW's that spam Sing when OppForce would be better. The only time I use Sing is to group up a mob when it gets too spread out or when pushing; otherwise OppForce is win.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
No more talk about OF, please. I don't want to see it hit max 5 targets in the next patch...
Oppressive Force has no target limit, is doing a lot of damage and also does CC. Use Entangling Force (on Tab) after you use Oppressive Force, to draw them back together (same after usage of Shard of the Endless Avalanche). That only for a short amount of time, spreads the MOBs around a bit.
...QUOTE]
Oh I understand the theory and the way the rotation is supposed to work. And in very tight corridors, it often really doesn't matter which CC is used because everything just bounces off the wall. Other than for a few seconds I can't actually see anything. As I said, for whatever reason a CW might love it, for my GF things don't end up "grouped in front of me or dead," they end up scattered all over the place. Oppressive Force drastically lowers my GF's dps and makes it much harder to control agro. I know that on the forums here and when we are talking about theory, nothing ever goes wrong. But for the vast majority of the Zone CWs I run with who use Oppressive Force, it's more a hassle than it's worth.
I've never ran with a CW in say 50 MCs or so using Oppressive Force who can show me the run you describe above. I'm not saying it leads to wipes per say, it's just not an optimal situation the number of times a CW scatters the mob I had neatly gathered in front of me for all my AOE encounters and at-wills, and leaves me darting to mark everything one at a time again. The more open the area the worse it usually is, and if the ground is open enough it's as bad as Ice Storm.
Oh I understand the theory and the way the rotation is supposed to work. And in very tight corridors, it often really doesn't matter which CC is used because everything just bounces off the wall. Other than for a few seconds I can't actually see anything. As I said, for whatever reason a CW might love it, for my GF things don't end up "grouped in front of me or dead," they end up scattered all over the place. Oppressive Force drastically lowers my GF's dps and makes it much harder to control agro. I know that on the forums here and when we are talking about theory, nothing ever goes wrong. But for the vast majority of the Zone CWs I run with who use Oppressive Force, it's more a hassle than it's worth.
I've never ran with a CW in say 50 MCs or so using Oppressive Force who can show me the run you describe above. I'm not saying it leads to wipes per say, it's just not an optimal situation the number of times a CW scatters the mob I had neatly gathered in front of me for all my AOE encounters and at-wills, and leaves me darting to mark everything one at a time again. The more open the area the worse it usually is, and if the ground is open enough it's as bad as Ice Storm.
YMMV.
Doesn't it push mobs back only a negligibly little bit? I didn't know that's so much trouble to GF.
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uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
Oh I understand the theory and the way the rotation is supposed to work. And in very tight corridors, it often really doesn't matter which CC is used because everything just bounces off the wall.
Oppressive Force drastically lowers my GF's dps and makes it much harder to control agro. I know that on the forums here and when we are talking about theory, nothing ever goes wrong. But for the vast majority of the Zone CWs I run with who use Oppressive Force, it's more a hassle than it's worth.
As I was saying, I run with a GF--a very good friend of mine--, and yes, we had that problem in the beginning as well. It needs team exercise to get the required routine & coordination, but it can work. The GF is shortly behind us two CW's in regards to damage output. Additionally: we use voice comm's and announce AS as well as OF in advance, so that the other team member's knows what's going to come.
Doesn't it push mobs back only a negligibly little bit? I didn't know that's so much trouble to GF.
Alone, it pushes the majority of the mob outside the cone effect of Enforced Threat, Frontline Surge, and Threatening Rush. That's in open enough areas. Tight hallways, everything's near you but now can be spread out in front and behind (with your Cleric).
.. As I was saying, I run with a GF--a very good friend of mine--, and yes, we had that problem in the beginning as well. It needs team exercise to get the required routine & coordination, but it can work. The GF is shortly behind us two CW's in regards to damage output. Additionally: we use voice comm's and announce AS as well as OF in advance, so that the other team member's knows what's going to come.
....
As I said, ymmv. I go with zone groups, most of whom have to type. Though even announcing OF itself wouldn't counter the problems with marks and threat production. Or the Totem coming out of OF and aggroing the Cleric.
Does chilling clouds 3rd strike apply chill to all enemies hit or just the one you are targetting? If it applies to all 5 then I would say it could be worthwhile, I would stick to storm pillar to build AP if not.
I've just tried this on the target dummies and it does indeed add chill to everything hit. The time between consecutive third strikes is short enough to keep adding chill too - got all 3 dummies in the side room up to 6 stacks.
Tele Savalas, Dwarf Thaumaturge CW
Putting the Buff into Debuff since 2013 \o/ (Does that even make sense)?
As I said, ymmv. I go with zone groups, most of whom have to type. Though even announcing OF itself wouldn't counter the problems with marks and threat production. Or the Totem coming out of OF and aggroing the Cleric.
Dont know what you are doing wrong, but playing my GF mostly since feywild (more than CW) its the reason why i prefer OF. My marks will not fall off anything because they are dazed, and i can just cleave away.
As soon as a I see OF used i know I and the cleric can relax for a bit.
Oppressive Force drastically lowers my GF's dps and makes it much harder to control agro. I know that on the forums here and when we are talking about theory, nothing ever goes wrong. But for the vast majority of the Zone CWs I run with who use Oppressive Force, it's more a hassle than it's worth.
Your job as a tank is not DPS. How close can you get to a good CW in a dungeon run? I usually outdps GFs by 200-300%, sometimes even more. Same goes for GWFs.
So why would I really gimp my job (dishing damage and CC) so you can have the mobs nicely in front of you to stab them efficiently?
Now, I understand dungeon design is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> atm and melees do lame damage in dungeons (which should be fixed real fast so we can have balance), but it's not my fault. For as long as we live in the current situation, CWs are your primary damage dealers and they should optimize their rotation to maximize said damage. OF is an essential part of this all, and to trade this damage just so the tank can deal a bit more seems extremely inefficient to me. Not to mention that ideally mobs would aggro even dazed on their targets so if your party stays together you will have nice pockets of mobs to AoE.
Your job as a tank is not DPS. How close can you get to a good CW in a dungeon run? I usually outdps GFs by 200-300%, sometimes even more. Same goes for GWFs.
So why would I really gimp my job (dishing damage and CC) so you can have the mobs nicely in front of you to stab them efficiently?
Now, I understand dungeon design is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> atm and melees do lame damage in dungeons (which should be fixed real fast so we can have balance), but it's not my fault. For as long as we live in the current situation, CWs are your primary damage dealers and they should optimize their rotation to maximize said damage. OF is an essential part of this all, and to trade this damage just so the tank can deal a bit more seems extremely inefficient to me. Not to mention that ideally mobs would aggro even dazed on their targets so if your party stays together you will have nice pockets of mobs to AoE.
As a GF, OF is actually better for me because the marks will not remove. but i dont agree that you should screw up other people's fun just so you can do more damage. If Ice-storm had no target limit I would probably leave if i was in a group with a CW spamming it.
Your job as a tank is not DPS. How close can you get to a good CW in a dungeon run? I usually outdps GFs by 200-300%, sometimes even more. Same goes for GWFs.
A fully-geared out Conqueror-specced GF can manage to fulfill the role of a tank as well as put out excellent DPS without compromising their tanking ability. In point of fact, that can often help it by holding additional aggro through damage. They often need to do so because there are caps on how many enemies an AoE can effect and running a massive monster train takes some work.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
As a GF, OF is actually better for me because the marks will not remove. but i dont agree that you should screw up other people's fun just so you can do more damage. If Ice-storm had no target limit I would probably leave if i was in a group with a CW spamming it.
Well, it's about efficiency. If you play with friends and stuff things change and you are trying to make everybody happy. In a pug however my position is neutral unless something unusual happens, but I'm usually way to lazy to try and maximize damage, so my tanks are safe )
BTW I found that you can use Ice Storm quite nicely against a wall and so on, but it's too much hassle. It's also fun at ToS first boss when if placed properly you can wipe the adds when they spawn But these are just particular cases.
Omg this Steal Time vs Lawful Good problem made my day!
How about calling it Slow Time? Does that sound pleasing enough? Or good boys only do it fast?
Or just go with my suggestion for calling it Time Stop - it's even a 9th level spell (or it was at one point, no idea what the state of the PnP game is at the moment)!
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Or just go with my suggestion for calling it Time Stop - it's even a 9th level spell (or it was at one point, no idea what the state of the PnP game is at the moment)!
You think it would be easy, right. I made the suggestion to the OP some months ago to consider the spell to be "Sleep"
Thank you for the suggestion. However, I cannot simply imagine an already defined thing as another different thing in a role playing game. Personally, I think imagining already defined things as different things isn't role playing.
Some people just insist on being more difficult then needed.
You think it would be easy, right. I made the suggestion to the OP some months ago to consider the spell to be "Sleep"
He was having none of it.
Some people just insist on being more difficult then needed.
I wish i'd be so stubborn to follow my ideals. :cool: OP made a problem out of nothing, and honestly - his August thread has gathered 77 pages of total flood!
I still giggle when i remember it.
Comments
At which point you keep refreshing chill stacks and/or use Steal Time (Which you can call Time Stop and enjoy the RP rationale.
Most of the time your encounters should be enough and the dailies only really become absolutely necessary in at crucial moments in boss fights. The way I play, that's most of the time
If you fire off CoI first by the way, it's IT that does the freezing. Leave them alone and its poor damage becomes an advantage. They'll stay frozen for ages. Try it while soloing. I often sit and stare at a frozen mob while watching my other encounters recharge
you should be fine using conduit of ice - mastery. sudden storm (or shield), icy terrain, shard of endless avalanche.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Entangling force in a group of adds is more beneficial than any other spell in a group, unless its a dps race. This is from the viewpoint of a GWF, GF and CW (for sudden storm). But theres no need to have more than 1 wizard using it on mastery
Only other thing i could think of that is more useful would be chill strke for high vizier debuffs, but you have other spells for that.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
My pleasure, enjoy!
Interesting, thanks. That has in general not been my experience with any of my characters. Using the Champion Mage set with CoI on tab combined with IT usually means lots of wonderfully debuffing clouds and frozen enemies for the GWF, GF, TR, and DC to smash through.
So many mobs now, elite or not, have immunity to EF's CC effect that if you fire at a group and it doesn't hang something, you've just slotted a single target minor damage spell. For my GF, I'd have to say that ST is the single most useful encounter. What, everything standing still and not moving? Nice. The worst by far is Oppressive Force. Whatever the reason you like it or not, it tosses mobs all over the place and wipes all my nice Marks. Very annoying.
Most of the times, I run with a fixed group of another CW, a GF, a DC and whoever wants to join us. The other CW (Thaumaturge, for this setup I use my Renegade), does Arcane Singularity first, we both precast Shard of the Endless Avalanche, use Steal Time and after the MOBs are back on ground we send in the Shard, I use Oppressive Force, directly followed by an Entangling Force and after that Sudden Storm. With that we burn through the trash pulls like nothing and the melee's love it, because the adds are either grouped in front of them or dead.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Yea, I love when someone says something like "Steal time is awesome, but OppFor sucks" When OppFor is basically steal time turbo charged. More damage, more stun, more baddies hit, and near instant effects without any charge up time.
Why this power seems so unpopular is beyond me. Its one of the more overpowered wizzie powers out there.
As I was saying, I run with a GF--a very good friend of mine--, and yes, we had that problem in the beginning as well. It needs team exercise to get the required routine & coordination, but it can work. The GF is shortly behind us two CW's in regards to damage output. Additionally: we use voice comm's and announce AS as well as OF in advance, so that the other team member's knows what's going to come.
If you're interested, we can try to find a time to do a MC run together, just PM me.
No, not by far. Ice Storm really scatters the MOBs around. Oppressive Force pushes them a few feet outwards.
Alone, it pushes the majority of the mob outside the cone effect of Enforced Threat, Frontline Surge, and Threatening Rush. That's in open enough areas. Tight hallways, everything's near you but now can be spread out in front and behind (with your Cleric).
As I said, ymmv. I go with zone groups, most of whom have to type. Though even announcing OF itself wouldn't counter the problems with marks and threat production. Or the Totem coming out of OF and aggroing the Cleric.
I've just tried this on the target dummies and it does indeed add chill to everything hit. The time between consecutive third strikes is short enough to keep adding chill too - got all 3 dummies in the side room up to 6 stacks.
Dont know what you are doing wrong, but playing my GF mostly since feywild (more than CW) its the reason why i prefer OF. My marks will not fall off anything because they are dazed, and i can just cleave away.
As soon as a I see OF used i know I and the cleric can relax for a bit.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Your job as a tank is not DPS. How close can you get to a good CW in a dungeon run? I usually outdps GFs by 200-300%, sometimes even more. Same goes for GWFs.
So why would I really gimp my job (dishing damage and CC) so you can have the mobs nicely in front of you to stab them efficiently?
Now, I understand dungeon design is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> atm and melees do lame damage in dungeons (which should be fixed real fast so we can have balance), but it's not my fault. For as long as we live in the current situation, CWs are your primary damage dealers and they should optimize their rotation to maximize said damage. OF is an essential part of this all, and to trade this damage just so the tank can deal a bit more seems extremely inefficient to me. Not to mention that ideally mobs would aggro even dazed on their targets so if your party stays together you will have nice pockets of mobs to AoE.
As a GF, OF is actually better for me because the marks will not remove. but i dont agree that you should screw up other people's fun just so you can do more damage. If Ice-storm had no target limit I would probably leave if i was in a group with a CW spamming it.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
A fully-geared out Conqueror-specced GF can manage to fulfill the role of a tank as well as put out excellent DPS without compromising their tanking ability. In point of fact, that can often help it by holding additional aggro through damage. They often need to do so because there are caps on how many enemies an AoE can effect and running a massive monster train takes some work.
Well, it's about efficiency. If you play with friends and stuff things change and you are trying to make everybody happy. In a pug however my position is neutral unless something unusual happens, but I'm usually way to lazy to try and maximize damage, so my tanks are safe
BTW I found that you can use Ice Storm quite nicely against a wall and so on, but it's too much hassle. It's also fun at ToS first boss when if placed properly you can wipe the adds when they spawn
How about calling it Slow Time? Does that sound pleasing enough? Or good boys only do it fast?
Or just go with my suggestion for calling it Time Stop - it's even a 9th level spell (or it was at one point, no idea what the state of the PnP game is at the moment)!
You think it would be easy, right. I made the suggestion to the OP some months ago to consider the spell to be "Sleep"
He was having none of it.
Some people just insist on being more difficult then needed.
I still giggle when i remember it.